Re: What are pros and cons of the different devel environments: qtopia, android, openmoko
For me the close tie in with the hardware is what interests me in the project. It is not just software. You have access to the accelerometers data, gps data, wifi, and all the open hardware. I feel that will lead to the best possible solution for the phone. It is the software working together with the hardware that truly makes the neo 1973 and openmoko such a powerful tool. I have worked with the Openmoko's API and I have looked at the android api and they both seem to offer advantages. The Android API seems to be easier to use but less powerful. If you really need control then openmoko seems to be the answer. I don't have enough experiance with the others to really say what draws me to openmoko but if I had to say something it is the sense of being able to do anything with the support you need to make it actually happen. On Jan 16, 2008 6:00 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lorn reminds me that there is another option in the open source Linux frameworks for mobile devices space. (I think SVHMPC wanted to include Trolltech as well. Not sure what happened.) (And of course there are other options besides these three.) So the questions remain: What features make you choose one over the other? And in particular, regarding Lorn's point below, how do you feel about the different APIs? By the way, this is not meant to start an us vs. them battle. I'm not out to prove that one is better than the other. Android, Qtopia, and OpenMoko are all different, and each is aimed at a different type of developer. I'm interested in understanding what those differences are, and how they influence a developer's choice. Michael Original Message Subject: Re: New to OpenMoko Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:45:27 +1000 From: Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] andy selby wrote: * ..Err help me out here Lorn u, better programming API? ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko will be at SVHMPC meeting TONIGHT in Menlo Park
Yes that is a perfect question to ask. Also will there be any video avaliable? I would be very interested to see this event. On Jan 16, 2008 8:48 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see OpenMoko as lower level than Android. Users can give feedback into the very core of the hardware software. I expect to someday see Android applications integrated into OpenMoko. Android appears to be just a virtual machine sandbox that sits on top of a Linux core. I don't see most Android based phones makers willingly giving access outside of the Android API and runtime or taking user feedback seriously. My question is why doesn't Google release the Android runtime API in a form that can be easily integrated and run on OpenMoko or any other Linux? It's just built on top of a linux kernel a bunch of standard libs. Someone please ask that for me. Michael Shiloh wrote: Good question, Jeffrey, and you suggest a question that I'd like to ask you, the community: Why do you chose to develop on OpenMoko, rather than on Android? Or do you do both? (Beside the lack of Android hardware) Michael Jeffrey Thomas wrote: I am unable to attend this meeting due to geography, but if anyone is in attendance I would be interested to hear the Google people's response to why they felt the need to start a competitive project rather than join the OpenMoko team. Michael, as an official in the OpenMoko community, I wouldn't expect you to ask this, but if someone else is in attendance, raise the question and report back to us! Jeffrey Minnesota USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
Is there a way to do both? Can you have the 900/1800/1900MHz phones along with the 850/1800/1900MHz variant? I don't know if that would raise cost or anything. That way at order time you could select which one you would like. Who uses the 900 band does anyone know? I would think the 850/1800/1900MHz variant would work for anyone in USA as it covers T-Mobile, and both bands of ATT right? On Nov 5, 2007 5:48 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Community, I've just arrived in Taiwan and have figured out the quad band issue. The chipset is capable of quad band but the board was laid out to only support 3 bands. So, 850Mhz is not supported on the GTA01 board. Instead we support 900/1800/1900MHz. Anyone interested in more details is welcome to email me. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: DVB-T
You could always get a MythTV box or the like and record the shows you really want to watch. Then when you have wifi up and running stream it to the phone. And you could even have it convert all the MPEG's to the resolution and color depth of the neo's screen. If you don't have the wifi connection up you can always get a data connection although you won't be able to stream it you'll probably have to download it or buffer like 80% of it, but it should work. I am probably over simplifying right now, but with some trial and error you could work it out. On 10/24/07, Michael Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, did not know if it has been mentioned or if i posted this link http://www.gigabytecm.com/eng/gbc_product.feature.aspx?pid=40 Is it possible to add DVB-T Televison to Openmoko Phone? Thanks, really I regard this a sessential to have DVB-T and not DVB-H or DMB !!I It is free and unlogable. A DVB-T2 Standard will be out soon as well.. Thanks for a consideration Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors
Amen! I couldn't have stated it better my self. I don't like it when people say oh no the I phone is going to squich the Neo1973. Me no phone can touch the neo1973. For me it is a revolution, that will change the way phone industry. For far to long the phone industry has been this big monster that has taken away freedom from the get go. And we just keep taking it lying down. If people are sick and tired of letting the phoen companies drive, or I should say stifle, innovation then they will pick the neo1973. The Neo1973 is not going to compete with the iphone it is competing with the way the phone industry treats it's customers. I think that is worth any price. Now having extra features, nice UI, and a good looking device it really nice and I think could add a great deal of momentum to the project. But this whole the Neo1973 project is doomed I just don't like. And all those people saying that they will buy an iphone now because the price is so low, good for you, I hope you buy a neo also because you will understand that it can make the future better. On 9/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO... I've been following the Neo1973 for months now, lurking, and tend to disagree with just about all comparisons I've read w/ the iPhone. When someone references the iPhone I think iPhone, I could care less. I think it's great that the Neo1973 is now getting some exposure, but I think it's a mistake to compare it to any other phone, iPhone or otherwise. At least from how I've been following it, it's not being designed to be the phone for the average cell phone user. It's a phone for the geek, the hacker, the coder. It's a phone to challenge all other phones. The neo to me is more of a revolution than an iPhone killer or even competitor. If the neo reaches even mediocre success I see big changes in the world of cell phones... The iPhone killer, competitor, or comparisons you have been describing - to me - should not be done against the neo. The iPhone killer will be a later model OpenMoko phone brought out after much custom development and innovative ideas are done against the Neo1973. The basic production Neo1973 is what will begin the end of the iPhone - and all other phones - but it is not going to be released as the one (pun!) ready to do it. It will take some time and community innovation for the neo to be a killer phone. It may even be a second or third model OpenMoko phone before it is the phone to end all phones. It's starting out strong w/ wifi, gps, accelerometers, and other features but how much more dream hardware could be crammed into it? Just imagine... I can't wait for a neo so I can begin writing my own apps against all the open hardware. I don't care if it not sexy in certain ways. It's the beginning of a dream phone - a phone that you can hack up in any way you want. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using Qemu
I was being dumb it's being blocked by the firewall. Sorry about that all. On 8/14/07, Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok running through the process again I noticed something I was missing before. I am getting the following error svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/patcher' svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/patches': Not Implemented ( http://svn.nslu2-linux.org) could that be the problem? On 8/14/07, John Seghers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How are you launching QEMU? I always use the MokoMakefile's make run-qemu (actually slightly modified to enable USB Networking.) The actual command line is: /home/moko/build/qemu $ arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm –M neo –m 130 –usb –usbgadget –show-cursor –mtdblock openmoko/openmoko- flash.image –kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin (note that all of those dashes are single dashes, even though mail formatted them as longer than the hyphens….) When you move the mouse over the emulator, does the emulator draw a cursor? - John PS: if this solves your issue, do post it to the list. -- *From:* Mathew Davis [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:12 AM *To:* John Seghers *Subject:* Re: Using Qemu I have tried every imaginable rate of click sloth-slow mamoth-slow slow semi-slow medium medium-fast fast super-fast faster than superman can click still not registering a click. Is there a way I can position the mouse and send a click event to the emulator? like a shift alt or something like that? On 8/14/07, *John Seghers* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jimmy McMillan wrote: Matthew. I was having the same problems for a while, but I found that after I restarted the ubuntu VM, and started the qemu string (after it was build) it worked fine for me. You make also wanna do another svn fetch and start from scratch. Another thing I've found with QEMU in general is: take your time. Click and hold it for a second or two. If you do quick clicks that you're used to doing on the desktop, it will often not register at all in the emulator. - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using Qemu
Dang reply button well I accidentally sent this just to Jmmy I was trying to avoid re-flashing and re-building because it takes so long to re-start. So I tried the clicking about a million times, but no luck so I am trying make download-images and am currently waiting for the qemu environment to startup again. If that doesn't work I will try restarting the ubuntu environment. Thanks for the help guys. UpDate: I have rebooted the VM still no luck, So I thought maybe it was the VM on linux so I moved it over to an XP box still no go. I tried the make download-images and got this [ -e images/openmoko ] || mkdir -p images/openmoko ln -sf `pwd`/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/env images/openmoko/env ( cd images ; ../openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/download.sh ) Retrieving available builds list... Kernel is... uImage-2.6-moko10-r2_0_2134_0-fic-gta01.bin Root filesystem is... openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 U-boot is... u-boot-gta01bv4-r12_0_2632_0.bin Now use openmoko/flash.sh to install OpenMoko to NAND Flash. rm -f images/openmoko/env [ -d stamps ] || mkdir stamps touch stamps/images Now I don't know how to use openmoko/flash.sh so i just ran Make setup then when that was finished I ran Make run-qemu still no good what can I do. On 8/14/07, Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was trying to avoid re-flashing and re-building because it takes so long to re-start. So I tried the clicking about a million times, but no luck so I am trying make download-images and am currently waiting for the qemu environment to startup again. If that doesn't work I will try restarting the ubuntu environment. Thanks for the help guys. Matt On 8/14/07, Jimmy McMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mathew Davis wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask this or not, I didn't think it was a development question more of a general use question. I got the Openmoko_Dev VM and I ran through the makefile setup and got qemu up and running by typing make run-qemu, it took forever but it finally booted up into the gui. I am at the point where it is asking me to calibrate the screen by clicking the crosshair, but I can't click it. Is there something I missed. I am completly new to Qemu and fairly new to linux although I have some experiance with it. So is the a conf file I need to edit to get the mouse calibrated I have the mouse inside the emulated window but it just won't let me click. Any help here would be great. If it's on the wiki I must have missed it so you can send me the link if you like. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Matthew. I was having the same problems for a while, but I found that after I restarted the ubuntu VM, and started the qemu string (after it was build) it worked fine for me. You make also wanna do another svn fetch and start from scratch. *Have you tried turning it off and on* Jimmy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using Qemu
Ok I am obviously doing something wrong. I tried re-building the environment already. Here are the steps I took so let me know if I missed something. First I ran make download-images, I then ran make flash-qemu-official then I ran make setup and then ran make run-qemu. It boots up and get's to the calibration screen. My black pointer cursor is bounded by the qemu screen and I click and click and nothing. I have restarted qemu and the vm multiple times. Am I missing a step some where? On 8/14/07, Jimmy McMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew, Like I said, I had the same problem you are for about a week and finally rebuilt everything as mentioned on the wiki. Here is my screeny as well as my `history`. http://www.freshstation.org/~mintee/openmoko.jpg Hope that helps Mathew Davis wrote: Dang reply button well I accidentally sent this just to Jmmy I was trying to avoid re-flashing and re-building because it takes so long to re-start. So I tried the clicking about a million times, but no luck so I am trying make download-images and am currently waiting for the qemu environment to startup again. If that doesn't work I will try restarting the ubuntu environment. Thanks for the help guys. UpDate: I have rebooted the VM still no luck, So I thought maybe it was the VM on linux so I moved it over to an XP box still no go. I tried the make download-images and got this [ -e images/openmoko ] || mkdir -p images/openmoko ln -sf `pwd`/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/env images/openmoko/env ( cd images ; ../openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/download.sh ) Retrieving available builds list... Kernel is... uImage-2.6-moko10-r2_0_2134_0-fic-gta01.bin Root filesystem is... openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070803091138.rootfs.jffs2 U-boot is... u-boot-gta01bv4-r12_0_2632_0.bin Now use openmoko/flash.sh to install OpenMoko to NAND Flash. rm -f images/openmoko/env [ -d stamps ] || mkdir stamps touch stamps/images Now I don't know how to use openmoko/flash.sh so i just ran Make setup then when that was finished I ran Make run-qemu still no good what can I do. On 8/14/07, *Mathew Davis* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was trying to avoid re-flashing and re-building because it takes so long to re-start. So I tried the clicking about a million times, but no luck so I am trying make download-images and am currently waiting for the qemu environment to startup again. If that doesn't work I will try restarting the ubuntu environment. Thanks for the help guys. Matt On 8/14/07, *Jimmy McMillan* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mathew Davis wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask this or not, I didn't think it was a development question more of a general use question. I got the Openmoko_Dev VM and I ran through the makefile setup and got qemu up and running by typing make run-qemu, it took forever but it finally booted up into the gui. I am at the point where it is asking me to calibrate the screen by clicking the crosshair, but I can't click it. Is there something I missed. I am completly new to Qemu and fairly new to linux although I have some experiance with it. So is the a conf file I need to edit to get the mouse calibrated I have the mouse inside the emulated window but it just won't let me click. Any help here would be great. If it's on the wiki I must have missed it so you can send me the link if you like. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Matthew. I was having the same problems for a while, but I found that after I restarted the ubuntu VM, and started the qemu string (after it was build) it worked fine for me. You make also wanna do another svn fetch and start from scratch. *Have you tried turning it off and on* Jimmy
Re: Using Qemu
Ok running through the process again I noticed something I was missing before. I am getting the following error svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/patcher' svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/patches': Not Implemented ( http://svn.nslu2-linux.org) could that be the problem? On 8/14/07, John Seghers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How are you launching QEMU? I always use the MokoMakefile's make run-qemu (actually slightly modified to enable USB Networking.) The actual command line is: /home/moko/build/qemu $ arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm –M neo –m 130 –usb –usbgadget –show-cursor –mtdblock openmoko/openmoko-flash.image –kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin (note that all of those dashes are single dashes, even though mail formatted them as longer than the hyphens….) When you move the mouse over the emulator, does the emulator draw a cursor? - John PS: if this solves your issue, do post it to the list. -- *From:* Mathew Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:12 AM *To:* John Seghers *Subject:* Re: Using Qemu I have tried every imaginable rate of click sloth-slow mamoth-slow slow semi-slow medium medium-fast fast super-fast faster than superman can click still not registering a click. Is there a way I can position the mouse and send a click event to the emulator? like a shift alt or something like that? On 8/14/07, *John Seghers* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jimmy McMillan wrote: Matthew. I was having the same problems for a while, but I found that after I restarted the ubuntu VM, and started the qemu string (after it was build) it worked fine for me. You make also wanna do another svn fetch and start from scratch. Another thing I've found with QEMU in general is: take your time. Click and hold it for a second or two. If you do quick clicks that you're used to doing on the desktop, it will often not register at all in the emulator. - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo 1973 is sold out...
I think we need to look at this project more along the line of 'Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country' JFK. This project is kind of like an investment into the future of mobile phones. If you are here just so that you can findout more about the handset that you would like to get then wait until october, and let FIC work things out. It seems to me that people are more interested in the hand set then the openmoko project. This is obviously a difficult change of direction for FIC, well now openmoko, so give them some slack. Be patient things will come along. You will be treated fairly. It seems like when something doesn't go 100% smooth that you get this type of post. That seems down right silly to me. This is in development stages don't expect everything to be in 100% working order, and that goes for communication in the mailing lists as much as it goes for the development of the phone. I think we all just need to relax and wait for an official announcement before we go speading FUD about the project. If we want to see openmoko survive then we need to give them some room to breath. For me it feels like people are just smothering FIC. If you get some new relivent information like the information posted here then post it. But for everyone else give it some time for FIC to respond. I think things are proceeding well. When we get some more information from FIC then we can start making judgements and assetments, but until then settle down. Just some of my thought after reading this post. Thanks, Matt On 8/6/07, Yohann (yrc) Coppel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't want to say stupid things, but, AFAIK: The device is sold out since yesterday !!! And it was Sunday (maybe Monday in their timezone). Give them some time (I mean one day or two at least !!) Maybe they had a whole bunch of orders this weekend, and they had to change quickly the page while keeping processing the orders. This doesn't implies that they are planing to stay silent for the rest of the month, or that they are not going to contact anyone, or not accept any cancellations, or [write here any other criticism you have made]. (If I am totally wrong, I don't even want to know ok ? ;) ) So take it easy ;) I want a GTA02 device too, and I hope they will be ready for the release ! If they are sold out, it's a good sign isn't it ? means that a lot of people are interested ! and that we are all together going to make a good phone (and birds will be flying around, the sun shining, and everything :D ) ! I have been around on the IRC channel for the last few days, and I found the community really friendly, especially with newbies, which is IMHO, one of the most important things. I feel comfortable to ask questions to get started to develop apps for openmoko, which is really nice. Yohann. (aka. leppoc on IRC). On 8/6/07, Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Stirling wrote: We need to know, in decreasing order: Is the GTA02 hardware likely to be able to SHIP to developers in October? Have any changes been made to the published GTA02 specifications other than the new LEDs? How many outstanding orders are there for the GTA01? What is the current GTA01 production volume? Do you not really want to sell the GTA01 at all? I feel like I've been doing a lot of complaining on the list lately, but I have to agree 110%. Everyone is always saying things like be grateful for the information you've been given and this is more 'open' communication than with other companies. While those may be true, this project is different. Sean does communicate directly with the community. At one point we were somewhat kept in the loop, now we get nothing (ok, not nothing). I for one am glad that I did not purchase the GTA01. The entire process (at least from what I have read) has been at best a complete disaster, and it still isn't over or even getting better. FIC may not have ever done B2C, but that still doesn't excuse them from doing *basic* customer support and follow up. Sure, the demand may have been *MUCH* larger than expected and that will inevitably cause delays. However, a completely brain dead simple way of handling that would be to (gasp) communicate with the people who attempted to purchase the device. You have everyones contact information...is it *really* that hard or take THAT much time to keep people in the loop for something they have tried to pay for? The little things do make a difference, and in this case the little things that weren't done really spoke badly as to how FIC will take care of its customers, present and future. Enough complaining about B2C. Now on to overall company direction. I really want this project to succeed and I want a GTA02 device. But why the lack of communication from people? Honestly, I just don't understand how keeping quiet can be
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying. Sounds like a good nitch to hit. I would be interested in a program like that I wonder what it would take to make one? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
On 7/20/07, Adam Krikstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IRC and lists are great tools at sending and distributing information fast. However, as more users, especially ones with little to no experience with linux, begin purchasing neo's these lists will be inundated with drivel. There is only ~1000 people on this list and look at simple problems with a glitch with gmail. I get 90+ messages about is gmail broken, gmail isn't working, I think it is gmail, etc. Do you really want to check your inbox and get 5000-1+ messages about simple mundane things as the neo's are released to the mass market? I suggested a forum to act as a buffer between the public and IRC/lists. The IRC/lists can be for developers/advanced users and consumers can stay in the forums. I agree. I don't understand why people are so opposed to having a forum. It doesn't mean that if we had a forum we had to shut down the mailing list. And no one is suggesting that mailing lists are outdated. I think, at least for me, adding the strengths of another great tool to the growing list of already great tools is a good idea, especially once this starts hitting the market. I think there are some definate strengths that a mailing list has that a forum could never have. From my experiance I have found forums to be a great tool for the novice to advanced user. People who know what they are talking about can help the beginer users and people who have more dificult questions can turn to the mailing list. And if people on the dev team want to poke around in the forums the merrier but they don't have to. I for one think that forums could really enhance the community. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
I can respect that. I understand that the Openmoko team is streached pretty thin. And I wish I had some skills to volunteer to build a forum, but I can't I am more software driven and have no experiance with web development. Maybe someone else can do this. I don't think opening a forum will dilute much energy, but I can see where you are coming from. We are not really a big enough community to launch another communication avenue. I just hope that the openmoko can see how this will help support a good customer base without much intervention on their part, hopefully. What I would hate to see is that when the phone is launched in 6 months that we don't have anything waiting for those novice users and they get turned off by the idea and it get's a bad rep from the start. I want this project to suceed so badly. I think this is exactly what the communication world needs. I think it offers the strength of linux and the community, but bands it together around a common goal. I think that really emboldens linux and it's users to know that there is support for those who are a littly weiry about trying linux. Linux is a scary word to a lot of people, but if you say don't worry about it we have 1000+ people ready and willing to help with what ever you might have then I think they would be much more willing to accept. I think a forum would be a very easy and cost effective way to do this. I noticed the trouble they had with trying to open a store front end and I am worried that if they wait to long to get a forum up we could run into the same problem, and for a general consumer that could spell disaster. I am very impressed with the progress that the openmoko team don't get me wrong I just really think that a forums is necessary for the sucess of the neo 1973 and I am afraid that no resources will be devoted to this. So maybe what a solution could be is if someone can get a forum up. And let openmoko just route forums.openmoko.com to it. I noticed that openmokoforums.com has been snatched up and along with a few other domains. I would like to see a forum sponsered by FIC/OpenMoko team. Maybe I am jsut blowing smoke and irritating people, but I just really really want openmoko to be sucessful and for me I think that means forums. On 7/20/07, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mathew Davis wrote: And I don't understand why we can't have both. I really don't see the problem so if someone could explain why not having a forum would be advantageous and not just personal preferance I am all ears, because I could list a lot of reasons why forums could be advantageous. I appreciate your viewpoint but here are a few reasons: 1. Our community is small -- spreading the discussions thinly before we have reached critical mass will dilute the synergy. We are just now starting to come together as a community, and I think we even have too many mailing lists as it is (not always clear on which one to discuss X). 2. The OpenMoko team at FIC are spread _very_ thin and lack the time/resources to research and establish a forum themselves. They were overloaded just getting a basic storefront up. I don't understand why a company the size of FIC isn't providing more logistics support to them, so they can focus on the hardware/software but that's the way it is today. 3. Because of #2 and the fact this is the world of free/open, groups are welcome to establish a forum someplace and announce it here. In fact no one can stop it. Then instead of debating it you apply the governance principle of open source, in that if you build it will they come. If so, you were right. If not, you were wrong. A very objective approach. And for those (another thread) who are looking for someone official to tell them how this or that is going to be done on the device, I think we as a community will be applying #3 above - teams will form and follow their (quite likely divergent) visions. Those who (1) produce results that (2) some significant portion of the community approve of will have their work integrated into the core as required/optional packages. And some fraction of those will be cherry-picked by FIC for delivery in the consumer distribution. And perhaps other flash images will arise targeted at the power user and the gaming user and the multimedia user. Being open source folks and time-constrained themselves, I rather think that the OpenMoko team will be blessing running code and not managing the various teams that form. And that is good, because they cannot see the future uses of this device any better than we at this point. Not a planned economy but a chaotic marketplace of competing ideas, where decisions are made in the free/opensource tradition of running code and rough concensus. Scary sure, but also refreshing and very exciting. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
I agree. I posted a while back about a forum, and it was clearly not the time yet for one. But as phones are now being shipped and people will have actual units I think The list could get really messy. I think a forum offers a lot of advantages over the mailing list for some things. It is good for editing, grouping, and for research. So if this helps I will use it and I am sure so will alot of other people. On 7/19/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seconded! Please open a forum.openmoko.org ! I'd love to post some spontaneous ideas, discuss stuff, ask and answer small questions etc. but I often don't want to spam the whole mailing list with it. Ortwin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Feds snub open source for 'smart' radios
Here is an article I stubled upon while reading slash dot. http://news.com.com/Feds+snub+open+source+for+smart+radios/2100-1041_3-6195102.html?tag=nefd.lede It doesn't affect the neo1973 coming to america does it? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What, no GPS?
Correct me if I am wrong anyone, but I was under the impression that AGPS is shipping in all models. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware On 6/28/07, BJ Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't help but notice that GPS is not on the list of scheduled upgrades in the recent announcement. Is that a confirmed no for GPS, or had it already been confirmed yes and I missed something or am I off altogether? At any rate, GPS or no GPS this is going to be an exciting device. Great work guys. -BJ Quinn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will Openmoko ever see the light of day? Was Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics
That is very exciting news. I look forward to more from Sean sortly. How did you find that article? On 6/15/07, Thomas Gstädtner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some (pretty good) news: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/15/#20070615-gta01-factory-trip 2007/6/15, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thursday 14 June 2007 23:45:29 Jonathon Suggs wrote: Well as far as we know (no *official* word) the models (GTA-01) that you have actually are vaporware as far as we are concerned since they are not going to be mass producing them in favor of rolling out the GTA-02's. Which assuming GTA-02 doesn't take much longer, would be a bad thing why? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Seamless switching from gprs to wifi calling
Thanks for all the input. Sounds very interesting. I didn't realize that UMA isn't VoIP. I don't want to use t-mobiles system. I was thinking of how I could do it without using their system, but the same idea. Sounds like I have got a lot fo reading ahead of me and that this problem is bigger than I thought it would be. Just to make sure I got every thing right GPRS is to slow. Inorder to get something like this to work you need the following: Client software capable of handling 2 streams sip and gsm. It also has to know when to hand over from one to the other. You also need a server that can handle the 2 streams and know when to throw away the extra data. Does that sound right? Just want to make sure I understand what you guys wrote. That IMS thing sounds interesting I will have to do some research on that. Thanks for the info. On 6/8/07, Luit van Drongelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To get back to what Mathew asked: I don't think a T-Mobile [EMAIL PROTECTED] is switching calls back and forth as you get in reach of a hotspot, and walk away from it. Secondly: this only works with T-Mobile! (for now) T-Mobile has probably set up a [EMAIL PROTECTED] call server near their GSM traffic backbone, on which your phone logs in, and through which your GSM traffic goes (with that UMA protocol) while you're logged in (in reach of a public (T-mobile) hotspot). Calls that already take place can't be re-routed I guess... Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that firstly: you need T-Mobile as your operator. Secondly: you need that T-Mobile HotSpot @home plan. Thirdly: you need a phone that's capable of routing your GSM traffic through UMA, to the T-Mobile UMA server/backbone/whatever they call it. As for the Neo1973 and OpenMoko: The phone can most likely do it, because the software just needs to know how to do it. BUT, I don't think T-Mobile will tell you how to log in. T-Mobile makes the phone software themselves for a reason. If they show you how to make a phone log in, you can make a program that logs your computer in too. So a FOSS solution for this probably won't come easily. -- Luit PS: sorry for the double post Johnson, it bounced because I mailed from the wrong account On 6/8/07, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check the archives for a full discussion of this. In short GPRS is unsuitable for VoIP because of the high latencies, often in seconds. The GSM data mode is more suitable even though it's only 9600. It should be possible to have Asterisk route calls to the right VoIP endpoint, or to a GSM voice call if it can place calls to the PSTN. The trick comes in knowing when to hand over, and having a unified client that'll get Asterisk to do it. On Friday 08 June 2007 06:21, kenneth marken wrote: mathew davis wrote: Dear community, I am not sure if this is a widely known thing or not, but I just found out about it and had some questions about this working on the neo. T-mobile has hotspots all around my area, but have been experimenting with a new service called T-mobile HotSpot @Home. It uses a UMA (unlicensed mobile access) technology to allow phones to switch from cellular connection to Wi-Fi connection. And also makes it possible for VoIP calls. So this is something that is very interesting to me only I would like it to be a little different, I don't want to use T-Mobile's service I would like to use my Wi-Fi connection to my VoIP of choice. I know this has been talked about before with some options including an Astrex box forwarding the call to your cellphone until your in range then switching to Wi-Fi but that was not a very seamless transistion from my understanding. So I guess my question is could we impliment a UMA type of technology for the neo that is customizable to use our VoIP provider? Or since that particular part is locked we wouldn't have access to that part? Just curious. When I get the phone I will be playing with trying to find a solution to this problem. I have very limited knowlege about this kind of thing. I am not an experianced programmer yet. I only have about 3 yers of indestry experiance, but none of that is mobile development and almost none of it is linux related, so I have a bit of a learnign curve so that is why I am asking the question here. while not fully up to speed on how it all works, here is my quick take on it: as long as its a voip connection, and said voip service allows two ip's to share a account and call, there should be little to no problem having both a wifi and gprs connection open at the same time as one moves about (in my experience a gprs connection can be held open but not used). hell, one may even use bluetooth if it can handle the data transfer. the problem here is that ip thing. UMA has a normal mobile phone connections as one option so therefor dont have to think about multiple ip's. it just need to have a internet
Seamless switching from gprs to wifi calling
Dear community, I am not sure if this is a widely known thing or not, but I just found out about it and had some questions about this working on the neo. T-mobile has hotspots all around my area, but have been experimenting with a new service called T-mobile HotSpot @Home. It uses a UMA (unlicensed mobile access) technology to allow phones to switch from cellular connection to Wi-Fi connection. And also makes it possible for VoIP calls. So this is something that is very interesting to me only I would like it to be a little different, I don't want to use T-Mobile's service I would like to use my Wi-Fi connection to my VoIP of choice. I know this has been talked about before with some options including an Astrex box forwarding the call to your cellphone until your in range then switching to Wi-Fi but that was not a very seamless transistion from my understanding. So I guess my question is could we impliment a UMA type of technology for the neo that is customizable to use our VoIP provider? Or since that particular part is locked we wouldn't have access to that part? Just curious. When I get the phone I will be playing with trying to find a solution to this problem. I have very limited knowlege about this kind of thing. I am not an experianced programmer yet. I only have about 3 yers of indestry experiance, but none of that is mobile development and almost none of it is linux related, so I have a bit of a learnign curve so that is why I am asking the question here. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Publicity
nice picture. That get's me all sorts of excited for the phone. On 6/6/07, Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You asked for it and you got it... Here is a link to a frontpage slashdot article. http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/06/1327238 It links directly to this page http://www.hothardware.com/image_popup.aspx?image=big_fic2.jpgarticleid=979t=a Just thought that I would share. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: Iphone eat your heart out.
No nothing on it yet. On 5/17/07, Duncan Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mathew davis wrote: Now the neo can hold as much memory as the upcoming Iphone but better. Samsung just announced that it has developed an 8 Gigabyte microSD memory card. That means that the $350 neo equiped with a 8GB microSD card will have the same storage capacity as the 600 + 2 year contract Iphone. Just would like to say keep up the good work to every one on the team. I know you have been working your buts off and I for one sincerly appreciate it. With all the talk of not being able to wait for the I phone, I would like to say that I am patiently waiting through the thick and thin for the phone. I am excited about the progress made and am also glad to hear any update weither it be good or bad, I am loyal to the end. http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070517_346824 No indication, though, of when it will ship or how much it will cost is there? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
I would be interested to know what you thought were strong suits of the phone. Programs you liked, and other things that the phone does well. Just curious I guess. I like hearing about the phone from people who have actual models. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Phase 1+ discount quantity
Yeah I can't imagine FIC doing even a 1:2 ratio. Unless the discount isn't substantial by any means. Like $5 dollars off and a 1:5 ration maybe but then that wouldn't really be a great discount would it. I just can't see them doing anything but a 1:1 ratio. But that's just my opinion On 5/14/07, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/14/07, Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, The details of the P1+ discount for people who buy a P1 aren't out yet but I wanted to put forward this question anyway. Do you think this discount will be locked in a 1:1 relationship? ie, buy one P1 and get a discount on one P1+ Or do you think we will be able to buy say, two discounted P1+ phones even if we only bought one P1 phone? The details are not know as of now. We do not even know if there will be a discount at all. Personally, if I was FIC I would let it be a 1:1, so if you buy 1 phone, you can get 1 phone of the next model with a discount. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-Touch
On 4/3/07, adrian cockcroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is key:- Pressure has almost no effect on a single touch, but not so on a double touch. The relative pressures will cause a significant skewing effect towards the harder touch. You can easily move the pointer along the line between your two fingers by changing the relative pressure. So we will not see clearly defined bounding box limits. The point will skate around within the limits depending on relative pressure. So I guess we need someone with a device to test this and see how much pressure actually affects the neo touch screen. With that information I think we could see how easy it would be to get an average bounding box approximation.. The first finger will set a clear start point, the second finger will make that point shoot off towards it, but it will not go all the way to the second touch. The effect should be to oscillate along the line between the two end points, and it wont return to the position of the first touch. If we capture a clear single touch, and an average position of oscillation, then we can take the average oscillation to be the center of the bounding box, and project an estimate of the opposite corner where the second touch should be. With the right filtering and limiting algorithm it should be possible to get the effect we want. If we can give visual feedback on the screen showing the touch points and bounding box it may help the user control the input better. Ok so what if this feature was disabled by default. Since enabling it might slow some functionality. When the user enables the feature he/she will have to go through a config which does a calibration. The user runs through several scenarios where the program can gather the relative pressure difference in known circumstance with the desired result known as well. It could then store that information in a database based on which user is using it, if there are multi users, if not just store it in a config file. Challenges: In comparison with a true dual touch input device, its going to react more slowly as the algorithm will need to gather more data to decide where the pointer should be. Some of the faster moving single touch gestures may be hard to distinguish from multi touch. Adrian I agree, but it would still be a nice feature to have and I could deal with a little lag for added feature especially if I could enable it or disable it. With the single touch fast gestures we could set that up inside of the calibration also. That way if it thinks it's multi touch it compares it with it's database which links it to the single touch fast gesture instead. It would be slow but you could disable the multi touch option and then single gestures would be fast again. Or we could have the multi touch be enabled in certain programs like web browsing or picture viewing, and disabled for the rest. But I think a simple button in the header or footer should work alright. You could have it turn green when active and red when deactivated. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VoIP call transfer?
That's good to know. I wasn't suggesting that we use skype that's just the first example that came to mind. Thanks for the info I will stay away from skype. On 3/30/07, Henryk Plötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moin, Am Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:08:28 -0700 schrieb Matthew S. Hamrick: From an application perspective, I have a contact at eBay labs who's been pressuring the Skype team to release an ARM/Linux binary. Just my 0.02 EUR at this: Skype is everything that the Neo is not. It is the definition of closed-source, proprietory software. It does ghastly things (google for Silver Needle in the Skype by Philippe Biondi and Fabrice Desclaux) and a lot of open source developers in their right minds would probably refuse to support Skype. And it is controlled by a single vendor under US jurisdiction, which in these days precludes from using it for anything that might be business confidential. My intuition tells me that it should be possible to set up this functionality purely with open protocols/software and/or a local provider that you can at least remotely trust. IMHO all Neo VoIP work should turn away from Skype and focus on SIP/IAX/H.323. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
VoIP call transfer?
I have an itch that I would like to explain to you and give an idea of how to overcome that itch and see if that is possible or not, and if so a good idea or not. So first here is my itch. I have a VoIP phone at home which uses my WiFi connection to make calls using skype. I like that it helps lower my cell phone bills a lot since I started a new business and it takes a lot of calls to make it sucessful. But I am not always at home sometimes I am just 5 minutes out from home and recieve a phone call I talk on the way home and then to cut my minutes short I tell them I will call them right back and then hang up switch to my VoIP phone. That gets old sometimes. Granted it is not a very big itch but it is annoying. So I have come up with several solutions. First, with the neo I could get a plan that includes data with my minutes and I could use skype or some other VoIP solution like astrisk. Which in turn would be great. Oh also another question can you get a data only plan? Just curious I know some people may or may not have mentioned it but the thread that it was mentioned in has over 80 e-mails and couldn't find it right off. But let's pretend that for somereason you didn't want to add a data plan to your mobile device because it was too expensive or what ever. Would it be possible for the neo to know when you step into range of a WiFi network that you have acess to? And after it notices the WiFi connection it pops up a button on the screen that say's transfer to VoIP? You say hold on a sec and press the button. The neo then puts the user on hold and transfers the call to your VoIP line on your neo where you pick it up, or the neo picks it up. The voice line then hangs up the call and puts the person back on the line with you. Does that make since? Also when making a call and I am in range of a WiFi network a check box or a seperate call with VoIP button appears that allows you to place the same call over the VoIP? Does that make since? Just wanting to get everyones opinions on this. This is a feature that I would like very much. I have internet at home which has a 15Mbps transfer rate with a 1000GB cap so I should be free and clear with this. I would love to have this feature. I would like to learn how to do this on the neo but would definatly need more time to research it out. Plus I would need more time to work on it, maybe when I graduate school. I would also need someone to help me. Any ways I am starting to ramble so please let me know what you think about this? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: VoIP call transfer?
Yeah with such a closed minded an answer as that I can ignore it almost instintively. Thanks for the spell check sometimes my mind goes faster than my spelling. This sounds like a really good alternative. Thanks for the post. I will now more eagerly look forward to the neo. Will there need to be any special settings/programming made to the neo to make the outbound calls? On 3/28/07, Paul McMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For starters, a friendly reminder that it's spelled sense. That said, the way to do this is not with skype, but with Asterisk. If you route ALL your incoming calls through an asterisk box (whether hosted by you, or by a service provider) it should be possible to manage completely seamless transitions. It would look something like this: Your contact calls your phone number the call is routed to your asterisk box your asterisk box checks to see if you're in a WiFi area You are presented with the call, with the option to take it via wifi or gsm If you take it via wifi, your asterisk box routes the call via SIP or IAX directly to your phone. If you take it via GSM, your asterisk box calls the PSTN and routes the call through itself to the phone via the regular cell network When you transition zones (going to wifi from gsm, or the other way around), the asterisk box establishes a call via the other protocol, bridges the voice, then once your neo device has fully transitioned itself over to the new medium, it disconnects the previous call. So your contact never has direct access to your cell number. Instead, they call your voip number which is routed as is convenient for you. When you transition zones, the most trouble you will have is perhaps a slightly click or momentary dead air as the device transitions over. If you accidentally wander out of range of your wifi, the asterisk box will notice this and automatically call you via gsm, which the phone will pick up automatically. This won't be as seamless, but it won't result in a completely lost call. It's also worth noting that this system can be functional for outgoing calls as well, so long as you route all calls via your asterisk box. This has the side effect of making international calls via from your cell cheap and easy. Paul p.s. Ignore the guy who has no imagination... most things are possible with a little thought. On 3/28/07, mathew davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an itch that I would like to explain to you and give an idea of how to overcome that itch and see if that is possible or not, and if so a good idea or not. So first here is my itch. I have a VoIP phone at home which uses my WiFi connection to make calls using skype. I like that it helps lower my cell phone bills a lot since I started a new business and it takes a lot of calls to make it sucessful. But I am not always at home sometimes I am just 5 minutes out from home and recieve a phone call I talk on the way home and then to cut my minutes short I tell them I will call them right back and then hang up switch to my VoIP phone. That gets old sometimes. Granted it is not a very big itch but it is annoying. So I have come up with several solutions. First, with the neo I could get a plan that includes data with my minutes and I could use skype or some other VoIP solution like astrisk. Which in turn would be great. Oh also another question can you get a data only plan? Just curious I know some people may or may not have mentioned it but the thread that it was mentioned in has over 80 e-mails and couldn't find it right off. But let's pretend that for somereason you didn't want to add a data plan to your mobile device because it was too expensive or what ever. Would it be possible for the neo to know when you step into range of a WiFi network that you have acess to? And after it notices the WiFi connection it pops up a button on the screen that say's transfer to VoIP? You say hold on a sec and press the button. The neo then puts the user on hold and transfers the call to your VoIP line on your neo where you pick it up, or the neo picks it up. The voice line then hangs up the call and puts the person back on the line with you. Does that make since? Also when making a call and I am in range of a WiFi network a check box or a seperate call with VoIP button appears that allows you to place the same call over the VoIP? Does that make since? Just wanting to get everyones opinions on this. This is a feature that I would like very much. I have internet at home which has a 15Mbps transfer rate with a 1000GB cap so I should be free and clear with this. I would love to have this feature. I would like to learn how to do this on the neo but would definatly need more time to research it out. Plus I would need more time to work on it, maybe when I graduate school. I would also need someone to help me. Any ways I am starting to ramble so
Re: VoIP call transfer?
Looks interesting i will have to take a look thanks. On 3/28/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/28/07, Matthew S. Hamrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew... what you're describing is sometimes called Fixed Mobile Convergence. Or rather, the FMC term has grown to encompass the scenario you describe. according to their website, www.grandcentral.com will provide this kind of service... I didn't dig deep enough to figure out how they do it, but they might provide out of the box access to what you want (they claim to be free). Wish I could give you a thumbs up/down on how it works, but I've only got one phone myself. anyways, check it out if you're interested -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
E-mail style voicemail.
All, I have some questions I hope people could help with. I couldn't help but notice that the iphone(sorry for the swear word) used a e-mail type interface for viewing voice mails. That feature looks very interesting to me. Now I am sure they have that pattented but does anybody know what about it they pattented? I was thinking about this, as I would like to have it on the Neo as I will buy one, what if this was on the neo also. So I got to thinking how one could do this and I came up with an idea. So here is my idea and please tell me if it's stupid and why, it's already been pattented, or that's a good idea here is how you could improve on it. First instead of routing the call to the service providers voice mail after so many calls, have it get routed to the neo's onboard voice mail system. This system could record the audio save it and add an e-mail like layer to it like, SuchAndSuch person called @ 9:30 pm 03/26/07 1 min 23 sec for example. It could then save them on the phone. Now I know this is kind of memory expensive so I thought of some other alternatives to this also. If you want the advanced feature of listening to the calls in whatever order you heard them in then you would have to save them on the phone it's self or upload the audio samples to a webserver of some sort and when connected you could listen to them in what ever order. Another approach if the person didn't want the wasted space could still see the messages in a e-mail type invironment but couldn't listen to the messages in what ever order for the neo after recording when the call was made by who and finishes recording the message could then route the call to the service providers voice mail and send it the recorded message. Now I don't know difficult this would be. And I can't say that I am experianced enough with this, although I would like to be, to impliment it myself. I just thought I could post my idea to the community to try and add my $0.02 to help better the community. Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
openmoko future
I have been very interested in the openmoko development and I see a lot of potential. I was just wondering where the openmoko project is projecting it's self to be in the next 5-10 years. For example will it stick to phones or will it also include PC's? Will it have a server version? I think this could be a real amazing operating system/platform/firmware. You can see Apple and Microsoft jumping all over this 3rd generation UI tools. I think Apple is focusing on the touch and Microsoft on the Voice. I think openmoko is in a unique position to offer both, as I have noticed posts about the sound analyzing also. Wouldn't it be great if you could work on your computer and then on your way home just pick up your neo and start working on it on the bus, train, subway, or when you get home. You could have an openmoko server that your pc connected to, your phone connected to, and you know maybe a future tablet based computer that connected to it. It could manage all your documents. Then you could have a storage space, control backups, data protection, and the list goes on. I wish I knew more about being a developer. I am a student now and am about to start my operating systems class. I hope I will be able to contribute more to the project in the future. I am just wondering what the projects future plans are. Here are some cool links to the touch pad technology. It was a presentation done by Jeff Han and he just finished another one this tuesday I believe but the video is not released yet. Here is the link where you will find the one he did over a year ago. And keep posted for the new one. http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_han It's a cool site any way. Maybe someday openmoko will be presenting there also. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Is there really such a thing as a data plan card ? I can't find that on the gophone section of the cingular site. It only lists: $15 30 days $25 90 days $50 90 days $75 90 days $100365 days As far as I understand it you can get a sim card without having to buy a phone. At least I was able to do it with t-mobile. I had a phone already and I just signed up for a plan and told them I just needed a sim card and then got one out and configured it and I popped it into my phone. Now one thing I could recommend is that there are a lot of subsidies that come with phones. If you get a plan and don't get a phone you kind of forfeit your subsidy. So what I did was go to wirefly for their great rebates(make sure you fully understand their rebate policy or you'll get screwed, like you have to make 1 call from the phone, etc..) and then sell the locked phone on e-bay(make sure you mention it's locked to a provider) or try and unlock it which isn't that hard and that's how you can get cash subsidy. But that's just a suggestion. I have a feeling that both tmobile and cingular are going to do whatever they can to prohibit the openmoko phones. And I'm thinking the cheaper smartphone data plans will only work on cingular's devices, right? Like the device has to do something in order to be able to make use of it- some technical limitation? Otherwise I don't know why cingular sells two different plans, the smartphone 5mb is $9.99 and the Data Connect 5MB is $19.99. I don't get how else they'd be different. Would the neo be compatible with both? Who knows? I hope someone from the openmoko project reads this thread. I personally don't think they could technically discriminate the Neo1973 unless you let them upload their firmware patches to your phone which would be silly. Here is what I could gather about cingular's data plan and it looks like it might be area specific, example it asks me to input an area code which leads me to believe that it might change depending on where you live. So I will try to generalize this for everyone. It looks like it depends on your usage, or how much you download. In my area 5MB is 19.99, 10MB is 29.99, 20MB is 39.99, and unlimited is 44.99. Again I think it would be best to call cingular. They don't need to know that you will be using a neo1973 I don't think that would really change a thing just tell them your phone is capable of browsing the Internet in a PDA type fashion that should be enough information. The phone doesn't have to do anything to access the plan it's the sim card that tells the provider wither or not to let the phone access the Internet and what limit it has. If you are still unsure you can try out the different data plans if it's not quite what you want upgrade they will probably make you sign another contract if you are under a contract but if you do it all quickly it will probably only extend your contract a month or two. For the smart phone data plan I think that is unlimited restricted access. I would doubt very much that they would let you have full Internet browsing for only $20.00 a month. SO basic rule of thumb if it sounds cheap and convent it's not what you want. They are here to make money so if your device can browse a lot expect to pay a lot. I don't think you will need to step up into the laptop plan because that's way more than what you will probably be doing with the Neo1973, but I could be wrong again if it's not enough upgrade. Also a quick note I don't think you want any of the blackberry plans either. They seem to be tailored to e-mail and basic Internet browsing, but then again that might be what you want. My suggestion is that you probably want the Data Connect plan for either 39.99or 44.99 but that's just a guess. You are more than welcome to start at the 19.99 and work up until it works for you. OK, you're saying no matter what plan I sign up for with cingular, even prepaid, I have to buy a phone from them too, right? I can't like, go on ebay and buy a cheap used phone and still sign up with cingular, even prepaid? The one useful piece of info I may have then, is to tell you about the service I have now. I have ecallplus.com, which resells cingular. They have a few GSM plans, and you can bring your own phone... So if your sprint phone breaks you may have a cheaper path to GSM through them for your holdover. I really don't think you need to buy a phone to get a sim card. Call cingular and ask this question Can I just get a sim card with a plan? they will say yes or no. P.S. - I still think your best bet is to go to a store. If they ask what phone it is for tell them it's for a phone similar to the blackberry pearl or treo. If they still ask tell them it's for the neo 1973 if they say they don't support that phone tell them they are stupid because they do. I have purchased an unlocked sonyericsson w850i phone off e-bay. I had no plan so I signed up for a plan through wirefly and
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Mike, As to the contract you don't need a 2 year contract to get a sim card. In fact as far as I know even a pre-paid plan, in which you pre pay for minutes, will get you a sim card. you also don't _need_ to sign up for a data plan, but I would bet if your getting this for the neo1973 you will have more features like google maps, internet browsing, and many other features that would require a data plan. At least that has been my experiance here in the USA. As far as ecallplus I have no idea I have never looked at them before I bet you could find the answers you are looking for on their site. I also think the openmoko.com site should have information on services somewhere. It's such a fundamental question- what services can I use openmoko with? What services are you looking for? You should check the wiki I think it covers just about everything you could ever dream of relating to the open neo1973. If it's not on the wiki and it's not been part of the e-mail's then chances are it doesn't have it. If you are talking about which provider has the neo1973 none do yet it's only in phase 0. If you want to pick up the neo1973 you will have to wait until september. Unless you want to sign up for the developer version which will be comming out soon. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
On 3/9/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks by why don't I need to sign up for a data plan? Can I get on the web/internet without a data plan? Can I dial up like I asked in my last email? And if I can, then couldn't I just get google maps by opening up a web browser on my neo and going to maps.google.com, what's the advantage of a data plan? AFAIK you need a data plan if you want to surf the web. There might be alternatives to getting internet acces to your neo but I don't know of them. And maybe someone could correct me on this point, but I think you can use your phone as a dialup device but that would give you internet to the computer which is using your phone as a modem. I guess you could use the bluetooth as a network adapter but I don't know if that will give you internet access if your network has it. As in what cell phone service plans- tmobile, cingular, contracts, sim cards, data plans, prepaid. what plans will it work with. This seems like an obvious set of common questions. The only thing I found on the wiki was A: Wikipedia has a list of providers and technologies here. A brief look gives the impression that T-Mobile and Cingular (which is renaming itself ATT) seem to be the only major ones. That's not enough. What ever services you can put on your sim card should work, example, unlimited text, any minute plan, any data rate plan, and any prepaid service you can get through t-mobile and/or cingular. So what ever services your provider offers, which you can find on their websites, should work on the neo1973. Now if I am wrong someone correct me please. Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What moblie service to get, part 2
Sorry those links are don't work. Also I don't know the answer to those questions you should visit a cingular/t-mobile store for those questions they don't have anything to do with openmoko so I can't help you I am sorry. They should be able to tell you which plan let you surf the internet and which plans allow you to just text and which plan just let's you download songs off their sight. I wish I could help out more here but you will have to ask someone who works at cingular/tmobile. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko Phase 0 has started
Congrats! I am jealous that I don't have one yet. Good job every one on the dev teams. I can't image it was easy. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple's multitouch pattent?
Thanks guys that is just what I wanted to hear. Now I am excited to see more of this stuff again. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Apple's multitouch pattent?
Just wonderign if any body knows for sure if apple has a pattent on their multi touch technology. check out this video on google. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6379146923853181774q=moviehl=en Very impressive stuff. I mean I am sure that this would probably be a lot of processing for the neo, but just looking at the video there are so many things that you can imagine you could do with this technology. This would be a perfect peice of technology for an open community. If it is pattented then I can't wait until someone else comes up with a similar technology. I counted that they had as many as 10 touches on the same panel at one time. I wonder if they just use some kind of sectioning or something. Any way's I am just curious. That and the voice control could change the way we interace with things. I have always thought that the interface between human and machine has developed very slowly. I mean the mouse and key board have been around for ever and they are still the standard method of communicating with a machine. Just thought I would post this question here as every one here seems to be very knowledgable about this kind of thing. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Possible security hole for Dialers/troyan horses
Here are a few options that I have thought of. What if there was a peice of software that was like an emulator that would run the binary on your computer before you uploaded it to your phone. That would to catch certain security flags, or potentially undesired behavior, letting the user know this binary could cause potentially harmful affects then give it a rating of some sort 1 - being safe/trusted program and 10 - being known bad binary/ don't use at any cost unless you really want bad things to happen. Another option would be to let the phone run it in a virtual mode, where to the program by all intents and purposes it was running on a fully functional phone. The program would then catch the out going streams, sms messages, or any other harmful things the program might or might not do. It could then generate a report showing what the program is trying to access and give it a safty rating on the same 1 - 10 scale. Of course the safest bet would just to web site that had fully tested and approved programs for the neo that users could find easy to use and had the programs that they were looking for and then inform users of the dangers of not using trusted software. Then put the responsibulity on the user. Ultimatly this is an open phone and we are trying to make it as open as possible. We don't want users to easily be able to shoot themselves in the foot and have a bad experiance with the phone, but at the same time we don't want this to turn into some kind of windows system where you have to jump through 50 hoops to get what you know is fine to work. Eventually it will come down to the user. We can have websites, forums, and blogs that help inform users about dangers and help them fix some of the damage they might have caused. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko workshop at ETel
Thnks for the info it answered a lot of questions I had. I get more and more excited about this project as it goes on. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re:Forums Page?
On 2/20/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I'd really prefer to keep what we have now until phase 2 (end-user mode). We just don't have the bandwidth to moderate a forum now. That is totally understandable. I can see that side of it also. I will use the wiki and mailing lists for now the combination can like Joe said cover everything. It will be nice to have the forums up when Phase 2 starts though. Thanks for the input, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Forums Page?
On 2/20/07, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's interesting to note that most youngsters seem to prefer forums, and most of us old-timers (IIRC you're my age, Joe) prefer mailing lists. I wonder why that is? I don't know how old you are, but I'm afraid I count as an oldster these days... there are some definite generational things I've noticed. Preference for forums (and the ongoing decline and slow death of usenet is related -- when my university stopped supporting it a few weeks ago because their upstream feed stopped, they told me I was the only regular usenet reader left on campus) is one of them; another is text messaging on phones. It just never occurs to me to send an SMS; I almost always email, and phone if that's impractical. It's funny that you mention that I am only 24 so I guess I would fit in the youngster category. I don't even know what usenet is. I guess that's why phones are starting to be the great meadator of communication between generations, you can e-mail now, SMS, or call. You can even use the GPS to show up at their door step. Funny how things are starting to merge together huh. Computer programs, internet programs, and phone programs. I bet in 5 - 10 years there won't be a distinguishable difference between the three. That's why I think this phone is so great. It is the start of the integration. Soon people will just have data associated with them. And they can access it from anywhere at anytime. I am excited to see where this OpenMoko and the OLPC things take us. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
