Re: Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)

2008-01-12 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:

And we want the matrix screensaver too. :-)


And it can't run down the batteries...

:')


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Re: Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)

2008-01-12 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:

Well I guess you just can't please everyone :/


Sure you can - put a switch in the phone's advanced preferences!   :')

Anyway, I have always felt that with a little dress-up, the verbose  
startup could become reassuring rather than alarming.   The reason  
it's alarming is mostly that it just sits there saying nothing  
intelligible to the end-user.   If it said things like probing for  
Atheros ethernet device...   found. or configuring network... then  
the end user might be less alarmed.   If you don't know any better  
though I think it looks too much like a Windows crash, to which old- 
timers are too painfully accustomed.



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Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)

2008-01-11 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote:
  I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article.  
A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the  
repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible.


I thought that was weird.   The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts!


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Re: Subject prefix for e-mails

2007-12-27 Thread Ted Lemon

On Dec 27, 2007, at 11:24 AM, Colan Schwartz wrote:
Would it be possible to add a descriptive prefix to each e-mail sent  
to

this list?  I don't mind getting a lot of e-mail, but if it's from a
list, I'd like to know where it's coming from.


Suggestion: hack your tool to sort on the List-Id: header.   Redundant  
sorting info in the subject line is unnecessary, and also makes it  
harder yo see the entire subject line.



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Re: Michael Shiloh interview on The Linux Link Tech Show

2007-11-29 Thread Ted Lemon

On Nov 29, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Ben Burdette wrote:
I was relieved to hear that 850 mhz seems to be a sure thing -  
according to the interview there will be two versions of the phone,  
one for the US (or other 850mhz countries) and one for the rest of  
the world.  I assume the US version will be delayed compared to the  
900mhz version, but still great its news.


Oof.   Personally, even though I live in the U.S. I'd probably rather  
have a 900MHz phone than an 850MHz phone because I can get pretty good  
coverage here even without 850MHz, whereas in Europe it's going to be  
difficult for me to know in advance whether or not a particular SIM  
card I might buy at the airport will work well for me without 900MHz  
coverage.


I guess it's probably impossible for the GTA02, but quad band really  
is a key feature.



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Re: Use Neo w/out removing from pocket (was: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement)

2007-11-19 Thread Ted Lemon
On Mon, 2007-11-19 at 10:35 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
 What sort of applications make sense 
 this way? What sort of new applications does this allow?

I think the two big killer apps are laptop replacement and watching
video.   But that's going to require hardware acceleration.

Long term, you can imagine using something like this as a HUD, but I
don't know if that's actually going to see any use - we won't know until
someone tries to sell one and we see if people are actually willing to
look that silly.

I think running something like this without wires is way in the future,
but I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong.   The trouble with
wireless is power consumption for a high-bandwidth video signal.



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Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement

2007-11-17 Thread Ted Lemon
On Sat, 2007-11-17 at 10:11 +0100, Andraž 'ruskie' Levstik wrote:
 Why not a laptop chassis

The laptop form factor forces poor ergonomics.   I always bring a
keyboard with me when I travel so that I can have the screen up high and
the keyboard down low.   So for me the built-in keyboard is just wasted
space.   And when you take that and the CPU out, all you're really left
with is the TFT.

The really great thing about the TFT is that because it doesn't have the
crown jewels on it (your data!), you can put it in luggage and check it,
and the worst that happens on the other end is that you have to get a
replacement if someone stole it.   Checking a laptop isn't such a
fortunate plan.



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Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement

2007-11-17 Thread Ted Lemon
On Sat, 2007-11-17 at 09:29 +, Andy Powell wrote:
 If I can manage to push aside the feeling that people should just buy 
 something like the Asus EEE PC rather than going this route... 

No bluetooth.   No DVI out.   Doesn't fit in your pocket, unless you
have a really big pocket.



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Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement

2007-11-17 Thread Ted Lemon
On Sat, 2007-11-17 at 11:19 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
 I'd like to explore adding a head mounted display to the Neo, like the
 i-glasses PC/SVGA Head Mounted Display at about $700. Would require
 an 
 off-board SVGA controller, which could be prototyped with a USB SVGA 
 controller, assuming Linux drivers can be found.

I think when you add all the pieces together, this isn't going to be a
cost-effective solution, and it's not going to perform well either.
Head mounted displays need to get higher resolution before they're worth
the money.   What's the point of having a six-foot-tall screen in your
visual field if it's only 640x480?   And having direct access to the
frame buffer makes a big difference in performance.

I like the way you're thinking, though - if it were possible to get
WUXGA glasses, that would completely solve the portable display problem.
And I don't think it's out of the question - it's just too soon.   The
parts you'd need to make one are only just becoming available.   But
it's with this in mind that I mention the DVI output - you really don't
want to plug VGA into a display like that.



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Re: Harald LaF0rge Welte: Leaving OpenMoko...

2007-11-16 Thread Ted Lemon
On Fri, 2007-11-16 at 09:22 -0500, Kyle Bassett wrote:
 as the shit starts to hit the fan...

Oh, stop it.   Harald has been saying he's been having difficulty for a
while.   Maybe this is systemic, and maybe it's not, but there's no
reason to side with chaos.   Why not hope for the best, and give what
support you can so that the best is the actual outcome?

Harald, so long and thanks for all the fish.   It's been good having you
here.



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Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement

2007-11-15 Thread Ted Lemon
On Thu, 2007-11-15 at 23:11 +0100, Erland Lewin wrote:
 I imagine a kit the size of a regular book for the Neo containing a
 fresnel lens with a frame for attaching to the phone, a foldable
 keyboard, a small mouse, and a battery pack loadable with, say, 2
 regular 'C' size batteries.

The keyboard needs to be an old manual typewriterkeyboard, and the UI
should be white on black for maximum compatibility with Brazil.

Seriously, though, I think this is a cool idea, but once you have a
proper focusing system it's probably not going to be lighter than a
laptop, so what's the point.

What I'd like to see is someone (FIC?) making a computer *like* the Neo
that's a real laptop replacement.   1Ghz ARM, DVI out, 640x480 screen
just like what we have in the Neo, runs slow when it's on batteries,
fast when it's plugged in, a couple gigabytes of flash, an external hard
drive for when you're near power, and Bob's your uncle.

You can pack a monitor in your luggage when you travel, and have a nice
setup wherever you land.   It would fit in your pocket when you're
flying, but be powerful enough to actually use when you arrive.   It
could be a bit bigger than the Neo, and if it had a GSM modem and GPS in
it, it'd double as a phone.   Neo's big brother, you might say.



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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

2007-11-08 Thread Ted Lemon
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 03:44 +0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
 (Same problem with Global Locate regarding the GPS driver)

It might be nice to just send out the old module, even if it
theoretically isn't useful, because somebody might be willing to hack it
to make it work.   Right now we have nothing.

On the topic of 850 MHz, it is a problem that it's not supported.   It's
early days, so I don't care about it for the current phone - I can get
by without it.   But I'd like to hear if there are serious plans to add
this band to a future revision of the phone, or whether this is simply
not possible.

Even if you have a build option for 850 vs. 900, that's not a good
solution - I want a phone that works everywhere, not a phone that works
everywhere close to me.   So I hope that this is something that can
happen with a future revision of the phone, even if it's not the very
next revision.

I'm not expecting a quick answer on this - just wanted to state my
personal concerns on this, which I think are mirrored by a few other
Western Hemispheroids on the list.



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Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives

2007-11-08 Thread Ted Lemon
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 23:46 +0100, AVee wrote:
 I think it whould help an awfull lot, it would allow you to switch
 firmware 
 before leaving to an 850 or 900 area. In a lot af cases that will
 involve a 
 air travel and a somewhat longer stay in the 'other frequency' area.
 If it 
 could be just a build option I also can imagine a bit of software
 which makes 
 the switch trivial.

I wish it were so, but what I mean by a build option is that they put
a different part on the board if you want 850 vs. 900.   Which I think
is what was proposed.



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Re: community@lists.openmoko.org

2007-10-23 Thread Ted Lemon

On Oct 23, 2007, at 4:25 PM, Richard Reichenbacher wrote:

It's so reasonable to expect everybody to dig through
the entire site to find it, amid the multitude of places that still
say OCTOBER...


Considering that the alternative is for someone *else* to dig through  
the site and report the same answer to you, yes, actually, it does  
sound pretty reasonable for you to dig through the site yourself!   :')



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Re: NetBSD/evbarm Neo1973 kernel

2007-10-12 Thread Ted Lemon

dmesg from real hardware is appreciated


Hm, in the spirit of adventure, I just flashed your NetBSD kernel on  
my Neo, like this:


uma% ./dfu-util -a kernel -R -D ~/Desktop/netbsd.boot dfu-util - (C)  
2007 by OpenMoko Inc.


Then I tried booting it from the serial console.   I can't tell  
whether it went catatonic, or whether it simply is outputting to a  
console device I don't have attached, but the last output I got was  
this, which came from the boot loader, not the kernel (this is on the  
usbmodem console):


GTA01Bv4 # boot


NAND read: device 0 offset 0x44000, size 0x20
 2097152 bytes read: OK
## Booting image at 3200 ...
   Image Name:   Kernel Image
   Created:  2007-10-09  22:49:50 UTC
   Image Type:   ARM NetBSD Kernel Image (uncompressed)
   Data Size:2088749 Bytes =  2 MB
   Load Address: 30008000
   Entry Point:  30008110
   Verifying Checksum ... OK

So basically it just fell flat on its face.   I'd be happy to test  
more kernels, but I don't have any particular suggestions as to what  
may have gone wrong.   One worry I'd have is that in the transition  
from the boot prom to the kernel, the USB serial device might go  
away, at which point seeing the console would be problematic.   Are  
you expecting that the console will be visible via the debug board?
I have one at home, but I won't have access to it until ~Wednesday.


Anything I can do to help, please let me know.   I'd love to see  
NetBSD running on my Neo.



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Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973

2007-09-25 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 24, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Carlo E. Prelz wrote:

QT is bound to C++. With GTK you can choose to program in C, or, if
you really want to, in C++. With QT there is no way you can write your
code in C.


This is an utterly pathetic excuse not to try something.   You don't  
have to become a C++ expert to try Qt.   Just take some existing Qt  
sample code, read it over, spend a half day reading a C++ book to  
figure out the stuff that doesn't make sense to you, and then code  
something up and see how it works.   If it really sucks, you'll  
know.   Without doing this, you simply aren't qualified to say  
anything about Qt.   So it's kind of mind-boggling that you were able  
to come up with so much prose to document your complete lack of  
knowledge on the topic.



Also, Qtopia, by having no X server running in the background, makes
it much more difficult for the average developer to bring his/her own
window to the screen of the phone.


Case in point.   This simply isn't true.   You're saying things that  
you don't know to be true.   Why would you do that?



I see OpenMoko as a developer-oriented phone/system.


I haven't even been able to get a build working.   It only builds on  
one platform - the build is so brittle that if you don't have that  
platform, you can't get it to go.   It's early days, so I don't count  
that against the development team, but this is another stunningly  
ignorant statement.   Have you actually tried to develop an app for  
Openmoko yet?


I've spent far more time trying to figure out the OpenMoko build  
system than I ever spent learning C++ so that I could write Qt code -  
I had my own Qt app, mostly written in C running under Qt in a matter  
of about a day and a half.


GTK may be better than Qt for some reason, but it's not because Qt is  
hard to use.



(I also do like much more the graphical look of the OM proposed
interface, but this is purely a matter of tastes)


Taste matters.   The OpenMoko UI in some places really does look  
better than the Qtopia UI.   There's no need to be bashful about  
preferring one design to the other because of the way it looks.



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Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973

2007-09-25 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 25, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Carlo E. Prelz wrote:

N. I just say that Qt has no C api. And this makes it
unusable. For me. No mention of it being bad.


The personal reason you've given for why you prefer Gtk to Qt is  
valid, for you.   However, most of what you said had nothing to do  
with that - it was conjecture about the relative merits of GTK+X  
versus Qtopia.   And it was factually incorrect, which implies that  
you didn't know it to be true.   This is why I say that if you don't  
know something to be true, you shouldn't say it: you might be  
unknowingly repeating a falsehood.


It's perfectly fine for you to express your personal experience about  
C++, but you have to understand that your experience isn't  
predictive.   Just because it was that way for you doesn't mean it  
will be that way for me.   When you interject your personal  
experience into a discussion about the pros and cons of something,  
and you can't say why that thing didn't work for you, you are  
creating ignorance in the mind of any reader who doesn't already have  
knowledge of the topic on which you are speaking.   Which is why I'm  
trying to encourage you not to do so.



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Re: Help Request for our Webshop

2007-09-23 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 23, 2007, at 10:09 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Why haven't you said that initially? It would have saved me to even  
mention

oscommerce and you the discussion about it.


'cuz he's a big meany!

No, wait, that can't be it!

Maybe he figured anyone who was qualified would already know what a  
steaming heap oscommerce is (zencart is a futile attempt to make  
oscommerce cleaner and more featureful).   More likely, though, he  
just didn't think of it!   :')



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Re: Help Request for our Webshop

2007-09-22 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 22, 2007, at 10:11 AM, Joshua Layne wrote:
a brief googling *  turned up 'substruct' - open source, based on  
ruby on rails - meets a subset of your requirements, but may be  
extensible enough that you don't have to reinvent the entire wheel,  
only the shiny new spin-rims.


The carts I've played with generally have no concept of credit card  
security.   I did a project with zencart a while back, and had to  
retrofit my own credit card security model into the system because it  
just stored credit card information in the database, where an SQL  
injection attack would reveal everything.


I haven't looked closely at substruct - maybe they do something  
smarter.   My personal model for credit card security is to never  
store the credit card information on a customer-facing machine, and  
indeed only keep that information as long as it's needed, even on a  
back office machine.   This way, even if you screw up the security on  
your customer-facing machine, the worst risk is that some info will  
be exposed until you detect the security compromise - there's no risk  
that everybody who ever ordered anything from you will have to get a  
new credit card.



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Re: Help Request for our Webshop

2007-09-22 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 22, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Ian Stirling wrote:

Paypal means that you never see the CC info at all.


This is called throwing the baby out with the bathwater...


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Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973

2007-09-18 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Tilman Baumann wrote:
But thats how it is. Opensource is just about freedom to choose.  
The more choices the better...


My big question about Qtopia for Neo is whether or not Trolltech will  
be willing to take back changes.   I've had some challenges in the  
past getting them to believe bug reports that I sent in, although  
they were extremely professional about it - I probably just needed to  
be more persistent.


So I think that having the two projects competing is probably good in  
terms of keeping people honest.   However, if I can cross-develop for  
Qtopia from my Mac, that's going to make a huge difference for me.   :'}



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Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973

2007-09-18 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Scott Rushforth wrote:
Phone calling works, for both incoming and outgoing calls, the only  
hitch was that I had to manually set the alsa levels using  
gsmhandset.state.


That's a helpful hint.   It appears to be the case that audio doesn't  
work for other apps as well - e.g., the alarm clock doesn't make any  
noise.


I've also noticed that when I try to use bluetooth from Qtopia, my  
bluetooth daemon on my Mac hangs hard - it takes a reboot to get it  
back.   Obviously a Mac bug, but it makes using the software a little  
painful, since I need my Mac to make it work.   :'}


Having played around with Qtopia now, I have a couple of  
observations.   The UI is tight - it looks good, and generally does  
what you expect it to do.   It's a lot more complete than the  
OpenMoko UI, so even people who love gtk might want to take a look at  
it for ideas.


The dev kit appears to be linux-686 only for now, but it would be  
easy to build a set of gnu cross tools on OS X, so this would be an  
easy platform to target for people who are running OSX.   The  
libraries in the current dev kit should work with the cross-compiler  
no matter what host is used.


Someone said that they have invested a lot of work in GTK and  
wouldn't want to switch.   I'd just like to point out that in general  
it's bad practice to deeply marry your back end and UI code,  
precisely because it leads you to this kind of thinking.   You should  
try to keep them as separate as possible.   It's a little extra work  
up front, but it pays off in a big way on the back end.


Someone who wants to ultimately target OpenMoko/GTK, but wants a  
working phone now, might want to consider using Qtopia for now and  
then swapping out the Qtopia front-end for a GTK front-end later.
Particularly if you're already familiar with GTK programming, this  
shouldn't be difficult.


I think that the GTK front end for the Neo has a lot of potential  
that the Qtopia front end may miss, so a strategy that borrows from  
both systems would be good for us early adopters.


Er, the dev kit appears to be missing openssl, which could be a problem.

Also, announcements aside, I don't see a link to the source code on  
the Qtopia/Neo page, so not all promises have yet been kept.
Trolltech has been really good about releasing source code in the  
past, so I'm not worried about this, but without source, developing  
will be more painful.



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Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973

2007-09-18 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 18, 2007, at 1:48 PM, Lorn Potter wrote:

Try ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/tech-preview/


Sweet, thanks!


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Re: Video decoding in GTA-02

2007-09-08 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 8, 2007, at 3:28 AM, Florent THIERY wrote:

But who really wants to check out youtube
videos in the subway ? Marketing, marketing...


My wife uses the video feature on her iPod quite a bit when we're  
traveling.   And video podcasts are a great idea for the subway -  
just as good as reading a magazine, only the pictures move!   So  
don't be too attached to the idea that this is just marketing  
fluff.   The lack of H.264 support is a definite weakness.



What about encoding features of the smedia chips ? The day there will
be a camera on the neo...


Unless you're encoding a long run of video, I don't think this is a  
major issue.   If you are, yeah, hardware encoding for H.264 sounds  
like a great idea.



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Re: Video decoding in GTA-02

2007-09-08 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 8, 2007, at 7:00 AM, Mikko Rauhala wrote:

Software playing will probably take a bit more power, sure, but
that aside, the Neo's youtube capabilities already partially exceed
(*sigh* at the obligatory comparison) the iPhone's.


A lot more power, not a little.   Flash is even worse - that's why  
Apple refused to support it.   Figure you might get an hour of  
battery life if you decode H.264 in hardware, if your CPU can even  
keep up.   Because that's how long the battery lasts with no power  
management on the Neo right now.   The Neo's CPU is roughly  
equivalent to the Nokia 770, which can't play H.264 video in real time.



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Re: Video decoding in GTA-02

2007-09-08 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 8, 2007, at 11:22 AM, Ian Stirling wrote:

It's not _quite_ that bad.
You get  1 hour, even playing h.263 very loudly while on a phone  
call.


That's cool for demo purposes.   Unfortunately H.263 is really only  
of interest to people with patience - the average end-user will  
consider H.263 support to be equivalent to no video support, since  
there's no media available in that format, and e.g. Handbrake doesn't  
support it.   H.263 requires a bit less CPU for playback than H.264,  
but unfortunately requires more bits for the same quality, which I  
think is why it's been almost completely replaced by H.264.


I don't mean to make this out to be a crisis, but in order to sell in  
quantity to non-geeks, the phone will have to support H.264, or else  
we'll need something like Handbrake that supports H.263.   If it had  
H.264 support in hardware with that screen, it would be *really* sweet!



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Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors

2007-09-07 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 7, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Andreas Utterberg wrote:
What the v2 neo needs is a nice oi, the best would be if its  
possible to add compiz fusion, beryl effects to it. That would  
really boost the interest to the mass, just look at the development  
speed to the berylproject had, and the very big community around it  
in a very short amount of time.


I like cool effects as much as the next guy.   But what the phone  
needs is a really good UI.   To sell against the iPhone it needs to  
be as good a value proposition as the iPhone.   Doesn't necessarily  
have to be better, but has to be as good, and it also has to be  
different.   For me, right now, it's already better, because the  
iPhone isn't open.   But for an average person, what's going to make  
the value proposition work is that it does the things they want their  
phone to do nicely, transparently.   Frankly, we are many person- 
years of coding away from that right now.


At a minimum, we need:

- It's got to actually work as a mobile phone.
- At least several hours of H.264 playback.
- A good music app, ideally tied in to the Amazon/Universal store.
- Smart connectivity - connecting up bluetooth devices has to be  
easy, and sensing and connecting to known WiFi networks has to be  
seamless and automatic.
- Mobile Safari-like web browsing - that is, you get to see the whole  
web page, and you can expand and contract the image.

- Leverage the GPS to do things the iPhone doesn't do.

Most of this is self-explanatory, but just a couple of notes.

Remember that a touch screen is not the same as a mouse - you have a  
lot of built-in positional cues when using a touchscreen that a mouse  
UI has to *show* you.   One example of this in the Neo UI that's  
already been adopted is kinetic scrolling.   Another thing that the  
iPhone UI has that we don't is shrink and grow.


Since we don't have multitouch, we can't do shrink and grow the way  
that the iPhone does.  The way I would do it is to designate an area  
of the screen to be the size zone.   Maybe the bottom.   When you  
hold and drag in the size zone, it shrinks or grows the view.   So  
hold and drag to the left, and the view zooms out.   Hold and drag to  
the right, and the view zooms in.   The new GPU ought to make this  
possible.   I think this is more important than any of the stuff i've  
seen demoed in compiz/beryl.   I don't understand why the compiz/ 
beryl people spend so much effort on window dressing.   But maybe I'm  
missing the point - I've never actually run the stuff, just seen the  
online demos, none of which have ever impressed me.   Sigh.


As far as leveraging the GPS, something like a remotely-updateable  
locational todo list would be smart.   Say you go out to pick up  
groceries.   At home, your sweetie remembers that you need more tp.
No problem - she updates the todo list for the supermarket you're  
going to.   When you get there, the phone bleeps with your complete  
shopping list - the stuff that was already on it, and the tp that was  
just added.


You're making coffee, and you notice that you're almost out.   You  
select the local coffee roaster and put in a note that you need  
more.   The next day, you're at the Indian restaurant a mile away,  
which is relatively close in your milieu, and it bleeps to tell you  
to stop at the coffee shop on the way home.   Or, if you're a New  
Yorker, it bleeps when you wander by the store.   Proximity depends  
on your milieu.   Extra credit for locational milieu sensing.


Another app - you have a list of friends, and your phone and theirs  
share information at a common site somewhere. You can update your  
drop-in-ability - when you've got dropins available, your friends'  
phones will all tell them if they are near you.   If you're trying to  
meet your friend who has a Neo, you both tell your neos to be on the  
lookout for the other, or to give you a running positional  
commentary, and using that, you plot a course toward each other and  
meet.


These are things the iPhone doesn't do, so they create a new value  
proposition that makes the Neo competitive.


Another thing that would really change the Neo value proposition for  
me is that I'm afraid to put it in my pocket because of the  
touchscreen, and the carry bag we got with our Neos is (a) completely  
artificial and stinky and (b) has too much padding, so it's too big  
to use.   The Neo needs a protective case.



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Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors

2007-09-07 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 7, 2007, at 1:19 PM, Raphael Jacquot wrote:

- At least several hours of H.264 playback.

possibly doable but I don't believe the current hardware can handle it


The point here is that for the GTA02, if the video hardware supports  
hardware playback of H.264, we need a driver that allows us to take  
advantage of that.   You're right that it's a nonstarted on the  
GTA01, but that's okay.



- A good music app, ideally tied in to the Amazon/Universal store.


with the amount of DRM shit those morons are going to require,  
forget it

leave people put their own stuff on there. no silly iTunes crap


Actually Universal is dissing Apple by releasing non-DRM'd tunes  
through Amazon and not the iTMS, so there's actually some good non- 
DRM'd stuff that'll be available that way.   If it could be  
downloaded over the WiFi, that would be really neat, and something  
that no other phone is likely to offer.



- Leverage the GPS to do things the iPhone doesn't do.


that should be somehow tied with openstreetmap


There are a lot of wicked cool things you can do without OSM working,  
so I think focusing on OSM is just going to delay the things that are  
easy to do.   If it's done and available and easy, great, but it  
needn't be a gating factor in doing cool stuff with the GPS.



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Re: How snappy can the Openmoko GUI get using GTK?

2007-09-02 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 2, 2007, at 7:17 AM, Giles Jones wrote:
Launch speed is something that can be fixed, I'm not sure if the  
build system is using pre-linking? if not it will be something to  
use as this is the cure to application launch speed delays on Unix  
like systems.


This is probably true.

The interface is VGA and so there's a lot more to draw and this  
makes the GUI less responsive than QVGA. The acceleration in the  
next gen hardware will solve this.


This is definitely not true.   I mean, it's true that the QVGA is  
going to take less time to paint, but paint times aren't the problem  
- if they were, kinetic scrolling wouldn't look so nice.   No,  
there's something else going on that's making the UI so  
unresponsive.   Possibly something is timing out, or something's  
running in lock-step that should be asynchronous.


The Palm PDAs were using task switching, it wasn't a full  
multitasking OS, so you have to realise that a Linux based PDA will  
always lag behind a very simple OS.


Again, true, but not likely to produce the results we're seeing.
E.g., when an app is running, and a tap on the UI takes seconds to  
produce a response, this is not something you can attribute to the  
fact that Linux is a protected-mode multitasking kernel.



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Re: How snappy can the Openmoko GUI get using GTK?

2007-09-02 Thread Ted Lemon

On Sep 2, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Giles Jones wrote:
VGA is 4x times the data, not two times. That will have a noticable  
effect. The only VGA device I have owned was a Toshiba E800 PDA,  
this had an ATI chip and it was still a little sluggish.


Hm.   The best example of slow draw times that I can find in the Moko  
UI is the terminal keyboard.   The reason this draws slowly is  
because it's being drawn line by line.   If it were just blitted in,  
it would be quite a bit faster.   It's certainly true that you will  
see slowness as a consequence both of the slow CPU and the lack of a  
GPU, I would guess particularly when surfing the web.   However, this  
is not why the UI feels slow right now.


The UI feels slow right now because when you click on a control,  
sometimes you get no response at all.   Right now, the UI is mainly  
operating in the realm of you click on something, I do something.
This works well when the something happens quickly, but when it  
doesn't, you want you click on something, I do something to show  
that your click registered, I do something.   The elapsed time will  
be slightly longer in the second case, but the perceived UI lag will  
be less because you aren't wondering whether or not your tap registered.



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Re: Message duplicates (was: Changes between GTA1 and GTA2?)

2007-08-27 Thread Ted Lemon

On Aug 27, 2007, at 5:56 AM, Richard Bennett wrote:
A crude solution to make spamassassin restart if it crashes could  
be to start it with a script, wrap the start command in a loop that  
can never finish.  When spamassassin dies, the command will re-run...
Then you can find the reason it crashes later on when you have  
time. (probably never ;o)


If you add a sleep 30 to the script after spamassassin crashes, this  
will have the additional virtue of not soaking up all available CPU  
time if spamassassin can't run.   :')



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Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software

2007-08-24 Thread Ted Lemon

On Aug 24, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Carlo E. Prelz wrote:

WxWidgets never crossed my path. Qt is out of the question since I
don't do C++. I tried a handful of times to get familiar with it, and
was fiercely rejected every time.


That's strange - I have tried a variety of widget libraries,  
including Gtk, and the one that I found easiest to work with, by a  
wide margine, was Qt 4.   I never tried programming Qt 3, and from  
what I've seen of it it looks a lot less straightforward.   So if  
that's the one you tried, and you're curious, you might give Qt 4 a  
shot.   The best way to learn is to start with someone else's working  
code and modify it, so that you get a feel for the system, rather  
than trying to start from scratch.


Personally, I think that the 2007.2 UI looks *fantastic*, despite the  
color scheme, and I love the flick-scrolling. But I am depressed at  
how easily the applications crash.   This is the problem with coding  
UIs in C or C++.


Anyway, if you like Qtopia, please don't sit on the sidelines and  
kibbitz - try to get it running.   There's absolutely no harm in  
people investing effort in trying other stuff.   If you look at how  
many people bought one of these phones, and how many people are  
actively hacking, you can see that there's a lot of thrashing going  
on.   Which is perfectly find - if you thrash enough, sometimes you  
get butter.   So go try Qtopia!



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Re: Anyone, not billed yet?

2007-07-31 Thread Ted Lemon
On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 14:12 +0530, Sudharshan S wrote:
 I just couldn't resist the urge to ask if there are anyone here who
 had ordered the development release but *not been billed* yet.
 Especially anxious since there has not been any word of the second
 batch, AFAIK (ordered it on 11 July, around 0500 hours GMT). Sorry
 folks, but when all the others are getting to play, hack and cuddle
 with the neo, I feel jealous and left alone =(. 

I asked for a creamsicle-colored Neo, and I haven't gotten any kind of
billing or shipping notification yet.   I presume that they haven't yet
shipped the second batch.



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Re: another linux platform platform

2007-07-26 Thread Ted Lemon
On Thu, 2007-07-26 at 08:23 -0700, Tim Newsom wrote:
 They claim to have many of the features we have talked about on the
 list... however, I am wondering about the pending patent related to
 placing security in the bootloader for signature checking of a boot
 image.  Does anyone know if this is available GPL or if they have
 somehow managed to get around all of that? 

They shouldn't get that patent, because there's plenty of prior art.
This is an example of what gplv3 is intended to prevent.   Essentially,
what they're doing is locking their phone so that you *can't* boot
openmoko on it, even though they're observing the letter of the gplv2
license.   They can safely give you source code, and you can't use it.
Tivo's been doing this for years.



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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

2007-07-24 Thread Ted Lemon
On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 19:19 +0200, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
 No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long
 time email users. 

What, that they never actually read what anyone writes, but just skim it
looking for something that they can flame about?

Come on guys, read for comprehension, not for opportunities to flame.



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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

2007-07-24 Thread Ted Lemon
On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 12:33 -0500, Hans L wrote:
 Are you saying that if you don't want your email
 address harvested by spammers, then you should not participate in
 discussions about openmoko at all?  Keeping your email address private
 IS a valid reason for the use of forums. 

No, I'm saying that building your email security using obscurity doesn't
work.  There is no way to keep your email address private, any more than
there's a way to keep your home address private.   You might succeed for
a matter of months, or even a year or so if you're really diligent, or
even longer if you never actually send any email, but eventually someone
who has you in their address book is going to get a virus, and then all
your efforts are for naught.

So whether you use a forum or a mailing list shouldn't be predicated on
your desire to implement security through obscurity.   It should be
predicated on some other reasoning.   That's all I'm saying.   I think
we need both, and as I said in my email message, I look forward to all
of the chatter being siphoned off into the forum.



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Re: No response since YES_I_DO?

2007-07-23 Thread Ted Lemon
On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 23:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Has anyone else NOT received any response at all yet since YES_I_DO?

I'm in the 1900's, and I haven't heard anything.   They've assured us
that they aren't fulfilling orders in order of the RT ticket number, so
I guess there's no need to be alarmed.   :')



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Re: Not the free phone (was: Re: Again: Advertising thoughts

2007-07-20 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jul 20, 2007, at 2:31 AM, Santiago Crespo wrote:

I like the spanish term: libre (like in ubuntu cd-box).


It's not a bad word, but unfortunately when I hear it I get an image  
of a guy wearing army fatigues and carrying an automatic weapon.   To  
some extent I think choosing a branding that will work in every  
country is a hopeless task.   I mean, Coke and McDonald's seem to  
have done it, but I don't know of a lot of others...



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Marketing...

2007-07-20 Thread Ted Lemon
People who are interested in marketing OpenMoko might want to read  
this article:


  http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/07/ 
just_because_it_saves_the_world.php


It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing  
OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in  
OpenMoko as something they care about.



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Re: Marketing...

2007-07-20 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jul 20, 2007, at 11:48 AM, Rodolphe Ortalo wrote:
I suspect we should only ask the average people to follow us [1],  
not to

understand the full software stack. That may even be beneficial in the
end.


This is precisely why I suggest reading the article.


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Re: Marketing...

2007-07-20 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jul 20, 2007, at 4:25 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:

It speaks to exactly the problem that we will have marketing
OpenMoko: how to get Joe and Jane Average to think of the Open in
OpenMoko as something they care about.


Don't do rthat then. As in don't limit the marketing to only focus on
the Open part. The Open part will only get to the people who are
really, interested anyway.


I guess reading the article before commenting on it would be too much  
to ask?



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Re: Marketing...

2007-07-20 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jul 20, 2007, at 5:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe I stated the obvious, but I would like this phone to be a  
success

and thats how i see it happening.. start with the basics...


Like the iPhone, you mean?   :')

Of course it would be great to be able to sync with Microsoft  
Exchange, and if someone takes that on it'll be great, but you can't  
legislate volunteer effort.   Something like that is a royal pain in  
the neck, so it probably won't happen if it's not funded.   If you  
care about it, you might want to take it on.


But even if you don't, we have the example of the iPhone - you can  
sell at least a half million units without Exchange support!



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Re: Shipping, Billing, etc

2007-07-19 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jul 19, 2007, at 12:29 PM, Andy Powell wrote:
What they should have done is not opened the shop for 2 weeks and  
then got
everything in place rather than taken the orders and then sit  
around waiting

because no one thought about the merchant account.


Those bastards!   How dare they?

Man, remember back in the day when you used to mail order things by  
sending a check in an envelope through the postal service?   And then  
four to six weeks later the box would come, or maybe not?   And  
that's what people did for over a century, between the time that mail  
order was invented and the time that the Internet and package  
tracking over the Internet became a possibility.


Sure, this could have been handled better.   If they'd asked me, I  
could have set up a Zencart site for them.   So could probably a  
dozen or more people on this mailing list.   But they had a lot of  
work to do getting the phone out, and they were overconfident about  
how easy this part would be.   We can be angry at them if we want,  
for this oversight, but it's not going to make any difference in how  
soon our phones get shipped.


On the other hand, if you get strident enough, it might make them  
regret ever trying to ship an open source phone.   If that's not your  
goal, you might want to consider different tactics.



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Re: Not the free phone (was: Re: Again: Advertising thoughts

2007-07-17 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jul 17, 2007, at 12:59 AM, ramsesoriginal wrote:

Teh ub3rz h4ck70r7 Ph0n3!!11oneeleven


Perfect.   :')

Honestly, I don't think this is something that one needs to worry  
about.   What's going to happen if OpenMoko really becomes usable is  
that various vendors will adopt it in markets that will take it,  
because it's cheaper and (assuming we do our job right) nicer than  
the alternatives.


And then you will see the Motorola OpenRAZR, the Samsung tFree, and  
like that, and hopefully FIC will find itself a real player in the  
high-end phone category as well.   So take delivery of your phone,  
and do something cool with it.



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Re: Shipping update

2007-07-17 Thread Ted Lemon
Sean, probably a dumb question, but I'm leaving for IETF on Saturday,  
so I'm really hoping that my two-day delivery will get the phone here  
by Friday.   I don't desperately need it before IETF - I just don't  
want it sitting on my front stoop for a week (well, for that part of  
a week before it's stolen!).


Is there any chance that we'll get some kind of notification/tracking  
information when the phones ship?


Sorry to hassle you - I know things must be really busy.   Congrats  
on getting the first batch through customs!



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Free OpenMoko...

2007-07-17 Thread Ted Lemon

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.freeopenmoko.com/

Weird, huh?


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Re: keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:37 AM, quixote wrote:

How do other people feel about this?


I think it'd be a nice variant, but I'm glad it's not in the base  
model.   Bear in mind that there are some bitchen' bluetooth  
keyboards out there, like the ThinkOutside stowaway sierra.
Depending on your application this may or may not work - it's not so  
handy for just pulling the phone out of your pocket and IMing  
someone.   But for any serious typing, it's going to be a lot nicer,  
and a lot less likely to give you RSI injuries to your thumbs.



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Re: built-in scripting languages

2007-01-22 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 22, 2007, at 2:49 PM, Andraž 'ruskie' Levstik wrote:
Personaly by default there should be none. And let the user decide  
what he
wants. For example I prefer ruby over perl, lua or python and I  
like using
bash scripts for a lot of stuff. So having lua on my system would  
be more

or less pointless as I don't use it myself.


I want to agree with this, but I'd like to point out one small  
problem with it: if you have an app written in one of these  
languages, you have to install the whole interpreter anyway.   And  
god forbid you should have two apps, both of which are written with  
the same interpreter, both of which install their own (possibly  
conflicting) version of it.


So in order to agree with this, we nevertheless have to talk about  
the problem: how do we ensure that if an end-user wants to run an app  
written in python, and another written in ruby, and a third written  
in python, that they get exactly two interpreters installed on their  
Neo, and not three?


There are a couple of ways to solve this problem, but the point is  
that if you just leave it open and let nobody solve it, you may wind  
up with an unpalatable result for the end-user.   And the result for  
the end-user is important - if the Neo is only useful to geeks, it  
can't accomplish its stated goals.



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Re: built-in scripting languages

2007-01-22 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 22, 2007, at 3:28 PM, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

So when you put your first python
application on, ipkg will conclude you need python.  When you put your
second on, it will conclude you've alrady got python.


Sure.   So in that case it does make sense to talk about standard  
versions of each interpreter, and to not talk about a standard  
interpreter.



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Re: Free Your Phone

2007-01-21 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 21, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:


Hehe...waterproof phones would be really cool. It's just so expensive.


Sort of on that same note, though, once the design becomes a little  
more solid, building some additional durability into the phone would  
be a nice thing.   So many phones we get nowadays are expensive and  
break quickly.   It would be nice if the phone could be disassembled  
using torx drivers, and if you could replace the more breakable  
parts.   I don't think this is a practical suggestion for the  
developer phone, but sturdiness and maintainability really would be a  
good (and surprising) quality in a phone.   If this phone becomes  
something that people buy and keep, then spending a little extra to  
make it last longer might be worthwhile.



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Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary

2007-01-17 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 17, 2007, at 5:57 PM, Richard Franks wrote:

I disagree - VoIP via WiFi is an obvious evolution rather than
revolutionary. I don't think it's a 'killer app' either - in the terms
of the phone manufacturer who is more likely to benefit from getting
6-12months lead and market share in an unexploited but growing market
(Open Source Mobile Phones).


Hm.   I think that an open source phone is pretty revolutionary too,  
and I'm looking forward to it.   I'd just like to point out that you  
actually get some bang for your buck on VOIP even with a bluetooth  
phone.   It won't work at Starbucks, which is a shame, but it will  
work when you're at home, because you can get networking over  
bluetooth from your computer.


So you very much can do VOIP calling on an OpenMoko phone if the  
software gets written.   And when a new phone comes out with WiFi, the  
software *will* work at Starbucks.   Although I suspect it'll burn the  
battery something fierce, so it might not be all that useful.   But  
yeah, in theory, if it all works reasonably well, this would be really  
nice.


One thing to bear in mind is that at least for me, the ability to have  
a bluetooth headset is pretty important.   So if the WiFi nukes the  
bluetooth, that makes it pretty much worthless.


I do actually tend to think that a hybrid WiFi/GSM phone that isn't  
locked to a carrier *is* revolutionary, but it doesn't have to be the  
first product out of the gate, either.



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Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary

2007-01-17 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 17, 2007, at 7:00 PM, David Schlesinger wrote:
The revolution evidently has a bunch of people who don't see that  
the value of half (or ninety-five one-hundredths) of a loaf exceeds  
that of no loaf at all.


I wouldn't take this very seriously.   Despite the lack of WiFi, which  
I definitely agree is a minus, I am going to get one of these phones  
as soon as I can.   The thing I'm paranoid about right now is whether  
or not GPRS works over my t-mobile (US) network.   WiFi would be  
really nice, but it's by no means a deal-breaker.   Actually, it  
probably means an extra sale when the WiFi-capable phone comes out  
next year.   I'm sure I can find someone on whom to pawn off the non- 
WiFi phone.   :')



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Re: Neither iPhone or OpenMoko are revolutionary

2007-01-17 Thread Ted Lemon

On Jan 17, 2007, at 7:37 PM, David Schlesinger wrote:
The NEO's not _cheap_, exactly: there was a recent survey of 1,800  
recent

purchasers of cell phones, and 21--not 21 _percent_, mind you, 21,
period--paid over $400. Not many more paid as much as $350.


To me what differentiates the NEO from a typical $400 phone is that  
when you've plunked down your money for a typical phone, you're locked  
into your provider (this is how it is in the U.S. - I know it's  
different in at least parts of Europe).   On top of that, if there's  
anything you don't like about your phone, that's too bad, because when  
they fix the problem in the next release, the only way you're going to  
get it is to buy the new phone.   Compared to the OpenMoko situation  
where even if you aren't a geek yourself, at least when some annoying  
UI glitch gets fixed, you can update your software.


Also, since you're paying for the phone, not your provider, you are  
the customer, not your provider.   I currently have a Samsung t809,  
which is a D820 flashed with t-mobile's firmware.   The phone is  
supposed to be really nice - it has an MP3 player, for example, and  
bluetooth, and supports EDGE as well as GPRS.   But none of the  
features that I wanted actually work.


I can't use a stereo bluetooth headset on it, because the version of  
the firmware t-mobile ships doesn't support that.   So the mp3 player  
is useless.


The apps on the Samsung don't interface with my PIM on my laptop, so I  
can't update the phone book on the phone - it's a dead end data  
store.   When I lose the phone, I have to re-enter all that data.
The calendar isn't interoperable, so same problem.   The AIM client  
uses SMS, so it's $0.10/message, even though I'm paying for unlimited  
GPRS/EDGE.   The PPP implementation doesn't work with my laptop, so I  
can't even use GPRS/EDGE for anything except from my Nokia 770, which  
I usually don't carry.


So yes, not many people have bought expensive phones.   Why?
Because, by design, they suck.   The customer is the provider, not the  
user.   So whether you're into open source or not, the OpenMoko/NEO  
phone is a much more attractive value proposition.   When a product  
isn't selling well, it might be because it costs more than the market  
will bear, but it's also possible that it just sucks, and so nobody  
wants it.


It really will be interesting to see what happens with the NEO.   I  
think we will learn a lot.



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