Italy User Group
Hi, I've seen several large local groups in Europe, but not in Italy. I would like to see a large Italian local group and create a 10 pack Sales Group for the Freerunner. Anyone joining the Italian Group? We'd just need 9 more :) Regards, -- Pedro Aguilar ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Italy User Group
Hi, Sorry, I missed that page... Has anyone started organizing a 10 pack order? May be one in Milan and another one in Veneto? Even if it's only in Milan I would still be interested :) Bye, -- Pedro Aguilar On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 00:53 +0200, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote: Pedro Aguilar ha scritto: Hi, I've seen several large local groups in Europe, but not in Italy. I would like to see a large Italian local group and create a 10 pack Sales Group for the Freerunner. Anyone joining the Italian Group? We'd just need 9 more :) Regards, ?? hey look at the wiki :D we are more than 2, we can actually place 2 10pack order, one in milan, and the other one somwhereelse, or both in milan (there should be someone who can phisically do this) but, welcome, just leave your name in the wiki, i think that a good moment to organize the things is when someone will say Hey, the freerunner is in production stage. Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OPENMOKO.COM IS UP
Hi, I haven't received any confirmation neither :( Anyone else is in this situation? Pedro Aguilar BTW, has anyone of you received confirmation (other than from RT) from OpenMoko that your request is being processed? I did not and neither are there any operations on my credit card from OpenMoko shop. I guess there are going to be some delays in shipping... cheers cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
Hi, On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 15:04 +0100, Silva, Daniel wrote: The problem with evas as i see it, is the available developer pool. GTK as of now is more mature and has many more knowledged developers available. Yes, I agree, but the interesting part of Evas is the concepts it uses for drawing things, it is transparent for the developer the way the widget are redrawn. I just think that I could be nice to try it. Another option, i just thought it abiut it now, is to loose GTK and EFL altogether and use Cairo to render all the widgets, its has many backends already available including X, DirectFB and OpenGL so that wouldn't be an issue, it also has bindings for MANY languages so that isn't an issue either. If we have to program all the widgets with Cairo, we could come back to GTK+ that already uses Cairo and save the widgets programming effort :) It would require some initial work to program all the widgets, but i believe in the long run it would pay off. Regards, Daniel Regards, -- Pedro Aguilar - Original Message - From: Pedro Aguilar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ThomasGstädtner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:56 PM Subject: Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone? Hi, We should try different options, do some serious benchmarks and based on the results we could choose the best solution. Some options would be: - X11/GTK - X11/EFL - DirectFB/GTK - DirectFB/EFL Both, GTK and EFL, have backends for X11 and DirectFB, so running demos and apps shouldn't be a problem. Running DirectFB/GTK works fine in embedded systems, I used it in a PNX8550 processor, but the Neo's processor doesn't have that processing power... According to the ELF doc, the Evas library with DirectFB backend is designed with embedded systems in mind, but I haven't tested it. At least in the i386 platform works great. One real problem I see is that for making some benchmarking we need the real hardware, an emulator wouldn't be reliable. Regards, -- Pedro Aguilar Imho the EFL are the best choise for a device like the Neo. I'm really looking forward to have a EFL-based gui as alternative to the GTK-gui. 2007/6/8, Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Related tutorial : http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Projects:GTK_on_DirectFB_for_Embedded_Systems The choice should be driven by benchmarks results. EFLs are on the row too... Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
Hi, We should try different options, do some serious benchmarks and based on the results we could choose the best solution. Some options would be: - X11/GTK - X11/EFL - DirectFB/GTK - DirectFB/EFL Both, GTK and EFL, have backends for X11 and DirectFB, so running demos and apps shouldn't be a problem. Running DirectFB/GTK works fine in embedded systems, I used it in a PNX8550 processor, but the Neo's processor doesn't have that processing power... According to the ELF doc, the Evas library with DirectFB backend is designed with embedded systems in mind, but I haven't tested it. At least in the i386 platform works great. One real problem I see is that for making some benchmarking we need the real hardware, an emulator wouldn't be reliable. Regards, -- Pedro Aguilar Imho the EFL are the best choise for a device like the Neo. I'm really looking forward to have a EFL-based gui as alternative to the GTK-gui. 2007/6/8, Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Related tutorial : http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Projects:GTK_on_DirectFB_for_Embedded_Systems The choice should be driven by benchmarks results. EFLs are on the row too... Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
Hi, An alternative could be DirectFB, it was designed specifically for embedded systems, there is no overhead with any protocol or other things. GDK has a DirectFB backend, so there is no problem running GTK+ apps over it. It isn't easy to say how much the perfomance could improve, but it could be a real alternative. Regards, -- Pedro Aguilar 2007/6/6, Fabien [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And I think openmoko can lead to real improvements in this domain, if: [...] - some people with the right social skills make the UI improvement effort run smoothly. iPhone is fascinating because it's GUI is so responsive and so smooth. Unfortunately, current OpenMoko GUI running on GTA01 is exactly opposite - every icon tap causes lag, busy indicator isn't too reliable and user experience is hit by overall slowness. As we know, much less powered machines (like 7MHz Amiga with Workbench and even 1MHz C64 with Geos) had enough resources to provide rich and usable user interface. I mentioned PalmOS some time ago - it executed programs in-place so most apps started literally in half a second. Question to FIC Team an/or other embedded developers: is it possible to speed up OpenMoko GUI responsiveness by a factor of 10 or the guilty is too-multi-tiered architecture of Xorg/GTK/Matchbox set? If with GTK/Matchbox we cannot achieve such rich, fluid and, erm..., fluid GUI as iPhone, maybe it's not too late to drop GTK and choose other framework, designed for mobile devices and running quick framebuffer operations? GameBoy provided nice full-screen animations in 1989, eighteen years ago. I'm 100% sure nobody will cry after pure-X11 applications we loose this way. Almost every GTK application would require rewriting/porting to fit OpenMoko capabilities, so it's not great loss too. Not to mention font and other DPI-aware issues. If OpenMoko will be judged as poor's man iPhone look and feel, it won't be attractive ever. To attract public attention we need at least one demo application which can animate elegant GUI with colorful widgets (e.g. album covers) as nice and smooth as we saw at iPhone commercials. If it cannot be done, it will be hard to advertise Neo, because youtube screencasts is today primary way people become acquainted with new device's user interfaces. -- Tomek Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FOSDEM OpenMoko talk now on video.google.com
If I remember well, the price for the regular device was US$350 and for
the hacker's lunchbox $US200. I don't remember exactly the price of the
car kit, I think it was around US$50
In the Open Embedded booth they had a Neo1973 that I could play with
for around 5 mins!!! Here's my first experience/feedback:
Hardware:
The design is similar to the images we have seen in the web. This one
was white with the orange edge. The only difference was that it said
Nomad instead of Neo1973 below de screen... I couldn't see the
internal board. The mini USB was connected to a laptop, they told me not
to unplug-it otherwise bad things could happen so I stayed close to the
laptop.
Software:
Although the device was not completely functional, I was able to use the
Contacts app and a shell. The UI is beautiful, quite clean and simple,
with the 3 areas well identified: top panel, bottom panel and the
central fullscreen app. The look feel was not yet as the imgs we
have seen in the web, if you have used Matchbox before, you could
realize that it was running there. The performance while navigating
through the folders was really good, the touchscreen was very
responsive!
The contacts software, similar to evolution (not sure if it was
evolution) worked quite well, I was able to add a test user without
any problem (of course, with the help of a stylus that the guy next to
me gave me, thanks!) Only the app start-up was not very fast.
Then, I opened a shell and could entered some commands, this was not
that easy because the virtual keyboard is very very small. I could type
top, uname, had a look at /proc... Of course, X was the must
resource-hungry process (DirectFB came to my mind ;). The kernel running
there was a 2.6.17.
The overall experience was quite good, the device is great!!! Since I
was just able to use a couple of apps, I got worried about the
availability of the others, so I asked Sean if they were on-time for the
March launch and he said that he was confident with the dates!
Regarding the presentation, you can view it at google video and make
your own idea about it, although the slides are not clear. Sean is very
enthusiast and convinced about his ideas and you can perceive it easily,
the whole presentation was very charged with this! Mickey was very clear
and precise too! From the technical point of view, the most important
thing was that OpenMoko provides the _building blocks_ and a _set of
rules_ for creating a new paradigm. Of course, these two things are open
source, so you can create/modified your own blocks/rules and potentially
creating new apps and devices. However, the most important thing, as
Sean said, was the slide regarding their business model, this answered a
lot of questions.
--
Pedro Aguilar
On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 11:26 -0500, Igor Foox wrote:
On 2/26/07, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ole Tange wrote:
I had hoped there was video coverage of the event. When I found out
there was not I asked one of the better seated persons to record the
event using my pocket camera. I have yet to see if the recording is
acceptable.
What is the easiest way to distribute the video?
Thanks to Ole and SpeedEvil (on IRC), the FOSDEM talk is now on
video.google.com - search for openmoko and you'll find it.
Can anyone who was present at FOSDEM tell the rest of us what the
pricing options for the Neo are? There is a slide in the video where
Sean talks about the pricing for the {Regular,Car Kit, Hacker's
Lunchbox} and the included accessories, but he never says the price
outloud, and alas the slides are incomprehensible. :P
Thanks,
Igor
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First experience with the Neo1973 at FOSDEM
Hi, I was at FOSDEM too and very lucky for been seated at second row, just behind the video camera. The organizers said that all presentations will be in the FOSDEM website, so in the followings hours/days it should be there. In the Open Embedded booth they had a Neo1973 that I could play with for around 5 mins!!! Here's my first experience/feedback: Hardware: The design is similar to the images we have seen in the web. This one was white with the orange edge. The only difference was that it said Nomad instead of Neo1973 below de screen... I couldn't see the internal board. The mini USB was connected to a laptop, they told me not to unplug-it otherwise bad things could happen so I stayed close to the laptop. Software: Although the device was not completely functional, I was able to use the Contacts app and a shell. The UI is beautiful, quite clean and simple, with the 3 areas well identified: top panel, bottom panel and the central fullscreen app. The look feel was not yet as the imgs we have seen in the web, if you have used Matchbox before, you could realize that it was running there. The performance while navigating through the folders was really good, the touchscreen was very responsive! The contacts software, similar to evolution (not sure if it was evolution) worked quite well, I was able to add a test user without any problem (of course, with the help of a stylus that the guy next to me gave me, thanks!) Only the app start-up was not very fast. Then, I opened a shell and could entered some commands, this was not that easy because the virtual keyboard is very very small. I could type top, uname, had a look at /proc... Of course, X was the must resource-hungry process (DirectFB came to my mind ;). The kernel running there was a 2.6.17. The overall experience was quite good, the device is great!!! Since I was just able to use a couple of apps, I got worried about the availability of the others, so I asked Sean if they were on-time for the March launch and he said that he was confident with the dates! Regarding the presentation, you can view it at google video and make your own idea about it, although the slides are not clear. Sean is very enthusiast and convinced about his ideas and you can perceive it easily, the whole presentation was very charged with this! Mickey was very clear and precise too! From the technical point of view, the most important thing was that OpenMoko provides the _building blocks_ and a _set of rules_ for creating a new paradigm. Of course, these two things are open source, so you can create/modified your own blocks/rules and potentially creating new apps and devices. However, the most important thing, as Sean said, was the slide regarding their business model, this answered a lot of questions. Regards, Pedro Aguilar On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 14:20 +0100, Richard Bennett wrote: On Monday 26 February 2007 13:20, Rod Whitby wrote: Ole Tange wrote: I had hoped there was video coverage of the event. When I found out there was not I asked one of the better seated persons to record the event using my pocket camera. I have yet to see if the recording is acceptable. What is the easiest way to distribute the video? Thanks to Ole and SpeedEvil (on IRC), the FOSDEM talk is now on video.google.com - search for openmoko and you'll find it. One interesting thing is said at 30:20. Food for speculation... Would they really add *that* so late in the process? Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Pedro Aguilar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko Challenges
Hi, I understand the problems that could happen when developing embedded devices, so I appreciate that you're sincere and provide us the source code as a good (although not ideal) starting point. Thanks and see you at FOSDEM, I won't make it to the Friday Beer, but we can meet during the following two days. Pedro Aguilar Dear Community, We, the OpenMoko Team, have promised exciting news about our project today. We have some information that we think you will like very much, but also have some news we like less. Let us first address the unpleasant part, before turning to the more cheerful part of this announcement. After we announced OpenMoko last November, we were flooded with emails. Most were absolutely encouraging, thanking us for undertaking this project. And out of the many thousands of emails, only two requests came again and again: Where's bluetooth? And, Why doesn't it have WiFi? (We really do read _everything_ you write.) Originally, bluetooth was in our product spec, however, this was left out of our schematics in an early stage. At the time we were really hurting for resources internally, so we did not push. Making changes to a product while in the RD stages can be quite painful. But after all the incredible demand, post-November, we felt it had to be done. We had a string of bad luck that really hurt our productivity. Each hardware revision takes at least one month of time. Each month without stable hardware means serious delays for software. One time we received the wrong memory from our vendors and we failed to catch this before production. Another time some key components ran out of supply. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, our baseband leader's mom died leaving a gaping wound in both his heart and our hardware team. But we moved on. Little by little our hardware started to come together. Around the middle of January we thought we finally found a stable revision. At this point, our software was seriously behind schedule, but as Alan Cox once said, Free Software is always late. January's announcement bought us more time to fix some hardware issues still plaguing us. We also modified the position of the bluetooth module to make way for a JTAG port (we're trying our best to be hacker friendly). This required our vendor to design a special FPC to connect the module to our board. Something on the order of 3 weeks would be required to complete this simple task. One thousand little Murphy's seems to be what we have running around teasing this project. Less than a 7% yield rate is all that we got out of this new cable; not even enough to meet our Phase 0 demand. Needless to say, it was an incredibly depressing day for all of us. Tormented is really the only word that we can think of now to describe how we are feeling as a team, forced with making this decision: Do we delay again, wait for the hardware and software to be ready, or do we just open up now as promised without reaching our key milestone? Each of us, in different ways, have struggled with this decision for the past five days. We're all extremely demanding of ourselves when it comes to the quality of our work. Nearly every minute of our waking lives have been spent on this project. So to be at this state, now, is really hard on us. Mickey Lauer, one of our core developers sent an email, only a few hours ago, that put things back into perspective for us. He said, A lot of people will be disappointed by the state of the software, but -- I may be a dreamer -- I prefer rough and truly open solutions (where I have the chance to help shaping the future) over cool, but already finished and closed solutions (where all I can do is take the platform as it is or NOT.) As planned, we are going to open this project up at this point. Within three days of this announcement you will all have access to our source code, Wiki, and Bugzilla. Hopefully you can understand why we're at this less-than-ideal state. But more importantly, we hope you understand that opening our code now, and letting you join us in making this dream of an open phone platform come true, is more important for us than mere appearances. Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working for a full week. Having our newly designed FPC built before is really wishful thinking. All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Please understand that phase 0 is a system of checks and balances, so it simply cannot be rushed. We want to get the framework right, the first time around. Hopefully you all can live with the slight delays in our schedule. We're all super excited to be cranking again and eagerly await sending you hardware so you can join us in the party
Re: web browser
Hi, Sometime ago there was a patch for Dillo (when it was still alpha) for supporting SSL. However, I don't know of any open-source browser for embedded systems based on GTK+ 2 that supports SSL and Javascript, so this could be an interesting project. Pedro Aguilar Perhaps, but: - They seem to be based in old Gtk 1.x. Dillo was the web browser for GPE until GPE got 2.x and Dillo didn't update. - Do they support SSL connections? Best regards, 2007/1/24, Pedro Aguilar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, There are several open source browser for GTK+ that could run in the Neo such as Dillo and Skipstone. Links (the graphical version), although is not based on GTK+, could be another alternative. Pedro Aguilar Hello. Is Neo going to have more or less featurefill web browser (e.g. with javascript machine, etc)? - what is minimo status? is it alive at all? - any chances to get opera or netfront ports? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.net msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: Virtual desktop
Hi, Since devices like the Neo are used for several things that can be executed simultaneosuly in the GUI, it could make sense to have a windowing or virtual desktop support. For example, if I'm using a browser in virtual desktop 1 and I receive a msg from a friend asking me for an info that I can get in Google, I can search it in the browser and copy-paste it to the response msg window that is in virtual desktop 2. In this way I can have 2 or more apps simultaneously that can interact between them without the need to exiting one for entering another. This kins of devices are in wide spread use and the users would appreciate having more flexibility and integration between the apps. Pedro Aguilar -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer schreef: Koen Kooi wrote: OpenMoko doesn't support windowing, all applications open full-screen, What about modal windows and dialogs? We have full-screen dialogs, half-screen dialogs (confirmation stuff) and (I'm not sure yet where we really want to keep those or rather use the common statusbar at the bottom for those as well) short-lived information popups (think HildonBanner). HildonBanner is the infoprint stuff, or in GPE speak 'gpe-what'? Yeah. Since our lower footer + status bar is always visible, I wonder whether this might make a better place for temporary messages than an infoprint. What do you think? What happens if you have 2 (or more) nearly simultanious messages? Hildon just overwrites the previous messages, moko could 'stack' them, or do it like a 'ticker' in the statusbars. I don't see a clear winner. regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFluoxMkyGM64RGpERAtHZAJ98ybyTeuZ2nfc2BsBSYbA2V05QrwCgok9d MtIXDbYosv+ch640+b5czHI= =idTU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
X and Matchbox
Hi, I have several questions regarding the graphics support. As far as I know the Neo uses X and Matchbox as Window Manager. Do you know if the video driver that X uses has been specifically developed/modified for this platform? X can be adapted for embedded devices (like in the Zaurus) for being as light as possible. In the Neo how much memory and footprint does X needs? Does OpenMoko support Frame Buffer? Using the FB could be interesting because some graphic operations could be improved. Have you ever tested it with other Window Managers? I know Matchbox was specifically designed for this kinf of devices, but WindowMaker and Blackbox, for example, are very light and fast too (and they support virtual desktops that could be nice to have). Thanks! Pedro Aguilar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
