Re: Introducing CellHunter
Hallo Sebastian, as stated in a previous thread, I have been working on a logger of GPS/GSM data, for the openBmap project [1]. I was almost done when discovering through community updates the existence of your project. I decided to release before getting in touch with you. I had a look at your code. Please correct me if I am wrong. You send direct AT commands to the device, and do not use DBus FSO API? If so do you intend to keep it this way? In my logger, I use the DBus API. Thus I thought that we could try to build a common engine, and put GUIs on top of it. My idea would be to have an engine based on FSO API. On top of it have your game aspect. Stefan also pointed out that we could have the GSM/GPS logger + positioning system as a framework daemon. (please correct me if I misunderstood). What do you think? Source code is in the package[2], as it is Python based. [1] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065package_id=310952 Onen Quoting Sebastian Hammerl list-openm...@omoco.de: Hi, now I find the time to post on the community mailinglist and like to (already mentioned here) introduce myself and CellHunter. I am student right now and got together with some friends and imagined that we could have fun with cellids and games based on there cells. But for this we need a database to work on and so i started the project CellHunter [1]. CellHunter is a game where you collect cellids together with the gps position you received this cell. You are working in teams and get points for each cell you submit. The score for the submitted cell depends on the type of cell if it is already known or brand new. More about the point system on the homepage [2]. Right know the CellHunter database contains about 45 entries with ~9000 unique cells. 35 teams active and we get new cells everyday. I know that there a several other cell databases and i contacted opencellid two days ago and will contribute. Others are welcome to contact me. The license of the data is discussed at the moment, i think it will be cc-by-sa but because this project is very new and grows faster than i expected i just want to check available licenses and their pros and cons. The idea to create a database of cells is not new but to combine it with a game is something that motivates people to contribute. Here are some technical details about CellHunter: - offline and online logging of cells - logging of the main and up to 6 neighbourcells your mobile phone sees - statistcs displayed right on your freerunner - data displayable in google maps and osm - browsing osm cell map with dynamically loaded cell locations - export as kml / csv of the whole db or by team - teams of submitters with infotext about the group on the homepage - gui availabe in german and english Most of the already collected cells are located in germany and i would like to see some other countries to start their teams and collect points. You get ready to run FSO and debian packages on the homepage [2]. If you have any ideas or suggestions i would like to hear them. For german users: we discuss cellhunter at the freeyourphone forums [3] Greetings, Sebastian [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter [2] http://cellhunter.omoco.de [3] http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=9t=865 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, this has already been discussed in this thread on the devel list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004064.html What happens is that the license of data in the opencellid database is not clearly stated. People from openmoko has tried to contact them. We have tried two times over three months time to contact them also. We have no answer so far. No license does mean: you cannot use it at all, because you do not have any idea of your rights over it. Hope this answer your question. Onen Quoting Ed Kapitein e...@kapitein.org: Hi, Why setting up your own database, while opencellid has TotalCells:106120 acording to http://www.opencellid.org/cell/stats ? I think using there database will concentrate the data in on place and will give you a better coverage. Kind regards, @ On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 09:54 +0100, Onen wrote: Hi everyone, the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. As mentioned on the main page openBmap is a free and open map of wireless communicating objects (e.g. cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth). It provides tools to mutualize data, create and access this map. At this time, only cellular networks are concerned. All the software code is AGPL v3 and data are Creative Commons License (creative commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported), thus the data is free to use (in the same way as OpenStreetMap). Map status (last update 2009-02-06 03:30:31) Cellular: 6 countries, 9 mobile networks, 313 location area codes, 8905 cells This could be used for: * locate you on a map. You don't need to turn GPS on. And as your GSM is always on, and the database is located on your phone, it is instantaneous. This prevent your battery and your privacy (don't need to send your GSM data to anyone on the Web). * provide rough location (the GSM gives less precise result as GPS) to the GPS, in order to speed up first time to fix. * ... The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. If you want to get located through your GSM data, at the moment you can use the Web API [3]. There is a Web interface [4] available to use this API and display zones on a map. We hope many will upload! Privacy note: when you upload, exactly as with OSM, your logs allow to know where and when you were. You have been warned ;-) ! I copy/paste the README of the package at the end of this email. Onen [1] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065 [3] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/openbmap_api.php [4] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/cell_map.php README: openBmap logger version 0.1 What you should expect: * generation of logs * upload of logs Manual: Interface is straightforward. * A button to start generating logs. Values will be displayed when valid. Logs are stored under HOME/.openBmap/Logs by default. * A button to stop generating logs. Note that at the moment, the GSM part gets updated only after receiving an asynchronous update from the network. This means at start time, it is normal the GSM part does not display GSM information, even if you are registered to network. * A button to upload. This will block the interface until every log has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of the upload part. After succesfull upload, the logs are moved to HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default. Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr website, and fill the login/password in the configuration file before upload works. * A button to exit. Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap directory by default. Known bugs: * when you are generating logs, and you press 'Stop' button. A popup window let you know you should wait for the logger to finish stopping. Under FSO M5, if you press the power button, the phone suspends. You press it again it wakes up. Nevertheless the GUI is frozen. You will have to kill the process. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, here is the post of the thread I pointed out earlier explaining why this is not clear at all, and why we have tried to reach the people behind opencellid.org (without any success). http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004161.html quote The logo is placed next to the copyright for the website, so it could also stand for the license of the website... end of quote This dates back to January. Now to my understanding, the sentence (which is new to me): The data are available under the Creative Common license. which points to http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ lets me think it is now ok. Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: There are many creative commons licenses, some are permit commercial use, some don't. If you go one click further, you'd discover that the said Creative Commons licence chosed by OpenCellID is : http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Thanks. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, I had a look, but did not find a way to download the data? And what is the license? The whole point to me, is to have data with a license which lets me download it, and use it directly on my phone. I don't want to send my GSM coordinate to any third party on the Web to get my GPS position. It is a matter of privacy. Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
I have discovered this project as I was cleaning up my code for release. At first glance, the differences are: * It sends direct AT commands to the modem, and parse the responses. openBmap relies on freesmartphone.org * So far they only collect data. We already have the Web API available to use the data to get located. Nick has already done a lot of work to create the GSM coverage areas out of the raw datas. But now that I have released my work, I will get in touch with the people at cellhunter to see if we could cooperate. Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
For the moment our position is: We log the cell ids we get connected to. We do not log the neighbour cells. The reason is: if we are far from the cells, we will (maybe, this needs experimentation to my point of view) see the cells even very far. I fear that it would stretch the areas, and thus decrease the precision, nullifying the benefit of recording those additional cells. But, my idea, is to use the neighbour cells, to detect the overlapping region among areas of cells I currently see, to improve the precision. Any comments? Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: excuse me for the spam, but just thought of something else: do you guys also log information about neighbouring cells, like cellhunter does? this might also be interesting when you have gps coordinates the accuracy of the neighbouring cells are much lower ofcourse, but could also provide some very usefull info y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
No. If you look correctly at my response, I was responding to the message from Yorick, about http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:31 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, I had a look, but did not find a way to download the data? And what is the license? You mean data from opencellid? I guess the raw data link in their menu doesn't fit? Or try there http://myapp.fr/cellsIdData/ -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
If you are interested in getting the position of the cells, this point was discussed in the thread I pointed out earlier in this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004064.html Maybe this can help you with your work. Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:42 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: Any comments? That's the current position of my script too. But I wanted to log both the current cell and the respective levels of the neighbour cells. That way, I could try (with a lt of data) to guess the actual localization of the tower. Though that part only makes sense in my own business, and not necessarily in the general geolocation by GSM data-thing. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
