Re: Possibilities for commercial software?
On 26 Jan 2007, at 8:34 pm, David Schlesinger wrote: I'd say you're instead limiting free to mean free according to the doctrine of the Free Software Foundation. (Should I only be eating in restaurants which will give me copies of their recipes, for the asking, in the name of freedom...? It's gonna limit where I can go...) Why can't a person have the freedom to run proprietary software on _their_ open phone if they choose to? No one's requiring _you_ to, presumably, if you choose not to. Does the general community need folks like you to protect us from ourselves? (And you never answered my question about the ethics of Photoshop...) It's not a matter of should. A person DOES have the freedom to run proprietary software on their open phone if they choose, but that freedom, if acted on, has consequences (called an externality in economics). And that consequence is that the more people who do it the more reliant on non-free software free software becomes, and the more reliant free software is on un-free software the less free the whole system becomes: meaning, when you look at the whole picture, users will have less freedom to use software, and the systems run by that software, in the way they want. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GNU discussion (was re:Free your phone)
Are you sure you should be on a children's mailing list somewhere? Renaissance Man On 27 Jan 2007, at 4:16 pm, David Schlesinger wrote: Yawn. So quit. Move to the people's republic of your choice and live in proletarian harmony, giving according to your means and receiving according to your needs. I hear North Korea's nice if you like that sort of thing, and aren't too married to the eating thing. Bring a sweater, it's cold this time of year. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GNU discussion
Well you managed to miss the point of my *metaphor* (not straw man), even though I spelt it out for you: The point is real freedom is measured on a whole picture basis, not on an individual basis. How are you less free as a result? Apple's iPhone, for instance, contains open source software, but because it's totally reliant on un-free software I can't add VoIP via WiFi to it for instance, effectively nullifying the freedom aspect of the free software component for its users. All the effort that went into that free software to make it free is nullified for me as a user and Apple (a large purveyor or largely un-free software) gets a leg up (boosting it's ability to compete against free software) that it wouldn't have had if that software had been licenced under the GPL, effectively making the society I live in less free. Renaissance Man On 27 Jan 2007, at 4:15 pm, David Schlesinger wrote: If I am free to beat someone up that does not mean the sum total of freedom for society is increased. Sorry, pointlessness alert. There's _never_ a freedom to beat someone up, and--outside of the very limited contexts of, e.g., law enforcement or military activities--no one can grant one, so let's put this straw man to rest right away. Beating someone up is assault and battery, which are either misdemeanors or felonies, depending on the degree of severity, and you're never free to do either one. Granting the freedom to extend a piece of code in whatever ways one's ingenuity allows, and do what one likes with those changes, doesn't take anything away from the original situation. If Apple takes BSD code and makes it do interesting things it couldn't before, you no worse off than you were before they did so, whether or not they share the source code for those changes with you. Who do you imagine is getting beaten up? How are you less free as a result? If Apple's changes--and unwillingness to share--offend you, don't buy anything from 'em. If others don't mind, do you feel that you know better and should be able to restrict _their_ freedom to buy Apple's products...? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free This Mailing List! (was Re: GNU discussion (was re:Free your phone))
On 24 Jan 2007, at 7:13 pm, David Schlesinger wrote: Where did I, or anybody else, DEMAND that OpenMoko give credit to GNU? Dave Crossland's demanded it on a couple of occasions. Go back and reread his latest messages, particularly his message of 6:13 am this morning. It might help things if you didn't continue to make bald face lies David. Renaissance Man___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
He said what? Christ, give me Richard Stallman any day. Renaissance Man On 24 Jan 2007, at 1:03 am, Marcus Bauer wrote: Linus Torvalds once jokingly said: I am your god. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GNU discussion (was re:Free your phone)
David, if you're not interested in the topic take note of the subject in your inbox and stop reading the thread. Don't troll the thread with inflammatory arguments and personal attacks. You may have made up your mind but there are clearly other people who would like to continue the discussion, since they're asking questions. Crossland was doing just that, answering someone's question. It's okay for you to disagree, but this doesn't give you the right to keep browbeating people into stopping the discussion. Renaissance Man On 22 Jan 2007, at 7:29 pm, David Schlesinger wrote: I like to be accurate and know what I am talking about, and I like others to be too :-) It simply never ends, does it? Feel entirely free to call it GNU/Linux, Bob/Linux, Jim/Linux or whatever you like, okay. But _please_ stop proselytizing. Have you ever noticed how folks with a zealot-like position assume, that when you disagree with them, that it represents some failure of adequate (or maybe adequately _repeated_) explanation on their part...? I get it, okay? I disagree. Telling me that GNU is a principal developer doesn't make it so and opinions clearly vary here. So, why don't you let those of use who choose to use a more commonly accepted, no less accurate, and more generally understood name simply do so? I can just see some poor fellow asking a sales-droid what the actual difference is between Linux (I've _heard_ of _that_!) and _GNU_/Linux. So, it's something _different_ than Linux? Yes, it's more conducive to personal freedom and encourages community better. Does it make the phone _do_ anything different? Other than encouraging freedom, no. Um, mm-kay... I realy just wanted a cell phone... Maybe I should get a Microsoft one instead; I've _heard_ of that. I don't what what this GNU stuff is, but I never heard of it, so I don't know whether it really works or not... Are you sure you don't have one that just runs _Linux_...? Sorry, nope. Ya _fascist._ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GNU discussion (was re:Free your phone)
From: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Debate-GNU-Linux This debate cannot be won, by either side. Sometimes intelligent people disagree, this is A Good Thing. Actually I thought it was pretty clear from Sean's comment on the matter that, with regard to OpenMoko, that GNU/Linux does indeed win the day: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001720.html Renaissance Man On 23 Jan 2007, at 12:30 am, Richard Franks wrote: On 1/22/07, David Schlesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It simply never ends, does it? One can hope :-) Next time I get another argument on this subject in my inbox, I'm going to simply email this back-to-sender, not the entire list: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Debate-GNU-Linux Thus hopefully, we can get back to the fun and interesting stuff! Of course, it may be vandalised, or 'improved' upon, but I'm also not going to touch that page again, so go ahead! Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
But it's comments like yours that turn it into something like a religion. The person who proposed this in the first place had a pragmatic argument, not a religious one. Relative to many of you I know little about GNU and Linux but I can certainly see the practical reasons for using the GNU/Linux moniker. In fact the *act* of actually *using* the term GNU/Linux instead of Linux seems to me so trivial I have a hard time understanding why some of you are so opposed to it and want to turn it into a religious discussion. Renaissance Man On 21 Jan 2007, at 5:22 am, Greg Tada wrote: This is so tiring. I think we've all had to deal with this GNU/ Linux vs. Linux war multiple times. How about those of you who care about it argue amongst yourselves instead of clogging our inboxes? WE'VE ALL HEARD IT BEFORE AND CAME TO OUR OWN CONCLUSIONS ALREADY. Why don't we start working constructively on what will make this platform better instead of bickering over religion? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WiFi
Heh, I think OpenMoko needs a web forum, otherwise such subjects are going to be done to death over and over. I recently just sparked a big discussion on just this subject Tom. I'm of much the same opinion as you. The absence of WiFi appears to be purely down to technical issues, but temporary ones apparently. Check out recent discussion here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001370.html Renaissance Man On 21 Jan 2007, at 3:11 pm, Tom Berger wrote: Hya, I'm new to the list, so I don't know whether this was already discussed, but I'm surprised (and a bit sorry) that the OpenMoKo spec doesn't include WiFi - I'm currently using an HTC Universal and would very much like to switch to the MoKo as soon as it's available, but I find that the WiFi option is really useful and it will be very hard for me to give it up - I use my phone for browsing the web quite a lot, and also for VOIP (which is really one of the killer apps for smart phones). What is the rationale behind the exclusion of WiFi? Will you consider including it on future revisions? Will it be possible to extend the MoKo with a WiFi card or something like that? Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
Well, that wasn't so hard now was it. Maybe those who're so keen to make a big fuss and accuse people like Crossland of religious fervour could take a page out of Sean's book? Renaissance Man On 21 Jan 2007, at 2:28 pm, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 1/21/07 4:57 AM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20/01/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the OpenMoko Linux Distribution Can the FIC marketting department call it 'the OpenMoko GNU/Linux Distribution'? We'll just call it OpenMoko. I think short simple branding will be key for us if we want main stream appeal. Don't worry though, I have something special in the form of a user's manual that will give credit to GNU. Given that the free software nature of the phone is its primary feature, it seems strange not to acknowledge the GNU project, which is the whole reason there is free software at all... We will definitely acknowledge this. Join us. Free Your Phone. I totally love this catch phrase! I hope that the FIC marketting uses it as the official tagline of all its openmoko devices! It will for sure! This just popped into my head one day while taking a shower. I think it's really started to stick. Plus somebody who knows _nothing_ about Free Software can still related to it. Thanks for your comments! -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
That might be the case if those who oppose the use of GNU actually had a rational case. The fact is they just don't; it's mostly just an emotional reaction from what I can see. Renaissance Man On 21 Jan 2007, at 8:09 pm, David Ford wrote: Your statement should read ... Maybe those who're so keen to push GNU/Averything on everyone and start flame wars could take a page out of Sean's book? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
On 21 Jan 2007, at 9:01 pm, David Schlesinger wrote: I don't actually believe this, other than for the excruciatingly small minority of people who hang out on mailing lists such as this one. The overwhelming majority of people neither know nor care what the operating system on their cellphone is, nor is the idea of one cellphone supporting freedom and community more than another one going to be the least bit meaningful to them. Both my girlfriend and father are aware of Free Software and what it means. This is due to me coming across the FSF out of curiosity about GNU, and then passing that knowledge onto them. If people buy phones based on Linux, which could be a fine thing for open source developers, they'll buy them because they're _better phones_, and for no other reason--that's presupposing that they, in fact, are better, of course. But you're presupposing that people are incapable of treating Freedom as a factor when the rate a product or service. There's very little stopping people from judging the Freedom aspect of a product or service apart from awareness of it. But this is strictly a _political_ agenda, and I'm still unconvinced that this list is an appropriate place for you to be flogging it. Out of interest can you define your use of political agenda? Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
On 21 Jan 2007, at 9:54 pm, David Schlesinger wrote: Both my girlfriend and father are aware of Free Software and what it means. This is due to me coming across the FSF out of curiosity about GNU, and then passing that knowledge onto them. That's nice. The point is these people are certainly not geeks, so it's certainly incorrect to assume that only geeks know about Free Software and the benefits of supporting it. Runs free software doesn't appear on the checklist of features that the average person is looking for or cares about. That's unlikely to change. Yes, very unlikely to change when people successfully oppose efforts to increase awareness of it through projects like OpenMoko. I never said they were incapable, just that they _don't_. If people factored freedom into their general buying decisions, Western nations wouldn't be running the kind of trade deficits with China that they currently do... I agree that market economics creates such externalities, but just because market economics has such defects doesn't mean that they can't be mitigated by agendas like that of the FSF. Buy Local campaigns, for instance, have been shown in many countries to mitigate problems like the one you mention. Out of interest can you define your use of political agenda? In this instance, an agenda based on one party's apparent dissatisfaction with not getting the credit they assert they deserve, and which has nothing to do with software development or any piece of software's being more or less free. Okay. Well I guess this is the fundamental difference between the way you and I look at this issue. You think the FSF and supporters are pushing an agenda simply to get more credit for their efforts. I, and others, on the other hand, think the FSF and supporters are pushing an agenda to promote Free Software. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
On 21 Jan 2007, at 10:58 pm, David Ford wrote: Free software existed before GNU, it will exist after GNU. Yes, but will we still enjoy the freedom it was intended to bring? Or will it be a mix of free and unfree components barely usable without the unfree components that users will expect to find? It seems clear to me, having come to this list asking for WiFi and finding out freedom was an issue in this regard, that those driving this project are committed to Free Software and not just Open Source. And Sean's comments on the matter appear to have confirmed this. And that probably means OpenMoko will have at least three more customers (me, my mrs and my old man). (well that and the fact that Job's decision to leave out VoIP from his machine sent me on a hunt for alternatives) Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
On 20 Jan 2007, at 6:06 am, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: We will sell the Neo1973 direct from openmoko.com for US$350 plus shipping. Sales and orders will be worldwide. Does this mean it'll be shipping direct from openmoko.com with the correct power plug for each country? The 2nd generation OpenMoko device will also be introduced at this time [2007-09-11]. Fantastic, this is before the launch of the 1st gen. iPhone in Europe, Asia and Oceania. We have something special in the works, but again, you will help shape this device. Heh, you certainly know how to create anticipation Sean. Hope it includes WiFi! sorry had to get my plug in there. This will be the computer of the 21st century. There's another interesting reason why this will almost certainly be the case: if scientists are correct about global heating the energy efficiency of any electrical device that will be ubiquitous on a global scale is paramount. Such mobile devices are perfect in this sense. In fact, once photovoltaic cells are efficient enough it would be great to have them form the shell of the case of one of these devices. I quite like the wind-up technology used in the OLPC too. The Renaissance Man___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: power plug
Great, nice design decision. This is another thing that's very attractive about this product; its openness encourages it to be a truly borderless device (Apple, for instance, often falls into the trap of an American-centric approach with it's products). Renaissance Man On 20 Jan 2007, at 10:37 am, Sven Neuhaus wrote: Renaissance Man schrieb: On 20 Jan 2007, at 6:06 am, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: We will sell the Neo1973 direct from openmoko.com for US$350 plus shipping. Sales and orders will be worldwide. Does this mean it'll be shipping direct from openmoko.com with the correct power plug for each country? The phone is charged via USB. I am assuming it comes without a power supply. You can get a USB charger for a power outlet on ebay for a few bucks if you want to charge it without a PC. -Sven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko devices and Mac OS X
On 20 Jan 2007, at 11:50 am, Andreas Kostyrka wrote: No idea what iSync is or does :) iSync is Apple's software for synchronizing contacts, calendar, web bookmarks and passwords with mobile devices and its dotMac service: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/isync/ iPhoto I presume is some management app for photos, again I'm not sure what you expect of a phone that has 64MB storage onboard? Yeah I was thinking more in terms of the next generation. And, yes, iPhoto is Apple's photo management software (I think Apple actually sync photos to iPods via iTunes tho): http://www.apple.com/ilife/iphoto/ Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Text input, OpenMoko and Tengo
Would I be right in assuming we won't see anything like Tengo-type free software text input on OpenMoko, being that it's patented? http://www.tengo.net/ I'm also assuming that getting Tengo to add support for OpenMoko is a trivial matter. But would be nice to have a freedom software version. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
On 21 Jan 2007, at 12:25 am, Richard Franks wrote: I agree, and I agree that this would generally be A Good Thing. But I think it that it would make the Neo just a little bit harder to market - if a potential customer is asking themselves What does a GNU do? rather than reading the feature-list, then this is A Bad Thing. If someone's going to be asking themselves that, the same goes for Linux. OpenMoko is clearly what people are going to refer to it as, but, as Crossland points out, IF and whenever a *full title* is used, GNU/Linux seems more appropriate than Linux. I care about the technology first, the more popular the platform - the quicker Open Source technology progresses. My reasoning is that simple. Although I support the goals of the FSF, I hold progress ahead of my political philosophy. I don't follow your reasoning at all. How does referring to a piece of software as GNU/Linux instead Linux slow down the progress of it? Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 18 Jan 2007, at 7:41 am, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: On Thursday 18 January 2007 00:09, Renaissance Man wrote: Why does no organisation (even Apple) seem to get it that the mobile communications revolution is through VoIP via WiFi. This is the killer app. WiFi enabled Nokia E Series can do that. As can do many Winmobile devices. no organization that gets it is hardly true. Thanks for cutting off my last paragraph: Well there is one organisation but they don't make hardware. They even offer a one phone number solution for VoIP/Cell too: truphone.com (which works with the Nokia E Series and N80s, as I mentioned) The problem with the Nokia E Series, N80s, and Windows smartphones is that they're either very expensive and/or they don't actually make VoIP via WiFi easy. The only organisation that seems to get it is Truphone. You can take their software package, put it on the cheapest supported WiFi/GSM enabled phone you can get and then you have a phone that seamlessly swaps between WiFi and GSM with one phone number. Truphone get it. Nobody else does yet. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 18 Jan 2007, at 2:37 am, David Schlesinger wrote: The NEO's not _cheap_ ... I was talking about value-for-money cheap, not capital cost. In this sense the Neo is cheap. I just happen to be in the market for a smart phone, but there's nothing in my argument that precludes someone making a plain unlocked phone with GSM/WiFi VoIP. I really doubt that [near zero-cost mobile communication will be revolutionary] ... Cheap phone service ... is one of the least interesting ... When I worked at Apple, I had a sign up on my office for a while that read, When the revolution comes, things will be _different_! (Not _better_, just_different_.) Well Steve Jobs talks about the iPod being a revolution, and the Mac. Neither of which were the first of their kind. They simply got the package right. That's what made them revolutionary. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:17 am, Sencer wrote: Then for everbody's sake use the 350$ to buy two simple WiFi VOIP- phones, one for home, one for work and stop whining. That won't make my communications easier, that just makes it more complicated. One way or another, probably within the next few months, I'm going to have one mobile communications device, with one phone number, that allows me to talk for free to my friends in London and family across the world when I'm in range of a freely accessible WiFi connection (which is much of the day). Just wish it had been the Neo, because it's such a great product otherwise. Renaissance Man, reducing the success or the revolutionary aspect of openmoko to the aspect of Wifi is missing the point completely and utterly. To suggest that that's what I'm doing is missing my point entirely. Now you say you are willing to sell body parts to get that feature. In my book that proves that you've completely lost it and do not operate from a reality-based world-view. It's called a figure of speech. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why do I want WiFi?
They recently received 25 million in funding too. Most answers to your questions are probably here: http://www.truphone.com/scn/blog/blog.tru if they pulled this off, it would be really huge. Yeah, wouldn't it have been great if Neo rev1 could have taken advantage of it? The sooner Neo include WiFi the better in my view. Renaissance man On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:25 pm, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: On Thursday 18 January 2007 09:54, Renaissance Man wrote: Seamless swapping needs the carriers' help. And they won't do it for free, rest assured. Already being done. See http://truphone.com Doesn't really say how it works. An all SIP solution doesnt really sound like it could ever be seamless with GSM. I'd really like to know just how this supposed to work, because if they pulled this off, it would be really huge. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 18 Jan 2007, at 1:30 pm, Sencer wrote: Renaissance Man, reducing the success or the revolutionary aspect of openmoko to the aspect of Wifi is missing the point completely and utterly. To suggest that that's what I'm doing is missing my point entirely. O RLY? Let me quote what you wrote: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary The reason is neither of them have VoIP via WiFi. Reality distortion field in full effect... You still don't get it. The revolutionary aspect of such a device would be the ability to talk to anyone mostly for free with one device and phone number, and be mobile. WiFi/VoIP is just a necessary part of the package for achieving that. P.S.: Thanks for finally realising that it is better if you drop the debate about including wifi in the first generation device. Be it whether the fundamental point people having been trying to make to you, got through, or because you decided to move on to cheerleading and trolling for some other revolutionary product. Hey, no problem. Sorry for being so inconvenient as to have a different view to start with. I know how awful it can be for people like you if others don't think the same way as you to begin with. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
Well, thanks for the interesting discussion. Sorry for riling a few people (happens when you challenge people's preconceptions). Look forward with eager anticipation to the Neo v2. Hopefully I wouldn't have been sucked into the iPhone ecosystem before then. And, to those who think I'm wrong about the combination of GSM and WiFi/VoIP in a mobile device, you're just wrong and I'll be emailing this list in 2-3 years time (with a link to this discussion) to gloat, because so many of us will be using such devices and saving millions on our phone bills. :) Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 18 Jan 2007, at 9:42 pm, Sencer wrote: Everbody gets what you are saying. It is you who does not understand that it is largely irrelevant, because everybody already is in favour of having wifi at some point. The question is not about the plus side of having wifi, but the question is with dealing with the costs of adding wifi to 1st generation device, which completely flies past you. No, that was just the argument some were projecting onto me; my argument isn't that you must include wifi in the Neo v1 no matter what the cost. My argument is that the GSM+WiFi/VoIP combination is a revolution waiting to happen and that OpenMoko clearly won't be player in this until it gets WiFi. By the time it does get WiFi, however, the revolution may already have happened, and OpenMoko will simply be joining the bandwagon, which is a shame because of the potential mindshare in being a pioneer of such a device. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why do I want WiFi?
You might like to read the FAQ Gabriel: http://www.truphone.com/scn/blog/faq.tru On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:25 pm, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: Doesn't really say how it works. An all SIP solution doesnt really sound like it could ever be seamless with GSM. I'd really like to know just how this supposed to work, because if they pulled this off, it would be really huge. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:24 pm, Andreas Kostyrka wrote: Not realistic, because the iPhone won't be available this year in Europe ;) Not according to Apple. End of 2007 is their intended release date. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 18 Jan 2007, at 10:23 pm, Marcel de Jong wrote: I ask you, who will pay the bandwidth bills? The bandwidth bills are largely already paid (home and work are flat rate), plus free hotspots, plus there's flat rate hotspot schemes like The Cloud in Europe. Yes, Wifi on the Neo is cool, though it would slurp battery life. Given the choice, I'd rather have a long battery life (at least 24 hours) and no Wifi, then have Wifi and only be able to use my phone for 5 hours (the estimated battery life of the iphone). No, that's the estimated battery time for continuous talking, video or web browsing. They say 16 hours for continuous music playback. But no word on standby time. Presumably more than 16 hours. You might also be interested in reading the Truphone FAQ How is the battery life affected when using Truphone? from this page (pasted below): http://www.truphone.com/scn/blog/faq.truHow is the battery life affected when using Truphone? Truphone uses Wireless LAN (WiFi) radio as well as GSM radio in the handset, so usually you can expect that the battery life when using Truphone in 'Always on' mode is approximately half that of normal cellular (GSM and 3G) operation; for example about 2 days (rather than 4) on an E60. Talk time is usually a bit longer on WiFi than on GSM. Standby times are greatly affected by GSM / 2G and 3G signal strength: - Good signal 3G connections use slightly more battery than good 2G connections. - Poor signal 3G connections use much more battery than good 2G connections (when a handset is in poor coverage areas it increases its transmission power). - Very poor 3G connections that switch back and forth to 2G use more battery than a stable connection. and so on... Standby time using Truphone on Wireless LAN is not generally affected as strongly by the Wireless LAN signal strength. You can increase the battery life for Wireless LAN use by setting the phone to 'offline' - press the power button briefly and you will get a menu. Don't forget to set it back to 'General' or another active profile before you wish to make GSM calls! We will publish a survey of battery life in various situations shortly. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
Oh great, I get to be silly now too? Okay, tag you're it. I'm sorry but taking offence at being misconstrued is not silly. Renaissance Man On 19 Jan 2007, at 12:31 am, David Schlesinger wrote: Dunno, maybe you have a reading comprehension disability Okay, now it's _you_ that needs to be declared silly. You're just wasting time and electrons now. Please stop. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 17 Jan 2007, at 11:29 pm, Alexander Steinert wrote: They got it. Who got it? But VoIPoWLAN as the *only* speech channel is no killer app, IMHO. It's VoIPoWLAN + GSM. Yeah that's what I meant. GSM's a given. As I said, Truphone offers this capability and you have one phone number which seamlessly moves between WiFi and GSM. Please include WiFi! It's just a matter of patience. OpenMoko/Neo is the Way[TM]. Everything I've read says it doesn't have WiFi. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary
On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:42 am, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Renaissance Man writes: Everything I've read says it doesn't have WiFi. It doesn't. But assuming it's a success, there will surely be a successor soon that does. Or how about guarantee success by giving it WiFi. This is all it needs to be a revolution from day one. Renaissance Man. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why do I want WiFi?
On 18 Jan 2007, at 2:14 am, Jean-Philippe Monteiro wrote: Why do I want WiFi? ... NOT to make expensive VoIP calls in airports - if I want to spend money in airports, there are plenty of other ways... Yeah you could make expense GSM calls instead. Naturally you're much better off using WiFi when it's freely accessible, but of course if your device is intelligent enough it will seamlessly swap between the two, using WiFi when it's available and GSM when it's not (and vice versa), just as Truphone does. I want WiFI so that the Phone is a real part of my network, allowing Sync's Backups, move/consultation of files over standard smb:// protocol: safe, fast, secure, you choose what to share what not. I think the iPhone's got it right on this one. Using WiFi for syncing when you can use a cable/dock makes more sense to me battery wise. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
