Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
There is now a new Wiki page for the project:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid
Kewl. But where's the duct tape ? :-)
I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a nice
design. The main reason is that we can't
Christoph Mair wrote:
Soldering experience is definitively required. The QFN chips (gyros and
compass) are somewhat difficult to handle, but you can reflow-solder
them in a pizza oven.
An approach I found quite efficient for occasional DIY of QFN parts
on home-made PCBs is to apply a generous
Bartlomiej Zimon wrote:
I want ask why we not use execution in place?
At the risk of maximizing technical accuracy while minimizing
usefulness of the response, this is of course precisely what
happens when you boot from NOR :-)
- Werner
___
Openmoko
Christoph Mair wrote:
we are proud to release a hardware extension for our beloved Freerunner: a
navigation board!
Very impressive. Congratulations !
I guess the next level would be to make a board that fits into one
of the Embedded Air (tm) pockets also have some RF transceiver ;-)
- Werner
Christoph Mair wrote:
Well, I've got a lot of other crazy ideas to fill these pockets, I just don't
have enough time to realize them all.
Wow, I would have never imagined that anyone else could experience
this problem, too ;-)
Do you have any specific requirements which I
should take into
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
We [...] pay Gismo a monthly salary to maintain things for us.
Thanks for clarifying and thanks for your continued support of
the Openmoko community !
- Werner
___
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community@lists.openmoko.org
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
That also raises more general questions:
I asked Joachim. I hope I got the details right:
- Openmoko Inc. still pays for the domain and the openmoko.org
servers.
- The openmoko.org domain is owned by Openmoko Inc.
- the name servers serving the openmoko.org
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Some fast guys were
able to copy many files from the Googe cache but the Wiki war mostly
lost.
Somewhat unrelated, but I wonder how the git-wiki projects are doing.
http://github.com/minad/git-wiki/network is supposed to give a clue
where the action is, but
[ Let's use a meaningful subject. ]
Christoph Pulster wrote:
The format Pad is no new idea. The industrial product range use it
since many years.
This is, by the way, one sector likely to be able to limit the
complexity of tasks, as I described in my previous post. In
fact, the possibilities
Kosa wrote:
I ain't no expert on this, but since iPad is being a succesful mobil
device, we could give a chance for a BIGGER Freerunner.
The joy of the Open Design Hardware concept - anyone can design their
own mutant :)
There's a huge market for the big touchscreen devices.
Let's see how
Carsten Haitzler wrote:
no news there and no solution to is unless you design your own
gpu... good luck. :))
I'd worry a lot more about GUI and applications than about any bit
of hardware. Pads in one form or another have been around for a
long time. So far, they weren't particularly
Carsten Haitzler wrote:
if it's hard to communicate - you don't have a sales point.
Yup, that's why I wouldn't belabour that angle for now. Whether and
when the time for selling on open software alone will come depends
on how constrained people feel with the non-open choices, and how
many
Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote:
But if you are making your phone out of beginning of life components
that other people are also using and that have a bit of life to them,
you can sometimes get some components without having to buy 10 million
of them
Hmm, there is an opportunity around beginning
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
I have finally found where the shape and visual appearance of the
Neo1973 and Freerunner come from:
Close :-) I've been told that the case originally came from a
phone intended for the Chinese Olympics. The rounded form would
mimick the outline of the Olympic
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
In business strategy planning it is quite common to separate e.g.
consumer, project, service, solution business types and
markets because they have quite different requirements and attitudes
Yes, I was familiar with the concept but I didn't know the term
Carsten Haitzler wrote:
day. openmoko never made it to be big enough to continue - and ye once you get
big enough, the kind of thing you talk about no longer make business sense (as
you are busy shopping around to telcos who will order millions of devices).
catch 22 :-S
This is where an Open
Carsten Haitzler wrote:
too late for that. the others are in on the game. and now being open enough
is all that's needed. window of opportunity for om and the likes has closed -
or at the best is very close to closed.
I think the advantage is still there, it's just harder to communicate.
Also
Christoph Pulster wrote:
Good luck. Maddog made a lot words about the Brasilian universitary
which should continue the Openmoko project. Nothing happend.
I think it's Sao Paulo you're talking about. USP never promised to
continue the project (even though the press may have mis-interpreted
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
We also had many discussions with project customers and basically they
were happy with the device. And would prefer it over any consumer
oriented device.
Are there actually any stories of project customers whose project
made it past the RD stage and who
Christoph Pulster wrote:
As you already said, companiess who built a solution based on the
Openmoko need a reliable product AND a reliable company behind.
Hmm, I think you're right that there has to be a company that
buffers the customer from the increasingly chaotic (*) inner
layers.
Paul Wise wrote:
Yet another hardware design issue I guess, I'm quite surprised there
isn't a small battery to power the clock like in PCs.
There is. It's called the backup battery. It's the small button
next to the front speaker. Strangely, this battery has a very
pronounced death wish. I.e.,
Christoph Pulster wrote:
project customers: gone, disappointed of all the bugs and problems
Whether the bugs and problem really bother project customers should
depend a lot on what their specific plans are. E.g., if they plan to
have their own user interface anyway, they wouldn't care much about
I wrote:
So I'm not exactly surprised that you don't have hordes of project
customers banging at your door, begging for more FreeRunners.
Perhaps I should clarify that I don't mean to make fun of your
situation. We're all in the same boat here.
But I think it's important to be aware that this
undrwater wrote:
I'm wondering if this is a re-badged product discussed here previously, or
something relatively new?
Looks like something new. It isn't quite clear to me what semantics
they attach to Open, in particular whether the openness is supposed
to come from the mere fact of being an
pike wrote:
And today is a nice day to release what I have
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Pike/Thone
Looks great ! Finally a UI that's friendly also with users who are
hackers ;-)
It would be nice to avoid modal dialogs, like the one in
$TH_MENU_SMSREAD. Why not simply remember the last
Dave Ball wrote:
What's the yard stick for measuring against here? I.e. are we talking
about one-off from digikey/farnell, samples direct from the
manufacturer, or limited-run (couple of hundreds) quantities?
For the full process from RD to mass production, you need to have
channels for
Michael Pilgermann wrote:
the OpenMokoProjects page is back online - thanks to whoever did this.
That would be Joachim. I'll add my thanks too !
Unfortunately, there still appear to be problems with accessing
certain directories, and nobody seems to have an idea (so far)
how to solve these.
Michael Pilgermann wrote:
- for the gforge page itself: I am thankful for all the explainations
about responsilities regarding the site; however, nobody has yet came
up to say: it is me to deal with these problems.
The implied meaning of these explanations was of course that for any
Ken Young wrote:
My two cents: If I were dictator of the gta02-core team (instead of
someone who doesn't even contribute), I would repurpose the device as a
GPS PDA. I would remove all the radio components except for the WiFi,
and try to optimize for the longest battery life possible.
Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
Is it unsuitable for a phone because of power inefficiency?
Can be the ARM Cortex-A8 600Mhz used in a future phone?
There are many component choices for future phones. Things to consider
when choosing chips include:
- do they fit the intended purpose ?
- are they open
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
What about GTA02-core?
Hmm, no plans from my side so far. I prefer to have something
tangible to show when going to conferences :-)
There are still a few months until FOSDEM - by when would a
decision have to be made ?
- Werner
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
Today, with the greatest of pleasure, I am ready to share with you the
birth of our third product -- WikiReader.
Yeah, it has hatched ! Congratulations to you and the rest of the
team, and I hope that this cool little device will be a smashing
success !
- Werner
Stroller wrote:
This barometer is self-contained and connected to the i2c bus, a
_relatively_ simple addition. If there is demand for the barometer -
although I'm inclined to agree with Rask that there wouldn't be - then
it might it be justified to add it were Brazil ever to go into
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
The only sane way to substantially improve booting time is to stop booting
like a desktop PC, that is move away from starting all services just because
you can. Start them on demand and bring only the bare necessities up on boot
(filesystems, dbus, X).
Yes,
Dan Staley wrote:
The glamo.useful? If this work continues...perhaps a rethink of
gta02-core is in order?!
Hmm, I doubt it :) Use one bitmap that's not cached in Glamo memory and
you're back to watching the same old paint dry again. So I still think
gta02-core will run circles around
steven mosher wrote:
2. Build a Copyleft version of the Iphone from scratch. pass me
400Million and I'll get right
on it! But you can't just build the iPhone, you have to build what
apple will ship 18 months
from now to be competitive.
Heh, I'd do it for 40 ;-)
But I think
[ Changed the subject, for we've veered off-topic. ]
pike wrote:
So, what did science fiction *miss* ?
Actually, very little :) One thing that could make voice telecommunication
a lot more attractive would be an avatar who listens and understands.
Voice mail makes many people uncomfortable
pike wrote:
strange, i've never seen it in day-to-day usage.
can't do it on my phone afaik ?
It's certainly one of the more obscure features :) You should be
able to use it by making the first call, then call the next party
and join the calls, and so on. Not sure if any of the Openmoko
distros
Sorry for the cross-post. I've prepared a whitepaper that explains
the documentation requirement of Open Source Hardware to component
vendors.
If you're interested in this topic, please help to review it. The
thread about it is on the gta02-core list:
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
most FOSS. Unless we restrict the Non-G-UI to commandline and
ncurses.
I noticed that is has an escape key. So vi will be fine. What else
could one possibly wish for, except that more GUI designers would
draw their inspiration from the grace and style of vi ? :-)
steven mosher wrote:
A while back Wolfgang mentioned that he and I were starting a new venture.Drop
by and say hello.
And so it has begun ... congratulations and good luck !
May the source be with you :-)
- Werner
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?lvaro Lopes wrote:
But (for example) the gerbers be licensed with a small royalty (1-2
dollars per phone, with a cap of 500,000 to 1,000,000 USD) only if the
party will make *over* 5,000-10,000 phones.
Interesting idea, but would defy the openness of the project IMHO.
I feel a similar
Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote:
A copy of Dr. Zuffo's letter of intent is below. I have the original
PDF if anyone would like to see it, but it was too big to make it
through the community's standards on mailing lists unmoderated, and I
thought you might like to see this as soon as possible.
This
[ Let's give threads that change direction a clearer name than just
Freerunner's Future ]
Fabian Sch?lzel wrote:
I'm not an engineer, but a draftsman, so I could also help with the
mechanical design and modeling of the case and other things related
to the project.
Great ! I think redoing
Adolph J. Vogel wrote:
As a new freerunner owner :) and as a mechanical engineering masters
student, I think this might be an ideal place for me to contribute to
the freerunners future. :)
Yeah ! You may even be able to make this count as a semester or
final project, or similar.
I have done
Christoph Pulster wrote:
While working out a solution, we get stuck on the point the battery has
some coded ID-Chip. This chip is not available on the market.
Also the data can not be copied to another IC because its crypted.
Hmm, I wonder what that would be or what it would do :-)
I
Jeremy McNaughton wrote:
1. That the open source hardware development processes pioneered by
gta02-core get formalized as part of the structure of the new
organization
There's always room for improvements, so I wouldn't nail down too
many details. But the overall goals, i.e., the use of Open
David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote:
* Open Hardware programable Annoy-a-tron 2.0[1] like. (1)
[1]http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/b278/
Sean actually likes pranks very much :-)
(Sadly, I never managed to goad anyone into trying the inverted
coffee cup prank on him, and when I
Jeremy McNaughton wrote:
Scope: What will our mission statement be? Is the foundation just
to support the gta02-core project,
Just a quick remark: please don't concentrate too much on
gta02-core when planning organizational structures for the
future.
The focus of gta02-core is not on making
Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote:
If the Openmoko community is interested in pursuing this, I would be
happy to discuss LI's plans further with you, and how Openmoko could fit
into this.
I think putting gta02-core and similar projects under the wings of
LI is a wonderful idea ! We already discussed
Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
http://www.vimeo.com/5029019
Lovely retro style. Bleeding-edge technology meets the silent
movie. Finally, there's a worthy successor for Metropolis :-)
Someone should make a piano track for it.
- Werner
___
Openmoko community
[ Cross-posted to the community list, since there's been a lot of
discussion about future projects as well. ]
A few people have voiced discomfort with the gta02-core project
dominating the gta03 list, and I have to admit that having us
squat there was more an act of opportunity than a good
Dale Schumacher wrote:
If the concerted efforts of many talented (in some cases even paid)
engineers couldn't achieve that basic milestone, it seems unlikely
that it will be achieved by a loosely-organized group of unpaid (and
demoralized) volunteers.
You can view the situation also as an
Christoph Pulster wrote:
I see ONE active Mailinglist (here) and nothing more worth to mention.
openmoko-kernel used to be very busy. Now it's a bit more quiet
with kernel maintenance being rearranged, but I expect it to
pick up some more activity again before too long.
Also, these days, the
Laszlo KREKACS wrote:
I use the distribution on NAND as an SD card reader.
Hmm, I think we have to distinguish between things you can do and
things that actually make sense here ;-)
Once you've started to fill the niches, it's always unpleasant to
change. That's one reason why it's difficult to
arne anka wrote:
- what reasons make you say, sd is the future?
The main reasons are:
- much easier handling. SD is like a disk, so you can use all the
standard tools and get standard behaviour. NAND needs a lot of
exceptional treatment to properly address wear and factory-bad
blocks.
Sean, thanks for the update !
It is unfortunate that Openmoko Inc. cannot presently continue to
lead the development of the open phone. But then, many a great
undertaking has required more than one effort before reaching its
goal. Anything that brings us closer to that goal is a success in
Doug Jones wrote:
Has this bug been there all along? Does our community's collective
memory have a hole in it?
Seems that it chopped the mail at the line beginning with From.
Not sure where the rest ended up ...
- Werner
___
Openmoko community
roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote:
I booted from flash and SD card for quite some time.
I think it's best to consider Qi as an SD-centric solution and to
plan migrating towards SD.
NAND support is only there because of the GTA01/GTA02 legacy and it
has limitations compared to SD. While technically
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Aother note to all who read this: the Buzz rework is only required if
you have the Buzz problem.
Hmm, wasn't there an environmental component as well, i.e., band and
signal strength ? So changes in the network, e.g., traveling, moving,
or the provider messing
hong zhang wrote:
I like to buy a Atheros SDIO wifi card and can be used in laptop SDIO lot.
Could any one tell me where I can buy it?
Hmm, the only ones I've seen with that shape were development boards.
Atheros might have an idea about whether such modules are available.
If not, maybe try
Sven Klomp wrote:
When I arrived, the whole office was empty. [...]
I'd say your timing was perfect. Your eyes did not betray you, but
it's still too early to draw too many conclusions from what you saw.
I think it may take a few days before there will be any official
information from Openmoko.
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
For sure. When you guys get ready for the first build, I'll find a way
to help. I'm open to donating some parts and time. This is a great
project!
Wonderful, thanks a lot ! Access to parts is probably the single
most important condition for the success of this project.
Nils Faerber wrote:
Wouldn't it be more fruitful to create a project that is only concerned
about providing the best possible tools, hardware and software, for
braking into and reverse engineering existing devices?
There are already a number of projects that do exactly this, such
as OpenEZX
Nils Faerber wrote:
I also know from experience that some parts are really nasty to get -
either you do not get them at all or you have to buy large quantaties of
them.
Oh yes. You wouldn't believe just how often we had that sort of thing
happen to Openmoko. I've learned to treat sourcing with
Nils Faerber wrote:
This would be one of the details I am interested in, i.e. would OpenMoko
Inc. help in making (read as producing) this new design? With its part
stock, manufacturing capabilities, etc.?
Access to components is currently under discussion, yes. There are
at least some
Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
Q1) So, OpenMoko has not committed to building the 10-20 protos?
No, and Openmoko wasn't actually asked for such a commitment, as
it would not fit with the current focus of Openmoko. If Openmoko
or some other company might be interested at some point in time
to produce
Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
Today Openmoko released additional pieces of documentation about
Freerunner hardware: board outline, footprints and netlist.
This is great. Thanks a lot to you and everyone in Openmoko who has
helped to make this happen !
With these files, we'll be able to make a
blokkie wrote:
some of my collegues at work ask why the neo looks like a beer opener .
Was this part of the design ?
Seems that those designers didn't get out much - they missed this
obvious feature.
As far as I know, the case design predates Openmoko. I've heard that
it was originally made
Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
There's a way to detect buzzfix by rapidly switching on and off MICBIAS and
testing if you hear some buzz when recording from builtin mic. Werner has
created a small program to do the switching job.
I'm actually not sure if this approach works. You can hear the
Steve Mosher wrote:
hardware world. I'll use another metaphor. Building hardware requires
a waterfall design process, at least in my experience. In the software
world, outside of DOD and NASA, we'd be hard pressed to find projects
that followed a strict waterfall model.
Hmm, I think one
Lothar Behrens wrote:
I mentioned KICAD (http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/DE:Main_Page
KiCad is probably the Open Source EDA system that's closest to
being up to the task. But I still wonder if it can really do it.
Don't get me wrong. I use KiCad for everything I do privately
and I
Marcel wrote:
That's the selling point for us more-or-less nerds. But the average
oh-the-iphone-has-so-nice-bling-bling-user cannot see the value an open phone
has for us [...]
I think they see it, indirectly. If the openness attracts developers,
they build things. First they build things
Helge Hafting wrote:
Hm. But the glamo supports _some_ format. Will X11 be able to take
advantage of that, if the app is smart and request exactly the subsets
of blending operations/dataformats that the glamo can do?
That would be a question for the X11 gurus.
I have such a script for sms,
Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote:
it is a new virtual terminal for Openmoko, with a complete fullscreen
keyboard and sound.
Wow, I love this idea ! Alas, it looks a little slow. (Haven't tried to
run it yet, just looked at the videos.)
Here's an idea how you could perhaps make it much faster:
A
Andy Green wrote:
Hi yourself... I guess you must have started using Openmoko build system
then because last time we spoke about it you were avoiding it same as me
- -- for the same reasons.
I think you misunderstood me there - I wasn't referring to myself when
I mentioned the angelic patience
John Lee wrote:
opkg-target update
opkg-target install libjana-dev
Sure beats the manual approach :-)
A little while ago, I built a program that uses SDL, and this is what
I came up with:
for n in \
libsdl-1.2-0_1.2.9-r5_armv4t.ipk libsdl-1.2-dev_1.2.9-r5_armv4t.ipk \
steve wrote:
Werner doesn't even know he was the inspiration.
Oh, *now* I'm curious :-)
- Werner
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Graeme Gregory wrote:
This has been a long requested feature and its finally ready to be
unleashed on the world.
One less pleasant feature of this ipkg is that a freshly built rootfs
image will still execute /usr/lib/ipkg/info/kernel-image-*.postinst
which then wipes out the hard-coded
John Lee wrote:
Yes, I met this one before and I solved it by 1).
Okay, that's good enough for me. Just wanted to know where you're
heading. BTW, what I need this for are the u-boot and kernel build
scripts, trunk/src/target/*/scripts/
This environment setting is dumped and modified from OE
John Lee wrote:
http://downloads.openmoko.org/toolchains/openmoko-x86_64-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2
I found one little problem with setup-env: when I try to build u-boot
or the kernel with it, ld fails due to the LDFLAGS, which are defined
as follows:
export
Graeme Gregory wrote:
There is unfortunately a bug in the kernel, a workaround for this was
introduced with the November 2007 snapshot.
It's this one:
http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=567
- Werner
___
OpenMoko community
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The centered, 4.5 Diag *Finger Touch* screen with one thumb width of
grip space on either end of a basically rectangular device is a
Golden Form Factor.
Interesting, so we got it almost right ? Screen size is of course
different, but you could probably case-mod the
Adam Krikstone wrote:
6. There needs to be some kind of openmokoforums.com.
forums.openmoko.org ? We could certainly create that.
posting, My phone doesn't work. Help me.
We actually have brokenmoko.com/org for these ;-)
- Werner
___
OpenMoko
Phil Schaffner wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/35bkor
Picture caller ID
That fellow is certainly way ahead of the rest of us, including
the OpenMoko team ;-)
- Werner
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Adam Krikstone wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=472DE700A3CC70A4
Hot shit ! I hope you realize what sort of productivity killer
for OpenMoko mission control you've created :-)
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner
know. Street names aren't very useful, but knowing
roughly where the other person is at the moment, would be.
Directing a taxi to the other person's location should be fun,
though ;-)
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger
don't think they
pursue this light-weight and real-time approach quite to the same
extent.
Anyone feeling like giving it a try ?
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http
Nick Johnson wrote:
Why not just use NMEA sentences directly? They're simple to read, and
more versatile.
Sure. Just wanted to skip the math and modularize the thing.
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires
.
On the software side, we use OpenOCD.
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net
junkyard, and I'm a
messy person. So please don't jump to conclusions when sifting
through it.
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net
to the ml for the stuff you are hacking on: u-boot, kernel,
application...
For reasonably self-contained small projects, we also have
projects.openmoko.org
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL
! :-)
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net//
___
OpenMoko
-letter functions are basically unreadable (while
unsplashed).
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net//
___
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community
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net//
___
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community
work for a lunch break project.)
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net
the LogicPort: http://www.pctestinstruments.com/
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net
still do, of course. And that's
when the second chip kicks in.
- Werner
--
_
/ Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina [EMAIL PROTECTED] /
/_http://www.almesberger.net
to ask Harald for comments on USB (among other things,
he implemented DFU in u-boot), but my impression is that it's hard
and messy enough that nobody wants to maintain yet another stack.
- Werner
--
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/ Werner Almesberger
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