Re: [android] Answer calll problems

2008-11-05 Thread Paul Jimenez
Christophe Badoit wrote:
 Denis Galvão a écrit :
 Talked to hackbod on the #android freenode room.

 Im not sure if it is official, but this is what he told me yesterday.

 Thank you for the source.

 This is indeed bad news if all android apps have to be patched to be
 usable on the FR :-(

They don't; there's got to be several ways around this, from USB or BT
keyboards to softkeys that run at a layer android doesn't know about to
faking multiple buttons from the two available ones based on chording
and press duration.


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Re: Android open sourced

2008-10-23 Thread Paul Jimenez
Nishit Dave wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Kishore [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Since i got my neo rather recently, i have only tried 4.4.1. Is 4.3 still
 better choice? A couple of days ago i lost my daily use phone (motoming
 and so i now need to use the FR as my daily phone.


 Join the club.

FWIW, I've been running 4.3 as my only cellphone for several weeks now. 
I've got the bug #1024 re-registration problem, which is annoying, but I
can still make and receive calls.  I've only gotten into a really funky
state once or twice - due, I think, to switching between booting 4.3 and
other distros (FSO).  It's been pretty stable since I ran out of time to
mess with it :)


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Re: VARTA Digital USB Charger

2008-10-15 Thread Paul Jimenez
Looks similar to the DIYer mintyboost' project:

Radek Bartoň wrote:
 Hello list.

 I've just read an article about new VARTA Digital USB Charger
 so I'm sharing it with you.

 For our purposes it's really great that it can charge our precious Neo from 
 inserted AA or AAA accumulators, power point or car socket :-).

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Re: RFC: delete page USB

2008-08-30 Thread Paul Jimenez
Don't delete it; someone will recreate it.  Make it a redirect to the 
Category:USB page.

Fredrik Wendt wrote:
 lör 2008-08-30 klockan 00:29 -0700 skrev Michael Shiloh:

 My comment: Just go ahead! :)

 / Fredrik

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-13 Thread Paul Jimenez

Alex Oberhauser wrote:
 Bumbl wrote:
 It would be more important to not run everything as root I think

 This will be also a main focus. When we receive the Freerunners, we will see
 how fast we can change this bad state.


Personally, I'd be more interested in an encrypted filesystem so that I 
can worry less about snoopy people getting access to my personal data if 
I lose my phone or it's stolen.  How many 'main focuses' are you allowed 
? :)

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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Paul Jimenez

steve wrote:

Mass Pro is slated to start between may9 and may 16. Steve's rule say add a
week. Then you got test, then you shipping.

On Monday ( or maybe Sunday night for my EU friends ) I will do an update.


Could you also include status of debug boards?  Will they go on sale at 
the same time as the phones?
Will there be debug-board 10-packs? (I don't expect so, but it's 
possible!)  If I'm getting a phone via a group order, is there any 
advantage to getting a debug board via the same order, or should I just 
order it on my own?

Answers can wait until your update, bu I wanted to get the questions out 
there.  Thanks again for keeping us so well informed!


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Re: Stylus Recommendation

2008-05-05 Thread Paul Jimenez

Ponoko has acrylic in 1/8 and some 1/4 thicknesses that you can
get laser-cut for fairly reasonable prices - IIRC, they just opened
a bay-area cut/ship center to reduce shipping in the US (they're originally
from New Zealand!).  Looks like a typical project from 7x7x1/8 acrylic
is around $10-$20. That's potentially several stylus-racks.


On Monday, May 5, 2008, steve writes:
I looked at emachines a few years back for doing some custom car parts. The
CAD tool was a bit funky. The price was not hobby  friendly as you note. 
My friend owned a machine shop so he just CNCed the thing since he wanted it
too. I never tried a plastic part with emachine, but its all about the set
up cost and the tool you use. material is immaterial ( or should be)
You've seen the fishing rod holders. small rubber part u-shaped things. pry
it open
slip the rod in... I'm thinking down those lines, just for me, not a company
endorsed thing. Just messing around.  

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven **
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:30 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Stylus Recommendation

I just drew up my first part.  The price quote was $1600!  :-(  (In
all fairness, it's a much larger piece than what you're talking and in

Are their prices workable for smaller plastic designs?


On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:53 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Have you used emachine shop?

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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Paul Jimenez

Related to making openmoko gear - is there vector art of the logo
somewhere? I checked the wiki and couldn't find a reference, and checked and again came up empty. Inquiring minds want to
know! Also, if it is published, we'd probably want some kind of license
to use it that we could show to the printer/manufacturer we wanted to use... 

My personal idea was to talk to the guys at skoobadesign(.com)
and see what kind of surchage there'd be to get a moko-branded small
RAPS to use as a pouch since the moko's not going to ship with one.

What's Openmoko's stance on the community using thier logo, maybe even
creating Openmoko branded items?


On Monday, Apr 21, 2008, Michael Shiloh writes:

Daniel Barkalow wrote:
 On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, steve wrote:
 The pouch, alas, did not fit into the box. When Michael gets his photos
 done, or my spawn get their video done, then you will see that we have
 greatly reduced the size of the box. Partly for aesthetics, and partly to
 create a product where I could pack 10 phones boxes in a bigger box, and
 then ship that bigger box efficiently. So, I had to optimize some things.

 Now, I realize that people want accessories.  So As this launch gets going
 I'll put together some ideas, for accessory packs 

 Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a business
 around this. Our marketing materials are open source. So, you can build
 your own pouches, use our brand, and make a business from accessories.  
 No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the 
 box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone, 
 but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for 
 their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration 

It's all open, dude. I invite any of you to create a sewing pattern for 
an Openmoko pouch.


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Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Paul Jimenez

Hi Michael,

   This is a good start, very informative.  Some good additions, I think,
would be: 

  * Why does computer/usb charging max out at 500mA? is that a
  limitation of the USB spec?

  * you mention 'other manufacturers' that 'identify their own chargers'
  with various resistors... if I have one of those chargers, is there a
  way to get the phone to ID it?

  * for hacking purposes it would be good to document what other mfrs
  chargers use and how easy they are to hack into moko fastchargers.
  This should be a wiki page and community driven, of course, but you
  could get it jump-started with whatever info you have on this issue.
  I, for one, have a small pile of motorola chargers with mini USB on
  them that I'm more than willing to hack into moko fastchargers given
  some basic instructions.

  * you/we should make the charging status *VERY APPARENT*. People are
  going to be unhappy if they plug it in and it doesn't charge when they
  think it will (consider the case of a cheapo usb hub that won't supply
  the power), but this can be avoided if the phone makes it obvious when
  it is or isn't charging.

Just my pair of pennies,


On Friday, Apr 18, 2008, Michael Shiloh writes:
Hi everyone,

With input from the experts who designed the system, I've tried to 
document precisely how charging works on the Neo Freerunner.

I welcome your feedback:

The Neo Freerunner charges the battery when 5VDC is provided at the USB
port, whether from a computer USB port or from a dedicated USB charger.

The Neo Freerunner can charge most rapidly when it can pull 1 Amp from 
the power supply connected to the USB socket. However, not all chargers 
or computers can provide this much current.

When the Neo Freerunner detects that power has been provided at the USB 
port, it will attempt to draw only 100mA. This minimum is mandated by 
the USB standard. This amount of current is insufficient to both power 
the Neo Freerunner (or even just its backlight) and to charge the 
battery, and therefore the battery will not be charged. (The battery 
discharge rate, however, will be slightly lower, as the supplied 100mA 
will be used to augment the battery.)

(When a charger is connected to the USB port, the Neo Freerunner 
automatically powers up. Thus, if charging at 100mA is desired, the Neo 
Freerunner must be shut down after the startup process has completed.)

After detecting USB power, The Neo Freerunner will attempt to negotiate, 
via the USB protocol, a higher charge rate of 500mA. If the device 
powering the Neo is capable of doing so, the Neo Freerunner will charge 
at 500mA.

USB chargers do not implement the USB protocol, and thus can not respond
to requests for higher charge rates. Some manufacturers have worked
around this issue by installing resistors of different values between
different pairs of pins in in order to identify their own chargers of 
known capacity. This is not part of the USB standard and is completely 
up to each manufacturer.

The USB charger provided with the Neo Freerunner can source up to 1A. In
order to identify this special charger, there is a 47K ohm resistor 
between the ID pin and ground. If the Neo Freerunner detects this 
resistor, then the Neo Freerunner will charge at 1A.

In summary, the Neo can charge at 3 different rates: 100mA, 500mA, and 1A.


1. USB negotiation and resistor detection is performed in software, and 
is thus under developer control. A developer might write an application 
to indicate that 500mA or 1 Amp are available, bypassing the USB 
negotiation and the 47K ohm resistor detection.

There is nothing  preventing the software from charging at a higher rate 
than then power provider can supply, although there is danger in doing so.

The danger in drawing more current than a charger or computer USB port
can provide is that components overheat and may become permanently
damaged, or even catch fire, although most USB host devices implement 
current limits that will depower the port on overcurrent.

2. The Neo Freerunner charger is a single assembly which includes
the USB cable. The cable is NOT a separate item and can not be removed
from the charger (without cutting).

3. Any third-party charger that does not contain the 47K resistor will 
cause the software to assume it can draw only 100mA, regardless of how 
much current the charger really can source.

4. In its hard-coded configuration, the PMU doesn't charge the battery
at all. The hard-coded configuration is used when power is applied to 
the PMU after a period of complete absence of power, including the 
backup battery.

When the system comes up, it reconfigures the PMU to enable charging. 
Most of the configurable items are also preserved by the PMU if it 
powers the system down, but the PMU itself still has power - either from 
USB, main battery, or the backup battery. (This is the PMU's STANDBY mode.)

5. All of this discussion is for setting the maximum current that the 

Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Paul Jimenez
On Monday, Apr 14, 2008, steve writes:
Ok thanks dirk.

Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked.  

If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch.

My opinion: it's a phone sock. 

Ideally I would love to have the community
develop this accessory if they want it.

Anyone have thoughts on the RAPS stuff at ?

Maybe you could talk to them about getting an openmoko-branded version?


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Re: Metal case [was: Application idea: Bicycle computer]

2008-03-18 Thread Paul Jimenez

  How about a case that's part metal and part plastic? Make it plastic just 
the antennas (which, IIRC are at the 'ends' of the phone) and metal everywhere 
Heck, it could end up having a *good* effect by being extra shielding between 
the antennas
and the (noisy) electronics of the phone itself.


On Tuesday, Mar 18, 2008, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen writes:
On 3/7/08, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 2008/3/6, JW [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  Why do people want metal cases so much...???Features in wiki
  hardware wishlist too.

  My thought is aluminium = metal = faraday cage = stops gps, gsm, wifi,
  bt signals = BAD idea

 The back of the iPhone is mainly metal isn't it? Many attractive cell phones
 today have at least parts of their cases made of metal.

 Also, I read about someone (forgot where) trying to make a Faraday cage, but
 apparently it is quite difficult in practice. For an efficient cage you
 apparently need many meshes with holes in different sizes for different
 frequencies if I recall correctly. I guess this could be easily tested by
 putting a cell phone in a tin can and trying to call it...

I don't think it is as easy as you think. Please correct me if I am wrong.
For low frequencies the cage will have little effect, but for the wifi
it is not easy to predict. It gets complicated with high freqs. And if
it seems to work nicely when you test it without touching the phone,
maybe it don't work so nice when you do??? I am no expert... just my

Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:

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Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)

2008-02-14 Thread Paul Jimenez
On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes:
There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices
(wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want
certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs.

Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current
battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of
their battery life.  It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn
on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life
go up and down accordingly.


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Re: proprietary firmware

2008-02-07 Thread Paul Jimenez


Software by its nature is easier to fix than hardware or even
firmware; this approach does the Right Thing: vendors win
because the firmware layer just got a whole lot easier to write
and the rest of the world wins because we get as much control
as legally permissible of our hardware.

On Friday, Feb 8, 2008, Wolfgang Spraul writes:
Dear Community,

Some of our chips or chipsets contain proprietary firmware in flash  
memory. For example, in GTA02 these include the Wi-Fi, GPS, and GSM  
Ideally, we would have liked to use chipsets for which even the  
firmware code would be free, but they don't exist right now.
So we accepted proprietary firmware, as long as it was in flash or ROM.

Then we ran into problems when bugs were found in the firmware, and we  
wanted to update handsets out in the field.
The vendors would give us firmware updates and reflashing tools, but  
they wouldn't let us redistribute those tools to our users. We asked  
for special licenses to allow us to distribute those flashing tools to  
our users, and got them in some cases, after months of licensing  
Next we discovered that those reflashing tools had further issues: for  
example, they would only allow loading cryptographically signed  
firmware into the chipset flash memory. The tools do this because  
vendors are worried that people would disassemble, patch, and  
reassemble the firmware, triggering regulatory reclassification of  
their chipsets (software controlled radio).
Furthermore, we see that for upcoming chipsets, vendors are switching  
from storing the firmware in flash memory to loading the firmware into  
RAM at run time. One reason for this is that RAM needs less power and  
is cheaper. In this case the firmware, whether original or updated,  
has to be loaded each time the device boots, requiring that the binary- 
only, restrictively licensed firmware updater be included in the  
OpenMoko distribution.

This got quite frustrating, until we met Richard Stallman last  
weekend. And he cleared it up for us rather quickly :-)

He suggested we treat any chipset with proprietary firmware as a black- 
box, a circuit. He suggested we ignore the firmware inside. If the  
firmware is buggy and the vendor needs the ability to update the  
firmware, we instead ask the vendor to reduce the firmware to the bare  
minimum, so that it can be very simple and bug free, and move the rest  
of the logic into the GPL'ed driver running on the main CPU. This way  
we completely avoid the issue of distributing proprietary firmware  
updates and binary firmware updaters with restrictive licensing that  
load only cryptographically signed firmware.

We liked his advice. It speeds up our decision making and allows us to  
focus on what we do best: Developing Free Software that is available  
in full source code, running on the main CPU, that we and anyone else  
can modify and optimize. There are downsides: We will no longer offer  
reflashing tools to update proprietary firmware, under any license.  
For critical firmware bugs, we will accept returns, or in some cases  
fix the bug in-house.
We will push vendors to simplify the functionality of their  
proprietary firmware, so we can implement more of this on the main CPU  
as Free Software. Maybe some vendors will even open up firmware for  
Free Software development, that would be the ideal outcome we are  
working towards.

We hope this helps clarify OpenMoko's current position on proprietary  
firmware: Ignore them while they stay inside of a chip or chipset, and  
refuse to touch them. Focus on what Free Software can do.
Feedback and comments are always very welcome.
Best Regards,

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Re: Debug board

2007-09-15 Thread Paul Jimenez
On Saturday, Sep 15, 2007, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer writes:
 does anyone happen to know if the debug board of the advanced Neo
 kit will be compatible with future versions of the Neo (or other FIC OpenMok
o phones, at that)?

It will definitely be compatible w/ GTA02. As for the successor
models, we can't make a definitive answer yet (there is not even
schematics nor silicon for those anyways ;), but of course we'll
try to make it compatible...

Does this means there're no plans on the drawing board for GTA03?
Even if it's just an incremental improvement on GTA02, I'd expect
there to be *some* plans - the wiki is surely full of suggestions :)


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Re: information efficient text enty using dasher

2007-05-29 Thread Paul Jimenez
On Tuesday, May 29, 2007, Peter Hoffmann writes:

i just stumbled over a video at the google talks series[0]  about
information-efficient text entry using dasher[1].

I think this is quite an interesting input method for mobile devices
with touch screens or motion sensors. And it is open source and its user
interface is based on gtk.

An other great point is that it is not only limited to english text, but
you an use any input language/alphabet you want.

I'm looking forward to test it on a neo. What do you think?

Regards Peter


I think you should've searched the wiki :)
lists Dasher as only one of over a dozen different wishlisted
input methods.


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Neo-use idea

2007-03-19 Thread Paul Jimenez

If someone wants to repurpose the neo
hardware, check out what the guys at
tml are doing. They're sold out for now, but they might be worth talking
to to see if they want to try and start from a base Neo and just add
some custom software to.  Random idea as I was browsing the web.


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Re: Please no crossposting! Re: Information regarding theMessaging Support in OpenMoko

2007-02-01 Thread Paul Jimenez

I think a good Jabber client could totally supplant MMS - it support
file transfers, which is all MMS really does (I think), as well as
things MMS never dreamed of like encryption and presence and etc.
Putting a good mobile-UI on, say, Psi or one of the other open source
Jabber clients shouldn't be too difficult. Unless there's already one
that I don't know about?

Another feature could actually be an SMS-to-Jabber gateway that runs
on your phone, so as long as your phone has power (and permission to
get on the net, etc) your SMSs will get gatewayed to Jabber so you don't
miss them if you happen to leave your phone at home.


On Thursday, Feb 1, 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz writes:
On 2/1/07 4:30 AM, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Also, who uses MMS?
 Only pretty much the majority of actual cellphone users in Europe, based on
 the market research and carrier requirements I've read...

IMHO, only because nobody has given us anything better. We're trying to do
that. So I asked the guys to ignore MMS for the now. If this is an issue
I'll put resources on this in the future. Right now, I'd much prefer to see
solutions that use GPRS such an IM / Email / ...
 Seems like the typical user would just email
 and attach media and/or just s/ftp
 Typical _Linux_ user, maybe. This is the sort of thing which (in my view)
 represents something of a disconnect between the goals of having as open a
 phone as possible and selling a lot of phones...

You might be right. But I personally feel that MMS is fundamentally flawed.
Costs aside, it's just not the way I think media should be transferred. The
benefits are just too low for the end user. We're trying to fix this.

Really guys, we're trying to rethink lots of things with OpenMoko. I don't
want to do the same things just running under FOSS. We'd be missing out on a
huge invitation to innovate both as a company and a community. Why not use
the flexibility and rethink how we want these devices to work -- as end
users -- not just for geeks but for everyone? I'm not saying we'll get
things right the first time. Just that we're going to try our best ;-)

_This_ opportunity is what makes me excited about OpenMoko. Not (simply) the
fact that it's FOSS based.


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Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?

2007-01-26 Thread Paul Jimenez

Sean please just ignore idiots like this.  The rest of us know
you're doing the best job you can and want to see the phone out
ASAP just as much as we do.  In summary: ignore the trolls and
keep doing what you're doing.


On Saturday, Jan 27, 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz writes:
On 1/26/07 9:40 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The fact that I didn't answer to that mail doesn't mean I didn't read
 it. Should I now say you obviously didn't follow your own annoucements
 and didn't read the topic you set on IRC because you said the phone
 would come out in January?

Listen, there's nobody on this list that wishes we'd had this phone out in
January more than I. But delays happen. You can't seriously be calling us
liars now are you?


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Idea for OpenMoko: Kid Mode

2007-01-24 Thread Paul Jimenez

How about a locked-down 'kid version' of the UI with touchable pictures for 
'mommy', 'daddy', etc ?  Maybe not even labelled, but just the pictures?


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