Re: mxDateTime on Openmoko?

2008-12-13 Thread Steven Kurylo
 arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1': execvp: No
 such file or directory
 failure.


Do you have cpp and all the gcc related packages installed?

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Re: RESEND(Wrong Thread): IMAGE/MP3 licensing issue.

2008-11-13 Thread Steven Kurylo
 It's worth bearing in mind that Alcatel appear to own patents
 on MP3 too as they recently got US$1.5 billion in damages from
 Microsoft for infringement of them..

 http://ipgeek.blogspot.com/2007/02/you-thought-paying-sisvel-ended-your.html

The top google hit ( its over a year old) isn't always the best:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10051243-75.html

MS won the appeal on that case.

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Re: [OT] First rumors about first Google phone

2008-09-24 Thread Steven Kurylo
Even if the code is open, will the hardware be?  The hardware could
easily check if the software has been changed and then cut power.

Hopefully there will at least be some interesting bits to borrow.

On 9/24/08, Cédric Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 19:21, David Samblas
 any news about the real openess of android?

  first phone has just been announced to be released, and then the code
 should be open sourced :

 http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/09/announcing-android-10-sdk-release-1.html

 So what's next for us? Well, we'll keep working on the SDK, as I
 said. But we're also working hard with our partners in the Open
 Handset Alliance on the open-source release, with the aim of making
 the code available in the fourth quarter
 

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-- 
Steven Kurylo

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Re: SD slot + suspend

2008-09-02 Thread Steven Kurylo
If you search the list, this is discussed to death with several work arounds.

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Daniel Benoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've been having trouble with my SD card ever since I upgraded my kernel (with
 the unstable feed) and turned on suspend... specifically, it got wiped out :(
 Multiple times.  I don't know if it's a coincidence or now.. I wonder if
 someone who's brave and doesn't have important data on their card could try
 reproducing this?   Mount a partition and/or run something like
 badblocks /dev/mmcblk0 and then while that's going suspsend... and see if
 your data goes poof.

 Maybe it's just me.. possibly a defective SD card.

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Re: Please split this list!

2008-09-01 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:24 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I second that idea.
 Mainly because it is difficult to understand which context people are
 talking in... most people don't remember to say which distro they are
 using, and frankly I don't think they should have to...
 And it does make a big difference.
 Maybe keep this list as a distro-neutral list, and add new ones for
 OM2008.8, FSO, Debian, etc

Do you think since people are already not taking the time to add
details to their email, that they suddenly take the time send to the
proper list or tag their subject in some way?

The only thing you can really do it educate people on sending better
emails.  Any time you see a new message which doesn't provide relevant
details, let them know.  What distribution?  When did you last update?
 What is the version of the package in question?

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Re: GTA04

2008-08-29 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Alex Fitzpatrick
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yogiz wrote:
 known features of GTA04:
 - DBI (Direct Brain Interface)
 - trans warp gate projector
 - battery is replaced with a blackhole for infinite power
 - timemachine
 - build in stylus

 Ah, a stylus holder. Most excellent.

 Surely with the DBI the stylus is redundant? What kind of nonsense is
 this anyway?

Please, without a stylus, spare blackholes, and properly audio
couplers this this phone will never reach the mass market.  They're
must have features.  Not to mention it needs a pony too; no consumer
would accept a phone without these essential features.

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Re: Fourth Request: What is the warranty for the FreeRunner?

2008-08-27 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Lally Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 OM said that they were deciding on something beyond DOA.

 Also, Koolu doesn't offer a warranty (just the same 14/28 DOA
 warranty), and they're the only place you can get a FR in north
 america, so there's no help there.

I thought Steve's email was pretty clear, though its probably not what
you wanted to hear:

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-August/027044.html

They're working on policy.  I'm sure they'll announce it when its
ready.  In the mean time the policy is DOA.  If you have problems,
email Steve and he'll try to help.

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Re: ASU - out of memory?

2008-08-21 Thread Steven Kurylo
 And come on. Software is not perfect. Sometimes we have to live with a
 dreamteam like (old) firefox and x11. I had times when they had both
 hundreds of megs virtual mem. But everything was fine because it all was
 just harmlessly been swaped away. I restarted them every weekend to not
 let it become worse.
 Not ideal, but should the system rather be unusable in this condition?

You're assuming the system will be usable when an application
misbehaves and 50mb gets swapped out.  On a desktop, sure your points
are valid.

I'm not sure this is true on Freerunner.  None of the embedded systems
I've used have had swap.  What happens when you haven't received a
call for several hours and the application you're using forces it to
swap out?  Can you still answer a call in time?

I'd rather see a smart oom killer which will only kill non-essential
applications.  Adding 128mb of swap just pushes the problem back and
slows down the entire phone.

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Re: ASU - out of memory?

2008-08-21 Thread Steven Kurylo
 I'm not sure this is true on Freerunner.  None of the embedded systems
 I've used have had swap.
 Because they where really embedded.
 Openmoko is more or less a mobile desktop.

Its embedded because of the limited resources available to it.

 Slowing down is clearly better than instant crashing.
 How ever any early warning system for low memory looks, it can not
 guarantee it will be able to fix thing before mem runs out.
 This is also true with swap, but much much less probable.

 Can you answer al call? I don't know - probably.
 Besides, i can live with bad service while my phone is recovering from
 a nearby crash.
 And just imagine. Your phone is in a fragile low memory state, and a
 call comes in and the phone app needs to be launched.
 Everything great? Sure not.  No matter how.

The dialer app would be exempt from the killer.

There are two issues here.  First, you want a smart oom killer
regardless if you have swap or not.  Core services would never been
killed.

Secondly, is it better to have very slow swap to prolong oom killer
being launched?  You could do extensive testing to change my mind, but
I think swap is going to provide a horrible user experience.  Its
going to take forever to swap 50mb off the SD card.  I'd much rather
always have top speed and less applications running.

But really we can't even be sure there will be an SD card, so that
makes most of this moot.  Now a patch could be made to scan for swap
space on start up, so people like you who want it can insert an SD
card with swap defined.

As for an new oom killer, I think it should expose an file in sysfs.
We can then watch that file, if its 0 everything is ok.  If its 4,
we're running low on memory, less than 10%?,  and our daemon
monitoring this could send the user a popup telling them to close
something.  When there is less than 1%, the file changes to 9.  The
userspace daemon then kills a non critical service.  Something along
those lines, we need a kernel guy to let us know whats possible.

Or perhaps the sysfs file should be 0 for normal or 1 for start
killing.  Then leave it up to userspace daemon to figure out if we're
at send a pop up to the user stage.

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Re: Status of GTA3

2008-08-12 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Does anyone know the current developmentstate of the GTA03?
 I have read something about end of 2008. I wish but cant believe that this
 is true.
 Does anyone know mor details?

There are no details.  Anything you read is complete conjecture.

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Re: Any progress on the white screen of death problem?

2008-08-12 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Rorschach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,
 I think my FR with 2008.8 is nearly ready for daily usage. The only thing 
 which is stopping this, is the white screen of death problem. So when I 
 suspend for more than 5min or so I can't resume. It always just gives me a 
 blank white screen and I have to reboot. Is there any progress about this 
 problem? Some workaround or dev-patches?

Have you filed a bug?  Or looked for an existing one?

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Re: 2008 WTF??

2008-08-09 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Coverage of the FR gives one the impression that it's a phone for general
 use and not a development phone.  You have
 to look at the wiki before you find out the phone software isn't ready for
 primetime.


No one can control the coverage.  I do think they should put a large
warning on the ordering page that the software won't be stable,
possibly, for months.

 Yes, I agree, but people that bought one without knowing the full extent are
 going to be mad.  It's essentially a
 $400 mistakethe only real return policy stated is against the hardware
 being
 DOA and not buyer's regret.  With that being the case I think you really
 need to manage expectations of what's coming in the box.

I'm sure you could resell it at a very small loss quite easily.
Othewise, like a post products, there is no return policy.


 And we especially need to get rid of this Well FINE, go buy an IPHONE
 then! attitude.  It's not so much telling someone they'd
 be happier with an iphone as it the fact that one would imagine it being
 said in the same tone you would use to go tell someone to jump
 in a lake.

I only see that happening in threads that start out like this one:
very unhelpfully unconstructive criticisms, bordering on juvenile
bitching.  To be polite.

 I think managing expectations is the crucial part...even slashdot had a
 pretty lukewarm response to the FR, going by the comments.
 Most of the discussion I've seen around the web seems to focus on the
 preliminary state of the software rather than then openness of
 the phone.

I expected an expensive paper weight which will eventually replace my
blackberry.  Perhaps thats why I'm very happy with my FR.

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Re: What will be in GTA03?

2008-08-09 Thread Steven Kurylo
 4) My questions were pretty straightforward, mosty Y/N answers. A
 knowing user could answer them in 2-5 minutes if he wanted to.

Nothing has been decided on the future hardware revisions, so none of
your questions can be answered.

-- 
Steven Kurylo

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tangospg and 2008.8 - gui not drawing

2008-08-08 Thread Steven Kurylo
Hi,

I just installed the latest tangogps (0.9.2-r1) on 2008.8.  Several
GUI widgets aren't drawing properly, which were fine on other
distributions.

On the bottom left hand corner I see maps but none of the other tabs
to the right are shown, its black.  However if I tap in the black
area, the page loads properly (trip, config, etc).  If I'm on the trip
page, I can see the trip tab, but the rest are black.

On the map page, the fullscreen button on the top is cut off.  I
also can't see the autocenter button.

Is this happening to other people with 2008.8?

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Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?

2008-08-04 Thread Steven Kurylo
 I feel mislead by their marketing, which led me (and, from what I've been
 reading, many others) to think that the phone was actually ready for both
 developers AND regular folks. This, of course, is false, as it can't even
 connect to the internet *out of the box*, and requires a ridiculous degree
 of programming knowledge to even do so. (As a Java programmer with 10 years'
 experience, I've finally given up trying.)

I haven't seen anyone say the phone would be ready for regular user.
I tell people don't even expect to make reliable phone calls.

Though I think they should have put a big warning page during the
purchasing process before it takes your credit card, so no one would
have an excuse to complain.

Sorry that its not for you yet.

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Re: GSM detection/identification

2008-08-03 Thread Steven Kurylo
 And that the three operators I could see in my tests
 must all allow roaming on each others networks, which is why my T-Mobile
 SIM lets me see only those three. I should be able to see Verizon, US
 Cellular, and who knows what other operators from some of the places I
 tested, including my house.

I don't know why you'd ever expect to see CDMA carriers with a GSM phone.

You won't see Verizon or US Cellular or Sprint.

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Re: Main page change notification

2008-08-01 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Aaron Sowry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Brenda Wang wrote:
 Pretty good.
 I move the language template to the top.
 For those non-English native user , put it on the top will make them
 easy to access their language.


 Er... I just moved it back to the bottom before reading this email... sorry!

 I think changing from one language to another inside the page is
 actually a rare task, as bookmarks can be set directly to the language
 of choice. It also makes the page look less cluttered :)

Right but this is the main page which new users see first.  They need
to be able to select their language easily.  I can see having all
other pages have it on the bottom or not at all.  The main page should
have it on the top.  Many people don't speak english.

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Re: openmoko.org site problems

2008-08-01 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Doug Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Go to

 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/

 and try the links.  Some haven't been working lately, giving errors like:

Its always been like that.  You're just using firefox 3 now, and it
gives that error message to let you know its an untrusted SSL
certificate.

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Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue

2008-07-29 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 From everything I've heard a software only fix will not be enough.
 Unless you ditch your sd card as a data store.

 All new FR's have the HW fix and new software will be written to take
 advantage of that HW platform.

 The software fix alone allows you to get a fast TTFF but after that, sd
 card data transfers are just to noisy to maintain a high quality GPS
 data stream.  Yes it works but poorly, which is better than not at all.

I haven't had any problems with TTFF since the software update was
done.  In fact my impression from all the emails on the subject was
that the software fix was enough.

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Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue

2008-07-29 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Mike Hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 From everything I've heard a software only fix will not be enough.
 Unless you ditch your sd card as a data store.

 I haven't had any problems with TTFF since the software update was
 done.  In fact my impression from all the emails on the subject was
 that the software fix was enough.

 I think what he means, is that even though there is enough signal
 strength to provide a quick(er) First Fix, (or ANY fix at all in some
 cases) that if you are hammering the card for map data, the noise
 generated by the clock/data lines may cause reception errors resulting
 in a less-than-accurate position fix being maintained.

 I would take this to mean that your current location drifts from the
 actual spot to places not quite where you are standing.

And I don't see this when using my freerunner.  YMMV.

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Re: Got the same message three times

2008-07-28 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 10:22 AM, leonardo maccari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 arne anka wrote:
 I got three copies. Nothing against redundancy, but could the dear admin
 please take a look?


 +2

Open a ticket on the bug tracker and post the message headers of all
three messages.

There is no other way for them to help.

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Re: NeoFreerunner and MacOSX?

2008-07-25 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Ole Holm Frandsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 _Thank you_ very much, for the walk through McCreery. It seems thats
 it rather straight through to make it work . Now there is not much
 which is preventing me from buying the Phone. So thanks again.

 Is there a difference in perfomance with connecting it with OSX contra
 connecting it with a Linux-dist?  Just curious.

I find the osx usb driver to be quite flaky.  I think I have 10.4.  I
regularly have to reboot my macbook now, where as I used to go months
between reboots.

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Tangogps pre-cache?

2008-07-24 Thread Steven Kurylo
The tango gps documentation says Additionally you can conveniently
pre-cache areas.  Can anyone tell me how to do this?

I can scroll around and have those tiles cached for off line use, but
a pre-cache would be great.  Downloading all the OSM tiles and all the
zoom levels for a 20km radios would be excellent.


Thanks
-- 
Steven Kurylo

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Re: Tangogps pre-cache?

2008-07-24 Thread Steven Kurylo
 You can zoom out to encompass the area you want to download maps for.
 Then, give the map a single tap.  From the context menu, select 'map
 download'.  You can pick how many zoom levels in it should go.

When I do the single tap I only see:

friend...
point...
set position...

I don't see an option to download.  Original imagine updated today.  I
don't see anything to tell me what version of tangogps I'm running.  I
can check the cli later.

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Re: Tangogps pre-cache?

2008-07-24 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Bastian Feder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 HEy,
 which version oof Tangogps you are using? The one from the opkg
 repository? If so deinstall it and take the ipk- file from the
 Tangogps page.

Yes its from buildhost.openmoko.  I'll upgrade from the website, thanks.

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Re: Problem upgrading ncurses

2008-07-23 Thread Steven Kurylo
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg upgrade
 Upgrading ncurses on root from 5.4-r14 to 5.4-r15...
 Downloading
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/ncurses_5.4-r15_armv4t.ipk
 Collected errors:
  * Package ncurses wants to install file /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5
 But that file is already provided by package  * libncurses5

 This has persisted for at least the last 24 hours.  Is anyone else seeing
 this problem?

I had it.  I forcibly removed libncurses5 and everything is fine.
ncurses no longer depends on libncurses5.

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Re: HTML messages to mailing lists. Problem upgrading ncurses

2008-07-23 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Stroller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 24 Jul 2008, at 01:09, Dale Schumacher wrote:

 Also, could you possibly post to the list in plain text, not HTML?

 Sure, I could.  I thought it would be more clear to post the
 transcript in fixed font.  Doesn't it come through as multi-part-
 alternative anyway, so you should have a plain-text version too?
 It seems the richer markup is often useful.


 The fixed-width font you chose (courier new,monospace?) is
 honoured, but comes up as greyish on my mail client (Apple's Mail)
 and is difficult to read.

So it sounds the problem is with your client.  Tell your client,
assuming its a reasonable client, to only show plain text and not the
HTML.

The only argument to skip html is disk space/bandwidth which is rarely
an issue these days.

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Re: Rogers SIM (Canada) causing crash on Dialer

2008-07-23 Thread Steven Kurylo
I'm getting the same issue with my rogers sim.  Did you ever figure
anything out?  I have two sims which display the same issue.  The GUI
says I've registered (I even received some SMS messages) but the
dialer crashes.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m shell
libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc.
This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY

P
# # Read current opername
Our current operator is Rogers Wireless
nr
# Query network registration
registered (home network)
#
D250589
Dial 250589
RSTR=`OK'
EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN
EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: REJECT
EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: RELEASE
D+1250589
# Dial +1250589
RSTR=`OK'
EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: UNKNOWN
EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: REJECT
EVENT: Outgoing Call Progress: RELEASE


On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Sparrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Christopher,

I think my phone has registered with my provider, just not letting me
 dial out.  From running libgsmd-tool -m shell here is what I am
 getting:

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Upgrading issue: kernel-module-ext2

2008-07-23 Thread Steven Kurylo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg upgrade
Upgrading kernel-module-ext2 on root from 1:2.6.24+git20080424-r0 to
2:2.6.24+git20+287b292cf95edbd82dc63085ae5f0167a6e8141f-r0...
Collected errors:
 * ERROR: Package kernel-module-ext2 (parent kernel-module-ext2) is
not available from any configured src.
 * Failed to download kernel-module-ext2. Perhaps you need to run 'opkg update'?

I've run the update, this has been around for a couple days.  Is this
package important?
-- 
Steven Kurylo

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Re: Dot'n reply above quote

2008-07-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Not everyone uses a decent MUA! I use gmail, which does allow not
 filter on arbitrary headers. So I filter on TO and CC addresses.

Yes it does.

Has Words: listid:community.lists.openmoko.org

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Re: Ekiga for Openmoko, petition,

2008-07-18 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:01 PM, andres [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 As I feel anxious about running an extension of my asterisk in the
 Freerunner,

If your search the archives there is already an IAX client for asterisk.

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Re: Rules based policy engine

2008-07-17 Thread Steven Kurylo
 The problem with this is that one needs to think like a programmer to
 describe your ideal phone as a set of rules like these. Not only does
 one have to think analytically and dissect their concept into orthogonal,
 machine-checkable rules, but from your examples it's also clear that for
 such a wide range of possibilities a whole *language* with *expressions*
 (at least boolean) is necessary.

I see it as something like sieve.  Its a pretty full language for
writing rules.  I, as a programmer, I do almost anything I want.  For
the non-programmers there are various GUIs which allow you to do all
the simple tasks with a couple clicks.  In fact filter email is fairly
similar: if these three things are true, do X.  Then I have a stack of
rules and it goes through them one at time until one is true.

xpath might work.  There are a few options, though I would try to stay
away from writing our own if it can be helps.  A plan old python class
might be enough with function for each possible condition.

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Re: MokSec - The Security Framework

2008-07-14 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Kalle Happonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 arne anka wrote:
 wouldn't think it's too much. How often do you reboot the phone?


 with a battery uptime of about 8h -- at least once a day, because the fr
 usually silently shuts down.
 on weekends more frequently because i play around and something crashes or
 so.

 Well, this wasn't available now, was it? :). Since these are only plans,
 and afaik the powersave functionality will be vastly improved, that
 argument is hopefully invalid when the encryption is available.

And if you're not willing to have the inconvenience of a long password
on boot up, use an easier one.  You're slightly less secure, but still
more secure than having no encryption.

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Re: Number of GTA02s ordered as of 10 Jul 2008

2008-07-10 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Individual sales, worldwide
 ~300 x 1  = 300

 Jeffries' wild ass guess: Total GTA02 ordered = 750 +/- 250

 My gut says OpenMoko first mass production run was approx
 1,000 to 1,500.

I think you're pretty low.  In another thread someone said their OM
store tracking number was 1087.  Mine is in the 1600s.  While there
are some assumptions there, it strongly indecates they've shipped 600
from their store alone.

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Re: Number of GTA02s ordered as of 10 Jul 2008

2008-07-10 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Matt Luzum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Steven Kurylo wrote:
 I think you're pretty low.  In another thread someone said their OM
 store tracking number was 1087.  Mine is in the 1600s.  While there
 are some assumptions there, it strongly indecates they've shipped 600
 from their store alone.

 Also note that presumably the 10-packs are each only assigned 1 order
 number, so those 600 order numbers represent more than 600 phones.

 Out of curiosity, how long ago did you place your order (with order
 number in the 1600s)?

My order was placed on the 3rd.  No tracking number yet.

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Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?

2008-07-06 Thread Steven Kurylo
 I can confirm this behaviour with both my 3G sim cards (one from e-plus
 and one from o2). The sim entered is definitely correct and works like
 a charm in my nokia phone.

Which behavoir?  cme error: 3 from the original post or the more
recent cme error: 32?

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Re: Shipping to canada...

2008-07-06 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Dave O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 No ten packs :/

Although I've heard of Andrew Greig before, the koolu website doesn't
inspire confidence in me.  I wouldn't trust them with my money.

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Re: Shipping to canada...

2008-07-05 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Taxes apply, duty might, and the couriers all may charge brokerage
 fees.  UPS really sucks in this regard.
 One of the members of the group has offered to do the paperwork, so no
 brokerage fees.

For a single phone the fees are $50.  However if you chose the more
expense shipping method from openmoko, $50 extra, you don't pay the
fees.

http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html

So in the end its the same amount of money, but you get your phone much faster.

There will be GST, but I don't know what duties their may be.

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Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?

2008-07-05 Thread Steven Kurylo
 now, I got some more infos, but it still doesn't work.
 Today I was on an O2 shop, too. They gave me a NEW SIMCARD and I tried it.
 Same again. It doesn't want my pin.
 I asked the man in the shop and he called someone, after this, he said that
 it is the newest simcard they have.
 So: Get a newer simcard is NO solution.

Actually if you look at your AT output, you're now getting error 32
which is Network not allowed, emergency calls only.  I'm no gsm
expert, but my first thought is that O2 didn't activate the new sim
card.  Try the new sim card in a different phone?  Or double check
with O2 that the new sim card has been activated.

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Re: Openmoko Webshop Reopen NOW!!!

2008-07-04 Thread Steven Kurylo
 As I really wanted to get the phone, I didn't mess around with NAT
 settings to see exactly what was causing the issue, but I'm happy to do
 further testing.

It worked fine from behind my NAT.

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Re: Vote! Zimbra Mobile on the Openmoko

2008-06-24 Thread Steven Kurylo
 1. Is this FLOSS ?
 I think it is not FLOSS:(

Its not clear.  I think this is the Rich J2ME Client app, which is FLOSS.

At the very bottom:
http://www.zimbra.com/products/product_editions.html

 Sorry, nobody wants this on a smartphone. Why implement features that we
 100% need on the platform anyways.
 And you have seen that they are talking about J2ME?..

I would want this option on my smart phone.  I'm not sure if I would
use it, but definitely having the possibility of showing an
alternative to Exchange+blackberry is always a good thing.

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Re: Duplicate Message

2008-06-21 Thread Steven Kurylo

 Could be that something in the delivery process (e.g. spamassassin)
 is taking too much time and the remote host times out

Thats a possibility, though they aren't adding any spamassassin
headers to the messages.  I don't know who administers the OM servers,
but maybe they'll chime in.

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Re: Duplicate Message

2008-06-21 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Well, I am seeing spamassassin headers... For instance, from your
 message:

 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on
sita.openmoko.org
 X-Spam-Level:
 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0
 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_RFC_POST
autolearn=no version=3.1.7-deb

 Don't you get these headers?

I was looking at the headers they had attached previously, I guess
they removed the SA ones.  When I look at the messages in my inbox, I
do see them.

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Re: Map Overlay OF Wiki

2008-06-20 Thread Steven Kurylo
 btw: i got this mail twice as it happens with some others, too. not all
 and not often but sometimes there are a few.

Post the message headers, preferably to the bug tracker.  Otherwise
nothing can ever be done.

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Re: Duplicate Message

2008-06-20 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Post the message headers, preferably to the bug tracker.  Otherwise
 nothing can ever be done.

 I got the message twice, too.

 The headers are attached.

While it appear the user sent the message once (same message ID and
first received line), the google http server (10.151.60.2) sent two
copies 27 seconds apart.  There is nothing openmoko can do about this.

It would be interesting to know if all the duplicate messages came
from users using gmail.

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Re: Duplicate Message

2008-06-20 Thread Steven Kurylo
 after scanning my inbox (since 3. jul) -- most.
 though, not all mails from a gmail account get sent (received?) twice and
 not every mail from such an account.
 i found one mail from cc.helsinki.fi and one from hotmail.com.
 cc.helsinki.fi:

In both your posted cases, cc.helsinki.fi and hotmail.com sent the
message twice to openmoko.  Nothing we can do.  There is a possibility
that openmoko dropped the connection or issued a 4xx code, but still
delivered the initial message.  In those cases the sending server
would retry, creating two copies of the message.  But that would be a
pretty bad bug in exim and I can't image how they could mis-configure
exim to do this.

That couldn't be the case in the previous gmail headers I looked at.
The message was duplicated while still in the gmail network.

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Re: Delay is getting worse...

2008-06-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
You need to post the message headers for anyone to be able to do
anything about it.  I believe there was a request to send them to the
bug tracker.


On 6/19/08, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It is 13:41 here in Mexico City, and the last
 mail I got from the list arrived at 5:23, it is
 from DR. H. Nikolaus Schaller. (Re: Why not use
 forum)

 I check this box at leas once an hour and I can
 tell this is not good. I've been in this list for
 a while and I used to get the messages as soon as
 posted. Pleas, do somehing about it. Even my own
 mails get at least two hours after I send them.

 Thanks

 Kosa

 - Un mundo mejor es posible -

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Re: Delay is getting worse...

2008-06-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
Here it is:

 Received: from sita.openmoko.org (sita.openmoko.org [88.198.124.203])
by circe.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C2133F5B
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:25:10 +0200 (CEST)
 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=sita.openmoko.org)
by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
(envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED])
id 1K9PGp-0007oW-Td; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:54:07 +0200

The message is recieved by openmoko at 20:54:07 +0200, but doesn't
forward it along until 22:25:10 +0200.

You should file a bug report to ensure someone looks into it.

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Re: openmoko and pci express voice modems

2008-06-17 Thread Steven Kurylo
 What I am really trying to do is to have as close to an all in one
 convergence as possible.
 So take a small EEEPC like laptop, put the voice modem into it and there you
 have it ... phone, music player, video player, upgradeable memory, a mini
 computer with full QWERTY keys and so on ...

So what you're really asking is if the openmoko software can run on
your laptop, and use that card to make phone calls instead of GTA
hardware.

I would assume no and I'm not sure why you'd want to do it that way.
If that card is supported under linux, I'm sure there is better
support for it with desktop applications.  But this list wouldn't be
the place to ask.

 Is it perhaps simpler to connect an openmoko device to a mini laptop ? Is it
 possible to route openmoko device audio through a laptop?

You should be able to have your laptop present itself has a bluetooth
headset to the Freerunner.   I have no idea if someone has written
software to do that though.

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Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

2008-06-14 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Since phone is already being produced in factory does anyone has some
 estimated date when ordinary people could buy this phone?

No one has any idea.  Personally I'm expecting mid July.

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

2008-06-07 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:06:16 +0300 Flyin_bbb8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 actually - no. most linux developers and users i know need contacts/glasses 
 and
 they can never read my screen and complain about my fonts being so small all
 the time (not that i will ever change. i love my small fonts!), but i ma going
 off anecdotal evidence over many years of me being one of a very small 
 minority
 who can read and use such a high dpi with small fonts. i am bemused by so many
 vocal people here claiming to me what seems to be the reverse of my experience
 over many years - as well as going directly against actual product specs - eg,
 iphone dpi is very much lower than the neo, but a large margin, but users rave
 how nice it is.


Without being able to see them side by side I'm always going to want
the higher spec.

I have my blackberry 7130g set to the smallest font size available and
wish it could go smaller.  I think the screen is 240 x 260, 2.4.
However most other people have trouble reading my bb, so I'm willing
to say I'm in the minority.

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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

2008-06-03 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Google does contribute to various open source projects, but they sure as
 hell don't seem to drink the punch.

 Thanks for the info, that completely defines my view of Android.

The kernel still uses the GPL, so they have to respect that.  However
the new hardware drivers could be done the same way nvidia does it.

They said their custom software will all use the apache license.  So a
phone carrier could take the software stack, close the source, and add
their custom bits on top leaving you with a system thats just as
closed as the current phones.  It will be interesting to see what
happens.

 And they use WINE to run android dev stuff on linux?  My god - that
 beggars the imagination.

I think he's talking about other applications.  I think picasa uses wine.

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Re: possibility to purchase a moko before beginning of July

2008-06-02 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Just out of curiosity, I'm going on Vacation in July and I was wondering
 about how to snag one.

Not even two hours ago Steve sent an update on production status.

  Will access be via distributors/resellers,
 online store or some other method?

 Should I be getting in touch with local resellers and setting up some
 sort of handoff plan so I can snag one even if it's just in the nick of
 time for my flight?

That completely depends on what country you're in.

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Re: possibility to purchase a moko before beginning of July

2008-06-02 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Cool, I'm in Vancouver Canada.  I guess considering Taiwan is a Pacific
 coast neighbour some might actually get shipped through our port.  For
 Canadians, will it make more sense to order online or look for a
 distributor?

Far as I know you can either order it from California when the web
store goes online or join the 10 pack purchase.

The current 10 pack seems to be full now, so you'd have to start a new
one: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#British_Columbia

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Re: silence (re mass production status) is deafening

2008-05-28 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 (I am not complaining, just sayin'...)

 We're not hearing much about the status of production
 for Freerunner. From available bits of info, I deduce:

Only a week ago there was a thread Whats up with the freerunner mass
production?.  I'd hardly call that a lack of communication.

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Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions

2008-05-20 Thread Steven Kurylo
 I'd still very much like to see a way to turn it off, so it works the same
 for letters as for numbers. It's annoying 90% of the time because most of
 the person or street names I need to enter into Contacts are not going to be
 listed.  I promise not to write my next 850-page book on my Neo, so word
 lookup is of limited use.  I suspect that Contacts, Todo and Calendar is the
 most common use case for most people, and that writing normal text is the
 least common for most people.
 I think I will write further more SMS than saving contacts. And the texts in
 calendar are not this long, at least in mine.

My current phone changes the keyboard type based on context.  If
you're typing into a password field, it doesn't try to predict.  Same
with an email address field.  But for the message body it becomes
predictive.  It also adds words to its dictionary from the current
context - words you've already typed which weren't in the dictionary,
or words in the message you're replying to.  Also if you use a word
multiple times it eventually adds it to the dictionary.

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Re: GPRS IP Networking

2008-05-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Brandon Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Either way, you could write a simple program on the phone to keep connecting
 to an end point (server) and give the server reverse access (stunnel) back
 to the device.

Yeah, thats what I was hoping to avoid :-)

I was thinking of looking at the cost savings of implementing a mail
push system versus imap idle.  The server would push important mails,
but otherwise my client wouldn't check unless I asked it too.
Obviously the break even point depends on how many messages you get an
hour.

Though around here incoming SMS are free, so I could push that way...

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Re: picking up voicemail

2008-05-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There ought to be a specialization of Dialer to be able to type your
 voicemail password without having it echo, switchable dynamically.

 Just an idea - my son was complaining that his cheap Nokia didn't have
 such a feature, so I figured that OpenMoko should

And it should save the password, so you don't have to type it each time.

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Re: picking up voicemail

2008-05-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Steven Milburn
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hmmm, the two would seem to counteract each other. (not displaying, but
 remembering it for you)


Not at all.  When I enter a password in my blackberry, it shows the
character for a second, then puts in a *.  This stops me from
mistyping it and stops shoulder surfing.  For the voicemail, there is
an option where I give it my pin to remember.  Then when I dial
voicemail, it calls, pauses for a few seconds, then does the password.

If you normally dial digits after the phone number, I wouldn't expect
it to remember.  That would be silly, it wouldn't know what it was
saving.

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Re: GPRS IP Networking

2008-05-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Erm, you say that SMS is free, or at-least receiving them is. Maybe if you
 could implement such an application, you could get your server to SMS your
 phone when you have important messages with a special trigger code, and then
 you're phone would connect and download the messages?
 Not sure if this is possible, or if it would be cheaper / waste of time...
 But if you were going with text messages, it'd be expensive to fit anything
 more than a small message on?

Yes, I was thinking I'd put a filter on my imap server which would
send an SMS when messages come in.  When the phone receives the SMS it
would check for new mail.  It had crossed my mind to stuff message
headers into the sms too.  Then you could decide if its worth
downloading the full message over gprs.

I just have a bunch of ideas in my head, though it does look like I
might have to make a imap client first as I don't see on yet :-)



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Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?

2008-05-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:

 Well, I much appreciate your work and your openness with community,
 unfortunately I can't say the same about Openmoko in this occasion since
 this should be an Open company and so I'd have appreciated it more if the
 decision would have been debated before with developers and active part of
 community (= people writing code) in public lists.

 I guess the question is whether Openmoko Inc. ever promised that the
 contents of the rootfs for the phone that they sell will be determined by
 some sort of community consensus.

 If I remember correctly, they only promised to provide an open software
 platform upon which *you* can create your own personalised rootfs.  By
 including both toolkits, they have not changed anything you experience with
 respect to this promise.

And you'd end up arguing about the colour of the bike shed none stop.
Some decisions openmoko just needs make to deliver us a phone.


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Re: GPRS IP Networking

2008-05-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What about the Email-Push-Service. I don't know if this is provider
 specific. T-Mobile Germany offers this service for about 5 €/month with free
 transfer. I don't know how it works, but the name makes me think, the
 provider pushes the mail to the phone.
 Any ideas?

If they're doing NAT pools, I'm sure they have a server on the inside
of the NAT.  So they would poll your mail for you, then they can reach
the phone directly for the push.  Blackberry has this feature -
they'll log into my pop/imap account and push the email to the
handheld.

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GPRS IP Networking

2008-05-18 Thread Steven Kurylo
Does someone know how IP addresses are handed out on the cellular
network?  Do they give each phone an IP address, or do they do NAT?  I
want to know if I'll be able to connect to my freerunner over GPRS,
say I wanted to ssh into it.

I've been searching the internet and haven't found an answer.  I
connected to my website with my blackberry and saw different IP
addresses for different requests; makes me think they have an outgoing
NAT pool.  Of course this could also be carrier dependent.

Thanks.

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Re: Another little question about Group sales to steve

2008-05-16 Thread Steven Kurylo
 I just wondering about one little thing steve.
 Is the definition  *10 pack* for only 10 persons, or can a 10 pack also be
 over 10??

 Example: Here in Norway we have started a group sale for Norway. And the
 chance that we are going to be 10, 20, 30, etc. persons is slim.
 So can we buy a *10 pack* when we are 12?

 Or is it only 10, 20, 30, etc groups that can get the extra stuff?

It has been posted many many times to the list that its 10 packs only.
 10,20,30.  Not 12.

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Re: Wireless Cracking / Hacking on the FreeRunner

2008-05-16 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Brandon Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thank You!

 And it is the Atheros Chipset, so I will be able to do everything. :)

There is an email from Andy Green in March saying says we don't have
monitor mode, which I think means no promiscuous mode.

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Re: IAX2/Asterisk + Openmoko FreeRunner

2008-05-15 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Brandon Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The goal of this project is to seamlessly tie into the openmoko dialer
 application as a 'gateway', so that you could chose to dial out over GSM or
 dial out over IAX2 (wifi, possibly GPRS).

 If you would like to help in the project, just send me an email. I would
 love some feedback/suggestions on the project.

What kind of help are you looking for?

When I get a freerunner I'll definitely want to do iax to my asterisk server.

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Re: Freerunner games

2008-05-13 Thread Steven Kurylo
Are we going to be able to use the accelerometers for any of these games?

The wiki says 
(http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals#Results)
that For gentle twisting and turning, the differential accelerations
are impossible to tell from noise.  To me that means rocking the neo
around for these won't work.

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 3:41 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ya etch a sketch was one that we have talked about.
  Too many ideas,





  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
  Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:19 PM
  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
  Subject: Re: Freerunner games

  +1 for both of these. I can see Snake like this being quite exciting.

  I will award a t-shirt for a decent implementation of either of these.
  Same for the Labyrinth game.

  Start coding. You'll be getting your Freerunners soon(ish)*

  Michael

  * for some definition of soon

  Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
   Etch-a-sketch using accelerometers would rock
  
   the classic Snake game would also be and cool
   with these controls
  
  
   --
   Ron K. Jeffries
   http://blog.eronj.com
  
  
  
  
   
  
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Re: Freerunner games

2008-05-13 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Al Johnson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Perhaps this is a case of the explanation making perfect
  sense to someone who already has experience in the subject, but not to those
  that don't. Any suggestions as to which bits need a better explanation?

I took the results section to be a conclusion.  So despite saying some
positive things at the start, I took the results section with its
pessimistic outlook to be the final word.  Reading it your way makes
sense now.

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Re: Software

2008-05-06 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ryan Prior wrote:

  Perhaps phone-cron needs to be written, to take anacron to the level of
 task flexibility required for modern cell phones. Cron and anacron are
 crusty old beasts - we need something fresh and sharp.
 

  Talking with dbus too...

I don't know the power difference, but if I have a scheduled alarm and
I turn my blackberry off it asks if it should be really off or off and
wake up for the alarm.

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Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)

2008-05-01 Thread Steven Kurylo
  Openmoko guys! Can you give us the specs so that those interested in
  bulk purchases can figure out the logistics of shipping versus
  individual sales and then factor that into the regions that will be
  used to organize bulk purchases?

If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you
could do this.

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Re: Shipping questions, customer organized distribution in Europe

2008-04-28 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Could you offer shipping by the US Postal Service? Looking at their website,
 I see that for instance, they have a service called 'Express Mail
 International' that would cost $28 for a single phone, with a delivery time
 in 6 days to Sweden, and a service called 'Priority Mail International'
 which would cost $19 for delivery in 6-10 days.

I would really like the option to use the USPS instead of UPS.  UPS
charges much higher brokerage fees to bring a package into Canada
compared to the USPS.

Thank you.
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Re: Shipping questions, customer organized distribution in Europe

2008-04-28 Thread Steven Kurylo
   I would really like the option to use the USPS instead of UPS.  UPS
   charges much higher brokerage fees to bring a package into Canada
   compared to the USPS.
  
   Thank you.

  Steven,

  Where are you in Canada?

I am in Victoria.

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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Steven Kurylo
  I would like to see the pouch in the package, too :(
 

 Que but the majority of users never use a pouch and you'd be better off
 using a $30 iPod sock responses.

Who would say suchs things?

Of course I think you *MUST* fit a pony in the box.  The freerunner
will never be popular without a pony.  I got a pony with my last phone
and everyone wants a pony!  Also you can get much cheaper ponies in
Asia then I can around here.  So those who don´t want a pony can throw
it in the bin or turn it into dinner.

Also buying a non-openmoko pony just isn´t the same thing.  Even if I
can use the openmoko logo to brand the pony myself...

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread Steven Kurylo
  A headset is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to me.

  I need to be able to talk whilst I drive sometimes.

  Of course, if you make it an optional accessory I will (reluctantly) pay
 extra to purchase it, but a headset has been included in my last 3 phone
 purchases.

You do realize the cost of the headset would be included in the phone
right?  So its either we pay more for a neo, and everyone gets a
headset they might throw into the bin, or everyone pays less for a neo
and those people who need a new headset can buy one.

When you're neo arrived take it to the store.  After showing them how
cool it is, try a few headsets out and buy the one you want.

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Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?

2008-04-07 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:00 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 First off, this is by no means official in any way. Vote on [1] if you
  _think_ 3G is essential for a successor to FreeRunner

I'll miss Edge when I swap my blackberry for the FreeRunner.  Wifi
will hopefully mean I won't notice.

Either way I still want UMTS in the next version.  If the next version
doesn't have UMTS, I don't know what it could offer which would make
me upgrade, short of my old one wearing out.

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Hardware update

2008-04-07 Thread Steven Kurylo
  PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the
 next few days.

A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass
producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time.

Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few
months for the second version?

Thank you.
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Re: Hardware update

2008-04-07 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Alexander Frøyseth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Soo 400/500 MHz is no more?

I think you're confusing concepts.  We're talking cellular bands.  Are
you talking 400/500 cpu frequency?

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Re: Loosing your moko

2008-04-03 Thread Steven Kurylo
  I thought about the risk of loosing the moko or of getting it stolen...
 
  I got the following idea:
  If you can't find you moko, you only have to send an SMS with a special
 keyword/passphrase to your moko.
  It recognises the special text and sends the current coordinates to a
 server. So you can see it's position.
 

  Hehe...sounds fun.

The real fun is when you ssh in to wipe the contents and set the
battery to always fast charge so the new owner gets some surprises
when they plug it into their charger...

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Re: Additional info

2008-03-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Nicanor Babula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It will be a long life cellphone? Or will it just be some fragile geek
  toy to use with care? My reference points are Motorola Motoming and
  Nokia N800 (both have touchscreen and linux).

If you search the archives this has been brought up many times.  They
keep on making improvements to the software, but IIRC so far its a
week on standby.  I don't recall what the current talk time was (with
everything off but the gsm).

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Re: Neo Freerunner manufacturing status

2008-03-19 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The Freerunner design is currently staged to go through Production
  Validation Test (PVT). The hardware design A5 is, we believe, solid. We
  are updating this design to A6 to maximize production yields.

Something that I haven't seen (and looking through the archives I
can't find an update for) is what bands is this version going to use?
Is it the 900 and the 850 will come out at some indeterminate time
afterwards?

Or will you be producing both the 850 and the 900 right now?

Thank you
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Re: Idea of a voice mail application

2008-02-29 Thread Steven Kurylo
  Nope, for all EU countries i know about, this is absolutely no difference. 
 You
  pay for a call to provider side voicebox as you do for a straight call.

Interesting.  On my Rogers (Canada) phone, I don't pay for them to
leave messages.  I also don't pay to check my messages.  In fact the
number to pickup messages is long distance!

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Re: FAX2PDF with OpenMoko?

2008-02-26 Thread Steven Kurylo
  yep, instead one should start to see printers with a built in mailing system
  so that one could assign a mail address to it, and have it auto-print said
  mail, complete with attachments of it came in pdf or odf...

I thought they all did these days.  I haven't seen a new copier at an
office in the last several years that didn't support printing received
email (SMTP, POP, IMAP) and emailing (SMTP) anything it scanned.

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Re: How Alice and Bob got telephone/SMS spam on their Moko.

2008-02-25 Thread Steven Kurylo
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Heikki Sørum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi everyone! Today I got another proposal for useful
  applications that would make an open mobile outshine
  oldsch00l mobiles.

While I've never thought of taking it that far, this is one of the
prime reasons I will be getting an OM.  Most phones have very limited
inbound call rules.  I'll setup certain phone numbers to always ring
the phone, only allow unknown numbers to ring the phone during certain
times, etc.

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Re: Patents and OpenMoko

2008-02-11 Thread Steven Kurylo
 Would you explain?  because this is very commonly believed: if you
 don't defend the patent you will lose it.  Just depends how this
 phrase defend the patent is defined I guess...

It differs in jurisdictions, but what most people confuse it trademark
and patents.  You can lose a trademark if you don't defend it.
A starting point for research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_dilution

Also you can lose your patent if you don't implement it, which is
complete different from dilution but easy to confuse.

 What kind of protection is offered by the patent commons?  How can a
 mere agreement among the parties involved (if there were any lawsuit
 about a breach thereof, it would be a civil suit) be stronger than the
 patent law itself, which specifies the rights of the patent owner to
 license the patent and collect royalties, or to sue for infringement?
 I trust that some lawyers have thought this through pretty thoroughly
 by now, but it hasn't been tested, right?

I have no idea if there is case law.  It would be governed by
applicable contract law and what was actually agreed to...

http://www.patentcommons.org/resources/about_commitments.php#type

By making a Commitment, a Contributor gives permission for others to
engage in activities it could otherwise prevent, or for which the
Contributor could collect damages or royalties. Courts have concluded
it is unfair and inequitable for Contributors to encourage others to
rely on their promise they will not enforce their patents and then sue
them for infringement for doing so

Sounds like there might be some case law there already.

 I suspect you are right about this, but there really are credibility
 problems with software patents in general... they clearly suck, and
 many developers are in denial, and waiting for them to be finally
 disallowed by the gov't.  But then again, that might never happen; and
 even if it did, would the existing software patents be thrown out, or
 grandfathered?  It is hard to predict the future, especially ahead of
 time.  Probably the large corporate special interests will get
 whatever they want, in the end.

I agree.  The situation is a mess.  Just like the GPL is copyleft,
hopefully the patent commons will become the same thing: patent
everything we can and grant everyone the right to use it.
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Re: Patents and OpenMoko

2008-02-11 Thread Steven Kurylo
 From what I know especially in the US patent system you are *forced* to
 actively defend your patent, i.e. if you get to know that someone uses
 your patent and is not paying you roayalties (or you get an alternative
 commercial advantage like cross licensing) you have to sue him. If you
 do not do so the patent can be revoked.

No.

 And you have to collect royalties since the patent system only cares
 about businesses, i.e. the sole purpose of patents is to make money from
 it. Not using it to make money by either sublicensing or self-use of the
 IP will constitue non active use of the patent and is also a reason for
 revocation.

No.

 So even if you have the intend of not sueing you might be forced to
 either sue others and/or collect license fees.
 The expressed intend not to make money from the patent could already be
 a reason for not accepting it.

No.

 So imagine someone else using the OpenMoko software on another device
 with some of your patented parts in it. You would be forced to sue this
 person/company/whatever.
 This is not what we you/we want.

No.

 But as always: IANAL.

Indeed :-)

 Starting to collect software patents would contradict your own claim of
 openness and support of free software.

Not at all.

 Speaking as community guy I would say that with the software patents you
 would have to sign and publish a non-revocable community contract that
 sais quite explicitely for which use you would accept royaltee free use
 and of which patents. Only then the community would be safe. Else, at
 some later point in time, someone at OpenMoko/FIC might change their
 mind and try to make money from the patents.

Definitely and thats what the patent commons are for.

 Oh, and it just occurred to me...
 AFAIK GPL V3 explicitely forbids software patents on GPLed code, does it?

No it doesn't.
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#v3PatentRetaliation

If they patent software, and release that software under GPL3, they
can't sue users of that software for patent infringement.

 But please do not consider software patents at any time! You will
 instantly loose your credibility in the open source world.

Not at all.  If they don't patent it, someone else will; then you're
in real trouble.  Its a broken system, but its one they have to work
with.  Sure you can point to prior art if someone else patents it -
but challenging a patent costs money.  Usually more than the cost of
the patent in the first place.

As long as they pledge the patents to the community, which from the
original email is their goal, there is nothing wrong with getting
patents.

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