Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?

2008-08-05 Thread ian douglas
Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) wrote:
 Yes, we don't have unified warranty policy yet, but this does not mean 
 we don't take the responsibility for user get bad devices.

Define bad...

It's a little vague -- does 'bad' simply mean DOA like was announced by
Steve several months ago regarding the 14-day/28-day DOA warranty, or
does 'bad' mean phones that turn on but don't have functioning hardware ?

Thanks for working with the rest of the team to come to some consensus
on what the warranty is all about.

-id

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Re: SD Card Fix Fubar

2008-08-04 Thread ian douglas
Scott Derrick wrote:
 Not sure how to proceed now.  Is Openmoko going to be taking FR's back 
 for repairs?


Several of us have asked whether trying the hardware fix will void/limit 
our warranties on the Freerunners, but I don't recall seeing any 
official answer from Openmoko one way or the other, or even any 
description as to what sort of warranty we have on the Freerunners at all.

I've asked in a separate thread, I've seen other requests on various 
GPS/SD threads about it too.

Has *anyone* seen any warranty-related text on the mailing list lately 
from an @openmoko.com person?

-id

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Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?

2008-08-04 Thread ian douglas
Sean/Michael/Community:

It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes 
and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm 
hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself 
out and we'll get an answer.

The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we 
need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? 
My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got 
a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, 
but we've never been told what the warranty includes.

I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning 
it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list 
archives anyway.

Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at 
a hardware level?

Thanks,
Ian

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Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?

2008-08-04 Thread ian douglas
Guys,

My intention was not to create a message thread for people to vent about
what they like or not about the Freerunner. I created the thread to get
an official stance from Openmoko about the state of the warranty, and if
it would cover any hardware fix offered by OM for the GPS/SD problems.

-id


ian douglas wrote:
 Sean/Michael/Community:
 
 It's been asked several times, especially regarding the GPS/SD fixes 
 and people ordering pico-farad capacitors and soldering irons ... I'm 
 hoping that at some point the squeaky wheel cliche will work itself 
 out and we'll get an answer.
 
 The boxes the Freerunners came in gave no information about warranty, we 
 need to hear from Openmoko about what exactly the warranty does cover? 
 My understanding of the warranty time limit is that single purchases got 
 a 14-day warranty, and group purchases were given a 28-day warranty, 
 but we've never been told what the warranty includes.
 
 I'd really like to outline some of this on the wiki since we're cleaning 
 it all up, etc., and since few users will ever search the mailing list 
 archives anyway.
 
 Will it include any recall/repairs needed to fix the GPS/SD problems at 
 a hardware level?
 
 Thanks,
 Ian
 
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Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?

2008-08-01 Thread ian douglas
Ken Restivo wrote:
 They actually hire people to sit around and snoop people's UserAgent strings?

It's easy to automate since surfing non-SSL sites should send your HTTP
headers in plain text, so they you can simply watch the packets and keep
track of data counts, browsers, etc. for each wireless account.

 Their unlimited data plan used to be $20/month but they raised it to $30 
 for the new iPhone. Tethering adds even more because they expect that 
 you'll be downloading much more data than users who don't tether.
 
 So unlimited data isn't unlimited at all?

As far as I've seen, personally, it's unlimited. Of course, I tend not
to tether my ATT phone to my laptop and download ISO-sized files or
anything. I'm sure if you reach a certain amount of traffic, they'll
notice you. Last month I only downloaded about 60MB on my phone.

 But I'm told that Sprint Metro PCS allows unlimited data, and tethering, for 
 US$60/mo

That's slightly cheaper than ATT then, who charges me $69/month for
unlimited data plus tethering.

-id

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Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?

2008-07-31 Thread ian douglas
Ken Restivo wrote:
 Is there a specific limit? How do they *know* you are tethering? What are the 
 overage fees and where are they detailed?


 From what I've read, they watch your traffic for things like user agent 
strings (if they see an HTTP header specifying that you're using 
Firefox, it's a sure thing you're tethering since Firefox doesn't have a 
mobile browser yet), or that they watch for traffic levels that exceed 
your phone's capacity. For example, if you surf and browse more than a 
few GB of traffic (ie: torrent downloads) chances are good that you're 
tethering since your phone will only natively hold about 200MB of 
content plus whatever your SD card will hold.

As for overage fees, it's whatever they charge you based on your 
current plan. For example if you don't HAVE a data plan, they'll hit you 
with pretty heavy fees. Even at 0.01/kb on the MediaNet plan, they 
expect all of your content will come through their MediaNet browser. 
That's $10 per 1 MB of data over their limit, which frankly isn't hard 
to do these days.

Their unlimited data plan used to be $20/month but they raised it to $30 
for the new iPhone. Tethering adds even more because they expect that 
you'll be downloading much more data than users who don't tether.

-id

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Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?

2008-07-29 Thread ian douglas
You'll probably need the PDA Personal plan, that's what they recommend
to smartphone users, which the Freerunner will qualify as, in their opinion.

But GPRS data transfer is still being worked on, so hold off paying the
$30/month for unlimited data just yet.

-id


Dimitri wrote:
 I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and
 text messages.
 
 (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a
 hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.)
 
 Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner?
 
 There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for
 unlimited.
 
 I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of
 others.
 
 Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko?
 
 D

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Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?

2008-07-29 Thread ian douglas
Just don't try tethering (using your phone as a modem) on their cheap
data plan, or they'll hit you with overage fees or tell you to convert
to the smarthphone plan.

-id


Steven ** wrote:
 My understanding is that it's marketing BS and there isn't much (if
 any) difference between those unlimited data plans.  The difference
 seems to be what ATT is willing to sell you.  If you have a crappy
 old phone, they'll sell you a cheap data plan because they figure you
 won't use it.  If you have a smartphone, they figure you might
 actually be able to and want to browse the web and therefore charge
 you more.
 
 What I'm thinking of trying is taking my old, crappy flip-phone into
 the store when asking about data plans.  That should get me the cheap
 plan.  Then just pop the SIM card back into my Neo.  I'm betting I'll
 have full internet.  Worst case scenario: I'll have to tunnel
 everything through port 80.
 
 -Steven
 
 On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Dimitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and
 text messages.

 (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a
 hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.)

 Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner?

 There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for
 unlimited.

 I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of
 others.

 Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko?

 D
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p640134.html
 Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?

2008-07-29 Thread ian douglas
Yes, to my knowledge, GPRS data transfer is not yet automated and not
working out-of-the-box.

A few people on the list have shared instructions on how they got it to
at least connect to their carrier to get an IP address, but I haven't
tried it myself on my ATT (contract) SIM yet.

-id


Dimitri wrote:
 Ian,
 When you say GPRS data transfer is still being worked on does that mean it
 doesn't currently work?
 
 I ask because my ATT pay-as-you-go plan has MediaNet data access included,
 for $.01 / kb.
 
 But if I try to connect to a web page, it won't connect. (Using my local
 WiFi or USB connection, it connects fine.)
 
 Could it be an issue with my 3g blazing sim? I would guess no, since it
 works just fine when making/receiving calls and text messages.
 
 Dimitri
 
 
 ian douglas-2 wrote:
 You'll probably need the PDA Personal plan, that's what they recommend
 to smartphone users, which the Freerunner will qualify as, in their
 opinion.

 But GPRS data transfer is still being worked on, so hold off paying the
 $30/month for unlimited data just yet.

 -id

 Dimitri wrote:
 Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko?
 

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Re: GSM detection/identification

2008-07-29 Thread ian douglas
Paul Buede wrote:
 the coverage isn't great in the rural areas I find myself.  When driving
 around, if out of reach of tmobile, it will say registering as if
 there is no sim card.  But, on the little image of the antenna, that
 shows how strong my connection is, I still have 2 bars.  Is that a bad
 guage of connectivity?


As far as I recall, TMobile only uses the higher-frequency band, (1800
or 1900? I can never remember), and probably won't drop down to the
850MHz band unless they've signed an agreement with ATT to piggyback on
their lower-frequency network in the rural areas where you've been.

-id


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Re: new list for wiki (and other documentation) maintainers, and anyone interested in helping them

2008-07-28 Thread ian douglas
Joachim Steiger wrote:
 ian douglas wrote:
 Michael,

 Can you alter the mailing list so the list's address is set as the
 default Reply-To value like the community list?
 
 please not.
 
 Simply hitting Reply (instead of Reply-to-All) seems to send replies to
 the authors of the posts.
 
 thats how it needs to be. thats what your reply-to-all button is for.

But the community list is not set up that way, thus my request:

 Might as well keep things uniform in that regard.



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Re: Openmoko on Design

2008-07-28 Thread ian douglas
ezuall wrote:
 Potential, that is the first word that comes to mind when I think about and
 play with my freerunner.  I spent months absolutely obsessively waiting for
 the release, but when I first received it I was afraid.

I agree, there's unlimited potential.

To be honest, I was all hyped about the Freerunner, even throughout the
beta testing period before they became available for purchase, and
gladly took the risk of making a purchase for the Los Angeles group buy.

I should admit though, that despite my zeal, I'm still quite confused
myself on the whole ASU/FSO/Qtopia/2007.2 framework splits, as Jay
Vaughan has pointed out a few times.

To some degree, Sean's Email helped ease my confusion -- I see Openmoko
like Linux Torvalds (which Michele brought up) -- Openmoko has an idea
of where they want to get the phone to a basic usable state and to
where we community hacker/members can start adding on top of it and
making the device a household name. Openmoko has their tool of choice,
but don't care what other people develop for the phone, I'm sure the
same way Linux Torvalds probably doesn't care whether an end user
utilizes GNOME vs KDE.

And while Openmoko is working on their own framework, I have to agree
with many other voices: knowing which platform to develop for, as a
developer myself, is confusing. I don't like the thought of having to
write multiple versions of an application that caters to GTK and Qt
separately, although I recall that the FSO framework is trying to bridge
that gap. But I also don't want to have to market my application as
only works on 2007.2/FSO because I use GTK because that's the route I
chose to build my app.

I guess I personally envisioned the Neo1973 (GTA01) as the base model
for developers and that the Freerunner was going to have a smoother
transition into the mainstream. I agree with Sean (and several others)
that the Freerunner gets them a step closer, but Openmoko still relies
heavily on the feedback (and *participation*) of the community.

As far as design goes, I understood Sean's Email to say that they
don't care how we build what we build on the phone, and that even the
design of the phone (ie: case) is open to us on all levels to make it
whatever we want it to be. They're going to focus on their own framework
and hardware issues, and let us do what we do best as a community.

I still hold to a quote from Andy Powell on the community list, which
emphasizes that we all need to pitch in where we can. I agree, not all
of us have super-godlike programming skillz, and not all of us are
fluent in several languages to write the wiki, but we can ALL chip in
here and there if we're on the same page:

If everyone put as much effort into development as they do into
bitching and whining this phone would be able to cure cancer by now.
- Andy Powell, May 6, 2008


Personally, I signed up to help manage the wiki to make it a better
source of information. I haven't got the time to invest into
kernel-level development or any hard-core programming, but I *do* have
time to review a wiki page or two every single day, and will do what I
can. If everybody had the same level of cooperation, this project would
be radically different.

At the same time, there are always going to be groups of people who are
more likely to be vocal than helpful, that's why someone coined the
phrase about how 10% of the people do 90% of the work. We will
*always* have to deal with the same questions on the mailing list over
and over and have to watch for, and manage, duplicate content on the
wiki because someone doesn't know how to use a search function. That's a
given. Instead of being harsh on these people and speaking negatively,
here's a thought: be helpful. We're only going to alienate people if we
tell people their thoughts are nonsense/worthless and RTFM n00b.

I feel that Sean has just given us (or perhaps just reiterated what
should have already been known), as a community, the means to empower
ourselves to help on *everything* about the Openmoko project as a whole.
We wanted an open platform, and it's been given to us. We're *all* part
of that design.

Just my $0.02...

-id

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Re: Suggestion: default /etc/resolv.conf

2008-07-24 Thread ian douglas
Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
 Much better to get resolv.conf, along with IP address, from DHCP.

Typically, I'd agree -- except the Freerunner doesn't get its IP from 
DHCP for the USB port, which is where pretty much all of the DNS 
questions come from to the list (until GRPS starts working reliably...)

Personally I don't think there's any harm in having an open/public DNS 
server pair in the default out-of-the-box /etc/resolv.conf file. In 
fact, I bundled a whole bunch of configuration files together for wifi, 
dns, etc. for the guys who were part of the Los Angeles group -- first 
thing I did for most of them was get that tarball unpacked on their 
Freerunners. Saved them all some grief.

-id

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Re: new list for wiki (and other documentation) maintainers, and anyone interested in helping them

2008-07-23 Thread ian douglas
Michael,

Can you alter the mailing list so the list's address is set as the
default Reply-To value like the community list?

Simply hitting Reply (instead of Reply-to-All) seems to send replies to
the authors of the posts.

Might as well keep things uniform in that regard.

Thanks,
Ian


Michael Shiloh wrote:
 Hi,
 
 A number of community members have volunteered to put time into our 
 wiki. There followed some discussion about how best to proceed, and 
 quickly a suggestion was made to create a separate list to allow this 
 coordination to take place without bothering those uninterested.
 
 After a number of suggestions, we agreed to name the new mailing list 
 simply wiki.
 
 In spite of this, I decided to take a different approach and named the 
 new mailing list documentation.
 
 The reason is simple: All documentation needs to be coordinated: wiki, 
 web pages, printed, etc. There is rarely a reason to duplicate what is 
 already available, and by focusing on what is documented nowhere we make 
 good use of our time. Also, it is common for one form of documentation 
 to refer to another, and changes should be synchronized. Finally, a 
 consistent theme be very nice.
 
  From a practical point of view, 95% of our current documentation is in 
 fact just the wiki, so I don't think it will make much of a difference 
 anyway. We don't need to worry about wiki maintainers being drowned out 
 by our other documentors.
 
 And finally, if this really is a problem we can change it.
 
 SO:
 
 If you volunteered to be a wiki maintainer, please visit 
 https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/documentation and sign up 
 for the new list.
 
 If you are interested in following the discussion, or have suggestions 
 or other helpful comments please join as well. This list is not 
 restricted to those doing the work.
 
 Please note that the list is primarily intended to help the wiki 
 maintainers and other documentation organizers coordinate amongst 
 themselves in order to improve our documentation. We intend for a high 
 signal-to-noise ratio, and threads not deemed sufficiently useful will 
 be requested to move elsewhere.
 
 Please show your appreciation to the wiki maintainers by using the list 
 for its intended purpose.
 
 I am on the list, and I welcome your feedback and comments on the list 
 if your comments move us towards the goal of improving our 
 documentation, or privately otherwise.
 
 Sincerely,
 Michael
 
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Re: GPS software fix, just CRUFT?

2008-07-22 Thread ian douglas
Scott Derrick wrote:
 With the GPS hardware fix done(10pf cap installed) are the software
 changes to the kernel/modules just added cruft?  IE. do they add
 anything useful?


They save people from destroying their Freerunners trying to do some
amateur-level soldering or ordering incorrect capacitors. ;o)

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Re: [qtopia on freerunner] - What is the right place to discuss Qtopia on Openmoko?

2008-07-20 Thread ian douglas
Lorn Potter wrote (on 2008-07-11 02:12pm):
 6. Installing QPK apps - Is this possible? I would like to run a 
 terminal (the Konsole port) and any other useful/cool apps. I don't know 
 how to go about this. I've copied some QPK files to the /home/root on 
 the device, but how can these be installed? Or can they?
 
 They need to be on a web server/feed.
 I will set up such a feed this week at qtopia.net


Hey Lorn, any luck on getting a web feed available for the QPK apps?
(and are there any available?)

Your site is inaccessible in the Denver area at the moment (2:15am
here), as I'm trying to find an actual server URL to place within
/home/root/Applications/packagemanager/ServersList.conf to download a
list of available apps. I remembered you saying you wanted to have
something up this past week so thought I'd check in.

Cheers,
Ian

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Re: ATT SIM Card Doesn't Work, says registering

2008-07-19 Thread ian douglas
Yochai Gal wrote:
 went down to the local ATT store, they swapped me a new SIM, it makes
 and receives call, there's an echo on speakerphone, and it won't read my
 contacts off my sim.

Dumb question, but did ATT copy your contacts from the old SIM to the
new SIM?

-id

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Re: What *is* the warranty on the Freerunners?

2008-07-17 Thread ian douglas
never did see an update on this from anyone at OpenMoko ?

-id


ian douglas wrote:
 That is, what does it cover?
 
 I have a box of Freerunners beside me, but they've been purchased as a
 bulk order for 10 other buyers, so I don't want to open the boxes to see
 if there's any warranty information inside.
 
 My impression was that the 14-day warranty on single units and 28-day
 warranty on bulk orders was to cover DOA units only. That if the whole
 thing failed to power on despite charging, etc.etc. that it could be
 returned.
 
 Does the warranty cover more than this? ie: if we only have a 14/28 day
 warranty to return a broken Freerunner, who has communicated to us what
 defines broken ?
 
 There's obviously been a huge amount of traffic on the list today about
 the GPS unit in the Freerunners and Joerg has hinted at a possible
 hardware fix to follow a software fix in the kernel. Does our warranty
 cover recalls for fixes like this? If the hardware fix occurs after
 our 14/28 day warranty period, does that mean we'll have to incur some
 cost for the fix besides shipping the units back to OpenMoko?
 
 I'd also like to add this warranty info on the wiki.
 
 -id
 
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Re: Updates

2008-07-16 Thread ian douglas
arne anka wrote:
 opkg update was ok but then upgrade ran until my ssh connection was  
 dropped.
 
 dunno why dropbear drops the connection on upgrade, ususally existing  
 connections shouldn't be affected.

When you upgrade dropbear it does a full stop/start on the service, not
an equivalent of a 'reload'. I agree though that existing connections
*shouldn't* be affected, but we saw it several times last night with the
Los Angeles bulk order group and doing 'opkg upgrade' on several phones.

-id


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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread ian douglas
Yorick Moko wrote:
 maybe it would help if there was standard a button to click on to
 suspend the phone (maybe label it Suspend(Bèta)) because it seems most
 people are not aware of something other than dimlock


If someone's going to get into adding buttons:
Our group last night agreed having a 'reboot' button would be nice too,
instead of just the 'shutdown' button and having to manually re-power
the phone.

-id

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Re: In the press

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
Vinc Duran wrote:
 As a /user/ I'd really like it if there were always an easy to find 
 place for what is known to work.

There's a LOT of info on the wiki but it can be a little daunting to 
find the newest this is what works kind of information. Is there any 
way to move the last edited marker at the bottom of each wiki page to 
the *top* of the page where it's more apparent?

Searching the wiki for Freerunner GPS returns 159 different articles 
spanning multiple languages, etc. Being able to sort the results by edit 
date would sure be handy.

-id


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
Considering you need to remove the battery and SIM to install a microSD
card, probably not :o)

Olivier Migeot wrote:
 Maybe we should only insert the card once the fix is acquired. At
 least at times where we want to use both GPS and SD. Not much of a
 solution, but it still act as a workaround (provided the GPS is able
 to keep the fix once the SD is re-inserted).
 
 On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Eildert Groeneveld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes, TTFF less than 2min with the SD card removed.

 E

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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
For those that follow the devel and commitlog lists, there was a patch 
submitted by Andy Green @ Openmoko on the 13th suggesting that an 
increase in voltage to the GPS workings might help. I haven't tried this 
myself.

The note attached said:
GPS internal antenna issue appears to respond positively to cranking 
RF_3V to 3.6V from 3.0V.

Perhaps Torfinn's last Email was right: it may not be an EMC problem but 
a lack of voltage?

-id


thomasg wrote:
 Hi ppl,
 
 I write this to community, not to devel or owners because everyone 
 should know:
 _sbeh_, one of the people in #neo1973-germany IRC-channel found the 
 reason for the GPS problems.
 The problem only occurs if a SD card is set in. Doesn't matter if it's 
 mounted or in use, it just has to sit in the socket.
 The TTFF went from no fix at all to TTFF 120 seconds indoor(!!!), and 
 about 40 seconds outdoor.
 Two other people could verify this with about the same results.
 We'll do more tests later, but for now we surely know what's causing the 
 problem (and it seems to be a EMC problem).
 
 First results show at the same devices, even outdoor, that there is no 
 fix in over 400 seconds with SD card, the signal seems to be at least 10 
 to 20 dB worse (so bad, that most satellites don't even appear).
 
 Testresults from other people appreciated.
 
 thomasg
 
 
 
 
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Re: In the press

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
ideas for domain names:

freerunner.info
freeyourphone.com/.org
moko.mobi -- a mobi version of the site, browsable on mobile devices
like the Freerunner would be awesome, typically just a skin on whichever
cms/wiki engine you choose


Curtis Vaughan wrote:
 Since Ken really liked OpenWRT's Wiki, I looked at it and see they use 
 MoinMoin. So, I am willing to set up MoinMoin on a server to be used as 
 an FR community wiki. 
 If people think it's a good idea then I will set up a website for it and 
 register it. Perhaps something like mokofanbox.org or whatever. I don't 
 really care. I can register it and I will make it available to whomever 
 can administer it. Jay seems to be willing. 
 Anyhow, if that's what will help us out then just give me the green light 
 and I'll do that much. If it works out - Great!
 
 Curtis
 
 
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Re: Los Angeles group order is on its way!

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
Los Angeles order arrived this morning. One box had 10 Freerunners, the
second box had a debug board (ordered by one person on the bulk order)
and 10 pouches and headsets.

-id


ian douglas wrote:
 I received the UPS notice for order 1843 (bulk order) about 10 minutes
 ago and updated the where's my freerunner? wiki page. Our ETA is July
 15, with 2nd day air shipping confirmed by UPS.
 
 -id
 
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Re: In the press

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
I'll have time to help out as well starting next week. I wonder if we
could get the OM techs to create another mailing list started like
[EMAIL PROTECTED] so we can communicate to one another
about organization plans, etc.

The other thing to consider, as well, is what Brenda's role is with
regards to the wiki. As I understood it, managing the wiki was her
position within the company. Obviously a daunting task for a single
person, so perhaps we need to make sure she's in the loop, or managing
the team, etc.

Like Josh, I can give a few hours per week to make the wiki a less
confusing place to be.

-id


Josh Monson wrote:
 I will volunteer a few hours each week towards this. 
 
 Editing, cleanup, moving content, updating content, organization,
 etc.
 
 I'm in. 
 
 John Reese or Torfinn are you 2 also volunteering? That would make 3.
 Who else? We need a list of names so we can start firing this project
 up. 
 
 I bought this phone for the specific purpose of what is happening right
 now with this list, and where it will take the phone :)
 
 Cheers
 
 
 I use trillian but here is my info, feel free to add me IF you are
 interested in this part of the project :)
 
 westcoastmonson  :hotmail:
 westcoastmonson  :yahoo:
 westcoastmonson1 :aim:
 422809032:irc:
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Reese
 Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:15 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: In the press
 
 Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
 Hello,

 On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Well thats definitely a very nice proposal, but I would like to hold
 off a bit on recreating a whole new wiki .. what I had in mind was
 more of a blog/feed style site, not necessarily another wiki setup ..
 As have been said before in this thread: what we (the Openmoko
 community) need is a wiki editors group.
 Any volunteers?
 The wiki editors group would help each other (and other contributors)
 to improve the wiki, by creating information management, writing and
 style guidelines, guiding and teaching wiki contributors, and editing
 the wiki itself.

 Initially, the group could consist of the people most active in
 editing the wiki already. Further recruitment could be based on
 quality and quantity of contributions to the wiki.

 Of course the Wiki editors would have a hall of fame page on the
 wiki that would describe the tasks that the group do, list the names
 of the editors (and perhaps what period they acted in that role?) and
 so on

 Any volunteers now?

 Anyway, just an idea.
 
 This sounds like a good idea.  I'm certainly willing to put my time in 
 to clean things up.  I've been doing some of it already when I come 
 across things that either aren't clear or aren't linked well.
 
 If we could gather a team of four, maybe five/six, community members, 
 and devise/discuss a plan to organize and clean up the wiki, and then 
 get everyone in the mailing lists, IRC, etc to promote and encourage use
 
 and modifying the wiki, I think it would go a very long way.
 

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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
 The note attached said:
 GPS internal antenna issue appears to respond positively to cranking 
 RF_3V to 3.6V from 3.0V.
 
 it is a SNR issue for sure, and to boost SNR you either
 boost signal (which is what voltage raise does) or you reduce noise
 (which what removal of SD card seems to be doing).

Andy submitted another patch within the last day or so that toyed with
the voltage levels of the SD circuitry, but his notes indicate that it's
more to do with data stability than noise/interference with the GPS unit.

-id

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What *is* the warranty on the Freerunners?

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
That is, what does it cover?

I have a box of Freerunners beside me, but they've been purchased as a
bulk order for 10 other buyers, so I don't want to open the boxes to see
if there's any warranty information inside.

My impression was that the 14-day warranty on single units and 28-day
warranty on bulk orders was to cover DOA units only. That if the whole
thing failed to power on despite charging, etc.etc. that it could be
returned.

Does the warranty cover more than this? ie: if we only have a 14/28 day
warranty to return a broken Freerunner, who has communicated to us what
defines broken ?

There's obviously been a huge amount of traffic on the list today about
the GPS unit in the Freerunners and Joerg has hinted at a possible
hardware fix to follow a software fix in the kernel. Does our warranty
cover recalls for fixes like this? If the hardware fix occurs after
our 14/28 day warranty period, does that mean we'll have to incur some
cost for the fix besides shipping the units back to OpenMoko?

I'd also like to add this warranty info on the wiki.

-id

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Re: What *is* the warranty on the Freerunners?

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
On of my bulk buyers was cool enough to permit me to open his Freerunner
box -- no documentation of any kind that explains anything about a warranty.

Can someone at OM shed a little light so we can post it on the wiki?

-id


ian douglas wrote:
 That is, what does it cover?
 
 I have a box of Freerunners beside me, but they've been purchased as a
 bulk order for 10 other buyers, so I don't want to open the boxes to see
 if there's any warranty information inside.
 
 My impression was that the 14-day warranty on single units and 28-day
 warranty on bulk orders was to cover DOA units only. That if the whole
 thing failed to power on despite charging, etc.etc. that it could be
 returned.
 
 Does the warranty cover more than this? ie: if we only have a 14/28 day
 warranty to return a broken Freerunner, who has communicated to us what
 defines broken ?
 
 There's obviously been a huge amount of traffic on the list today about
 the GPS unit in the Freerunners and Joerg has hinted at a possible
 hardware fix to follow a software fix in the kernel. Does our warranty
 cover recalls for fixes like this? If the hardware fix occurs after
 our 14/28 day warranty period, does that mean we'll have to incur some
 cost for the fix besides shipping the units back to OpenMoko?
 
 I'd also like to add this warranty info on the wiki.
 
 -id
 
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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
Hugo Mills wrote:
 I think they've done pretty damn well
 to get a plausible fix out of the door inside a day.

Well, more than a day. The development list has had patch info from Andy
Green over a few days outlining his testing on voltage increases and
decreases on the GPS and Sd circuits.

Still, I'm also very happy that they've identified it and working on a fix.

-id


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Re: Wiki editors

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
Michael Shiloh wrote:
 +1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED]

+1 here

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Los Angeles group sales all completed

2008-07-15 Thread ian douglas
Hey all,

Except for one guy who couldn't make it, the whole Los Angeles group
sales crew showed up tonight at The Rubicon Project where I work to pick
up their Freerunners and spend some time configuring them, doing some
opkg updates, installing minimo, etc.

Thanks for a great transaction guys!

Ian

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Re: warranty issues

2008-07-14 Thread ian douglas
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
 This is Openmoko. If you /don't/ open your Neo, you should probably have 
 your warranty voided ;-)


Wow, second best quote I've ever seen on this list.

The first being back in early May...
Andy Powell wrote:
 Seriously, If everyone put as much effort into development as they do
 into bitching and whining this phone would be able to cure cancer by
 now.

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Re: Fast questions (email, GPRS, WiFi...)

2008-07-14 Thread ian douglas
Steve / Brenda,

Are there any solid instructions yet on getting GPRS data working?

-id


steve wrote:
  Brenda,
 
get the instructions for using WIFI on freerunner posted to the wiki.
 
Michael assist.
 
 Steve
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
 Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 4:32 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: Fast questions (email, GPRS, WiFi...)
 
 Diego Fernández Durán wrote:
   - Is there any UI to conect using WiFi? and with GPRS?
 - Is network-manager been ported?
   - The NM backend?
   - Anybody is doing an UI for this?
 
 
 I havne't seen any wifi UI applicaiton yet. I SSH'd into my Freerunner,
 edited /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf to alter the essid and key,
 typed ifup eth0, then unplugged the USB cable, opened a terminal, ran
 ifconfig usb0 down, opened the browser and navigated just fine.
 
 After rebooting, it seems that usb0 is auto-activated, and while the Wifi
 device is supposedly 'on', it doesn't appear in an ifconfig dump ... I ran
 ifconfig down usb0 and ifup eth0 and it failed to connect to the wifi
 using my recently-edited wpa_supplicant.conf file.
 
 I'm sure somebody is working on an app to automate this, but they'll have to
 rearrange the priority of routing traffic in the app so a user can specify
 start up the wifi and use that connect as the default route.
 
 -id
 
 
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Any update on Windows connectivity yet?

2008-07-14 Thread ian douglas
One of my bulk order buyers has prompted a question about whether there
have been any advances with connecting a Freerunner to a Windows PC?

Last I tried mine on an XP laptop, it detected a device but wanted
drivers to communicate.

Couldn't find anything relevant on a search at openmoko.markmail.org

-id

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Re: Keyboard missing forward-slash key

2008-07-14 Thread ian douglas
Stroller wrote:
 On 14 Jul 2008, at 20:20, ian douglas wrote:
 edit /etc/multitap-pad/im-multipress.conf
 I added / and | to my '1' key.
 
 looking at /etc/multitap-pad/im-multipress.conf it appears
 that both back- and forward-slashes are mapped to KP_0 on the default
 factory image.
 
 However multiple taps to the 0 key do not produce the other
 characters I'd expect.


... which is why I added the characters to my '1' key. :o)

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Re: incorrect shipment type?

2008-07-14 Thread ian douglas
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:
 On 2008-07-11, Yaroslav Halchenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 we ordered it with 2nd-day air it got shipped Ground, thus instead of 2
 days we have to expect it in 1 week.
 
 Don't you overreact? I think a few extra days will not kill you.
 I understand you want them ASAP, but it is prob. too late to
 change anything now.


There's also the matter of being *charged* for 2nd day air shipment and
getting ground shipment... and getting the shipping difference refunded.

-id


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Re: Can OM's wiki be used offline?

2008-07-14 Thread ian douglas
Matt Joyce wrote:
 
 mokopedia brings the whole wikipedia to your openmoko phone even while
 being offline because all articles will reside on an attached microSD card.
 http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/mokopedia/

Is this project still being maintained though? The latest tarball and
news are from September 2007, and the three forum messages in written in
2008 have gone unanswered.

For starters, the tarball should have its files packaged in a subfolder;
that's a pretty standard practice. Second, there are no instructions on
how to use it either in the 'Docs' section of the project site, or
within the tarball itself on how to launch the script or how to
configure it, etc.

It's bundled as a .cgi Perl script, which leads me to believe it should
be run from a web server, not from the Freerunner's command line as an
application.

Also, anyone testing this package will need:

$ opkg install perl-module-encode perl-module-encode-encoding

Running the script looks like it's just a web-based front-end for
searching a pre-built database, again which there are no instructions
for creating.

I, like others, agree that a mobile version of the OM wiki would be
invaluable. I can't imagine the strain on the wiki server from everyone
suddenly doing recursive wget launches ;o)

-id

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Re: Can OM's wiki be used offline?

2008-07-14 Thread ian douglas
Maybe we could get someone at OpenMoko to install a plugin for MediaWiki 
and export the content every night as a cron job on their web server:

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML



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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-11 Thread ian douglas
Federico Lorenzi wrote:
 Makes sense, ext3 is journaled, and using a journaling FS on flash
 memory is generally a bad idea. Could you also try ext2?

Sorry, I'm not up to speed on flash and file systems -- why is a
journaled file system a bad idea?


I re-ran all of my tests on the new 8GB SanDisk micro SDHC card:


I built an 8GB partition, type 'b' (win95 fat32), formatted as 'vfat'
done on Ubuntu, then installed in my Freerunner and started up:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 2.038   2.755


Ran fdisk on the Freerunner, changed partition type to '83' (linux),
formatted as ext3, re-mounted as /media/card:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 2.046   2.643


Then re-formatted as ext2 and re-mounted as /media/card:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 2.107   2.779


Conclusions:
- very little difference writing a 100MB file.
- ext3 is slower, on average for reading, while vfat and ext2 are pretty
similar.


Should I try it again with smaller file sizes?

Should I try it again with the various partition/fs types running
bonnie++ to see how it benchmarks things too?

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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-11 Thread ian douglas
Andrew Bennett wrote:
 Journaled file systems perform lots of extra writes to the drive.  Flash
 drives wear out a little quicker (in terms of writes) than other
 drives.  Putting the two together means you're probably decreasing the
 length of your drive's life.


Gotcha, thanks!
-id

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Re: Fast questions (email, GPRS, WiFi...)

2008-07-11 Thread ian douglas
Diego Fernández Durán wrote:
   - Is there any UI to conect using WiFi? and with GPRS?
 - Is network-manager been ported?
   - The NM backend?
   - Anybody is doing an UI for this?


I havne't seen any wifi UI applicaiton yet. I SSH'd into my Freerunner,
edited /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf to alter the essid and
key, typed ifup eth0, then unplugged the USB cable, opened a terminal,
ran ifconfig usb0 down, opened the browser and navigated just fine.

After rebooting, it seems that usb0 is auto-activated, and while the
Wifi device is supposedly 'on', it doesn't appear in an ifconfig dump
... I ran ifconfig down usb0 and ifup eth0 and it failed to connect
to the wifi using my recently-edited wpa_supplicant.conf file.

I'm sure somebody is working on an app to automate this, but they'll
have to rearrange the priority of routing traffic in the app so a user
can specify start up the wifi and use that connect as the default route.

-id


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Los Angeles group order is on its way!

2008-07-11 Thread ian douglas
I received the UPS notice for order 1843 (bulk order) about 10 minutes
ago and updated the where's my freerunner? wiki page. Our ETA is July
15, with 2nd day air shipping confirmed by UPS.

-id

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Re: Highest order number shipped? (Was Number of GTA02s ordered)

2008-07-10 Thread ian douglas
Daniel Dadap wrote:
 Has yours shipped yet? Our 10-pack is order #2267. I wonder how many they 
 ship a day.

Mine is order 1843 and have not yet received a confirmation notice. I
was hoping they'd have been in before the weekend so our bulk order
group could meet up on Saturday, but I guess that's not going to happen.

-id

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Re: Order number wiki page

2008-07-10 Thread ian douglas
I added a column to indicate bulk orders, and added my order number as well.

-id


Peter Naulls wrote:
 I've started a wiki page recording order numbers vs confirmation emails:
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Where_is_my_Freerunner%3F


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SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-10 Thread ian douglas
Hey all,

Got my 8GB SanDisk 8GB micro SDHC card [1] in a few minutes ago, popped
it into my GTA02v5 (beta tester model) Freerunner and running a few
tests on it. So far, so good.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# mount | grep media
/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card type vfat
(rw,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df -h | grep media
/dev/mmcblk0p17.6G 32.0k  7.6G   0% /media/card

If anything weird comes up in my testing, I'll let everyone know.

-id


[1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171320

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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-10 Thread ian douglas
Steven ** wrote:
 That's good news.  Hopefully I'll have as good luck with the 8GB card
 I just bought.  It's A-Data brand.

I decided to go with a well-known name brand to start, that was the only
reason. Newegg.com had cheaper 8GB micro SDHC cards too.

-id

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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-10 Thread ian douglas
Mike Montour wrote:
 you could use something standard like bonnie++.


I'll try Mike's iospeed utility next, but here's a dual-run of the
bonnie++ utility:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# bonnie\+\+ -d /media/card -s 256 -r 128 -x2 -u 0
Using uid:0, gid:0.
name,file_size,putc,putc_cpu,put_block,put_block_cpu,rewrite,rewrite_cpu,getc,getc_cpu,get_block,get_block_cpu,seeks,seeks_cpu,num_files,seq_create,seq_create_cpu,seq_stat,seq_stat_cpu,seq_del,seq_del_cpu,ran_create,ran_create_cpu,ran_stat,ran_stat_cpu,ran_del,ran_del_cpu
Writing with putc()...done
Writing intelligently...done
Rewriting...done
Reading with getc()...done
Reading intelligently...done
start 'em...done...done...done...
Create files in sequential order...done.
Stat files in sequential order...done.
Delete files in sequential order...done.
Create files in random order...done.
Stat files in random order...done.
Delete files in random order...done.
om-gta02,256M,857,92,1872,85,2090,91,1586,93,8986,93,657.0,94,16,257,85,29023,93,299,91,275,91,+,+++,295,90
Writing with putc()...done
Writing intelligently...done
Rewriting...done
Reading with getc()...done
Reading intelligently...done
start 'em...done...done...done...
Create files in sequential order...done.
Stat files in sequential order...done.
Delete files in sequential order...done.
Create files in random order...done.
Stat files in random order...done.
Delete files in random order...done.
om-gta02,256M,856,92,1916,87,2045,89,1583,92,8945,93,655.8,95,16,257,86,29152,92,288,88,272,91,+,+++,294,90


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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-10 Thread ian douglas
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
 What about on the GTA01?  The biggest I have tried so far is 2 gig
 because I wasn't sure if SDHC was working.

I sold my GTA01 months ago earlier this year, so I can only test on my
GTA02v5. I imagine someone with a v6 Freerunner can do some additional
testing.

-id

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Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

2008-07-10 Thread ian douglas
ian douglas wrote:
 I'll try Mike's iospeed utility next, but here's a dual-run of the
 bonnie++ utility:

I should mention too that before running bonnie++ or Mike's utility,
that I deleted the FAT32 partition on the 8GB card, created a single
primary type-83 Linux partition and formatted it ext3. Since I rarely
run Windows at home any more, I didn't see any need to continue to use
vfat-formatted memory cards.


Mike Montour wrote:
 http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed is a simple
 performance-test program that I wrote (source is iospeed.c in the
 same directory)

Mike, your binary is 420kb ... I'm guessing that you compiled your code
with the cross-compiler toolchain?

After installing gcc/g++ and stdlib stuff via opkg on the Freerunner, I
was able to compile the utility directly on the Freerunner and it came
out to only 15kb.

Either way, here's my results with the 8GB SDHC card:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# wget \
http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# chmod +x iospeed

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# wget \
http://members.shaw.ca/mmontour/neo/iospeed.c

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# gcc iospeed.c -o iospeed2

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# ls -l
-rwxr-xr-x1 root root   418384 Jul 10 21:08 iospeed
-rw-r--r--1 root root 2444 Jul 10 21:08 iospeed.c
-rwxr-xr-x1 root root14758 Jul 10 21:19 iospeed2

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# ./iospeed2
usage: ./iospeed2 filename size-in-MiB

I moved the iospeed files to /opt/ so I could compare against the 512MB
card that shipped with the Freerunner, and ran Mike's utility three
times on the 8GB SDHC card:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 0.776   8.890

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 1.566   9.417

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 1.557   9.396

and once on the unit's own Flash ROM as a comparison:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /opt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/opt# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
50  1.577   9.530

Then tested /tmp which I guess is a RAM drive considering the speed boost:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# cd /tmp
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/volatile/tmp# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 50
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
50  28.617  42.786


The 512MB card that came with my Freerunner has some other files on it,
and is formatted as vfat/FAT32. I ran the iospeed utility there three
times as well:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 2.020   2.739

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 2.187   2.743

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 2.207   2.736


So according to Mike's utility, writing the the 8GB card is slightly
faster, but reading is several times slower reading the 512MB card.

I was curious if this was a vfat vs ext3 performance hit, so I deleted
the partition on the 512MB card, built a primary type 83 partition,
formatted it ext3 and re-ran the iospeed tests:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 1.789   2.495

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 1.722   2.505

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/media/card# /opt/iospeed2 testfile 100
Size (MiB)  Write (MiB/s)   Read (MiB/s)
100 1.786   2.478

So interestingly enough, writes were slower on ext3 than vfat on the
512MB card.

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Re: GTA02 final revision?

2008-07-10 Thread ian douglas
Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
 Hardware  : GTA02
 Revision  : 0350
 Serial: 

I see the same on my GTA02 v5 (beta test model) Freerunner.

 But on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware
 there's at leas an ATAG_REVISION: 0360 listed.
 Which one is the revision for mass production? And are there any
 differences between that on and mine?

Steve has said a few times that the mass-production model would be
GTA02v6 but I don't recall whether he said anything about ATAG results
from 'cat cpuinfo'.

I think a good question to ask would be: does the 14-day warranty only
cover DOA, or does it cover possible problems like getting a v5
Freerunner when you should have received a v6 ?

-id

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Re: Sims

2008-07-08 Thread ian douglas
I use a 3G SIM card from ATT and it works just fine.

Scott Derrick wrote:
 I'm expecting my FreeRunner soon and was wondering about the Sim card 
 issue the 1973 version experienced.
 
 Was it fixed? Can I expect just about any ATT sim card to work now? 
 
 I was looking on ebay for sim cards and couldn't find any that were in 
 the good list as published here.
 
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT
 
 Scott
 

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Bill Sun, Los Angeles Group Sales

2008-07-07 Thread ian douglas
Does anyonw know Bill Sun from the LA Group Sales wiki page?
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Los_Angeles

He's our 10th buyer and the only person I have not heard from yet. If I
can't get a response from him in a week, I've got a buyer from San Diego
who is interested in picking up the extra Freerunner in our order.

Can the person in charge of the Community mailing list check if Bill
entered his name when he subscribed, and send me his direct Email
address so I can try again to contact him?

Thanks!

-id

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Re: shipping very expensive

2008-07-07 Thread ian douglas
He said he was checking the web site and started an order for the 850
just to check what the shipping cost would be.

-id


Flyin_bbb8 wrote:
 Federico, did you already order from the openmoko shop? or you're
 waiting for the 900 MHz version?
 
 
 
 
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Re: anyone know when the phones are actually shipping within the US?

2008-07-07 Thread ian douglas
They gave me no estimation on my order (1843) but said I'd get an Email
from UPS when our package is in transit.

-id


Vinc Duran wrote:
 I got a nice mail from openmoko:
 
 Our warehouse in Fremont, CA will be back to work on Monday (7/7) and
 start shipping process.  Your order number should be ready to ship by
 Tuesday.  Thanks.
 
 My order number is 1562. If I read a lot into the email I might conclude
 order counts. I asked about tracking numbers too but no word on that.
 V
 
 On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 11:44 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hey all,
 
 Does anyone know when the phones are shipping in the US? One source I've
 read say they'll ship tomorrow, Monday July 7th, but I'm curious if
 they're shipping in the order they were bought?
 
 Will we get a follow-up Email with a shipping/tracking number?
 
 I'm trying to schedule a meet-and-geek for the Los Angeles group that
 coordinated for a bulk purchase, but without any firm expectation of
 when the phones will be in, it's hard to tell everyone when to show up
 to get their phones.
 
 Thanks,
 Ian Douglas
 
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Re: Shipping dates

2008-07-07 Thread ian douglas
USA shipping is starting today.

A message earlier today stated that orders around #1500 should ship
Tuesday. I'm order 1843, so I expect my shipment to get out either late
Tuesday or some time on Wednesday.

-id


Matthew Lane wrote:
 Does anyone know when the open moko's online store begins shipping?  I 
 don't imagine the US post office has begun working until today (Monday)?
 
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Re: Signature check failed

2008-07-07 Thread ian douglas
The fact that the .gz files didn't download means your /etc/resolv.conf
doesn't point to a valid DNS server.

The signature files are definitely missing though, and should be corrected.

-id


Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
 Hi.
 
 When I update (opkg update) I get the following:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/etc/opkg# opkg update
 Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz
 Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig
 Signature check failed
 Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.gz
 Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.sig
 Signature check failed
 Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973/Packages.gz
 Downloading
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973/Packages.sig
 Signature check failed
 Downloading
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/Packages.gz
 Downloading
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/Packages.sig
 Signature check failed
 Collected errors:
  * Failed to download
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0
  * Failed to download
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig, error 0
  * Failed to download
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.gz, error 0
  * Failed to download
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.sig, error 0
  * Failed to download
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973/Packages.gz, error 0
  * Failed to download
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/neo1973/Packages.sig, error 0
  * Failed to download
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/Packages.gz, error 0
  * Failed to download
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/om-gta02/Packages.sig, error 0
 
 
 
 It seems that this sig files are missing,...
 Am I doing something wrong here?
 
 
 Regards,
 Chris.
 
 
 
 
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Re: Signature check failed

2008-07-07 Thread ian douglas
arne anka wrote:
 the miss of Packages.gz is more worrisome, because opkg computes the list  
 of available packes from it.


Would be handy if opkg could detect if a valid DNS connection exists and
fail gracefully with a warning like Cannot resolve
buildhost.openmoko.org instead of taking the time to download each file
and failing and reporting several errors.

-id

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Re: Signature check failed

2008-07-07 Thread ian douglas
Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
 The miss of those was just because I (as always) forgot to setup
 resolv.conf (as Ian guessed correctly ;) )


It's simple to automate this:

In my /etc/networking/interfaces, for the USB connection, where the up
command does an echo to resolv.conf, something like this:

 up echo nameserver 192.168.0.200  /etc/resolv.conf

I changed it to:

 up echo nameserver 208.67.222.222  /etc/resolv.conf

which is a public DNS server for opendns.com. Works great for me, your
mileage may vary.

-id

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Re: Assassin visiting the morgue...

2008-07-06 Thread ian douglas
Gilles Casse wrote:
 If this vein is pursued, please note that Alzheimer, Ebola, JackTheRipper
 are already reserved at sourceforge.


My favorite comedian quote:
I used to play in a Death Metal band... Most Death Metal bands have
dark names like 'Obituary' ... 'Mortuary' ... 'Rigor Mortis.' We weren’t
that intense. We just went with 'Injured.' - Mitch Hedberg


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Re: GSM Carrier

2008-07-04 Thread ian douglas
arne anka wrote:
 i'm sure, if it was that easy to circumvent the restrictions imposed on a  
 5$ plan, t-mobile would have dropped it already.

I'm guessing that their current lineup of phones are so locked up in 
terms of software ability, it's never been *tried* before on TMobile's 
network? Perhaps I'm wrong.

-id

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Re: freerunner shipment confirmation?

2008-07-04 Thread ian douglas
I know his question was to anyone ordering a single unit, but I got my 
confirmation Email within 5 minutes of placing my order for a 10-pack.

Vinc Duran wrote:
 Hi Jayesh,
 I ordered a ten pack yesterday and received a confirmation email from
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] about 90 minutes later.


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Re: Openmoko Webshop Reopen NOW!!!

2008-07-03 Thread ian douglas
The 850 model is 850/1800/1900 and works fine on TMobile (I've been
using a freerunner for a few months now during testing)


Brad Pitcher wrote:
 Harry wrote:
 Dear All,
 Sorry for delay long time!!!
 So far, only GSM850 Freerunner is available in stock, Debug board and 
 spare also!!!

 http://www.openmoko.com/store.html

 Freerunner is running

 Thanks and BR



 Harry


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 I really want to get one so badly but I'm afraid of getting the wrong 
 GSM frequency.  I live in Oregon, USA and use T-Mobile.  Can anyone 
 advise?  I looked at the website suggested in the store and it says 
 T-Mobile uses GSM 1900.  Does that mean I can't use any FreeRunner?
 Thanks,
 Brad
 
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Re: GSM Carrier

2008-07-03 Thread ian douglas
Brad Pitcher wrote:
 That is exactly right.  I thought I read about some work around for the 
 port restriction, but I didn't dare to try it so I stuck with the add-on.


Well, in theory, if you're writing your own app and have a spare IP
address, you could write the app to answer on port 12345 and configure
that IP address via iptables to listen on port 80 but forward internally
to your app on port 12345. Pretty simple redirection.

-id

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Re: Group Sale: Los Angeles

2008-07-03 Thread ian douglas
We have a 10th buyer for the Los Angeles group, but so far I've only 
heard from half the group.

Obviously I don't want to risk buying 5 extra phones and being stuck 
without buyers.

If the other people who expressed interest can contact me ASAP, we can 
discuss getting payments etc. together to place our order.

Ian


ian douglas wrote:
 A user named Bill Sun listed themselves on the GroupSales wiki page
 for Los Angeles (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Los_Angeles)
 but hasn't configured the wiki to allow me to contact them through the
 wiki. If that person is still on the list here and can contact me,
 that'd be great.
 
 We also have one slot left (or two if we don't hear from Bill Sun) to
 get an exact order of 10 Freerunners. I'll be sending an Email tonight
 to coordinate the group and discuss payment options, etc.
 
 Ian Douglas
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: Anyone attending Foo Camp?

2008-07-03 Thread ian douglas
Is it up north, Michael?

Michael Shiloh wrote:
 I'm setting up an Openmoko hack-a-thon and would love to know if anyone 
 from this list will be there.
 
 Michael
 
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Los Angeles Group Purchase is Complete!

2008-07-03 Thread ian douglas
I'm writing up a notice to 5 of the 10 people from the wiki who were 
good enough to contact me to discuss payment options and a 
meet-and-greet. Through some basic collaboration, I went ahead and made 
the purchase.


The other 5 people have a ticking clock before I sell their Freerunners 
to other interested parties! 7 days to contact me once they arrive (if 
they ship on Saturday, they should arrive on Tuesday).


For those curious, a 10-pack of phones plus one debug board comes out as:

1x DBoard for $99.00 each
1x Neo FreeRunner - GSM 850-10 Pack   for $3,690.00 each

Subtotal  : $3,789.00 USD
Tax   : $274.70 USD
Shipping  : $32.58 USD
Total : $4,096.28 USD

Looks like the tax rate is 7.25%, and the $32.58 is for 2nd day air via 
UPS. The slowest shipping option was $9.80.

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Re: What's a Webshop re-open gifts?

2008-07-03 Thread ian douglas
Steve has mentioned several times that while supplies last, they would 
be sending laser stylii, 512MB microSD cards and a headset with the 
10-pack orders. Once they run out, they run out, and they'll send a 
plastic stylus with each phone.

Openmoko doesn't want to be in the business of selling stylus pointers, 
microSD cards, screen protectors, headsets, carrying pouches, etc. 
They'd rather leave that to after-market entrepreneurs.

-id


Robert Horton wrote:
 Well according to a message earlier here, the nice stylus is being used 
 up before they move to a plastic one so I would think the re-open gift 
 is  stuff that isn’t part of the actual $399 price and is a gift until 
 they are gone. I would assume they’d be included in the 10 packs as well.
 
  
 
 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Charles Pax
 *Sent:* Friday, July 04, 2008 12:20 AM
 *To:* Openmoko Community
 *Subject:* What's a Webshop re-open gifts?
 
  
 
 The web shot states, Webshop re-open gifts: 512MB microSD, Laser stylus 
 pen. What does that mean and will the ten packs be getting this stuff?
 
 -Charles
 
 
 
 
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Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?

2008-07-02 Thread ian douglas
I've used my 3G card from ATT just fine.

-id


Arne Zachlod wrote:
 Hej guys, I had got my today and i have tested it, but my 3G card 
 doesn't function with it. he can't find a network and is unable to get 
 the pin. (i have disabled pin with another phone, then there was only 
 the problem that he doesn't find a network). but with other SIM Cards 
 form same provider there is no problem.
 and other, non-3G-phones hasn't problem with this card, too.
 i have no idea where i can find any informations. the gsm.log file 
 doesn't exist and my gsm-firmware-version is moko8. So, my question is: 
 does anybody else has a problem with 3G Sim card?
 
 Thank you, Arne
 
 
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Group Sale: Los Angeles

2008-07-02 Thread ian douglas
A user named Bill Sun listed themselves on the GroupSales wiki page
for Los Angeles (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Los_Angeles)
but hasn't configured the wiki to allow me to contact them through the
wiki. If that person is still on the list here and can contact me,
that'd be great.

We also have one slot left (or two if we don't hear from Bill Sun) to
get an exact order of 10 Freerunners. I'll be sending an Email tonight
to coordinate the group and discuss payment options, etc.

Ian Douglas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SDHC memory limit (was Re: upgrade memory card)

2008-06-24 Thread ian douglas
I'd heard 8GB, which is why I was going to order an 8GB card. I know a
few 4GB cards were tested.

Nicholas Dube wrote:
 Will the FR be able to support 16GB SDHC microSD cards?
 
 On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:55 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I'd hoped to buy an 8GB SDHC microSD card for my Freerunner but ordered
 a non-micro card and got too lazy to return it to newegg.com
 http://newegg.com/ for an
 exchange since the bigger card works in my laptop when I need to
 transfer files between my PC and a coworker's PC.
 
 Did anyone else test an 8GB card yet? If not, I'll order another one on
 the weekend.


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Re: Delay is getting worse...

2008-06-24 Thread ian douglas
I unsubscribed my iandouglas.com address and resubscribed a few minutes
later, and now both my w98.us and iandouglas.com messages show up within
a few minutes of each other instead of a 90+ minute delay.

I guess the mailing list software processes the addresses in typical
first-in-last-out stack order instead of a FIFO queue or ordered by
domain name or whatever.

Lesson learned: if you've been on the list for a while and don't like
the delay, unsubscribe and resubscribe. /shrug

-id


André Gaul wrote:
 Hey Ian,
 
 This does not prove that it's mail provider dependent. May be your
 w98.us account is processed earlier because it has a 'better' position
 in the list's processing queue. So maybe it depends on the date of
 subscribtion.


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Re: GSM Tower Location and GPS

2008-06-24 Thread ian douglas
That's a great idea. Has it been done before? I know there's a GSM
coverage map on the 'net somewhere (don't have my home bookmarks at
work) which may include actual tower locations already.

-id


Charles Edward Pax wrote:
 Here's an idea: OpenMoko shows me locations of GSM towers near me by
 knowing my location via GPS. This could be useful when in a remote area.
 Let's say I'm in a valley, have no GMS signal, and a member of my party
 or I have an injury. It would be useful to know in which direction I
 should travel to get a signal in the shortest time period.
 
 Here's another idea: Record signal strength and position information for
 generating a coverage map. We can record tower code, signal strength,
 and phone location. This information could be used with the Open Street
 Map data to generate a real-world coverage map. This could also be
 useful during an emergency in a remote area. Instead of just knowing
 where the towers are I could look at the coverage map generated from
 other users.
 
 What do you folks think?
 
 -Charles
 
 
 
 
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Re: Vote! Zimbra Mobile on the Openmoko

2008-06-23 Thread ian douglas
I personally use Plaxo, which syncs up Outlook, Thunderbird, Hotmail,
GMail, Yahoo, my IM contact lists, all into one database, sorts out
duplicates, and also sends a list to my Samsung phone via an installed app.

After some digging, the Plaxo Plus mobile app is just based on Funambol,
which has also been discussed on the mailing list, and wouldn't require
a java stack to operate.

Wish there was a way to vote on this URL of yours without having to
subscribe to the forum though -- I don't want to sign up just to cast a
single vote.

-id


andylockran wrote:
 Definately a +1 for me.
 
 I work in a Zimbra-centric organisation and know how good this
 software is.  A client on my neo would be absolutely fantastic, and
 definately one to win over people still messing with Outlook, Exchange
 and Blackberries.
 
 Regards,
 
 Andy
 
 Joseph Reeves wrote:
 Dear all,
 
 I'd like to bring this poll to your attention:
 
 http://www.zimbra.com/forums/zimbrame-j2me-client/12642-vote-phones-zimbra-j2me-client.html
 
 For those that don't know, Zimbra is an awesome email/collaboration
 suite, they're asking for people to vote on the next mobile platform
 that their client will be released on. Zimbra on a FreeRunner would be
 a Blackberry killer. I've put up a short blog post here:
 
 http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/20080623
 
 Thanks,
 
 Joseph
 
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Re: Delay is getting worse...

2008-06-21 Thread ian douglas
The delay also depends on your mail provider. I'm currently subscribed
as [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] and the mail to my w98.us
domain arrives about an hour earlier than my iandouglas.com domain. This
message will also show up in my w98.us account within minutes of me
hitting send, but my iandouglas.com domain will take about an hour or so
to show up (and may also show up as a duplicate, but that's some other
issue).

I had subscribed my second Email account to see if duplicates happened
on this account as well, and it appears to only affect my iandouglas.com
subscription, so I'm going to test unsubscribing and resubscribing that
account and see if duplicates still happen. It might have something to
do with my Thunderbird filters, perhaps.

-id

ps: nice chart, Peter!


Peter J. Holzer wrote:
 http://www.hjp.at/diverses/openmoko-delays.rxml


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Re: bluetooth proximity

2008-06-18 Thread ian douglas
Tilman Baumann wrote:
 Deamons that trigger events when a bloetooth device comes in range have 
 already been implemented.

In Ubuntu and Fedora, check out blueproximity -- you sync your
bluetooth device with your PC, and set a proximity level in feet (1..30)
and when the device goes out of range for a preset number of seconds, it
launches a locked screen saver. When the device comes back into range
for another preset amount of seconds, the screensaver is deactivated.

It's pretty handy in secure environments -- I just implemented it
yesterday with both my Blackberry and Samsung Blackjack2, and it works
fine -- I haven't tried it with the Freerunner yet.

I imagine someone could port the code to the OpenMoko platform easily
enough... then you'd just need to pair the two Freerunners with each
other. I don't know whether sword fighting would be feasible due to
signal processing and calculating distance in a fast-paced environment.

-id

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Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

2008-06-16 Thread ian douglas
Andy Selby wrote:
 There was a post on engadget mobile that suggested some have been
 released.
 
 I cant find it, you got a link?


Steve mentioned this in an Email the other day:
  I know some shipments (university customers) have already landed.

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Anyone working on a cron port?

2008-06-15 Thread ian douglas
Suppose I could check the project page, but it's 2:30am and I'm tired 
and lazy. I was updating and installing some software on my Freerunner 
tonight to test mp3 playback and noticed again that there's still no 
mention of a cron engine in the opkg library.

Anybody know if it's being worked on? I think that'd be an especially 
handy tool to have. I'd go so far as to call it 'essential', at least in 
my circumstance.

-id


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Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

2008-06-14 Thread ian douglas
Just out of curiosity, Steve, how long does it take to assemble a phone 
from start to finish? (just assembly, not testing)

steve wrote:
 SMT is running. This means printed circuit boards are being produced daily.
 Then, the circuit boards are being assembled into phones. This means the
 plastic casing is being mounted
 As well as other bits and pieces.


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Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-12 Thread ian douglas
Kevin Dean wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 tariffs (shop for plans?) link and was unable to complete the
 checkout process without selecting a handset.
 
 I'm surprised that ATT doesn't list that on their site.

They want to force you to walk into their store where you see all of the 
phones on display and try to sell you accessories, etc.

Just take the Freerunner into the store with you and say Hey, have an 
unlocked GSM phone here already, just need a SIM...

 I went to T-Mobile this weekend to purchase a SIM
 card for my Freerunner and the only question asked was Is it
 unlocked (ensuring it's compatible). There was a SNAFU there
 because this was a newly opened store who didn't have the activation
 kits, but it was a service they clearly offered and even have
 pamphlets in their holders.

Kevin, make sure you activate your minutes -- the TMobile store I went 
to said they would activate my minutes and it took me and Michael Shiloh 
scratching our collective heads at SCALE 6x to determine that my TMobile 
SIM wasn't working because it was never activated by the store...

-id


 
 You're not arguing you shouldn't have to pay for a phone, you're
 arguing that you should be allowed to dictate the level of profit
 someone else's company is able to make on transactions.
 Hmmmn... IMO you're taking Mr Pfeiffer's should a bit literally here.

 Certainly from my point of view, I am astounded at the opportunity
 the US carriers appear to be missing out on. They could easily
 advertise got a handset from your old contract? Save 25% on you
 monthly bills - try our new SIM-only tariffs! Think of how the
 customers would come flocking to them.
 
 There are other logistical issues to that, and while it's slowly
 changing, it's not possible to ignore them. In most of Europe, GSM is
 standard. In the US, two of the four largest cellular providers use
 CDMA so for most people making that claim would come with so many
 caveats that it would be hard to handle even in the best case. In
 Verizon's case, for instance, they will be transitioning to GSM from
 CDMA soon. It would be a bit counter productive for them to
 encourage people to bring their existing phones over to a network when
 they're phasing down that very technology.
 
 
 There's also the fact that most people are in a contract. There would
 have to be SIGNIFIGANT savings to justify most of that for customers.
 Typical early termination fees are between $150 and $300 per handset.
 A 25% monthly savings on my plan would save me very little money in
 the long run ($150 cancellation fee per handset and my plan is a
 family plan where my wife and I share minutes. To cancel that service,
 I'd need to terminate 2 phones, costing me $300 for a two year savings
 of $360).
 
 There's also the consumerist mentality here. I'm not sure if it exists
 in the UK, or if so, how strongly, but it is common (especially among
 the younger demographic) to change phones frequently to have the
 latest and greatest. It's the same reason the iPhone 2 is going to
 sell despite the fact that the iPhone is still functional and even
 still leading the pack in terms of appeal.
 
 The scenario you describe means that whenever one finishes one's
 contract the old mobile phone is garbage. It's chucked away and
 becomes landfill. I can't see how this benefits anyone except the
 foreign manufacturers of phones. The carriers have to stock,
 inventory  finance handset stock, and the consumer ends up paying
 more. It just seems insane to me, and that's what surprised me.
 
 As I said above, in many many many cases it is the phone, NOT the
 cellular service, that gets people interested in service. ATT wasn't
 particularly appealing but the iPhone WAS. There are some pragmatic
 people who buy a phone and use it until it dies. A large chunk upgrade
 their phones before their contracts expire for some new or improved
 feature, or because it comes in a new color. Even when two carriers
 have the same phone models, there are often exclusives - Verizon had
 a pink RAZR for a year before anyone else did for instance.
 
 (OTOH: I now understand that the iPhone truly does only cost $199, if
 one prefers monthly billing to PAYG SIM cards).
 
 Perhaps that's another difference that matters. Trying to buy my SIM
 this past weekend, even though they sold them, there was some
 confusion - they're sold so infrequently here that it was a noteworthy
 event. Having to not manage minutes is a very convenient thing for me
 and if not for wanting to test the Freerunner and the 1973 at the same
 time, I'd have zero real incentive to go prepaid. That sentiment is
 most common here, though there are good reasons to do an as you go
 plan.
 
 Stroller.

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SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
 when I went to get a sim card to use in my moko, I was
 unable to find one without getting a subsidized phone to go with it.

TMobile did this for me in about 15 minutes at one of their stores, and 
I didn't even have my Neo with me at the time. I simply told them I had 
an unlocked international GSM-capable phone and I just needed a SIM card 
for it.

I'm sure ATT would do the same if you simply walk into the store and 
tell them you want to purchase a SIM card for an unlocked phone you 
already own, and that you just want the SIM card.

-id

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Our Identity (was: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Robert Taylor wrote:
 if we can't make the device stand out ... it is a loosing strategy.

Yup, you've hit the nail on the head ... anyone comparing apples to 
apples in a side-by-side feature list is more likely to choose the 
iPhone. It looks slick, it's a nice form factor, and has features the 
Freerunner will not have like the camera and 3G. The Freerunner will 
have features like USB host mode and open-source software.

I think what's more likely to happen is that the Freerunner will 
primarily be picked up by the technology-advanced users around the 
world, who will then show off the phone to everyone around them, and 
word will spread gradually. I'm confident that the OpenMoko team know 
exactly what they're doing in terms of marketing, etc..

 I wonder if we have anything that unique to offer.  Can the open world 
 come up with an identity?

Our identity as a community is exactly that: openness. Use the phone how 
you want, update it when you want, change it when you want, upload apps 
when you want, write your own apps, nothing's hidden, you have complete 
access. You won't have anywhere close to that level of access on the 
iPhone without jailbreaking it and all of the risks included in that, 
and having to re-break the phone every time Apple upgrades the firmware, 
etc., plus being forced to *buy* applications from iTunes. Bleh.

As I've said above, that identity is more likely to appeal to the geeks 
of the world than Joe Six Pack. And I don't think OpenMoko is trying 
to sell millions of Freerunners like Apple/ATT are hoping to... we'll 
have a carefully-carved niche market of users, and it'll start with the 
curious users and expand from there over time. By the time the GTA03 or 
GTA04 come out with cameras and (hopefully) a slimmer form factor, etc., 
I think it'll be more of a phone/device that will appeal to a much wider 
audience.

My $0.02...

-id

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Sander Hoentjen wrote:
 compare the price difference for a 24month contract with or without an
 iPhone (16GB) (Yes this is not the new one, but i suspect it will not
 differ too much).
 
 Price for 24 mo with iPhone: 719,- eur
 with HTC Touch Diamond (just for comparison): 541,-
 without phone: 163,10 eur


According to Engadget [1], ATT will have a voice/data plan for the 
iPhone starting as low as $69.95/month, and a minimum of $84.95 for 
business customers.

The $69.95 price seem to be the same (at least in my Los Angeles-based 
zip coe) for a non-iPhone user selecting the minimum voice plan at 
$39.95 and the $30/month unlimited 'personal data' plan for PDA's and 
Smartphones. Data plan is $50 for unlimited data/SMS, and data plan is 
$60 for 5GB of data with tehering (using your smartphone as a modem).

Over the course of two years, you'd be paying the same $1679.04 plus 
taxes, fees, surcharges, etc. plus the cost of the phone at the $69.95 
price.

[1] 
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/06/09/iphone-3g-from-atandt-unlimited-data-for-30/

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Shawn wrote:
 say I buy a freerunner, but decide to switch to ATT as my provider (as 
 I plan to do in the near future), will they not hit me with a contract 
 agreement anyway?

It varies, depending on who you talk to.

They typically need to lock you into a 2-year contract if they're 
subsidizing a phone.

Since the Freerunner isn't subsidized by them, they should give you the 
same rate, but not lock you into a two-year agreement.

-id

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Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
 ian douglas writes:
 TMobile did this for me in about 15 minutes at one of their stores, and 
 I didn't even have my Neo with me at the time. I simply told them I had 
 an unlocked international GSM-capable phone and I just needed a SIM card 
 for it.
 
 Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a
 phone?  Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without
 giving me the phone...

It was a pay-as-you-go SIM card, no contract required. Minutes are good 
for a year 9though I used up almost the entire block of 1,000 minutes 
doing talk time tests last month on the Freerunner.

-id

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Re: Wireless providers in the US

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Could those of you in the US, who have the prior phone,and who plan to get
 the new one, share what providers you are using?

I had a Neo (GTA01) and it worked fine on TMobile and ATT, but only in 
areas where the higher frequency bands were available -- I couldn't get 
either SIM to work where only the 850MHz band was getting through, 
obviously, because the Neo didn't do 850MHz.

ATT and TMobile also work just fine on the Freerunner -- I have the 
850Mhz-capable model.

-id


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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Ben Burdette wrote:
 Also, I hear that ATT is charging 10$ more per month for iphones over 
 their normal plan fees, and even more if you are a business user.

They raised the rate in general, even without picking a phone at 
attwireless.com, you can still see the basic unlimited data with 
limited SMS option is $30/month.

And yeah, they're charging business users $45/month for the same 
unlimited data plan, because it will include sync'ing to MS Exchange 
(like the Blackberry PDA's do), and the 50% premium is simply due to the 
fact that the 'push' technology will use more bandwidth.

-id


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Re: Wireless providers in the US

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Kevin Dean wrote:
 T-Mobile and ATT both offer
 nationwide plans and the plans are the same coast to coast.

... but not at ATT plans are available coast-to-coast.

I was looking at plans last night for someone on the list who lives in 
New Mexico, and there were fewer voice/data plans available than there 
were in the Los Angeles area.

 as a web browser when I am on the road, for calendar and such,
 for texting.  I am interested in GPS features as well.
 
 A Freerunner would work well for all of those, and with the GPS being
 tacked on, I'm not sure I can think of many devices that would combine
 all of those features.

My Samsung Blackjack 2 has been doing all this since December 2007. Of 
course, I sync everything through plaxo.com as the Blackjack 2 doesn't 
have MS-Exchange sync'ing capabilities built in. (It'll sync Email 
through ATT's XpressMail service though)

I'll much prefer the Freerunner over my Samsung once the software is 
solid, as having a true-multitasking environment will be a giant leap 
forward for how I stay connected.

-id

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Re: Wireless providers in the US

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
ian douglas wrote:
 ... but not at ATT plans are available coast-to-coast.

at = all

Lack of sleep = typos. My bad.

-id

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Re: GTA03 camera + any chance to add SD card?

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
 Is adding an SD card externally accessible on GTA03 feasible?

+1

Having the SD card buried under the SIM under the battery is less than 
ideal.

-if


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Re: SIM cards for Freerunner

2008-06-11 Thread ian douglas
Robert Taylor wrote:
 Which part of a portion of the contract pays for you phone ... phone 
 ISN'T FREE, YOU ARE FINANCING THE PURCHASE OF THE PHONE VIA THE 
 CONTRACT is hard to understand?
 
 Why do americans have such a hard time grasping this?

Your statement makes perfect sense, Robert.

But the carriers in America, in my experience (and I currently use a 
phone on each of Verizon, ATT and TMobile), simply don't discount their 
monthly plan rates for using an unlocked phone on their network. 
Whatever portion of your monthly plan isn't otherwise going towards a 
subsidy is pure profit for them.

They're not about to give us a 10% or 20% break on our monthly bill, or 
whatever percentage pays for the subsidy of a locked phone (like the 
iPhone), otherwise the 'subsidy' no longer appears as a subsidy to the 
end user who *does* buy a locked phone, the user sees it exactly as you 
stated it -- they're financing their phone. And ATT is going to want 
that to appear as 'transparent' as possible to the consumer.

That's my thought on it, anyway.

-id

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Robert Taylor wrote:
 You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year 
 contract minimum.

Granted, the Apple and ATT partnership greatly subsidizes the cost, 
because of the $960 ($40/mo unlimited data plan for 2 yrs) to $2400 
($100/mo unlimited voice/data for 2 yrs) that you'd spend with ATT also 
helps cover the hidden cost of the hardware.

And while I personally don't care much for the iPhone, you also have to 
sign up for a voice/data plan to use the Freerunner... You're still 
paying the $960-$2400 over two years, but there's not offset of cost of 
the hardware to the consumer. The monthly fees you pay that doesn't pay 
for the actual use of the cell network is 100% profit to ATT instead of 
going to Apple to help pay for the hardware.

Same with TMobile, and I imagine any other carrier who offsets the price 
of their phones to lock you into a contract.

Just my $0.02.

What you're paying the extra money for, for the Freerunner, is the 
freedom of doing whatever you want with your phone. Sure, the iPhone has 
their SDK released, but all applications still have to go through Apple 
to operate on your phone -- I don't know if the SDK even allows you to 
build an application just for your own iPhone to test it. Also, their 
mobile OS is closed source -- you have no access to hack or tweak it to 
do *exactly* what you want it to. You can't change the applications that 
come with the phone, you can't do a lot of things. Sure, they have lots 
of eye candy and some solid-looking applications, but once we as a 
community port applications to the Freerunner hardware to run on 
OpenMoko, we'll be leaps and bounds ahead of the iPhone software.

That, to me, is worth the extra purchase price.

-id

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Re: regarding the 'data security' thread recently

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Ilja O. wrote:
 Why not just have the phone wipe itself when the SIM card changes?
 
 That's what i was proposing from the beginning.



But for users like me with multiple valid SIM cards, I think being able 
to run a script/app on the phone that says this SIM is valid, don't do 
a wipe would be necessary -- keep a 'catalog' of allowed SIM's.

If an unknown SIM is inserted, send an Email to some central location 
with the phone number of the SIM that IS inserted, so you now have the 
phone number for which to send the 'wipe' SMS message.

Just my $0.02.

-id

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Federico Lorenzi wrote:
 The 3G iPhone does not cost $199. It costs $199 when subsidized
 through a 2 year ATT contract. Thats like saying my Nokia E51 costs
 nothing, because I got it free with a 2 year contract.


... and per my last Email, the lack of subsidies for the Freerunner, 
where you still need a voice/data contract, actually costs more.

But the extra cost is worth the freedom of doing whatever I want with my 
Freerunner.

-id

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Lowell Higley wrote:
 I think what Ian is trying to say is that contract or not, you still 
 have to pay for your phone service and data service.

Exactly.

Whether you get the iPhone, a Freerunner, a Nokia, a Samsung, 
whatever... you still need to pay for the cellular service.

Yes, it's cheaper if you buy pay-as-you-go service, and yes, if you buy 
the 'locked' iPhone (retail box from ATT) you *must* buy into a contract.

My point was basically that if you want to use a lot of voice/data on 
the Freerunner, you're probably going to spend the same dollar amount on 
the voice/data plan as you would with the iPhone, so in that case, yes, 
the iPhone is cheaper.

If you can manage everything you do only on pay-as-you-go service, then 
it's possible that the Freerunner will be cheaper after two years.

-id

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Jorge . wrote:
 No doubt, but you can buy unlocked iPhones on many places, including internet 
 and they dont cost $960

You're right, an unlocked iPhone will likely cost more than $199 (for 
the 8GB model), but you still need to have the data/voice plan. If *all* 
you're comparing is the cost of the phone hardware, then you'd have to 
find out how much an iPhone actually costs ATT to purchase from Apple.

We're all arguing the same thing, just from different perspectives.

At the end of the day, you still need to buy voice/data service, whether 
you buy a Freerunner or iPhone. Since, from the sounds of it, you cannot 
(yet) buy the iPhone on a pay-as-you-go service, it's likely that the 
Freerunner will be a cheaper alternative, but ONLY when using a 
pay-as-you-go service. (at least here in the US)

But if you're going to buy into a voice/data plan, you're going to 
ultimately spend more cash on the Freerunner:

For example, I pay $39.99/month for 450 daytime minutes and 5000 
evening/weekend minutes every month. I pay an additional $39.99 per 
month for an unlimited data plan. My total monthly cost is $79.98 plus 
taxes and fees, so let's round it up to $90 per month. Over the course 
of two years, my $90/month totals $2,160.

If I buy an iPhone, my total cost after two years is $199 plus $2160, or 
$2359.
If I buy a Freerunner, my total cost after two years is $399 plus $2160, 
or $2558. If I manage to get in on a group sale, my total cost after two 
years drops $30.

So if you plan to get on a monthly voice/data plan with ATT here in the 
USA, yes, the iPhone will be cheaper after a two year period is over.

Of course, if you start buying iPhone apps from iTunes over the two year 
period, then the iPhone could quickly become much more expensive than 
the Freerunner.

My point in the last few Emails is that the extra $200 (or $170 on a 
group sale), is worth it to me to have a completely unlocked phone where 
I can write and manage my own applications, have industry-accepted 
open-source programs ported to run on the Freerunner, have those 
applications for free, etc.

-id


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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Greg Bonett wrote:
 Don't forget you've always got the option to use the Freerunner without a
 voice/data plan at all if you don't mind only using VOIP in Wifi networks.
  Then its a bargain!


Excellent point, Greg!

(I don't recall if the new iPhone has WiFi to do VoIP calls)

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Re: comparing Apples and Oranges $199 iPhone Freerunner GTA02

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Robin Paulson wrote:
 plus, can the iphone use usb in host mode? can i plug in a usb flash
 drive, or an external modem?


 From what I'm seeing on the specs page, the iPhone doesn't have any 
sort of USB plug on it ... so unless they have custom plugs to 
interchange between their 30-pin connector an a USB device, it looks 
like the Freerunner has a very big advantage for connecting external 
devices.

-id

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Re: No 3G for GTA03, 2G/EDGE only?

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
As an aside, when comparing 2G and 3G:

Even according to Apple, the new iPhone 3G model will get up to 10 hours 
of talk time on 2G but half as long (5 hours) in 3G mode.

I'd love to learn more about how voice quality differs between 2G and 3G 
-- if a future GTA device gets 3G capability, I'd probably want to limit 
my calling to 2G but switch to 3G for data, if that'd even be possible.

-id


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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread ian douglas
Robert Taylor wrote:
 Please, compare equal things.
 Why are you posting nonsense here?

Rob, I'm not the one who posted the original article, and I take offense 
to you saying that my thoughts are 'nonsense' -- that sort of attitude 
isn't helpful to anybody.

In a previous post, you said:
  The iPhone is godawful expensive no matter how you slice it.

In another, you said:
  The iPhone is AT LEAST twice as expensive as the Moko.

We're not talking about what's subsidized and what's not. We're 
comparing how much money have I paid out of my pocket after two years 
to compare a 2-year contract requirement versus owning a Freerunner.

While I'm not trying to encourage any bitter feelings whatsoever, I'm 
curious how you calculated the iPhone costs twice as much as the 
Freerunner when you look at the bottom line of how many dollars you've 
spent after two years. Please elaborate on your calculations.

-id


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