Re: Ericsson releases free cell-id lookup API
Agree, as far as I know, there is no way to most on the device to access to these informations. What I know is that now Google Map use frequently location provided by operators (and not by their own database). On the operator side, you can have a better location than just the cell because the networks also knows the neighbouring cells and other parameters, but this require changes or new equipement in the network, which is costly. 2009/11/3 jeanmatthew jeanmatthewjohns...@gmail.com: Are there any devices that supports access to these measures? To do any kind of combination you still need to extract all of the data from the device and send to the server. Google doesn't have access to any kind of data from the network. Google Maps apps even on pre-android phones (Java Mobile Edition) have had access to cell-id via the various proprietary java interfaces (com.sonyericsson.net.cellid, net.rim.device.api.system.GPRSInfo.getCellInfo().getCellId() on the blackberry etc). These interfaces are what allowed the OpenCellID project to exist before the freerunner was released. But are there any devices that support the reading of signal_strength and timing_advance from all neighbouring cells so that these can be supplied in the request to the Geolocation Network API? The proprietary interfaces I have seen only supports the cell you are currently registered to and not the neighbours. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Ericsson-releases-free-cell-id-lookup-API-tp3869908p3937224.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
CellHunters data integrated in OpenCellID
Hello everybody, Just to inform that we have succesfully integrated CellHunters data into the OpenCellID database. The database is now more than 570 000 cells for 48 310 000 measures The signal strengh field hase been imported, as well the gname wich is the name of the team who have created the measures. So thanks to Sebastian Hammer of CellsHunter for helping me and to all the cell hunters! ;) -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Great, good to know that you are back. So I would like to be sure that you received my latest emails / linked in invitation/facebook inviation in order to make sure that we still can continue to discuss! :-) 2009/9/3 Onen onen...@free.fr: Hi, I was away from my computer, I try to go now through my emails... Thomas Landspurg wrote: Guys, I start to be a little bit deseperate by these discussions I have some point of disagreement, Please tell. but I would like first to stay polite You imply you think you have good reasons not to. I think you should simply tell what you think. and discuss with the OpenBMap guy. Does somebody knows where he disappear? !!! I am trying to contact him since more than a week without success I find very ironic that you find more than a week thaat long. Onen -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Hello Risto, That's exactly the objective.There is a clear difference and complementarity between a general purpose database and the CellsHunter game for instance. The good news is that we are progressing well with CellsHunter to integrate their database. Currently the integration has been done once but I hope to integrate this much easily soon... I still hope to convince OpenBMap to don't recreate another database focused on OpenMoko but use and improve a general purpose project. I am sure that that's the spirit of Onen, but it seems that we had some communication issue that I should be solved soon. The final benefit, at the end, is to provide the best not in only in term of coverage but also in terms of accuracy database. As a reminder, we are open to any suggestion on how to imprement the API, features, missing fields, etc. 2009/9/3 Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi: I have no idea what's going on between you people but: Now that I had a little thought, I really don't care how many copies of the database we have. All I care about is that a) there's a way to use the data (=a client capable to locate me based on the GSM cells around me) b) the client uses the database with most cells. - as long as all three projects have proper API's to import/export data and they do it from the other 2 projects things work. It kind of makes sense if the projects use different ways to collect the data. One has it as a competition, one uses some clients to collect the data, another uses other clients and projects. And in the end they all benefit from the work of others. Just some points for you to discuss: a) common api or data format to import/export b) common api to submit cells r - goes out to find some cells (no, not really, I'll watch an episode of CSI :) -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Hello Risto, note that strengh is already part of the opencellid api. As I've pointed out once, the problem is not all client have access to these data. So do we add all possible fields in the database? Out of the 45 millions of measures, only several millions might have all these data. My suggestion, implemented today in the opencellid api is the following: add the missing informaiton in the extraInfo field, as tag/value. For instance, extraInfo=speed=123,alt=12,hdop=12,vdop=6 etc. This is already used by some tools for instance the cellhunter importer put the team name as gteam=team name value. Then, the algorithm to define the cell might use these extra info. The bad thing is that it would by quite difficult to do query on this extra things. I do not thing that it's the biggest issue. The other problem might be that we need to find a common naming for all possible new fields and ensure validity. For instance, use alt and not altitude, etc One possible option is to add hese as extra possible parameters so it will be checked, but store them as value/pair. Other fields could be added also, to store for instance user agent instead of software version for others type of platforms, or accuracy but not defined in hdop/vdop value but in others type (see JSR179 or Android API). Any opininon on this. -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Thanks for the information, I'll subscribe to it. 2009/9/6 Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi: Btw you all three (openbmap, cellhunter, opencellid) devels are warmly welcome to join FOSS-GPS -mailing list (http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/foss-gps) - I'd like to see discussion about the algorithms you use to calculate the position of the cells. It must be something else than just the average... As a used I'd like to know it but also I think there's some optimization to be done in the field. If OpenBMap uses also speed GPS precision information alt in the calculation, I'd like to see the algorithm.. r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Guys, I start to be a little bit deseperate by these discussions I have some point of disagreement, but I would like first to stay polite and discuss with the OpenBMap guy. Does somebody knows where he disappear? I am trying to contact him since more than a week without success 2009/9/3 Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Yorick Mokoyorickm...@gmail.com wrote: this is how I see it, from an end-user point-of-view: openBmap has the most cells openBmap maps the most information all I want is as much cells as possible AND know that I'm logging everything that increases the quality of the data (AFAIK cellhunter logs less information) openBmap does the trick for both of them +1 (and I also know that onen/openBmap is working on software to do the location based on GPS cells) But if the projects want to co-operate and use same databases I'm thumbs up for it! r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Hello Risto, Here is a few facts from such FAQ: Most of the cells from OpenBMap are coming from OpenCellID (the 'untrusted ones') One of the main difference from the three is that only OpenCellID provides a complete access to the data and the measures. OpenCellId added a CVS uploader to import bulk CSV data files mainly to be compatible with the OpenBMap logger. I just don't have any OpenMoko phone to test it. I've been out of the mailing list from some time because I am not involved in the OpenMoko community (I am more involved in J2ME and others platforms), but I would be happy to reactivate the integration effort. Since the beginning, OpenCellID was focused on collecting the data and not writing clients for all platforms. I would be happy to support the OpenBMap client and do some modifications if needed. Regarding CellHunter, I would ba happy also to work on an integration. We had some early discussion, but I'll try to reactivate them. Regards, 2009/9/2 Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi: On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 2:47 AM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabrar...@1407.org wrote: How does CellHunter compare with OpenBMap ? I think someone could write a wiki page about this and include it in FAQ's :) CellHunter: 7milj cells, clients: http://www.opkg.org/package_111.html and http://www.opkg.org/package_175.html (and repositories?) OpenBMap: 479584 cells of which 82842 are 'trusted'*, client: http://www.opkg.org/package_186.html (and repositories) OpenCellID: 433459 cells, clients: http://www.opencellid.org/users/staticShow/download * trusted means it's collected via OpenBMap project, not imported from other projects. AFAIK, CellHunter is a competition (teams/individuals against each other) on collecting cells as OpenBmapOpenCellID - well, you just collect the cells. AFAIK, OpenBmap is told to import data from other projects AFAIK, OpenBmap was started because of different views about important data to collect between OpenCellID and OpenBMap devels. To me the whole thing is a big mess. Do we really need three projects. Let me bet, they all are now working on tools to use their own data to find the position of a phone, right? 1) if OpenBMap imports from other projects, why it's missing the 7milj cellhunter cells? 2) AFAIK There are no tools to benefit from the collected data yet 3) Can't see a OpenCellID client for Freerunner I earlier tried CellHunter, didn't work. For me OpenBmap is just easiest to use. Which doesn't necessarily make it the best one of these three to contribute to. They call the diversity a richness of Open Source. Can't really see it here. r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter - openbmap - opencellid revisited... (was Re: CellHunter is moving to a new server)
Again , and clarifiacation: ObenBMap have in fact less than 82963 cells (the 'trusted' cells), the others are coming from OpenCellId! ;) OpenCellID: 433 574 cells CellHunter: 148 943 cells OpenBMap: 82 963 cells (sorry for talking the risk of being the 'bad' guy agin, but at the end that's a little bit annoying) I would be fine also to reintegrate cells from CellsHunter into OpenCellID too 2009/9/3 Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi: About the amount of cells, could someone explain me how many cells (with some kind of location information) cellhunter knows: http://ch.omoco.de/cellhunter/images/cellhunter_statistic_all.png explained here: http://ch.omoco.de/cellhunter/?hideintro=1orderby=beginat= 7milj (don't know where I got it from.. sorry for misleading..) is the number of ALL submits but to me it looks like that the no of cells is around 141371 (NCG) + 7572 (OCnG) = 148 943 cells. The rest are just more gps information for a single cell. Am I wrong? So to recap: OpenBMap: 479740 cells (of which 82963 are 'trusted') OpenCellID: 433574 cells CellHunter: 148 943 cells r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenCellID (was OpenBmap logger (GSM positioning)])
Sorry for not replying this email. I am not an active member of the open moko community so I was a little bit overloaded by the mail rate at that time. Hopefully, the OpenVMap guy pointed me this unreplied email, so here are my answer, and it's basically very short: 2009/2/21 Nick realtimeb...@gmail.com: Thomas, I agree with you about the train and people in the train. what about bad gps hdop,... ? I agree your approach will be probably enought for assited GPS. (anyone knows the precision needed ?) but I don't think this is the right one for the other services mentionned. Thinking of a high quality my position service (google kind), we will not achieve it not treating gps hdop, gps speed... so to be constructive in order to merge our databases, would you be ready to collect gps speed, gps (hvp)dop and make these info available in your (very large) measures file ? YES From this, I could provide you with a new mapping manager that identify the cells position calculated with gps (hvp)dop, gps speed when these values are available the cells position calculated with no gps (hvp)dop, gps speed because these values are not available We would have only one database with both quantity (the whole database) and quality for some cells. (Hoping that the best quality, would be available for all the cells in the future) what do you think about it ? Sounds great! The diifculty will be to do the new computation of all cells with data of various level of quality. Hard but not unpossible regards, Nick Thomas Landspurg a écrit : 2009/2/20 Nick realtimeb...@gmail.com mailto:realtimeb...@gmail.com Thomas, After trying to reach you a few times last year, i am really glad to have some news from you now. The easiest way is to use the email mentionned in the Web page! ;-) I am reponsible for the openBmap website. And yes, it would be a great thing to merge our projects ! The number of logs you have is very impressive ! well done ! My concern would be about the quality of your data . you still mention on the front page Note:If you want a professional CellID Database, I suggest you to go to Navizon who provides top services and databases. what do you mean ? Tihs mean that there are company that have created huge databases of high quality by spendig a lot of money on it, and they make money by selling these data. Navizon pays his users for this, and other are throwing a lot of money on this too, by sending people doing measures, or by buying operators database. That's exactly the same difference between OpenStreetMap and Navteq/Teleatlas. OpenStreetMap is free, provided by the community, but of a lower quality than their commercial counterpart except on some specific area not covered by these equivalents. Of course, the objective is to reach the same quality, but this will take time. and after importing 800 000 of your gps points in january, I see that for instance gps speed, gps hdop, gps pdop, gps vdop are not available (at least at the begining of this huge measures.txt file !), A bad pdop, vdop, hdop and i am positioned at 1 km from my real position ... What if i am in a high speed train at 300 km/h? or in plane ? (yes, it can work in planes...) Let's go back to the basics: the objective of these database if to provied an positionning to create services using localisation on top of this database. Let's take the sample of an high speed train: there is high chances that all the sample will came from people in the train itself, and not from the neighbour outside (train don't go at 300 km/h in high density area). So this mean that the REAL position of the cell will never be accuratly computed, which is not an issue, because the only interesting information is the user position. So sampling mesures even some errors is fine as long as it works fine to get user position. So the philosophy behing opencellid was to reach the 80/20 ratio: acheiving the 80% of functionality will require only 20% of the time needed to do these 100% functionality. So that's why we have a simple and elegant API, that is used by different devices with different capacities, while acheiving exactly this objective: providing an accurate cell id positionning. In my opinion, considering the following services *** asisted gps *** cell id to google my position kind of service *** cell id to town name service the real questions are: what precision do we need for openmoko location service through gsm cell id ? what precision our possibly merged database would provide ? Assisted GPS does not require huge precision. I am not an expert, but I would be curious to know what is the precision needed to get an assisted GPS. Using triangulation is a different story, and this obvisouly will work fine only
Re: OpenCellID (was OpenBmap logger (GSM positioning)])
Heu, yes, thats, me too ( http://landspurg.net/tomsoft/Demos/ ) ;) 2009/8/26 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de: On Wednesday 26 August 2009 08:38:05 Thomas Landspurg wrote: [...] Sorry for hijacking this thread, but... are you the Mr. Vectorballs Thomas Landspurg or someone else? Cheers, LPA of TGM-Crew / Thrust / Threat / Traitors / Supreme. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenCellId : How to contribute simply with my moko ?
There is currenrtly 4197 cells for france if you look at the stats ( http://www.opencellid.org/cell/stats ) The map just show the LATEST 200 cells. It's very easy to contribute, there is a simple REST API to uplaod cell measures. I think somebody already dome some job here for OpenMoko, let me find it... -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
NEw functions for OpenCellID+Perl lib
Dear all, Some news functions that could be useful for you: cell/getInArea returns the list of cells for a specific area, filtered if needed by country code/operator Usefull if you want to preaload some data for a specific are with an application (see http://www.opencellid.org/api ) Also note that somebody just posted a nice Perl library to access to OpenCellID: http://search.cpan.org/~mrdvt/Geo-WebService-OpenCellID-0.01/ Hope that this will help you. And again, we are open to any suggestions! -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenCellID and government list of towers
This list are not helpfull, as they do not contains the callid, just the position of the tower. They could be used to obtain a better precision of a cell put this is not the case on opencellid. All cells informations at OpenCellID are obtanined from publicly available data on your phone, and not based on commercial database. But of course, I am not a legal expert, but I think that there is no legal issue here. 2009/2/21 Tim Dobson li...@tdobson.net Olivier Migeot wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: There are many creative commons licenses, some are permit commercial use, some don't. If you go one click further, you'd discover that the said Creative Commons licence chosed by OpenCellID is : http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Please please forgive me if I'm wrong. I put my hand up and say I am not an expert in this area and COULD BE WRONG. opencellid has A LOT of data for the UK. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if this was all the towers. Due to a load of people being scared of phone masts and radiation etc, the uk body in charge of radio stuff etc. OFCOM, made available on this website: http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/ pretty much all the locations of all the cell towers... I'm not sure how that information is licenced.. I have seen discussions about this before I think but I can't remember where... it could have been OSM related. Obviously the issue would be opencellid integrating unclearls licenced data. Before you reply: STOP. As I said before, I may well be wrong! Happy Hacking, Tim -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Introducing CellHunter
Hello Robin, Thanks for poiting this out. Any thought on what license then should OpenCellID use? I would be happy if somebody with a good background on this would provide us a suggesiton on the license or even the wording to be used with OpenCellID. And sebastian, as I stated yesterday, congrat for the idea, I am looking forward for the integration between this effort and OpenCellID. Regards, 2009/2/22 Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com 2009/2/22 Sebastian Hammerl list-openm...@omoco.de: now I find the time to post on the community mailinglist and like to (already mentioned here) introduce myself and CellHunter. I am student right now and got together with some friends and imagined that we could have fun with cellids and games based on there cells. But for this we need a database to work on and so i started the project CellHunter [1]. CellHunter is a game where you collect cellids together with the gps position you received this cell. You are working in teams and get points for each cell you submit. The score for the submitted cell depends on the type of cell if it is already known or brand new. More about the point system on the homepage [2]. Right know the CellHunter database contains about 45 entries with ~9000 unique cells. 35 teams active and we get new cells everyday. I know that there a several other cell databases and i contacted opencellid two days ago and will contribute. Others are welcome to contact me. The license of the data is discussed at the moment, i think it will be cc-by-sa but because this project is very new and grows faster than i expected i just want to check available licenses and their pros and cons. Hi Sebastian, good to hear you're working on this project. i've been working on openstreetmap.org, a conceptually similar project, for a couple of years now - they are currently in the process of transitioning from cc-by-sa to a new license, specifically designed for databases, with the help of a lawyer or two. their theory is that cc is more for creative content, which is not really applicable to osm; this may be useful for your project too. more info here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License cheers ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenCellID (was OpenBmap logger (GSM positioning)])
2009/2/20 Nick realtimeb...@gmail.com Thomas, After trying to reach you a few times last year, i am really glad to have some news from you now. The easiest way is to use the email mentionned in the Web page! ;-) I am reponsible for the openBmap website. And yes, it would be a great thing to merge our projects ! The number of logs you have is very impressive ! well done ! My concern would be about the quality of your data . you still mention on the front page Note:If you want a professional CellID Database, I suggest you to go to Navizon who provides top services and databases. what do you mean ? Tihs mean that there are company that have created huge databases of high quality by spendig a lot of money on it, and they make money by selling these data. Navizon pays his users for this, and other are throwing a lot of money on this too, by sending people doing measures, or by buying operators database. That's exactly the same difference between OpenStreetMap and Navteq/Teleatlas. OpenStreetMap is free, provided by the community, but of a lower quality than their commercial counterpart except on some specific area not covered by these equivalents. Of course, the objective is to reach the same quality, but this will take time. and after importing 800 000 of your gps points in january, I see that for instance gps speed, gps hdop, gps pdop, gps vdop are not available (at least at the begining of this huge measures.txt file !), A bad pdop, vdop, hdop and i am positioned at 1 km from my real position ... What if i am in a high speed train at 300 km/h? or in plane ? (yes, it can work in planes...) Let's go back to the basics: the objective of these database if to provied an positionning to create services using localisation on top of this database. Let's take the sample of an high speed train: there is high chances that all the sample will came from people in the train itself, and not from the neighbour outside (train don't go at 300 km/h in high density area). So this mean that the REAL position of the cell will never be accuratly computed, which is not an issue, because the only interesting information is the user position. So sampling mesures even some errors is fine as long as it works fine to get user position. So the philosophy behing opencellid was to reach the 80/20 ratio: acheiving the 80% of functionality will require only 20% of the time needed to do these 100% functionality. So that's why we have a simple and elegant API, that is used by different devices with different capacities, while acheiving exactly this objective: providing an accurate cell id positionning. In my opinion, considering the following services *** asisted gps *** cell id to google my position kind of service *** cell id to town name service the real questions are: what precision do we need for openmoko location service through gsm cell id ? what precision our possibly merged database would provide ? Assisted GPS does not require huge precision. I am not an expert, but I would be curious to know what is the precision needed to get an assisted GPS. Using triangulation is a different story, and this obvisouly will work fine only in high density area, where you also have high density cells. So again, there is a direct correlation between the precision and the density of the area. Note also that OpenCellID use LAC (Local Area Code) to provide an alternate positioning with a lower precision if a cell is not know, but if the LAC is know. Typically other cells has been discovered in the same area. So once you get CellID positionning, you can use reverse geocoding service to get the town for instance. what do you think about the above considerations ? really glad to hear from you ! regards, Nick Thomas Landspurg a écrit : 2009/2/20 Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr Hi Thomas, Thomas Landspurg wrote: Dear OpenMoko community (and thanks ed for pointing this out). I am behind the opencellid.org http://opencellid.org http://opencellid.org project, and it seems that there are some discussion around it these day on the mailing list. Last month, and today, indeed. Yes, I've get to it today! It's a pity not to have been notified of such discussion before. I've been through them, and I want to add some clarification about difference between database: - OpenCellID can also store signal strengh. But one of the issue, is heterogenity between datas. Some client don't have this information, and this create some additional complexity. That's why this information is for now only stored but not yet used. And in all was, if you want it, it's in the measure table, and not in the cell table. - About the barycenter of the area/instead of barycenter: it's not always the best way to do it, as it give more value to false datas. while
Re: OpenCellID (was OpenBmap logger (GSM positioning)])
2009/2/20 Onen onen...@free.fr see comments inline... Thomas Landspurg wrote: - OpenCellID can also store signal strengh. But one of the issue, is heterogenity between datas. Some client don't have this information, and this create some additional complexity. That's why this information is for now only stored but not yet used. And in all was, if you want it, it's in the measure table, and not in the cell table. We thought about this. We also store the phone model, in order to possibly be able to use some data of known good phones, or simply the data of the same model as yours, etc... You can, but then, what about other project tht does not store these datas? How to merge other atabases? So storing everything is fine as long as ALL the data comes with the same precision or level of information, which is not the case today. Good to see there is no client for openmoko, otherwise I may have worked for nothing ;-) Yes, I've heard that other where working on such client too! Are the people behind CellHunter following this thread? Please jump in if so. We are already discussing to reintegrate their data in OpenCellID! :-) As there are also plans on embedding the database on the phone, and using it to locate, I would like to know if this part would interest you? Or only the server side and upload? The idea is to provide all the means to do so. So if there is anything that is needed to help you to do this, I would be happy to provide it. For instance, a way to send an area and get the list of cells in that area. I amalready working on such functionality. Great! But the switch to from OpenBMap to OpenCellID should be quite fast as I assume that the API is probably the same, or very close to. ( http://www.opencellid.org/api ) For my part, the logging client, it can be easily adapted to feed other databases. For the location part, Nick knows this better than me. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenCellID (was OpenBmap logger (GSM positioning)])
, the GSM part gets updated only after receiving an asynchronous update from the network. This means at start time, it is normal the GSM part does not display GSM information, even if you are registered to network. * A button to upload. This will block the interface until every log has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of the upload part. After succesfull upload, the logs are moved to HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default. Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr website, and fill the login/password in the configuration file before upload works. * A button to exit. Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap directory by default. Known bugs: * when you are generating logs, and you press 'Stop' button. A popup window let you know you should wait for the logger to finish stopping. Under FSO M5, if you press the power button, the phone suspends. You press it again it wakes up. Nevertheless the GUI is frozen. You will have to kill the process. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Thomas LANDSPURG 8Motions Founder/CTO http://www.8motions.com http://www.opencellid.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenCellID (was OpenBmap logger (GSM positioning)])
2009/2/20 Onen onen...@free.fr Hi Thomas, Thomas Landspurg wrote: Dear OpenMoko community (and thanks ed for pointing this out). I am behind the opencellid.org http://opencellid.org project, and it seems that there are some discussion around it these day on the mailing list. Last month, and today, indeed. Yes, I've get to it today! It's a pity not to have been notified of such discussion before. I've been through them, and I want to add some clarification about difference between database: - OpenCellID can also store signal strengh. But one of the issue, is heterogenity between datas. Some client don't have this information, and this create some additional complexity. That's why this information is for now only stored but not yet used. And in all was, if you want it, it's in the measure table, and not in the cell table. - About the barycenter of the area/instead of barycenter: it's not always the best way to do it, as it give more value to false datas. while the simple barycenter reduce these. Another option would be to exclude data that would be completely out of range And more general information about the databse: more than 500 developers have registered to get an API key. Obvisouly not 500 application are out, but show the interest of the community So let me clarifiy: - As described in the web site, the license is under creative common share alike 3.0. I had several request today stating that just linking to the license was not clear enough, so I will re-clarify it on the web site, but also in this list. Last time I checked (and other people, see the post I pointed out earlier today), it was not clear. But today, as people had a look again, it seems to me pretty clear :-) Last time, it was written under creative common license, with a link to the creative common share alike license. I am sorry if this was not clear enough, but as you see, a simple mail is enough to get it corrected. - I am surprised to see statment that I did not answer to some questions. I've verified,and all openmoko request have been answered. I am not perfect, and may be some emails have been missed, but a search on openmoko on my mail box did not raise any pending question. Not sure what you mean by openmoko request... When I stated that neither us nor openmoko did get an answer, I should have written: If I recall correclty openmoko tried to reach opencellid, but I have not heard of any response. We tried to contact opencellid, but got no response. I personally have not tried to reach you. But Nick yes, without answer, for what I have understood. Would be curious to have his email just to check. I am quite sure I've answered to all demands like this. There is more than 100 000 cells covered, with 5.5 millions of measure, and more cells will be donated soon. We expect to reach 200 000 cells in the coming weeks thanks to a new project donation. There is also more than 10 different clients (windows mobile, symbian, blackberry, j2me,...) gathering the database. Is there different countries? Yes, the stats page show all countries: http://www.opencellid.org/cell/stats Good to see there is no client for openmoko, otherwise I may have worked for nothing ;-) Yes, I've heard that other where working on such client too! I've been running this project since more than one year , with an objective to push community efforts around cell id. So I would be more than happy to see new effort joining this project instead of creating separate efforts. So let's join effort and create something big! I am very glad to read this, especially as I was very disappointed not being able to leverage the existing work you have done. For my part I work on the client side. A logger/uploader. I guess it would be easy to modify it to upload to your database if we go that way. But for now, I think it would be good Nick (who takes care of the server side) and you keep discussing, in order to evaluate a possible merger. As there are also plans on embedding the database on the phone, and using it to locate, I would like to know if this part would interest you? Or only the server side and upload? The idea is to provide all the means to do so. So if there is anything that is needed to help you to do this, I would be happy to provide it. For instance, a way to send an area and get the list of cells in that area. I amalready working on such functionality. But the switch to from OpenBMap to OpenCellID should be quite fast as I assume that the API is probably the same, or very close to. ( http://www.opencellid.org/api ) And as a reminder, the complete data base is available for download. So if you have any question/interrogation, feel free to share them with me so we can clarify this. Regards, Great we can move along. I hated this feeling of reinventing the wheel! So do I! Onen
