Re: handwriting recognition?

2008-06-17 Thread ramsesoriginal
Some time ago (or better: a long long time ago) someone in the list
posted a thread about handwriting rekognition on the Neo. In the title
there was also the word graffiti, and somone in the list said that
he's a graffiti official, and that it would be better to not use it
as a name to avoid eventual legal dispute..

As far as i know, there's already a handwriting rekognition on the openmoko..

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Msquared
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:29:17AM +0200, arne anka wrote:

 i liked palm's old graffiti very much (the new graffiti 2 is crap) and
 would like to be able to use a similar approach on my freerunner, too.

 I agree.  Single-stroke-per-character has advantages, I feel, in
 reliability and in lookups and other applications where each stroke
 counts.  I had problems in the phone lookup interface sometimes with
 Graffiti 2 - I really think they took a step backwards.

 Does anyone know who owns the IP on Graffiti?  I tried to hunt it down
 because I personally would like to see Graffiti on my Freerunner when I
 get it, since there is no hardware keyboard.  (I will miss my Treo 650's
 hw kb, but not the unfixable OS bugs!)

 Regards, Msquared...

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Re: moko running everything as root

2008-06-16 Thread ramsesoriginal
I don't read through the whole thread (i'm short on time, sorry), but
having users would be part of a good security in depth structure. You
talk about compromittingdata, but never thing ofotehr thinks. For
example: i have acess for some seconds  to the phone. runnign as root,
i change the dns to point to evil.com, which simply mirrors anotehr
dns, with the little addition that bank.com goes to
evil-phishing-copy-of-my-bank.com, and nowing the phone's owner, i
probably know his bank. Other use case: i go to starbucks, someone
accesses my phone, and opens a simple  two-way ssh tunnel to evil.com.
Then, when the moko islogged in the fortune-500 company this guy works
for, the bad guy logs in through this ssh-tunnel (going through gprs),
and is behind the firewalls, ids, etc, all undetected. You want more
use cases?

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
 If you have root AND user, root can make a backup copy of user's valuable 
 data
 every once in a while, and user or the virus she imported while browsing the
 web can NOT destroy this backup.
 I can't follow your arguments. It's NOT an evil person we need to fence in,
 it's bad behaviour of applications that go nuts on (virus|bug|user fault|*)

 If we don't start to care about this topic NOW, we will see lots of poor
 designed apps that rely on having root access where they shouldn't, and we
 end up in a situation like M$, where the whole system is so much root-centric
 that you simply can't switch to a sane user-management anymore, because it
 would break half the system. To fix those apps later is a major PITA.

 I just talked to Wolfgang Spraul and he answered
 But right now we are selling to hardcore developers only, so it's not
 our #1 priority.
 Once our software becomes more stable and mature, this needs to be
 addressed seriously. The good news is that the FOSS community is
 pretty paranoid about this, so I'm sure over time we will have a good
 solution.
 It's a FOSS project and you are the community, so just contribute! I'd say,
 do it *now*, as long as it's easy.

 cheers
 jOERG

 Hear hear.

 I would be willing to sacrifice any future features in favour of working
 on this first.

 As I think about the implications of this more and more its clear:

 Linux wins the security war not because of technology BUT BECAUSE OF OUR
 CULTURE.

 It is the culture of our users that makes us safer.  Hell, even Ubuntu
 is able to get noobs to follow the simplest security measures such as
 not running as root, surely we can do the same.

 I say let's learn from the mistake of M$ and lets out think then because
 we sure as hell aren't going to outcompete them.

 Rob

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GSoC projects

2008-06-16 Thread ramsesoriginal
Hi there.
Reading through the GSoC updates, i saw that (atl least) two used
Markov Model . I have no idea what that is, or how it's used, i just
wanted to ask if it's the same functionality? Because ifyes, joining
the forces and implementing a Markov Model Demon, which offers its
services through dbus, or a simple library,  would be cool, os that we
avoid code duplication.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear

2008-06-10 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jorge . wrote:
 Hello,

 This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in 
 order:

 Okay.
 1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about 
 the good reasons to buy one :)

 Right!
 2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract, the iPhone 3G 
 will be more expensive at the end, but this is not the situation of everyone.

 Not true, the iphone is subsidized the moko isn't.  If the moko was
 subsidized it would be free.  This is TRUE FOR EVERYONE.
 3) Apple will say all time that you will have to sign a contract to get an 
 iPhone, but in the reality they do nothing to stop people unlocking phones 
 and selling them without ATT contracts around the world (check ebay before 
 telling again you have to sign a contract!!!), because they get money for 
 that phones anyway. So I expect iPhones 3G being sold for $199 USD without 
 any contract around the world, and for most people does not matter if this 
 is legal or not.

 Again, not true.  On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract.
 If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than
 the $600 the phone is worth.

I am sorry for contraddicting, but you can get jailbraked iPhones for
around 200$,and the firmware of the 2.0 is already jailbraked since
some time, and even futher, some people are already trying to compil
linux for the iPhone 2.0.


 If you want to go ahead and throw away $600 bucks at the break of a
 contract and sell it on ebay go ahead.  Just stop posting nonsense.
 4) FreeRunner is a product, and need sales to survive. I will buy a 
 Freerunner instead an iPhone because i want a free phone, but many people 
 would prefer to buy an unlocked-hacked-nocontract iPhone on ebay for $199 
 than an OpenMoko for $399. am I clear enough?

 Not  clear at all.  If you were there would be no thread.  If you want
 to compare apples to apples, compare a subsidized iphone to a subsized
 moko, or unsubsidized iphone to an unsubsidized moko.

 There is NO POSSIBILITY of exception to this.  Just because a moko is
 not available as a subsidized device right now is irrelevant as its not
 available on the market.  More to the point the new iphone isn't
 available yet, just pricing.
 furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a 
 freephone have to be competitive  in price, not only in quality and 
 philosophy.

 This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing
 things that are not of equal value.  While it is fine for consumers to
 be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid,
 it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and
 understand the reality of the situation.

 Just compare equal things and stop posting flawed arguments and there is
 no thread.

 Best wishes
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Re: using the openmoko neo101 in mass storage mode

2008-05-31 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Andy Green wrote:
[snip]

 I think most phones that are capable of doing usb network/storage do this,
 as well as the Nokia tablet devices.

 It is not that difficult to make the software safely umount the
 sd/cf/whatever on the device, rmmod/insmod the drivers and make it available
 as a usb storage device to the host pc. Qtopia 4.4 will have this feature
 built in and software to allow the user to change it.

Sounds Great!


 To the user, its much easier than having to set up samba networking, and
 most windows users do not have ssh, and developers can set up access however
 they want it.


Exactly


[snip]


 --
 Lorn 'ljp' Potter
 Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech

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Re: multi-tutch?

2008-05-29 Thread ramsesoriginal
More or less I knew that, but, as you can see in the video/read in the
news, microsoft stated tat the Windows 7 Multitouch works on standard
touchscreens..

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Not really, normal touch screen tablets have a capacitive touch
 screen, which is why they usually only work with a special pen, and
 you can rest your hand on them.
 Correcting myself - from Wikipedia:
 Passive tablets, most notably those by Wacom, make use of
 electromagnetic induction technology, where the horizontal and
 vertical wires of the tablet operate as both transmitting and
 receiving coils (as opposed to the wires of the RAND Tablet which only
 transmit). The tablet generates an electromagnetic signal, which is
 received by the LC circuit in the pen. The wires in the tablet then
 change to a receiving mode and read the signal generated by the pen.
 Modern arrangements also provide pressure sensitivity and one or more
 switches (similar to the buttons on a mouse), with the electronics for
 this information present in the pen itself, not the tablet. On older
 tablets, changing the pressure on the pen nub or pressing a switch
 changed the properties of the LC circuit, affecting the signal
 generated by the pen, which modern ones often encode a digital data
 stream onto the signal. By using electromagnetic signals, the tablet
 is able to sense the stylus position without the stylus having to even
 touch the surface, and powering the pen with this signal means that
 devices used with the tablet never need batteries. Wacom's patents
 don't permit their competitors to employ such techniques.

 Cheers,
 Federico

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Re: Car Mode Application...

2008-05-28 Thread ramsesoriginal
Tadaaa.. the missing piece for the perfect Freerunner..

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ramsesoriginal wrote:

 Sounds all pretty intresting. The only problem I see is that 'till now
 we only have a location, but not a navigation app (even if that
 shouldn't be a probelm, when we have reliable maps).

 Why not?
 Navit [1] should do the work...!


 [1] http://www.navit-project.org/

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Re: multi-tutch?

2008-05-28 Thread ramsesoriginal
Ok, as most of you probably did by now, you heared about the Windows 7
presentation. The most precise of you may have noticed: All of the
multitouch is also aviable on normal touchscreens (in fact it was
shown on a normal tablet notebook).
Sooo.. what does this meen for us? simple: it's possible to
mimc full multitouch with a normal touchscreen.

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:47 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Joerg Reisenweber wrote:

 FR-TS is a resistive-4wire-type, which per se isn't capable of multitouch.
 I plan to investigate on some very hackerish tricks to get a little more of
 info out of this design, but for now: NO not possible.
 /jOERG

 I knew this, but it's neither possible to use the touchscreen particular
 gestures like many Synaptics touchpads: I mean tapping,
 double/triple-fingers tapping, two finger scrolling (mine, that is 5 years
 old does it!)...

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Re: Car Mode Application...

2008-05-27 Thread ramsesoriginal
Sounds all pretty intresting. The only problem I see is that 'till now
we only have a location, but not a navigation app (even if that
shouldn't be a probelm, when we have reliable maps).

In what language/toolkit do you plan to work?

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Staley, Daniel L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 So now that the freerunner is almost upon us (my friends will be glad when it 
 finally comes out after a year of telling them a couple months from now I'll 
 have it!),  I have thought about what my first project is going to be.

 Being the nerd and impulsive buyer I am, I have bought a wireless bluetooth 
 keyboard (perfect for the freerunner i think... 
 http://www.amazon.com/Stowaway-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth-Blackberry-Handhelds/dp/B0002OKCXE
  ) for programming on the go, an external GPS antenna with a magnetic end to 
 boost my GPS reception in the car, and finally a car phone/GPS dash holder 
 to have a place to set my freerunner while driving.

 I decided that I am going to try to implement a program that will give me the 
 most functionallity possible while driving...therefore (this may be wishful 
 thinking...so please tell me if something sounds impossible):

 (First plug in an FM transmitter to the freerunner's headphone jack to 
 transmit all sounds to the car stereo)
 * Play music and/or podcasts while scrolling the name of the current song 
 across the screen

 * Press a rather large button in the bottom right corner of the screen to 
 switch from music mode into direction mode.  In direction mode, the screen 
 displays Either a Large arrow pointing the direction of your location, or 
 displays the next road that needs to be turned on and how close it is in 
 large text. (Music/Voice from other modes should still be played while the 
 GUI displays this).  When the road approaches, the program should cut out the 
 music for a moment and use freeTTS to read something like Turn right on 
 Lovelaceville Road..  (The directions would of course have to have been 
 downloaded from wlan or GPRS)

 * If someone calls while the program is running, ideally I would like the 
 program to pause all music etc and say Incoming call from Fred and display 
 2 large buttons Ignore and Accept.  If accept is pressed, I want the 
 phone to go into speakerphone mode, but still to route the audio to the car 
 speakers.  I'm wondering if it would be possible to cancel out the repeating 
 of the caller's audio back into the microphone?  I'm not up to date on my 
 noise cancellation techniques ;).   If this doesnt seem plausable, just going 
 into speakerphone mode, or talking through a bluetooth headset will be 
 acceptable.

 * Once the voice recognition SoC project is done, I'd also like to interface 
 with that to implement voice commands for the program such as Moko, next 
 song or Moko, take call, or even Moko, new destination (followed by the 
 new destination so that typing it in prior to driving would not be nessiary.)

 What do you guys think?  Possible?  Are the interrupts sent from the GSM 
 modem on incoming call possible to catch before the dialer app gets them?  
 Would it be possible to get the voice cancellation good enough to implement 
 the phone over car speaker feature?  And finallywould anyone else be 
 interested in joining the project?

 If no one says that it would be impossible for some reason, I'll probably 
 start drawing up some test cases, examples screens, and basic code flow.

 -Dan Staley



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DE-crypting calls

2008-05-16 Thread ramsesoriginal
I was just wondering: we have seen the problems of encryptingcalls.
But what about decrypting them? Let*s say someone hasa method to call
you with some sort of encryption.. would it be possible to write a
decryption for it? Maybe public key?

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Programming in Ruby [WAS: Re: Freerunner games / using motion sensors in C]

2008-05-13 Thread ramsesoriginal
Hi there.
What about programmin in ruby? Are there already some bindings present
to access accellerometers/gps/bluetooth/etc ?
If not, are there any plans on making them?

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1

  Somebody in the thread at some point said:

  | If somebody tells me how to use the accelerometers, I will have a go. Is
  | it just like /dev/joydev ?

  You just open /dev/input/event2 (top accel) and/or 3 (bottom).  Have a
  look in cross path/usr/include/linux/input.h -- basically these guys
  turn up in there 300 a second:

  struct input_event {
 struct timeval time;
 __u16 type; type = 2
 __u16 code; code = 0=X, 1=Y, 2=Z
 __s32 value;    signed mG force in 18mG steps
  };

  - -Andy
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
  Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
  Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

  iEYEARECAAYFAkgpPNkACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoVuwCfVbgX9PEmkWvsnK8ju7RwzwR5
  ilgAn2tDzszlCky4+Vq7d10iiWqB9A5B
  =GNI5
  -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Marble Maze (was: Re: A few questions about the games)

2008-05-13 Thread ramsesoriginal
Something like neverball or neverput would be really cool.

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ian douglas writes:
  Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
   http://www.amazon.com/none-CAR190-Labyrinth/dp/B0ISLL
  
  
  Yeah, that's exactly the game I'm thinking of. I imagine implementing
  the physics of it (roll the ball faster the more you tilt) might be a
  bit tricky, but completely possible. We'd also have to allow for skill
  level / gravity level, etc. Could be a lot of fun to build (and play!).

  For the first time I'm wishing I'd waited for Freerunner!

  The physics would be trivial.  The accelerometer outputs could be used
  directly as force on the ball; just have tuneable friction and
  elasticity bouncing off the walls.


  I'll have a look around, see if I can find an existing game -- no sense
  reinventing the wheel when all we're adding to it is accelerometer
  controls instead of buttons etc.




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Re: Programming in Ruby [WAS: Re: Freerunner games / using motionsensors in C]

2008-05-13 Thread ramsesoriginal
Yes, but since we don't have to reinvent the wheel, iasked if someone
alread made it. Also i never wrote ruby for gps/accelerometer,
soarethere somecommon practices/mixins?

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  It's dead simple to make ruby bindings, part of what makes ruby nice in
  the first place.   If you can compile a C program for the moko I bet you
  could easily make some ruby bindings.



  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
  ramsesoriginal
  Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:13 AM
  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
  Subject: Programming in Ruby [WAS: Re: Freerunner games / using
  motionsensors in C]


  Hi there.
  What about programmin in ruby? Are there already some bindings present
  to access accellerometers/gps/bluetooth/etc ?
  If not, are there any plans on making them?

  On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
  
Somebody in the thread at some point said:
  
| If somebody tells me how to use the accelerometers, I will have a
  go. Is
| it just like /dev/joydev ?
  
You just open /dev/input/event2 (top accel) and/or 3 (bottom).  Have
  a
look in cross path/usr/include/linux/input.h -- basically these
  guys
turn up in there 300 a second:
  
struct input_event {
   struct timeval time;
   __u16 type; type = 2
   __u16 code; code = 0=X, 1=Y, 2=Z
   __s32 value;    signed mG force in 18mG steps
};
  
- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
  
iEYEARECAAYFAkgpPNkACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoVuwCfVbgX9PEmkWvsnK8ju7RwzwR5
ilgAn2tDzszlCky4+Vq7d10iiWqB9A5B
=GNI5
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
  
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Gaming on Openmoko?

2008-05-09 Thread ramsesoriginal
I just watched 
http://gizmodo.com/388688/raging-thunder-iphone-racing-game-shows-tons-of-potential,
and asked myself what sorts of games are tested/planned/running on the
freerunner: For example, is planet Penguin Racer Working?

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Re: Gaming on Openmoko?

2008-05-09 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Mo Abrahams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Need an implementation of multi-touch for that to work, else one would
 have to stop running etc. to jump (I was using super mario bros as an
 example there).

8-direction stick could be implemented using accelerometers...

 I like the idea of dosbox... any chance of dungeon keeper? Or is that
 being a bit too optimistic?

 On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 01:05 +0200, David Samblas Martinez wrote:
 There  are some good java games for movile phone out there  than can
 be executed with jlimo. I was able to run some games in the dosbox in
 jlime so I supuse that a lot of oldies pc games can be runned in neo
 too.

 About the key thing, despite we  loose part of the screen, I supose it
 can be relatively easy to implement an alternative keyboard as the
 included one but only with 8 directional keypad (this keypad willbe an
 8 swiched one but can evolve to analogic) and two buttons A B as
 fire ,jump etc...

 Mo Abrahams [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
 We don't have drivers for the 3D hardware, so I am afraid
 games like
 that are a little out of the question... although I think that
 would
 need something more powerful than what we have anyway wouldn't
 it?

 Would be very happy to see somebody get 3D working though =)
 It could be fun to see how app developers would exploit it,
 let alone
 having 3D games... I was about to say someone should port some
 gameboy
 emulator or something, since we do have 2D, but then the
 button thing
 hit me =P

 On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 00:04 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote:
  I just watched
 
 http://gizmodo.com/388688/raging-thunder-iphone-racing-game-shows-tons-of-potential,
  and asked myself what sorts of games are
 tested/planned/running on the
  freerunner: For example, is planet Penguin Racer Working?
 


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Re: Multi-Level Markting - Is OpenMoko interested in?

2008-05-05 Thread ramsesoriginal
I dont remembre if I already mentioned it or only planned to mention
it, but i would recommend giving http://zooppa.com/ a look when it
comes to advertising.
I think the Openmoko would be a great product for this kind of
advertisement. Basically its user generatet advertisement. In a really
funny way.

Just my 2 €-cents.

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Stefan Misch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello Roland,

  while I think that the OpenMoko should get more attention in the media I
 don't think it's a good idea to use all methods you mentioned.

  An affiliate program (e.g. via zanox) would be a great idea but forced
 clicks and paid mails are dubious advertising methods at best. IMHO the
 Freerunner should get a more *honest* (in lack of a better word) advertising
 than that.

  Also I think that as long as the software is not end-user friendly it's
 better to stick to word-of-mouth advertising plus technology geared media.

  Take care,
  Stefan

  Roland Häder wrote:

 
 
 
  Hi together,
 
  as the subject said I'm asking here if OpenMoko is interested in multi
 level marketing? You can read about the basics on Wikipedia if you don't
 know it. :)
 
  My friend and I have a (German) Internet marketing platform with about
 800+ registrations. We have a lot different ways of marketing there. Here
 are only some examples:
 
  - Mails directly delivered to our members
  - Click mails where they have to login to get their reward
  - Banners (forced-click banner and rotation banners)
  - Textlinks
  - An AdSense-like system (in planing phase)
  - 1 Euro for a 88x31 or textlink for one year
  - Bonus campaigns (a bit like button or textlink promotion)
  - Sign up actions
 
  If you like I can send you the link directly not here in mailing list.
 
  And have you heard about Zanox?
 
  Best regards,
  Roland Haeder
 
  PS: I have CC-ed Trisoft and my friend. :)
 
 
 
  
 
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Re: youtube freerunner vid is up

2008-04-30 Thread ramsesoriginal
I see a splendid career at techcrunch/engaged/gizmodo for you kids, Steve :D

and for the screen, in the related videos there is a video from
trolltech where they show of a freerunner and you see the screen.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I was very sure there would be blood. :D but
  I think we could try Pace and phone as slogan
  for the Freerunner.

  Cheers!

  Kosa

  - Un mundo mejor es posible -

  steve escribió:

 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U05kZfURPig
 
  hope you enjoy it
 
 
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Re: mobile gps gaming

2008-04-30 Thread ramsesoriginal
Urban Tag

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We'd need a compass for a working 3D world window. Else the phone
  can't be certain (though it could estimate) where it is facing.

  I am very interested in GPS games. A PacMan-like game that
  automatically generates a level based on the surrounding Open
  Streetmap data would be awesome. :) A Snake game would also be great.
  Lots of possibilities probably.

  Ortwin



  On 4/30/08, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Yea, I'm excited too.  I was thinking it would be possible to use the
   accelerometer + GPS to make the phone act like a window into the game
   world.  Where you can look around in 3d.
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
   Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:53 PM
   To: List for Openmoko community discussion
   Subject: Re: mobile gps gaming
  
  
   Robin Paulson wrote:
i just listened to an interesting piece on the bbc about gps gaming on
mobile phones:
  
  
   There was a group of people in some major American city a year or so ago
  
   that played a city-wide game of PacMan using GPS-enabled phones...
   teammates would lead the 'ghost' characters to where the PacMan
   character was, and so on. Got a fair bit of press.
  
   I'm excited at what the Freerunner will be capable of in this regard, as
  
   it would be FAR easier to write/play GPS games with an open phone.
  
   -id
  
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Re: youtube freerunner vid is up

2008-04-30 Thread ramsesoriginal
sure, i meant this one :D

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jens Fursund wrote:

 
and for the screen, in the related videos there is a video from
trolltech where they show of a freerunner and you see the screen.
  
 
  Where did you find it, could you post a link?
 

  Maybe he meant this:
  http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=k9QLdK6pFCIfmt=18 ?

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Re: Community Update???

2008-04-29 Thread ramsesoriginal
Whi not have an official openmoko twitter stream?

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Andreas Hennig wrote:

  since the last official community update was a few week ago
 

  Months? :o :|

  Anyway I do prefer they're working on shipping the Frerunners to us, than
 on writing here...
  BTW I'd like to read some twitter-form status-mails from them :)

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Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)

2008-04-29 Thread ramsesoriginal
Ok, my experience in the marketing field is very specific, and my
experience as an engineer is practically non-existant (i'm still
studying), so i wil lsimply step back and listen to you guys on this
discussion. I just wanted to point out a really cool
idea/product/service (call it like you want):
http://zooppa.com/
I'ts a really cool idea of making advertisement social.. in some sort
of way. I really like this idea and would liek to point it to you guys
:D

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Matt..

 I think I get a sense of where you are coming from.  As an engineer, one
 thinks oh no, here comes these marketing people with their unrealistic
 requirements again.  Been there.  Even been on the giving end. :(  On the
 flip side, as a marketer one sometimes thinks, Man, will these guys ever
 get a clue, no one wants that feature set.  In a *perfect* world, engineers
 and marketers would be equal partners.. I don't think I've actually seen
 this work perfectly yet but I know the relationship I built with the
 engineering at Unisys was hard earned and it was built on trust (both ways.)
 It was a pretty good relationship and took me a few years to build. You have
 to treat the other side as part of the team, not the enemy as we have
 instincts to do.  I've done it, I know.

 Here's how I see the roles working in an open environment...

 The marketing team creates a list of features that the product needs to
 have.  There is a lot that goes into this I want to keep it simple for now.
 They sit down with the engineering team and create a list of agreed upon
 features (even suggested features engineering brings to the table) that go
 into the next product, prioritized of course.  That list of features is
 created based on priority and feasibility of hitting the target completion
 date (agreed upon by everyone.. sort of.)  Engineering then makes the magic
 happen... when a feature or requirement turns out it can't be met (through
 bug or other technical issue) both teams work out either a revised feature
 list or target date.  Depends on how important that feature is.  I've been
 in situations where I was told 5 days before the target date oh by the way,
 we dumped that must have feature x.

 While the engineering team is building the marketing team is working out the
 future of the next product and creating the collateral and campaign for the
 product in development.  All publicly of course, with the aid of anyone
 (including the techie folks) that wants to help.  I have a lot of ideas.  I
 was thinking the bug database would be a good place to keep feature
 suggestions/submissions... but I couldn't find a bug database in the wiki.
 I must be blind.  From that point, it's a big cycle.  Once you get it
 going... it's easy to keep on it.  The hard part is building the
 collaborative tools/process to do all this in.

 I think as an after thought, maybe we don't want to split into teams, just
 create a logical process...  Not sure how that would work, though.  People
 have definite skills in one are or the other.  Anyways, that's my hair
 brained idea... I guess I should talk this out with Steve before I go too
 much further down this road.  Thanks for the feedback.  I think I understand
 your perspective now.

 Lowell

 PS - regarding Open Marketing, I'm a fan.  I've been attempting to load the
 framework on my Motorola E680i but not had too much success.  Damn QVGA.
 The people in my LUG know I am very interested in this project so I get
 questions once a week via IRC on Openmoko.  Far from an expert but they seem
 to like my answer.  I know if I had one to show off at a meeting, it would
 be a hit.



 On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 
  I understand what you're saying about engineers tossing a product over the
 wall being a throw back.  *Of course* there's back and forth and both
 marketing and rnd contributing to each other..
 
  But I think it is typical for engineers to yearn for a larger role in
 marketing decisions and, less so, marketing to overstate their role in
 product engineering.   Both groups have strong investments in the product
 dev process in different ways.   I think engineering tends to be more of a
 group development effort, where marketing relies more on the strength of
 individuals, all with very good reasons.
 
 
  If the concerns are too overlapped, or if there is no seperation and
 specialization, I don't think that works well generally.  I think there's
 very high value wrt role seperation and specialization.   I don't think it
 was suggested that there was some kind of wall in the middle, that's
 ridiculous.  But the best products come from a respect for the others roles
 and intense focus on what people are good at.
 
  Matt
 
 
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lowell Higley
  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:11 PM
 
 
 
  To: List 

Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)

2008-04-28 Thread ramsesoriginal
I think this would be great..
Ideally it would not decode it completely, but simply encode the video
with some simpler compression...

Another question: if we skip sound, would the decoding be faster? By how much?

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Flyin_bbb8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 just thinking out loud here, for example maybe you have some short videos
 you want to show to some other people, so u can open an app that checks the
 amount of memory you have, then checks the amount it needs to do
 decoding. if it has enough it does the decoding (not at full speed) 'n
 lets u know when it's complete, then u can watch it 'n decide if u wanna
 watch it again or delete the decoded part from memory again... not sure if
 this is possible, not an expert here...



 On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:47 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
  On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:09:51 +0200 ramsesoriginal
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  babbled:
 
 
 
   I'm not an expert, so maybe this question is silly, but it just popped
   to my mind: using mencod, couldn't you decode the video, store it in
   decoded form and then you have onyl to copy it? If this would be
   possible, you cold make some sort of video-transfere-applciation where
   you can set the desidred speed/size/ratio..
  
   again, i have no idea if it's possible, just 2 thoughts from my side..
 
  yes. that's possible. of course your 100mb movie file becomes about 1-2gb
  now :) maybe more...
 
  in theory u should manage [EMAIL PROTECTED] (24fps is movie framerate in the
  cinemas). as u have almost no decode (though you have to read it from some
 IO
  souce). so u need an IO source that can stream 7mb/sec to you (good luck
  finding that!) but *IF* u did... a 2 hour movie would be about 46gb of
 data...
  good luck finding that storage too! :)
 
  in other words... not practical to have it unencoded to avoid decoding.
 
  i used a 2hr movie just as an example so you know just how much video
  compression gets you... it saves an AMAZING amount of space. the numbers
 for
  pure video source (that is zero quality loss original RGB data) is double
 that
  for [EMAIL PROTECTED] (92gb)...
 
  in the end beyond a hey my phone is so cool i play high-res video demos
 of 30
  second clips (that woul still be enormous and u wouldnt be able to store
 more
  than 1 or 2 anyway - but as a demo to show off its enough), it is just not
  useful or practical.
 
  yes - we can go for simpler compression schmes that still require decode,
 but
  just less effort and eerything just adjusts. we spend less decode time,
 but
  require more IO bandwidth and vice-versa. once decoded u have a tradeoff
 of
  resolution vs frames per second as the pipe u have to send it down is
 fixed in
  size. you choose your favorite tradeoff, but somewhere there you will need
 to
  make one.
 
  --
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Italy User Group

2008-04-27 Thread ramsesoriginal
I am organizing one in South Tyrol. I want just to check all the
person who said they want one (more then twenty), and then look how
many more we need to come to a complete set of k*10 Neos. Probably
i'll also buy something like 7 or 8 neos for my own to write custome
software to then resell to specific companies. As soon as I know the
exact number, i'll put it in the wiki :D

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Pedro Aguilar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

  Sorry, I missed that page...

  Has anyone started organizing a 10 pack order? May be one in Milan and
  another one in Veneto?

  Even if it's only in Milan I would still be interested :)

  Bye,
  --
  Pedro Aguilar



  On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 00:53 +0200, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano wrote:
   Pedro Aguilar ha scritto:
Hi,
   
I've seen several large local groups in Europe, but not in Italy.
I would like to see a large Italian local group and create a 10 pack
Sales Group for the Freerunner.
   
Anyone joining the Italian Group?
We'd just need 9 more :)
   
Regards,
  
   ?? hey look at the wiki :D we are more than 2, we can actually place 2
   10pack order, one in milan, and the other one somwhereelse, or both in
   milan (there should be someone who can phisically do this) but, welcome,
   just leave your name in the wiki, i think that a good moment to organize
   the things is when someone will say Hey, the freerunner is in
   production stage.
  
   Cya!
  
   Pietro
  
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Re: Video Playback virtually impossible on Neo Freerunner? (Re: Video of Qt 4.4 on Neo1973: brings iPhone like graphics)

2008-04-27 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:42 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:48:53 + Federico Lorenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  babbled:


   Well, after doing a few tests, (mainly thanks to ahven and SpeedEvil
   on IRC), the Neo can handle a 160x128 H264 (with CABAC) encoded video
   at 40kbps with a 12kbps audio track. The fun comes in with the
   scaling. Scaling to 320x240 with no frame dropping is possible if I
   encode the video as baseline H264. However, I think the Freerunner,
   especially with a beefier processor and hardware scaling, should
   perform quite a bit better. The scaling seems to give quite a big
   performance hit.

  on the freerunner scaling is free (no pun intended) so to speak. that means
  *IF* you use xvideo - the hardware handles yuv-rgb conversion as well as
  scaling. there is a hard limit on the amount of data you can transfer to the
  video card per second (about 7.3 m/sec) and as such will limit resolution and
  framerate of the source video (as resolution goes up, framerate goes down -
  like all things, a trade-off). remember that all time spent copying data to
  video memory is time that can't be spent decoding the actual video data if 
 you
  copy 7.3m of video to the glamo then you use up 1 second for the copy where 
 you
  have no time to do any decoding as copying is not done via dma, and even if 
 we
  did do it with dma (which we tried! we really did!), would lock up the memory
  bus during this transfer anyway and dma actually proved much slower than 
 using
  the cpu to do the copy - even for large chunks of data. less than half the
  speed.

  so it's all a tradeoff.



   Cheers,
   Federico
  
   PS) I do not own a Neo, and I'm not an expert on anything
  
   On 4/27/08, Kristian 'kriss' Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Christoph
   
Am Donnerstag, den 24.04.2008, 11:19 +0200 schrieb Christoph Witzany:
 As I understood Video playback will be virtually impossible on the
 freerunner, at least from the sd card (which is the only sensible
 location to store videos on the neo ftm).
   
I did some testing on that with GTA01.
   
   
 Please correct me if I misunderstood.
   
Even with GTA01 it was possible - though the tests I made there are not
valid for GTA02 (don't have one yet).
   
What I found out with mplayer is:
   
1) H.264 will take to much time to decompress (even at low bitrates)
2) SDL will be the fastest way to output without HW acceleration
3) using H.263 (as Youtube does) I could get the best
   compression/bitrate/speed ratio
4) using 320x240 and scale to 640x480 (480x640) is doable
   
Some of those findings are documented at the buttom of
http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Video_Player
   
   
 If I interpreted Carsten right 640x480 video will
 display at 5-10 fps at best, right?
   
Actually with GTA01 I've had 13 fps in fullscreen mode (320x240 -
480x640) which looked really okay and was viewable.
   
A 640x480 H.263 though with reasonable bitrate took to much cpu-power to
decode.
   
Anyway, with GTA02 you should take a try - it seems doable in SW even
without 2D acceleration, as it just has more cpu power. - try to start
with:
   
mencoder -quiet -ofps 13 -vf scale -zoom -xy 352 -af channels=1:0:0:1:0
\
-oac lavc -ovc lavc -lavcopts \
acodec=mp3:vcodec=h263p:autoaspect=1:vbitrate=200:abitrate=32 \
-o outfile infile
   
mplayer -autosync 30 -vf scale -zoom -xy 640 -vf rotate=1 -sws 0
-nodouble \
-vo sdl -fs -framedrop tagetfile
   
   
Greetings from Berlin
   
Kristian
   
   
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I'm not an expert, so maybe this question is silly, but it just popped
to my mind: using mencod, couldn't you decode the video, store it in
decoded form and then you have onyl to copy it? If this would be
possible, you cold make some sort of video-transfere-applciation where
you can set the desidred speed/size/ratio..

again, i have no idea if it's possible, just 2 thoughts from my side..


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Re: Newbee wants to kick start - second try

2008-04-25 Thread ramsesoriginal
If it's like that, then a simple amplitude-modulation over a
pre-recorded, fixed, carrier of the encrypted data should be no
problem, since amplitudes are sent...

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 4/24/08, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Adilson Oliveira

- - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on
 Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I
 forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be
 secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct?
  
   As far as I understood it, a GSoC-Project is a sms middleware, which
   should (theoretically) implement a way to simply encrypt with gpg the
   sms. Phone calls can't be encrypted that easilly because, as far as i
   understood it, the microphone is connected directly to the gsm chip.
   But we have many intelligent people here, so someone will probably
   find a way to do even that.

  The microphone is connected to the sound card:)

  The reason that encrypted calls over GSM is so difficult, is that the GSM
  chip samples and encode the input from the microphone. This coding
  is optimized for speach only and does not actually send your speach
  over the network, but it breakes the sound up in small parts and
  use a lookup table to find something that is more or less similar.
  It then sends the table index over the network. The actual sound is never
  sent, not even in digital form. This is at least how I remember it

  --
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Re: Newbee wants to kick start - second try

2008-04-24 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Adilson Oliveira
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1

  Hello.

  Sorry for being pushy but I've seem even blank emails being answered, I
  wonder why mine wasn't the first time so I decided to try again :)

That happens sometimes

  I've been fascinated for this project for some time and now, with the
  proximity of the Freerunner release, I want to start to be a bit more
  active.
  I also have been following this list for a few days and I would like to
  have some clarifications.
  - - Looks like there's some movement towards pre-sales of the freerunner.
  Is there something set for Latin America (I'm in Brazil)? I didn't see
  any in the wiki page so I suppose there's none yet, right? Can I start
  one or is there any pre-requisites?

There aren't any pre-sales as far as I know, just you can buy a
Freeerunner even before the software is completely finished, directly
from OpenMoko. You are probably referring to group sales, because a
pack of 10 freerunners costs less and the taxes and trasport are also
cheaper for a group sale. You can start a buyer group if there's none.

  - - Next month I'll in in Europe and I could use this time to grab mine.
  Is the release time of the freerunner already set?

Probably buying it in Europe isn't always the best choice, because of
taxes. And, sadly, there's no release date yet, but some ime ago there
was talk about april, and since we are in the testing phase, the
release date should be near.

  - - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on
  Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I
  forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be
  secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct?

As far as I understood it, a GSoC-Project is a sms middleware, which
should (theoretically) implement a way to simply encrypt with gpg the
sms. Phone calls can't be encrypted that easilly because, as far as i
understood it, the microphone is connected directly to the gsm chip.
But we have many intelligent people here, so someone will probably
find a way to do even that.


  Thanks and []s

  Adilson.
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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  Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

  iD8DBQFIEIF/2cB5Bt7H7YARAud+AKCU9lMbjg857XttODOc+1V7GozvbgCfVxz5
  5J0ahZkXOLyob7Gzs0ySGS4=
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Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-24 Thread ramsesoriginal
Wow, great, fantastic!
Openmoko, we 3 u!
Thats a great Idea!

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:44 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to
  execute a group sales.

  Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets.

  So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then
  the 10 pack will include these extras.

  Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together around
  this idea of group sales that it just made sense.



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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sun April 20 2008 8:29:01 pm Nick Guenther wrote:
   On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun April 20 2008 7:27:06 pm Kevin Dean wrote:
  I'm happy paying $399 for all ye who feel the need to pay $400 to make
  it even. :P Though, I'll hop on the even bandwagon if it's dropped as
  long as Openmoko makes profit. :)
 
  If you really want to pay more, you could set up a Tip a Developer
  program...
 
  -Kevin
 
  On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Selinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200
  
Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99,
 respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly
 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price
 by one dollar, AKA
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often
 associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price
 look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a
 hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the
 debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness
 and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out
 there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message:
 We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like
 others do.
  
nice thought
/sign
  
  
  
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 This tip a programmer idea is very interesting.  What does the
community think about setting up a site where people can say We'll each
donate x amount once y feature is integrated or something of the sort.
This way, Openmoko can see what features are most important to the
community and the community would be able to donate to OM to help develop
and research future products.
  
   No, don't do this! For one, the overhead of managing that is and
   making sure all the details are fair to everyone is too much for what
   it'll pull in. For two, it'll mean that features get implemented, but
   not implemented well, and the coverage of features will be to the
   preferences of whoever (linux-land hacker, remember) pays the most,
   instead of what this phone needs to succeed commercially.
   Seriously, stay on track guys.
   -nick
  
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  I wasn't suggesting we donate x amount to whatever developer achieves this.
  I'm suggesting a system where once some hardware or software feature is
  achieved, x users can contribute y dollar/euros to Openmoko to help fund
  future hardware/software development and research.  The donations would go as
  a generic donation to Openmoko, not to a specific developer for writing
  certain software.

  --
  

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Ok, so first, i also would like to see 400$ instead of 399$, because
it's simply a matter of being honest.

Then the bounty for code: i would rather see bountyes for bugfixes:
everyoen likes to implement new features, but nobody lieks maintaining
code. Another way of Bounty for developers that I really would like
is that the developers put there hoem adress somewhere in the wiki,
and then the user who like the feature can send him a postcard/thank
you card. A bit like Linus Torvalds originally made for Linux. That's
something that really would push me, as a developer, to do more. Maybe
it would help even more then a sporadic 5$ on my paypal account.

And for the openmoko subscription/club/frequent buyers: This coul be a
really great idea. A yearly membership fee, but for three
recommendations you get it for free (so if I recommend the phone to
three people i get the membership for free), and members get access to
a membership card, a pouch and a special homepage, where they can
browse all openmoko community created products and maybe get a 10%
discount or something like 

Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just
 a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:

  http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/


Thank you. Wow. Finally, something real, after all this talking
about the freerunners. all that misses now is one of those babys in my
hands :D

  If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn
 this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
 assistance.

Well, the fotos are pretty noisy, what makes creating a good site a
pretty hard task. But I like the fotos, good job!

 I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
 samples, and shipping all of these items.

Keep on going!

 You don't need my permission -
 download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
 create what you want.

  Michael

Ok, thanks!

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Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
upon two simple questions:
1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People, ...)
2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
or for branding, and so on.

Has anyone got some input?

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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
I recalled there was already some discussion about this, and after
reading through something like 300 mails ( xD ) i found this thread:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007112.html

So, free your phone could be dangerous.

The fact that the motto should signify openness is (in my opinion) a
shure think.. the question is how :D

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Rune Gangstø [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Open source is more (or just Open is more) , was the first thing I
 thougth about when I read this e-mail.
 I think that a motto for openmoko should contain something about the
 openness.



 2008/4/21, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 
 
  Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
  upon two simple questions:
  1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
  2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
  even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
  or for branding, and so on.
 
  Has anyone got some input?
 
 
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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Free your phone, and the mind will follow


Aaargh... we'll all turn insane !!!
No, seriously, not a bad idea..

  Or Hello Moko just for fun, to see how long motorolla's legal
  department takes to send a cease and desist letter.


We coudl place bet's :D


On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Philippe Guillebert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ramsesoriginal wrote:

  Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
  upon two simple questions:
  1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
  2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
  even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
  or for branding, and so on.
 
  Has anyone got some input?
 
 
 

  Hello,

  The answer is here :
 http://people.openmoko.org/sean/files/openmoko_trademark.pdf


Huh.. cool! This answers soem of my questions!

  Open. Mobile. Free or Free your Phone are part of official branding,
 there is also typographic and graphic rules for a good communication.

That's great! as far as I understood it, the motto of Openmoko in
general is Open. Mobile. Free (great motto) and Free your Phone is
the motto for the Neo


  Logos file and other stuff can be found here :
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy#Trademark_Policy

Great ressource..


  I've seen icon sets on the wiki somewhere, nothing about sound though.

  Hope this helps


Shure thing, thanks!

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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Georg Michelitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ramsesoriginal wrote on 04/21/2008 10:53 PM:


  Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
  upon two simple questions:
  1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
  2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
  even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
  or for branding, and so on.
 
  Has anyone got some input?
 
 
 

  Concerning the soundset (if I understood right you meant something like a
 standard sound for the phone-startup as a lot of other companies pratice) I
 think a human voice saying Openmoko - Open mobile communication would be a
 nice alternation to Free your phone or open. mobile. free .. Even if I
 like the last two better as a motto I think that the first one suits better
 for some kind of system sound..

  cu, Georg



And if we use/create some sort of instrumental only track, clearly
published under Creative Commons, to use for the phone (startup,
shutdown, advertisment, ..)


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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
Wow. .cool.. i not only (finally) discovered what mojo means, but i
also liek the idea :D

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 How about got my moko working.  Then you could have a red flannel bag for
 your 'moko hand'.  Moko is HD (hoodoo) enabled!

  http://www.luckymojo.com/mojo.html




  ramsesoriginal wrote:

  Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
  upon two simple questions:
  1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
  2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
  even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
  or for branding, and so on.
 
  Has anyone got some input?
 
 
 



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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:16 AM, Georg Michelitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ramsesoriginal wrote on 04/21/2008 11:48 PM:


 
 
Concerning the soundset (if I understood right you meant something like
 a
   standard sound for the phone-startup as a lot of other companies
 pratice) I
   think a human voice saying Openmoko - Open mobile communication would
 be a
   nice alternation to Free your phone or open. mobile. free .. Even if
 I
   like the last two better as a motto I think that the first one suits
 better
   for some kind of system sound..
  
cu, Georg
  
  
  
  
 
  And if we use/create some sort of instrumental only track, clearly
  published under Creative Commons, to use for the phone (startup,
  shutdown, advertisment, ..)
 
 
 
 

  Of course :) I'm just kind of a lazy musician, has been some time that I've
 not touched my instruments ;)


Sadly, this holds true also for me: good thing today we have the
possibility to do postprocessing :D
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Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework

2008-04-20 Thread ramsesoriginal
I this mail is great. I totally agree!
Sure, as Marco said, if no phone is still produced, and the change is
minimal, then it would be better to start proucing right away with he
improved versions.But I think most people can live with a brighter
led, even if that means some battery life less.

On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 pe, 2008-04-18 kello 21:57 -0400, Kevin Dean kirjoitti:

  I have to say, I'm baffled by that sentiment. GTA02v5 is fully
   functional, the only problem is that it's not as efficient as it
   could be, just like every other product on the planet.

  Hear hear. For fuck's sake, people. Boohoo, there's gonna be a better
  version down the line. Where the hell have you lived your tech lives?
  This is how it _always_ is, and blowing any piece of admitted
  suboptimality so out of proportion Escher would be proud is _not_ the
  way to encourage an open development process.

  Don't like a couple of LEDs being slightly brighter than strictly
  necessary? Okay, there's the Perfect v6 coming up. Oh wait, it still
  doesn't have wake-on-bluetooth (I'm almost sorry for mentioning this bit
  of old news since it may stir up yet another storm in a teacup - again).
  And it won't, too much reworking would be involved. So you'd better just
  skip the FreeRunner altogether, you know, to get the perfect phone.

  Don't think that's comparable to the lack of a minor power saving hw
  feature? Well, there's this new Atheros AR6002 wifi chip that's more
  power efficient than Neo's AR6001, so clearly, since we _already know_,
  as many are stressing over the fucking LED thing, that the FreeRunner is
  using a suboptimal solution, they should just scrap that piece of shit
  and rebuild using this more power-efficient chip.

  Of course, this all will mean that they'll never get any actual products
  out, since there's always room for improvement especially in our
  fast-paced tech world, but hey, it's all to satisfy the people who want
  their phones Just Perfect.

  And the point was? Yeah, the point. There was one here somewhere, let me
  look for it. Oh yeah. Here it is:

 Nothing. Will. Ever. Be. Perfect.

  Get over it. Not to say you shouldn't wait for v6 if it would grind your
  soul inside every time to see the led blink on a v5. Please do. Just
  leave the rest of us in peace. Oh, and hope that the OM guys won't ever
  think of a cheap way to make FR again slightly better and start
  producing a v7. Why, that would mean that your phone would instantly
  become useless crap, wouldn't it. Wouldn't it?

  --
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Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?

2008-04-20 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Stefano Cavallari
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 (sorry for the length of this message)
  I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one
  noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which
  happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no longer
  existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore.
  So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the
  Internet, then do whatever you want from there.
  Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is in
  doing VoIP and IM.
  Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be
  mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the
  interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream
  communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and just
  provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi,
  bluetooth).
  Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO
  card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones).
  I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already USB
  UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to
  take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a bluetooth-serial
  chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses).
  This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the ear
  (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing).
  You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on.
  Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep
  this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need
  GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't
  have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if
  a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you still
  have the main product (the handheld) selling well.

  Just my (long) 2 ¢
  --



I have always been a big fan of the maximum modularity and
abstraction, and I totally agree on this part of your idea. I also
agree that the telephone system is a dying system, but since all of
your friends/family use it, and since we stil have no real mobile
alternative, i think its a bit to early for throwing away the whole
gsm parts. And that's why I like modularity: like you said, every one
can choose wether to have gsm, wifi, wimax, umts, or a some sort of
star trek transponder.
But since this would be a complete redesign of the system, and a
reinvention of the concept of mobile handheld. The idea is really
innovative, but difficult. Sure nothing to produce after the gta3, but
maybe to start developing.Ideally the modularity could be extendend to
some sort of wireless, maybe bluetooth.

btw, we already discussed a modular design some time ago... but I
don't remember how we decided.

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Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?

2008-04-20 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 2:51 PM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sunday 20 April 2008 14:23:26 Stefano Cavallari wrote:
  
   You can potentially use less bandwidth if you choose more intelligent
   codecs. And yes I'm for paying actual bandwidth for mobile Internet.
   The Internet doesn't mean necessarily broadband and flat prices.
   And remember that IM is way more efficient (both from the human and the hw
   point of view) and cheap than VoIP, so many people would just switch to IM.
   It's because of absurd SMS costs and size limits that few uses them.
  

  my impression is that sms is used far more then phone calls here in norway 
 for
  quick and simple communications.

As far as I can see it, sms is way more used then calling in the
private field, but calling is more used in the buisness field.

  im systems have the problem that they are just that, systems. sure, one could
  use jabber as a glue, but most of my contacts are on msn, not jabber. and in
  other parts of the world its aol and yahoo messenger that counts.

XMPP (ex Jabber) [1] gives the possibity through so-called gateways
to talk to other services. I for example talk through jabber to my
friends in icq, in msn and in yahoo talk. But, like the article says,
xmpp has even the possibility to combine im and sms. Having such a
system on a phone shure makes sms obsolete.

  same deal with voip systems. the most popular is skype, but thats a closed
  system. as in, the only client that can access it is the official, closed
  source client.

That's really true. And sad. But a system like the one used by XMPP,
just in the voip field (I think even XMPP is going that way), would
really make the pstn obsolete. And even more: voip has often the
possibility to make calls to pstn and recive calls from it: so if a
phone is equipped with a gien voip system fine, else you simply call
the pstn network through the voip system.

  so when going from current systems to voip and im (and current voip clients
  can often double as voip clients, or the other way round) your just pushing
  the abstraction back a step.

  oh, and isnt the 4G LTE system thats supposed to take over for UMTS at some
  point in the future planned as a IP based system? as in, any voice calls
  performed will be done via voip anyways. its just that the handsets and the
  network operators have agreed on a common standard.

I don't know about this, but it sounds intresting..

  question is, will said voip standard be implementable in open source ways. or
  are the controls required by the telcos so stringent (for fear of someone
  finding a way to shut the system down) that only big corps can do it in a
  black box fashion?

That's often the question, and if companies like OpenMoko become
known, the possibility of having an Open Source implementation also
grow.


I also would say that I don't know about Stefano, but i thought of
this as a modular system when I read this mail: If you feel the need
for gsm you put in the gsm module, if you think oyu need 4g you put in
that chip, and if you think you need something else, then simply use
something else. Doing this way you, for know, you simply creatre the
gsm module. Then you create some 4g module, and people can buy it,
upgrade their phone, put it in a new barebone system, or whatever
they want. Having a modular approach gives true freedome, in my
opinion


[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP
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Re: oredring the Freerunner as an research item

2008-04-15 Thread ramsesoriginal
As far as I know, this holds true for many countries. I used to work
in a logistic/marketing/other stuff buisness, and in many places
labeling transportations as research item was a good idea (but it
has to be, in some way, related to research, because it gets
controlled)

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,


  On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:53 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
   i'll look into it, but this country by country selective processing is
   defeating the purpose.

  If this is valid for other countries, perhaps such a letter / note
  could be added to every 10 pack you send out?
  (If the same letter / note can be used for all cases, of course)
  Granted, I don't know how much overhead in packaging this would incur.
  --
  Regards,
  Torfinn Ingolfsen
  Norway



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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  what you guys actually want to see me dance?

Oh hm... YES! xD

and also some of my female (and even male) friends asked about
coloring: the preferred ones:
-red
-pink (yes, really)
-blue
-kiwi-green

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Re: Buying the lunchbox

2008-04-14 Thread ramsesoriginal
Thanks Steve. That's the right way!

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Marc Verwerft
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That's a philsophy and business approach that makes sense for you and for me!

  Thanks Steve


  On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:21 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
Another way to look at it. Openmoko is going to focus on the areas where 
 we
add VALUE. Buying the lunchbox from
Company A, and reselling it to you, is of marginal value.
  
Plus one lunchbox doesn't fit ALL. If you want or need a secure carrying
case, then go to the guys
Who are expert in that and you will end up with a better deal all around.
The exact case you need.
A cheaper price, and openmoko can focus on open source hardware and
software.
  
Steve
  
  



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Re: PVT Update.

2008-04-14 Thread ramsesoriginal
That's really great news!
And by the way, Steve, thank you for the constant updates (and the
whole bunch of updates of today), it feels great beeing informed!

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Christ van Willegen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Steve, all,


  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:01 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests.
  :

   So, short version: design is verified. Hardware is production worthy. Yeild
results are good.

  Thanks for the update! I'm really looking forward to swiping my PayPal
  account :-)

  Christ van Willegen
  --
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was
 included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's
 one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly
 to it), I think it should be included.

 [SNIP]

Now that's a good idea. +1 on this one!

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-12 Thread ramsesoriginal
Thats great news!
Just a quick question: will it be possible to buy the lunchbox as an
own product?

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks Steve for the update. I have my money all saved up and ready!

 . . .Shawn


 - Original Message 
 From: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org
 Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:50:40 AM
 Subject: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update



  I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or
 production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT
 run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I
 will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a
 couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB
 chargers before I send these samples out.

 Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing,

 1. Products.

  Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages.
 Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a
 quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been
 $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided
 the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and
 attract more developers.

 2. Pricing
 We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits.
 Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of
 was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating
 that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight).

 Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product.  We
 priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar
 capability.

 My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399.
 USD.

 We did that.

 The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers
 I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later.

 The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD.

 Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying
 more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small
 business, sometimes a small group or club.

 For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will
 charge 369 per phone.


 Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how
 the product will get distributed


 Steve






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Re: Quikwriting

2008-04-12 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
  touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
  http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
  There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
  Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
  Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)

  Ortwin


Sounds interesting. The only problem is user education.. but if it
works this could be a really good input method for finger input!


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Synchronization

2008-04-11 Thread ramsesoriginal
This topic was discussed a while ago, and I didn't heard anything
about it since then (but since I missed a month or two it can already
be clear by now.. I for myself don't know).
I am speaking about the synchronization between the phone and other
devise, could it be PC, a MAC, another phone, or even just Google
calendar. Which way of synchronization has been chose? Which standards?
Are there some branded or at least recommended clients? _What_ can
be synchronized: contacts? calendar? rss feeds? GPS data? files?

Sorry for the unclear questions and the bad English, I hope I made my
question clear..
best regards, Stefan Insam

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Re: Synchronization

2008-04-11 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:25 PM, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, April 11, 2008 3:57 pm, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

   ramsesoriginal writes:
  
   [snip] ... I am speaking about the synchronization between the phone

  and other devise, could it be PC, a MAC, another phone, or even just
   Google calendar. Which way of synchronization has been chose? Which
   standards? Are there some branded or at least recommended
   clients? _What_ can be synchronized: contacts? calendar? rss feeds?
   GPS data? files?
  

  I've synced anything I've wanted to (going to/from a linux box) using
   'rsync -auv'

  I don't think ramsesoriginal was asking about syncing the filesystem
  which you would sync with rsync, but about synchronizing his address
  book (contacts) calendar etc.

Exactly! I personally can use whatever, but a consumer-device needs
the ability to sync in an easy way,


  In general the solution is to use SyncML, which is an open standard for
  synchronization between phones, desktop computers, and internet sync
  servers. It can use a variety of transports including bluetooth and
  TCP/IP, and works by exchanging vCard files, for contacts, and similar
  vCal etc files for calendar events and the like. It should be fairly
  easy to port a sync client or server to Open Moko.

Ok, that sounds good. Is this system also supported by mainstream
applications? I think of the secretary who uses outlook, or maybe
thunderbird..
Anotehr question is if this would also allow to sync other infromation
like geodata/tags, feed list (and the read/unread status of the
feeds), etc.. is there already some standard for that, or would we
have to start from scratch?


  I have done some experimenting with syncing my Nokia phone with my
  Linux desktop. The syncing part went fairly well, the problem was that
  Kontact would not play nice as a sync target, so I was only able to
  sync the contacts DB on my phone with a directory full of vCard files
  on my Linux box, rather than with my groupware client which is what I
  was really trying to achieve. Proper sync support is on the roadmap for
  the next version of Kontact, so everything should work properly fairly
  soon. I am eagerly awaiting the next Ubuntu release in order to give
  that a try.

And here I think of something: many people use web-based applications.
Is there also a plan to sync with those?


  Another exciting possibly is that seeing as the OpenMoko phone is a
  full Linux computer it could be used as a Sync server, making it
  possible to sync with another cellphone without the need for a normal
  computer. If we could have that as a standard feature on the consumer
  version of the Freerunner it would be very cool.

Now this Sounds like a pretty cool and innovative idea. This would
allow also for some neat functions like copying of contacts at code
signing partys, or vCard exchanges at buisness meetings without the
need of some fixed computer.

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Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-10 Thread ramsesoriginal
By applying some sort of modulation (fm? am? psm?) it should be
possible to transfere data over gsm, but on a much lower speed then
through the data channel.

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:22:10AM -0400, Dan Staley wrote:
   Does anyone know if it is legal (in the standard TOS) with providers
   (such as ATnT) to send data over a normal phone call?

  this is not possible, since regular voice calls for GSM are not
  bit-transparent, i.e. the voice signal is coded and potentially re-coded
  (transcoded) a number of time between the calling and receiving party.

  Data calls over GSM are done using CSD.  They also use quite a lot more
  error correction than voice calls.

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  Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone



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Re: Product Update

2008-04-06 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Tim Kersten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 11:44 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
 As I explained a while back we had a few milestones to hit before 
 beginning
mass production.
The First was DVT. Building phones and verifying the design. That's been
completed and so we have
Moved onto the next stage PVT. Verifying the design for Production. This
stage is always a bit annoying
Because the temptation is to throw the switch and build a billion phones.
There are three PVT builds scheduled
And the first has been completed. The completed handsets will be tested 
 and
then we will tweak the process and build two more PVT  batches. It's the
final push people so everybody keep your good humour.
  
  
  
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  Congratulations!!! I'm glad to see things looking so good :-)

  --
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  Tim



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Congratulations! That's great news, thank you for sharing it with us!

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Re: Loosing your moko

2008-04-04 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Alexey Feldgendler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:35:17 +0200, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:


  When I steal the phone, the first thing that I will do is to turn off the
 phone. Then because I am afraid to be detected by cell I will change the
 internal sim, before to turn on it.
 

  This is also what happens in Russia. The majority of cell phones are stolen
 or robbed of people by junkies. They immediately turn the phone off and
 throw away the SIM card. Without turning the phone on, they bring several
 phones they've collected during the night to a buyer-up who pays them maybe
 a tenth of what the phone is worth, and that's enough for them to get their
 needle.

  The bulk of stolen phones then goes to some phone repair workshops who run
 an underground business of preparing them to be sold. They reflash the phone
 or reset it to a clean state because nobody wants to sell a phone with
 someone's data on it that would be crying out loud I'm a stolen phone.
 They also unlock it if it's locked to an operator, and change the IMEI in
 those models where it's possible. The next stop for a stolen phone is a
 second hand mobile phone shop whose owner allegedly has no idea that the
 phones that strange people bring, a whole box of them at a time, are in fact
 stolen.

  Because rampant mobile phone theft brings them to the second hand market
 where they are priced for less than half of what they're worth, it makes
 them affordable to people who would otherwise not be able to buy a phone. Of
 course, this happens at the expense of those people from whom the phones are
 stolen, and who usually buy themselves a new one. Because of this situation,
 the cell operators in Russia are reluctant to use the IMEI (which is often
 impossible to change) to track down or at least deny service to phones
 reported as stolen -- that would shrink their own market.


  --
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  [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com



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As cool as all the solutions sound, we have to think of some
problems/implications:
1) What happens if the sim gets changed?
2) What happens if the phone gets flashed?
3) What's with my data (stored e-mail passwords, wifi-passwods, web
history, session cookies, e-mails, and so on)?
4) What if I only loose the phone?
5) What if I lend the phone to a friend? Do I have to follow a
two-hour setup procedure to avoid my phone calling the police?

There are many solutions, but each one has it's flaws. The idea that
the phone reports back in some way is pretty cool: at each sim change,
send an sms to a preconfigured number, saying Hi, i'm name, this is
my new number. A good utility for keeping your buddies up to date,
and for having always the newest number. another good idea is to have
configure the phone to play some sort of alarm and encrypt the files
(but still allowing access to the phone, so that the thief keeps on
using it) when it's more then.. 2 meters away from a configured
bluetooth device (your headset/bluetooth keyboard/whatever). An
intresting idea is to trace the gps position each minute, store them,
and send a log per e-mail as soon as a connection is possible (open
wifi, gprs, logged in into wifi, ..). Also a program that sends to all
bluetooth devices it reaches wich accept it something like Help Me!
I'm a stolen phone. I belong to $name, $adress. My actual phone number
is $number, please contact the police. One out of many people maybe
will contact the police. Also the client/server setup is an intresting
idea, allowing one to install its own server, and sending coordinates
and phone number in periodical intervals. Maybe one could even make a
buisness providing this client/server setup.
And if the card is taken out, and the phone flashed? Well.. if the
phone is already shut down, you've lost your phone. The only
possibility would be to have some sort of trackback of the serial
numbers of all flashed devices.. but the security and privacy
implications of this would be too great..

Just my two cents

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Re: Loosing your moko

2008-04-04 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Sean Anderson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It's certainly prudent to realise that this is far from a full-proof
  phone theft prevention system. I realise it's a little redundant to say
  aaw, but no security is airtight anyway!, but it's worth pointing out
  nonetheless.

  Encrypted data, a device that phones home... these are all flawed but
  noticeable barriers for the potential thief. It is also worth noting
  that the data stored on a phone like the Moko (emails, passwords, ssh
  keys) is significantly more valuable than the type of data stored on
  ordinary cellphones at the moment (hey, how r u? 3 x 500, some
  pictures of people being hit by bins) so it is more important that the
  owners of the devices, and the developers, think more seriously about
  how to protect the valuable data that is being stored.

  The Moko has the hardware and the flexibility, so I doubt it would be a
  great deal of trouble to implement a little GPS app that phones home
  when it gets lost.

  My main point: the system may also be useful if the user has simply
  misplaced the phone and would like to find out if they've left it at a
  friend's house or at the pub. GPS is getting accurate enough to
  determine which area of the house it is in. It could eliminate the
  possibility of it being stolen if it turns up in a familiar location.
  How is the Moko user going to tell if they have dropped their phone on
  the train and it is sitting unclaimed at the lost  found depot of the
  train station? GPS, of course :)

  Sean.



  On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 12:43 +0200, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
   On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:35:17 +0200, Michele Renda
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
When I steal the phone, the first thing that I will do is to turn off
the phone. Then because I am afraid to be detected by cell I will change
the internal sim, before to turn on it.
  
   This is also what happens in Russia. The majority of cell phones are
   stolen or robbed of people by junkies. They immediately turn the phone off
   and throw away the SIM card. Without turning the phone on, they bring
   several phones they've collected during the night to a buyer-up who pays
   them maybe a tenth of what the phone is worth, and that's enough for them
   to get their needle.
  
   The bulk of stolen phones then goes to some phone repair workshops who run
   an underground business of preparing them to be sold. They reflash the
   phone or reset it to a clean state because nobody wants to sell a phone
   with someone's data on it that would be crying out loud I'm a stolen
   phone. They also unlock it if it's locked to an operator, and change the
   IMEI in those models where it's possible. The next stop for a stolen phone
   is a second hand mobile phone shop whose owner allegedly has no idea that
   the phones that strange people bring, a whole box of them at a time, are
   in fact stolen.
  
   Because rampant mobile phone theft brings them to the second hand market
   where they are priced for less than half of what they're worth, it makes
   them affordable to people who would otherwise not be able to buy a phone.
   Of course, this happens at the expense of those people from whom the
   phones are stolen, and who usually buy themselves a new one. Because of
   this situation, the cell operators in Russia are reluctant to use the IMEI
   (which is often impossible to change) to track down or at least deny
   service to phones reported as stolen -- that would shrink their own market.


I'm not an expert of the matter, but if it's possible to detect the
distance of some bluetooth-device, then a simple headset (remains
always on your ear) or even a bacon in your wallet is enough to
prevent loosing/getting your phone stolen: if more then 2 meters
distance, make a loud noise. That's it.


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Re: Loosing your moko

2008-04-04 Thread ramsesoriginal
I too am (some sort of) developer. I tried to mess around a bit with
soem simple openmoko programming some months ago (pre-GTA01), but
since then we've gotten a long way. as far as I can understand it,
most of this options ould'nt be difficult, and if the correct bindings
are provided, could even be handled by some lines of python/ruby/...

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello
  I am a programmer, and I possible I will have some of the technical
 capacity to develop something like this.
  I don't have any experience about OpenMoko programming, so, is very
 possible I will not have success.
  But I will try to do, when I will buy my first FreeRunner ( I hope it will
 come out as soon as possible).

  I will try, if I will not have sucess, no one will know! :)



  Sean Anderson wrote:

  I think this thread of discussion is getting a little bit bogged down
  with random ideas (not that I haven't contributed to that, it's fun!)
  but does anyone have any technical insight into how easily these ideas
  could be implemented on the Moko?
 
  You know, if all else fails, it would probably be pretty cool. Most
  GPS-related things are.
 
  Sean.
 
 
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Re: TomTom on Openmoko?

2008-03-27 Thread ramsesoriginal
I am of the idea that a navigation system would be THE killer-app for
the openmoko, and I personally know many persons that would also pay
extra money to have a navigator on a phone. We have various
possibilities: we could try to make some sort of deal with TomTom,
write our own system based on OSM (and btw we could let the openmokos
submit data to osm at the same time to increase accuracy), or (and
that's my favorite) we could try to make something based on google
maps/earth. The whole engime is already there[1], as are also the
maps. Just make some changes to add gps capabilities, and it's great!

2008/3/27 Marcin Juszkiewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Dnia Thursday 27 of March 2008, Christ van Willegen napisał:

  Hi,
  
   On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Sebastian Hammerl
  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 as far as i know on the TomTom go devices is running Linux. So would
it be possible to rip out the TomTom applikation and get it to work
on Openmoko phone? It would be a great GPS application.
  
   Why not use tangoGPS and OpenStreetMap maps?

  Because OSM maps suxx? Lack details, lack streets, lack too many things to
  be usable?

  OSM is nice idea but it is only idea. It will never replace commercial
  maps.


  --
  JID: hrw-jabber.org
  OpenEmbedded developer/consultant

 We're here to give you a computer, not a religion.
 -- Bob Pariseau, at the introduction of the Amiga





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Re: TomTom on Openmoko?

2008-03-27 Thread ramsesoriginal
Ok, this is really cool. I don't even noticed it 'till know :D

2008/3/27 Joseph Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Navigation and OSM data submittal?

  What's wrong with tangogps? Sounds like it already does what you ask for:

  http://www.tangogps.org/

  Joseph





  On 27/03/2008, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I am of the idea that a navigation system would be THE killer-app for
the openmoko, and I personally know many persons that would also pay
extra money to have a navigator on a phone. We have various
possibilities: we could try to make some sort of deal with TomTom,
write our own system based on OSM (and btw we could let the openmokos
submit data to osm at the same time to increase accuracy), or (and
that's my favorite) we could try to make something based on google
maps/earth. The whole engime is already there[1], as are also the
maps. Just make some changes to add gps capabilities, and it's great!
  
2008/3/27 Marcin Juszkiewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
Dnia Thursday 27 of March 2008, Christ van Willegen napisał:

  Hi,
  
   On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Sebastian Hammerl
  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 as far as i know on the TomTom go devices is running Linux. So 
 would
it be possible to rip out the TomTom applikation and get it to work
on Openmoko phone? It would be a great GPS application.
  
   Why not use tangoGPS and OpenStreetMap maps?

  Because OSM maps suxx? Lack details, lack streets, lack too many 
 things to
  be usable?

  OSM is nice idea but it is only idea. It will never replace commercial
  maps.


  --
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  OpenEmbedded developer/consultant

 We're here to give you a computer, not a religion.
 -- Bob Pariseau, at the introduction of the 
 Amiga





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Re: TomTom on Openmoko?

2008-03-27 Thread ramsesoriginal
I can't do anything but quote Marco on this: If you look at the area
where I live (South Tyrol, Italy), there are entire valleys missing. I
am more then willing to upload data to OSM, bnut till the data is
there, i have to navigate somehow..

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Alessandro Iurlano wrote:
Anyway I accept the idea of using commercial apps/maps until there's
nothing of usable for free and freely, since generally such tools become
useful when we're traveling in unknown places, and so that we can't map
on OMS without the help of others!
  
  
   If everyone thinks this way, there will never be an usable OSM.

  What's wrong? I've said that I will help OSM to grow doing my part in
  mapping the areas I know and where I'll go, but if I'll need to travel
  where I've no maps, why couldn't I use a commercial map I've bought
  (running on free software)?

  OSM won't grow if people will definitely use commercial maps, not if
  they use them as a temporary tool!



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Re: Drawing icons...

2008-03-26 Thread ramsesoriginal
perfect, thank you!
are there any special needs (no gradients, no blue, whatever)?

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Gianluca wrote:
   Hello,
   I am sorry to write directly to you, but in this moment I dunno who is the 
 guy
   involved in drawing themes and icons in OM project.
   I am trying to create a new set of icons and themes and publish them
   when they will be ready, but I would to know how to proceed further.
  
   Usually I'm used to use Fireworks, PhotoShop and GIMP when create icons 
 and themes,
   but for this project I need scalable vector graphic images. The only icons 
 and themes
   I can see on this OpenMoko project are *already* built (various size) but 
 unusable to
   change them to my needs.
  
   Where I can find them in a scalable, vector graphic way?
   Or, even better, who is the guy involved for this issue, so I can ask it 
 to him directly?
  
   Best regards,

  Dear Gianluca

  Our icon designer just dropped off a CD this morning. I've posted all
  her files here:

http://downloads.openmoko.org/ui_icons/moko_2007_2_icons.zip

  under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 License.

  Enjoy.

Sean

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Re: Price of the Freerunner published?

2008-03-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Christian Beier ha scritto:

  Am Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:48:10 +0100
   schrieb Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
  
   What we Europeans would need is a FIC subsidiary somewhere here,
  
   As I read FIC has some branch in Czech or Slovakia. Thing is: If you
   ship a container €70 is definitely not the price per device.
   You can help: motivate enough penguin people to buy a new phone and
   maybe some one will risk such order.
  
   If FIC could ship them to Czech (or Slovakia) with their in house
   post it might be easier to get a good price.
  
   Let's hope.
   Christian
  
  This is what i'd like to do with my LUG and some other people near me,
  take the name, make only one order of 10 Neos and then give the phones
  to the people. Obviously the price will not be lowered a lot, but the
  shipping costs are usually divided so in total it will cost less to
  everyone. We always do the same with thinkgeek things or some CDs or DVDs.

  Just my 0.2€cent :D

  Pietro


The same also holds true if (and here comes the crazy part: correct me
if it's illegal) someone want's to buy a bunch of Freerunners (let's
say 10), customize them (with custom themes, programs, settings, maybe
even pre-filled data, some additional hardware, case mods, and much
more), and resell them, either to privates that want given features,
or to firms as a working phone, or for some specific application (for
example skiers, with custom software and theme).
Doing so would also allow to grow a family of hacks around the
openmoko (a version with a webcam? with build-in batteries? with r/c
sender incorporated? with wooden case?).
Just my two €-cents

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Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue

2007-11-06 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Nov 6, 2007 6:39 PM, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Common, take a look outside of your own borders. It's hard to inmagine an 
  Open
  Source phone gaining any traction at all in the US, land of software 
  patents,
  closed standards and telco control. There are quit a few OSS projects doing
  just fine despite being illegal in the US, an Open Source phone will do just
  fine without US support.



  And Nokia is not a US company, nor is Sony-Ericsson, both became major 
  players
  in this market before there even was any form of GSM coverage in the US.
 

 1. did I say it was not possible to exist as a company without the US? No.

 What I said was that a plurality of smart phones are sold in the US.
that's not true. I don't know the exact numbers, but i DO remember
that the US are only at the nineth or tenth place of the
smartphone-buyers-list.

 It is a major market.
 hm.. no. In the us the mobile communication sector ISN'T a major
market at all. Ok, my information is not thaat up to date (2005-2006),
but if we compare: italy and germany togheter have more active mobile
phones then the whole usa. (actrually in italy we have 2.5 phones per
person :D )

And a huge amount of OS work is done in the US.
ok, that's true. But that doesn't mean that less is done outside the usa.

 To design a phone that specifically cant really be sold in the US is
 dumb.
As above, in 2005/2006 only 12% of the announced phones could be used
in the usa. I don't know if ou have ever been in a phone shop in
europe or asia.. compare it to the usa and you'll cry to.

It cuts out a huge potential market. And given the high level of
 competition, loosing 20 - 30% of your market opportunity is
 potentially deadly.

We're not, nor do we have nearly the largest possible sales base.
  
   It is not true to say that we dont *nearly* have the largest base.
   whatever the numbers are, particularly for smart phones, I would be
   shocked to hear the US was anything but one of the top markets. Only
   japan could compete as a potentially larger market in asia. Certainly
   they are not going to be selling tons of these in China.
 
  Yeah, because it's not like there are loads of smart phones being sold in
  Europe...

 loads. Is that a new unit of measure in europe?
If you have no exact data, you have to approximate. The countries with
the highest phone/person ratios are japan, finnland, italy, spain and
germany. I wouldn't say this are third world countries, so you can
assume we are not speaking of old nokia 3310, but probably some really
hig-tech phones.


 It's Asia first, then Europe and the the America's, largely because
  the US had an incompatible system of their own for years. And you may be
  suprised about china too, 1% of the chinese buying a phone is as just as 
  good
  as 4% of the US buying your phone. And it's far easier to gain marketshare 
  in
  China then in the hugely locked-up US market.
 

 Ok, so I guess this whole thing in your mind is really good biz dev
 strategy because they dont need the US.
No one sais they don't need usa. Just if they have to drop usa or rest
of the world.. i would choose usa.

 Lol. They need more strategists like you at FIC.
I think they would need more testers, as we saw..


 Hank

Stefan

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Re: Please welcome Graeme Gregory

2007-10-03 Thread ramsesoriginal
Welcome Greg!
good luck!

On 10/1/07, Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Welcome Greg ;)

 On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 02:06:25 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  Dear Community,
 
  Today I'm extremely excited to announce our latest employee: Graeme
  Gregory. He's going to be our OpenEmbedded and BitBake developer. (We're
  really trying hard to add more depth to our team to support this huge
  effort.)
 
  Graeme's primary task is maintaining the OpenMoko distribution in
  OpenEmbedded, keeping classes and recipes up to date, ensuring that the
  distribution is buildable at all times and managing distribution
 releases.
 
  He'll be around distro-devel@ more than the rest of us. Definitely feel
  free to pick his brain if you need help.
 
  -Sean
 
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Re: dialer suggestion

2007-09-19 Thread ramsesoriginal
Ok, as i already said some times, i think the best would be to have a single
app that would allow a simple templating. It could go from some in-deep
template=app-system, where the numbers are sned through dbus, to a simple
webkit-based(if we already have it, why dont use it?)
javascriptcss-solution. Or something similar to the superkaramba-applets.
Doesn't matter how it would be implemented, but such a skinning engime would
be great!

On 9/17/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think that would be awesome... that's all have to add, though. If
 anybody wants to make a fun cosmetic change to the Dialer, this could be a
 really cool one!

 On 9/17/07, Joshua Layne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  kinda tongue-in-cheek, but...
  so kinetic scrolling works now
  and all the 'dialer' does is capture numbers to send to the GSM chip.
  what about an old-school dialer?  OK, maybe 'retro' is a better name at
  this point.
 
  ROTARY baby!
 
  kitsch.  flare.  nobodyelsehasit.
 
  (maybe there is a reason for that last one)
 
  I dunno - crazy idea, but it could look really cool -  what the H are
  you doing? - I'm dialing my cell phone, jeez
 
  I have no photoshop skillz, so all I can tell you is: find an old rotary
  dial phone - make it look like that. - like a virtual of these:
  http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/06/portable_rotary.html (just
  the dialer)
 
  priority (1 is high): 99 or 999
 
  it's at least as important as TV.
 
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Re: compilation of openmoko platform

2007-08-16 Thread ramsesoriginal
On 8/16/07, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Thursday 16 August 2007, Ashok Kumar wrote:
  Hi
  I am eager to develop some apps for neo. I was trying to compile
  openmoko platform using MokoMakefile. It took almost 12 hours(in P4
  3.2Ghz 512 RAM) in the compilation of alsa-lib. still it did not
  finish. How long will it take to compile in an average system? I just
  read 7 hours somewhere. Did i forget somethings to do? Why is it
  taking so long to compile? Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance

 You don't say anything about your build environment so there's not a lot
 anyone can do to help. Were you using mokomakefile? The VMware image?


He's using mokomakefile (he says it), and i experienced similar issues on my
P4 2.8GHZ 1024 Mbyte Ram, Ubuntu 7.04 and Zenwalk (don't remember wich one).

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Camera.. again.. but this time just as info for future products

2007-07-31 Thread ramsesoriginal
I just read this info about a new small single-chip-camera. Such a thing
would be cool.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/so-tiny/worlds-smallest-single-chip-camera-is-really-small-283823.php

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Re: another GPS idea - speed-sensitive voicemail

2007-07-30 Thread ramsesoriginal

 This suggests that altitude might be something to check as well,
 though as someone else pointed out that's a little late to enable
 flight mode :)


Why do you always think of planes when speaking of altitude? What about
Mountain-climbing?  Paragliding? Deltaplanes? Private Ultralight-Planes?
Blimps?
Altitude would also be cool for skiers: if it's increasing, leave phone
calls in (i'm on the lift). If it's decreasing, block them (i'm skiing and
don't want to be annyoed).

All this features configurable on a per-contact-basis would be cool (don't
let my wife call me when i'm skiing, ..)

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Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much

2007-07-26 Thread ramsesoriginal
On 7/26/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  i imagine this mail2forum provides some sort of [Subforum]-tag
  before each e-mail. To answer to a thread, simply answer the last
  mail of that thread. To start a new topic, just write [Subforum]
  New Topic Name as Subject of the mail. At least i would implement
  it this way. And if it isn't so, we could simply write ourselves
  something like that. I mean: we have plenty of developers in here.

 How do you make sure that the [Subforum] really exists when users
 type a message? How do they remember the list of tags? Does the
 sender get back a notice and has to send it again?


Again, i just assume this things, since I never used it, it's just how i
would implement it.
You should know the subforums, or if you don't, then you could just request
it with a e-mail.
The sender would get a confirmetion if it was posted, which he has to answer
to autenticate itself.

 This not only allow to have mailing list AND forum, but also to let
  everybody choose how they want to interact.

 Well, they can choose anyway even if both systems are not connected.


But if they are connected, you don't loose anything with the decision

My latest conclusions:
 * the democratic approach would be to vote for either of both
 (inducing a lot of political discussions where people try to convince
 each other).

But where vote? Because this should be a solution for end-users,  and we
haven't any at our disposal.

* the (darwinistic) market oriented approach is to simply offer both
 - more or less connected and useage patterns will decide


if they are connected, then there  isn't anything to be decidet.




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Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much

2007-07-26 Thread ramsesoriginal
On 7/26/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Am 26.07.2007 um 08:06 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  
  ...
  So when an official forum is blessed by someone, please make sure
  it is
  a forum that has a *bidirectional* email gateway.  Anything else is
  simply sub-standard for my usage patterns.
  ...
  
  -- Rod Whitby
  -- MokoMakefile author
 
  Mail2Forum sounds like it could help:
  http://mail2forum.com/forums/index.php
 
  Mail2Forum (or M2F) is an add-on software to the phpBB forum system.
  M2F combines the functionality of a mailing list system and a phpBB
  forum in order to add bi-directional 'email to forum' and 'forum to
  email' communication.

 I can hardly imagine how this really works?

 Firstly, please take a look at http://www.oesf.org/forums/ and count
 the subforums there.

 In a forum system you have main forums and subforums, i.e. tons of
 different boards where each one runs one or more threads (topics).
 Ususally you can subscribe to e-mail notifications for each subforum.
 This is the main benefit of a forum over a single e-mail list where
 everything is thrown in (compare between a large hall where everybody
 cries what he wants to say vs. a set of small rooms with special
 topics discussions).

 Now, should all new messages of all subfora be mapped to a single e-
 mail transmission? Or should each subforum have its own mailing list?
 For an unidrectional mode (forum - list) this could work (even if
 new subfora are created).

 But how to respond? How do you want to specify to respond to e.g.
 Developer, Hardware, Smalltalk, First Aid, SellBuy etc.
 through E-Mail? Or even worse: how to create a new thread which
 should just go to a specific subforum. On the single mailing list you
 would simply drop it in between completely unrelated messages.

 My conclusions is that by this requirement Anything else is simply
 sub-standard for my usage patterns.  some of the special usage
 patterns of a forum system have to be given up (i.e. the hierarchical
 grouping of different topics/rooms/subfora or however you will call it).

 For me, a single mailing list carrying all topics of everybody is
 substandard...

 And, another issue is IMHO substandard with mailing lists: it is the
 citation style - everybody has a different way of citing previous e-
 mails. This is a lot of waste of eye-movements to find the relevant
 references. A forum system forces to use a single citation style.

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i imagine this mail2forum provides some sort of [Subforum]-tag before each
e-mail. To answer to a thread, simply answer the last mail of that thread.
To start a new topic, just write [Subforum]New Topic Name as Subject of
the mail. At least i would implement it this way. And if it isn't so, we
could simply write ourselves something like that. I mean: we have plenty of
developers in here.
This not only allow to have mailing list AND forum, but also to let
everybody choose how they want to interact.

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Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)

2007-07-26 Thread ramsesoriginal
Ehrm.. try looking at the settings, maybe you habe simply deactivated it.
Because for me it works pretty fine with the threated view.

oh, yes, and by the way, the possibility to format text and include
images/links/wathever would be really good for the average user.

On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Um...  That doesn't seem to get Gmail to thread the messages at all.
 You're solution is Just don't use Gmail.  Duh!.  That's not a valid answer
 to my question.  Before you suggest it, the following is also an invalid
 response: use Outlook or Thunderbird and download all your messages via
 POP.

 I use Gmail.  Accept it.  Now, if you had a Greasemonkey script that made
 Gmail thread the messages, that would be acceptable.

 Thank you,
 -Steven

 On 7/25/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
   So, my questions:
   1.  Is there a way to get Gmail to thread the messages based on who it
  was
   in response to?
  Yup, admins can set archiving at www.gmane.org. This way you will have
  archiving as well as threaded view
 
  regards
  VK
 


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Re: email vs forum

2007-07-25 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Not trying to prove something -- trying to give benefit of long
experience
 in similar situations.  Email is substantially more efficient, because
it is
 intrinsically more powerful.  For example:

8) Staying in touch directly with the community from my OpenMoko
phone in a year using an expensive GPRS connection:

- E-Mail: Loading everything via POP3 or even better compressed UUCP
  on my phone, reading with my favorite mail client that suits the
  display. Uses minimum bandwidth and I can cut the connection after
  loading mail. Cheap.
- Web forum: Suffer with the web browser on a forum design not
  suitable to the small display. Using tons of bandwidth for every
  request, staying online all the time. Really expensive.

Sebastian



-E-mail: loading hunderts of  e-mails with questions  that have been
discuted at least 300 times  and hunderts of flaming e-mails, and maybe
dozends of i need this and that app e-mails, just to see that there's no
kews in the development of the navigation system (the info you where looking
for)
-Webforum: click on a shortcut in the favorites, log in, jump to category
application development - navigation system, seeing that there's nothing
new, closing the connection. With the support of rss this would be even
better: open feedreader, scan through new posts in application
development-navigation system, close feedreader.



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Re: email vs forum

2007-07-25 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -E-mail: loading hunderts of  e-mails with questions  that have been
 discuted at least 300 times  and hunderts of flaming e-mails, and maybe
 dozends of i need this and that app e-mails, just to see that there's
no
 kews in the development of the navigation system (the info you where
looking
 for)
 -Webforum: click on a shortcut in the favorites, log in, jump to
category
 application development - navigation system, seeing that there's
nothing
 new, closing the connection.

Just that a few page views on a heavily bloated forum web site
already means more traffic than a bzip2-compressed UUCP batch of 300
mails.

And still, if you just only want to quickly view if there are new
messages on the server, you're free to use IMAP.



nice. And now explain this to your Grandmother. Because as Einstein said:
you have only understood something whe you can explain it to your
grandmother.
For you it's easy to say that you simply have to use IMAP, but the average
consumer that only needs to knoe the answer to his question probably isn't
going to learn how to set it up.




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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

2007-07-24 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/24/07, wim delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Tuesday 24 July 2007 02:08:32 Daniel Robinson wrote:
 I already use my browser to read my email.  I use Gmail to handle the
mail
 from my domain.  I can read it at home, at the coffee house or at my day
 job.

great for you but AFAIK almost all ISP offer reading mail from their web
page
so GMAIL, hotmail, yahoo etc are all obsolete.



I also use gmail to collect the mail from various pop3 servers, so I can
read them at home, in the other flat, at work or at work,  gmail has a very
good spam filter and also the labelling is really cool. But that's not tht
point.



 The argument that you have to start your browser seems thin to me.  What
is
 a mail reader if not an application as complex as a browser?

well most mail readers are integrated in your desktop and impose far less
overhead when checking for email.  Also you can do nice filtering and
other
scanning for stuff.  Also YOU control your email box and not the
application
that your 'web'-mail provider has made available to you.



The point is: most people just start their mail client, read their mail and
close it. So it#s like starting the browser, reading the forum and closing
it.



 A forum allows the _writer_ to sort the posting.  I have yet to find an
 email filtering program that does works in a more than rudimentary
fashion.
 A forum can be searched for keywords in much the same way that an email
 list can be searched.

I do not get that ... what do you mean by the 'writer' and sorting ? my
mail
application (Kontact of KDE) allows searching for ANY data in ANY part of
the
mail (body subject etc)



Ok, in a forum i can post in the category Developemnt subcategory
Applications subcategory Graphics. Or Community-
Marketing-Advertisment. And if you don't want to read a category, you
simply skip it. And every half decent forum has a built-int search, per
title, author, timerange, content, categroy, etc.



 Posts stay on a forum.  Much of the email on this list goes into the bit
 bucket for me.  Advertising?  Marketing?  We don't have a working phone
 yet.

Well most mailing lists collect the email too.  All mailing lists I have
subscribed to have a page on which you can scan through the archive.



That's true, but scanning through a mailing list can be really annoying if
you're not familiar with the system. and moste people aren't.


So I like the mailing list system, but I read my mail 3 times a day. If some
normal user, maybe 56k connection, who connects 2 times a week, has to stay
online a hour just to download the las 187 mails from the list, this isn't
really the best solution. For development work, the list is perfect. But for
support/community not. IMO the comminity list should be changed into a
forum, with a good category structure, ant the development lists should stay
here.Then every decent forum allows to recive e-mails on new threads, and
also posting per mail shouldnt be difficult to achieve with a bit of a
hacjing around with phpbb (or wathever we would like to use). The point is
that most aren't really intrested in reading everything that's posted, but
if you post on a mailing list, you have to download all the mail to know if
someone answerd your question.


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Re: Multi-touch, screen size, and case shape.

2007-07-24 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/24/07, Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Yes I agree with all your points.

I suspect the Apple patents are on the interaction techniques, and
possibly on some specific hardware.  Obviously multi-touch existed a
few years ago (FingerWorks was around, and I think the FTIR method was
invented even earlier).  We will see how the lawsuits turn out, which
patents Apple can defend and which they cannot.  (Lawsuits would seem
to be inevitable given the flurry of activity which the iPhone has
provoked.)



Multitouch screens are around so much time that apple can have patents just
on their specific implementation.

However some of the interactions which only involve one finger on the

iPhone, should still be possible with a conventional touchscreen (for
example, flicking to scroll a page).



That's correct.

A physically larger screen would be nice to read, and I personally

would put up with the larger overall size (especially if it makes up
for it by being thinner); but people have their stereotypes about how
big a phone is too big, and something larger than the iPhone will
not sell as well.



A good idea would be to use the so-much-talked-about-but-never-used
e-paper: simply a small e-paper attached to the back of the phone, which can
be rolled out to have a bigger screen. Some sort of medieval-pergament-sort
of look. Wold be great IMO. The normal phone for normal applications, the
e-paper for browsing, reading, whathing movies, etc.

(If people could just get away from holding the

whole thing up to their ears like a brick, it would help.  Maybe use a
bluetooth headset?  but I don't use one myself either.)



Headsets aren't always well-seen by people, so I would force them to use
them.



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Re: Camera on GTA02

2007-07-24 Thread ramsesoriginal

It would be enough (easy saying) if someone would make some camera that
fits into the whole in the body of the NEO.. the half-circle-one. With
bluethooth interaction. Would be great.. just find someone who produces it?
Maybe the FIC could start some sort of addon-series, small gadgets that
fit in the whole. Could even e a bluetooth-usb-controller, with built-in
batteries so that teh Neo could work as host. Or, I mean, everybody could
satart making the addon packs. why not?


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Re: Camera on GTA02

2007-07-24 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/24/07, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Tuesday 24 July 2007 01:21, Giles Jones wrote:
 On 24 Jul 2007, at 00:09, Nkoli wrote:

 Nokia are a brand, along with Samsung and Sony Ericsson they own the
 market. It's unrealistic to think this phone can get huge market
 share. Simply because you won't have the major operators selling them
 on contract.

 Until operators are pushing them and people know what the brand means
 (ie, reputation) it's going to be a phone for people in the know.

I'm not sure about the rest of europe, but in the Netherlands it's fairly
normal to go to a shop and purchase whatever phone you want together with
whatever contract you want. The phone shop will simply get a provision for
each contract sold and use this to discount the phones they sell. This
results in lists like this: http://www.gsmweb.nl/tmobile/index_toestel.htm

You really don't need anything from an operator to get on that list, when
there is demand for a phone it will can be sold both with and without
contracts. Overhere FIC needs to get these resellers on board, not the
operators.

AVee

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In Italy it's similar. I think it would be cool to have some sort of
partnership with big chains like MediaWorld/MediaMarkt, or official
operator Shops (they always have some sort of cooperation, and geting in
there would mean to see the phone in 80% of the shops).

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Re: Marketing...

2007-07-23 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I think most people are jumping way too far ahead..



agree

If this is to be used by anyone other than linux geeks it has to have

windows support.



completely agree

It has to synch with outlook.  If it does not work

seemlessly with windows, it will never have mass appeal (and maybe thats
the goal??)



Ok, you're right.

Users need to be able to drag and drop files between the

device and windows.



Stop.
No, here is your error. Out of 20 avarege users, only 5 _know_ that there
exxists something like drag and drop. It's important that it's there, for
every mac user, for every advanced user or even for every enthusistic teen,
but for the avarage user, a interface liek the upload of a file on a
homepage is the best (clock here, selet file, clock ok, click upload). The
alternative is that it shows up as a hard disc, like Iomega did for their
Network hard drives. We should provide more solutions for one problem, so
that we allow the idiot but also the genius (sorry for the terms to use
AND customize it. Wanna new interface look? same procedure as for copying a
song on the phone. Or syncing with exchange.

Mp3's, pictures, and to some degree videos need to be

user friendly to move between the 2..  Videos need atleast a converter app
to run on windows to resample to something the neo can handle with the
simple push of 1 button..



Ok, agree. Would even be better without converter. People don't like seeming
their things converted.

The ability to customize this forever is a good thing, it needs to be

available.  But i think to the end user it has to be hidden.



Oh, no. The user shoudl be able to customize the aesthetics. And this
should be really easy.

No average joe wants to spend 5 hours a day re-building the tip of the

kernel so he
can ftp the latest new kids on the block track to his phone, and then ssh
in to start it playing



No, but some geeks want to. And he should have the possibility to. Avarege
Joe should have a nice grphical frontend that says (Wanna update your
phone, copy your newest song on it and have a caffe meanwhile?) (ok, i
think we need soem sort of coffe interface).

All of these apps and ideas are awesome.  I hope to be active in writing

some of these.. But for this to be more than a science experiment and
become a viable product for the masses, it all has to be dumbed down and
point and click and work without thinking about it..



Agree 100%

Maybe I stated the obvious, but I would like this phone to be a success

and thats how i see it happening.. start with the basics...



Agree 120%. have a functiong dialer and sms service. then talk of everything
else.


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Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?

2007-07-20 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/20/07, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I've been reading the archives of the various OpenMoko lists and I've
noticed
a significant number of people who admit they are not programmers at all,
or
that this is their first exposure to Linux.

I'm curious what a non-programmer is going to do with this device in the
next
few months.  And if your first use of Linux is on the device itself, and
you
run Windows on your desktop, how you're going to grow your Linux skills
and
effectively develop applications.  Just seems odd to me, but maybe I'm
overlooking something. ;-)

BTW, there are threads of discussion here that are answered by digging
into
the source code released so far.  I've seen some people asking the
OpenMoko
team to spell how how this or that is going to be done (events from calls)
--
guys, its in the source and at this stage we're expected to be developers.
While waiting for our oders, we should be setting up our development
environment, reading thru the source given so far, and writing test
programs
to run within the QEMU environment, to get ready.  I doubt once the device
arrives in the mail that it will come with a manual that makes all things
clear or that the functionality on the device will be useful for much by
itself -- you'll still have to dive into the source.

As an embedded developer myself, the less than smooth way things are
unfolding
and the rough nature of the device itself are normal and expected when
engineering a new device.  Those used to a consumer device may not
understand
this as they rarely get a peek into the process like FIC is giving us.

And I'd just like to say to the OpenMoko team thanks for giving us this
device and opening it up so that we can participate in its shaping.  That
many
decisions on how things are going to be done are not yet made is a -good-
thing, people.  The journey is the reward for geeks, not the final
destination
of a polished, shrink-wrap consumer gadget.

-Jeff




In some points i agree, but i think as an application developer you should
not have to look into the code of gsmd, or whatever. As an application
programmaer, i (usually) expect some sort of interface wich i can use, and
wich is documented. Because if every application diggs deap in some sort of
demons/driver/whatever, and some piece of code changes, then we're all
fucked up (sorry for the expression).



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Re: mozilla based browser for maemo...

2007-07-19 Thread ramsesoriginal

It would be nice to have also a webkit-based browser.

On 7/18/07, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Wednesday 18 July 2007 05:58:29 Thomas Gstädtner wrote:
 Looks very(!) promising!
 According to the documentation on the page the UI is completely abstract
so
 a OpenMoko gui shouldn't be a such big thing.
 The UI seems to be proprietary software by nokia, so this wouldn't
usable
 for OM so or so.


yep. my understanding is that they right now have two interfaces up and
running. a generic gtk one (not shown afaik) and the hildon/maemo one.

 2007/7/18, Jae Stutzman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  I thought this interesting...not sure what the status of the browser
for
  openmoko is:
  http://browser.garage.maemo.org/
 
  According to the information this is not based on Minimo, but the same
  components as Firefox. The download was 7 MB to my N800! Full AJAX
  support.
 
  Jae
 
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Re: projects of interest? - mebot

2007-07-19 Thread ramsesoriginal

IF (and only if) we have some sort of navigator map, there should be no
problem. If we have some sort of route-tracking and the possiblity to save
places, it would be even simpler: Just store everything as a graph, and Then
use one of the many Graph-algorithms out there. I think a simple topological
sort would be enough for the beginning, then we could search something that
fits better for us.


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Helping developers

2007-07-19 Thread ramsesoriginal

As far as I have seen, we have a bit of a mess with the devlopers. Everybody
makes everyting, and noone documents it. We should try to focus on
modularisation:
The gsmd team just gives us an api, the definition of the dbus and the xml
config file.
The SMS team just releases the information about THEIR api, xml config file
and dbus.
And so on.
This gives the possibility that even if we have no functioning SMS
implmentation, since we have the info, we could already write apps that
send/recive sms.
Even if we have no acceleromer (or whatever those things are called) we
could write apps that use team, if some writes teh documentation.
If we modularize like this, even a (noob) not so experiencied progammer like
me could write some useful apllications.
The documentation should be simple and clear.
I think this would alloe us to implement all the wonderful ideas we have
here, and it would allow tho focus on certain goals.

Best Reguards, Stefan Insam

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Re: Why iPhone using AJAX was genius

2007-07-19 Thread ramsesoriginal

Could also be a cool feature for the advertisments (maybe not the official
ones, but when you talk about with your friends):You can also use ALL OF
the iPhone apps out there, besides the (hopefully) thousands of OpenMoko
Apps

On 7/3/07, Frederic Kettelhoit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


complete compatibility would be awesome! the ajax apps are not really cool
for my opinion, but better than nothing. ;) I would like to see the faces of
all the apple fanboys out there, when they hear that we can use their
apps.^^

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Re: mozilla based browser for maemo...

2007-07-19 Thread ramsesoriginal

cool!
But is this only the enjime? Have we some sort of end-user-ready version?

On 7/19/07, Florent THIERY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 7/19/07, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It would be nice to have also a webkit-based browser.

http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/webkit-progress.html

http://code.google.com/soc/2007/openmoko/appinfo.html?csaid=B5A2E96741FD60E4

Regards

FLo





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Re: projects of interest?

2007-07-19 Thread ramsesoriginal

I am working on some sort of paint for OpenMoko (Just as a training to learn
gtk/improve my skills). If i manage to creat a halfway good plugin systme,
the kanji trainer could be a plugin for this one.

On 7/19/07, Andreas Jellinghaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I would like to train my vocabulary while in the subway.
a simple application that shows me a word, and when I tab
ob it the translation with two buttons ok / wrong, so I
can entwe if I knew it would be enough. combine that with
retrying those I got wrong more often and it would help
me a lot.

if anyone has an idea how to implement this: a trainer where
I have to draw the kanji (all strokes in the right order etc)
would be great, but I have not enough clue about that to implement
it.

Andreas


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Re: Hardware/Software UI Relationship

2007-07-18 Thread ramsesoriginal

I still think that some sort of modular keyboard (i mean: template, skin,
whatever you may call it) would be the best solution: everyone chooses what
fit's better for his needs. And everyone can develope in a simple way some
sort of keyboard in the meanwhile, and we have plenty to choose from for the
official realease to be included.


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Re: Using GPS to automatically find and use Points of Interest

2007-07-18 Thread ramsesoriginal

A path-tracking ability would be great in any case. Just as an example: the
local alpinist group bought a device for several thousend euros to
track all the footpathes nd have a nice map. Or the Energy firm here in
italy is doing the same for the gas pipelines. But it could also help
finding back when you're lost, etc...
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Re: projects of interest?

2007-07-18 Thread ramsesoriginal

I though that this phone could be great for Bars/restourants/pubs: a simple
wifi network, and an app which syncs the order typed (or choosen) by the
waiter whith a waiter. There are plenty of such devices, I know, but if a
phone could also do this, it would be cool. We could write our own server
app with grafical frontend for the kitchen, or look if there's some sort of
standrad such that we simply implement it.

Another cool use would be (TV|Radio|Computer|xyz) remote control, eventually
with a cool app which checks the channel guide from an rss feed.

Another cool use could be as simple concert helper: simply create a
TuxGuitar player/visualizer. And incorporate something like Jokosher, a
guitar tuner. With some proper setup, could be cool.

p.s. As Bluetooth keyboard, i recommend
http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/


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Re: Not the free phone

2007-07-17 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/16/07, Visti Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Perhaps a different name different locations ;o)

The Phone for The Matrix tm.
The One Phone for Mddle-earth.
The Next Generation Phone for Star Trek tm conventions.
The True Phone for religious occasions.




Ok, that's not a bad idea. maybe for some sort of adsense, or
target-specific advertisment (fantasy newspapers? forum banners?)
The Phone with the only force (wheel of time)
The diy phone (steampunk scene)
The ZAT'NI'KATEL'PHONE (stargate)
and so on. not bad as idea.

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Re: Hardware/Software UI Relationship

2007-07-17 Thread ramsesoriginal

a wheel dialer, like the good old phones? or maybe a exagonal layot, you
know, with the keys fully filling the part assigned to them, i hope you
understand. Or even some sort of panning and zooming dialer, like you see
the whole dialer, then you press on key, and it zooms to such a degree that
you only se the half of the outermost keys. and then it just pans around as
you type. ok,could be kind of weird.

How on a customizable dialer UI? some sort of template system, so everyone
can make some templates, and then we simply make usability tests? And we
ship only one template, but make the others aviable as download?

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Re: Not the free phone (was: Re: Again: Advertising thoughts

2007-07-17 Thread ramsesoriginal

The Open Phone
Our Phone
The Human Phone (ok, sounds a bit like Ubuntu)
Free your Phone (wich obviously is not the same as The free phone. It
sounds good, and is already used in the youtube ads)
More then a Phone
Phone++
The Phone from people to people
The Freedom Phone
Teh ub3rz h4ck70r7 Ph0n3!!11oneeleven

btw not only in North America The free phone could be missleading, because
everywhere operators did that strategy. But only in english this could be
misleading, because in other languages free (si in beer) is not the same as
free (es in freedom). for example german kostenlos/gratis frei, italian
gratuito libero (even if libero is(was?)a phone carrier), ...

p.s. i hate the way gmail handles this list. couldn't we have the respond-to
adress set to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Shipping other than UPS

2007-07-17 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/17/07, Hans van der Merwe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Is it possible to get the phones shipped with anyone other than UPS?

The fact that the shipping to South Africa is $148.97 and the phone is
$300 just makes it impossible to order (this excl taxes etc).
And with the Oct Phase 2 phone going for $450 + whatever taxes, shipping
etc on-top to get it to SA this phone is going to be a no-go in this
country.

Whats wrong with plain ol USPS?

ps. are the phones shipped from US or Taiwan?



Also someone may have some sort of contract with shipping companys, which
would make it alot cheaper.


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Re: Galileo

2007-07-17 Thread ramsesoriginal

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/16/us-and-eu-nearing-agreement-on-gps-galileo-partnership/


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Re: Again: Advertising thoughts

2007-07-16 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/16/07, Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I understand where you are coming from with the OpenMoko's philosophy
being the Neo's strong point but I just don't feel that that's enough to
draw in the average consumer and the Neo is the perfect device for the tech
savvy user, however tech savvy users are a large minority.  I also hear you
on the fact that a majority of help desks are full of people that don't
actually know what they are doing and are just trouble shooting from a
list.  It would be a smart decision to advertise to both average and
advanced users however I think the Neo sells itself to the advanced group.
Whatever man, we'll just have to agree to disagree.  I have to go outside
and enjoy the rain now.



I completely agree. My idea is to make two advertisment campains: one on
maisntream media: maybe tv, maybe radio, flyre, poster, newspapers,
wathever.  This ads would be something like: The free phone, OpenMoko. The
only one with  The OpenMoko: now with builtin navigator and so on.
Don't even THINK of using based on Linux Kernel 2.6.xx or With powerful
ssh acess
Then I would make a second advertisement campain on the net: most users on
the net ARE the (a bit) advanced users: here you con make the powerd by
Linux and The power of Open Source ads. And then a third series, wich
simply describes the crude facts, for example With powerful ssh acess, on
thenical online newspapers, or something in that way. Because the opneMoko
IS Userfriendly fro Non-techies, and IS ALSO extreamly powerful for the
geeks.
Also a bit of local ads would be good: in small, local newspapers, or
small, local radio stations. They are cheaper and you know the audience and
can create custom ads.




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Re: Again: Advertising thoughts

2007-07-15 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/15/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



I agree with all of this, and I want to add that the aGPS stuff is our
counter to the iphone's camera.  Inevitably there will be side by side
comparisons after launch (every phone will be compared to the iphone),
and the gps is our counter to the camera.

I also think that the general public associates linux with not easy
to use.

m



Just one thing: the general public doesn't even know the word Linux.



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Re: The Openmoko Vo-IP network

2007-07-13 Thread ramsesoriginal

On 7/13/07, Nick Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 7/11/07, George Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Now that we have a great phone to use, we could use a great channel
 for communication. The vision is to communicate using the most open
 channel of communication ( the Internet) using VoIP technology for
 routing all mobile phone calls. Openmoko application framework can be
 used to create a skype-like client running on openmoko. A wireless
 router can provide the mobility, which are connected to each other
 using the Internet. The hotspot can be serviced by WiMAX or WiFi
 technology. The router will talk to other openmoko routers, routing
 the call to users on openmoko network. Files and video can be
 transfered/ streamed to each other through openmoko. This would be a
 great to go along with Openmoko, not only providing a free phone,
 but also a free network as well.

There is already a technology for this - SIP - and open VOIP PABXes
(Asterisk). We just need a client for OpenMoko. No sense reinventing
the wheel. :)

-Nick Johnson

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I think on this way there could be somethnig more powerful for the OpenMoko:
some sort of ad-hoc network between openmokos. hm.. let's see if I can
describe what i mean: Some sort of Adressed Walkie-Talkie with openmoko as
clients AND as repeaters. It should be possible, and useful for example in
companies where the OpenMoko is adopted as officaial phone, or for Trekking
groups, et cetera...

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Re: TomTom (was Re: [Nederlanders opgelet] Dutch newspaper blog about OpenMoko phone)

2007-07-13 Thread ramsesoriginal

That would be great. Anyone got contacts to TomTom? If they could provide it
within the release, it would be a good chance to make ads (eventually
toghether)

On 7/12/07, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 Also, I guess when the author says navigational software shouldn't be a
 problem because TomTom runs Linux, he's wrong, right? (That was a weird
 sentence)

Some or all of the commercial TomTom units run Linux internally, and,
they have software-only products (e.g., I think this is what Palm
resells for some Treo models). Putting that together, one can predict
that TomTom *might* offer an Arm-Linux-Based software-only product that
would work on OpenMoko, when the volume sales of OpenMoko are there.

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Re: Openmoko ads on youtube

2007-07-06 Thread ramsesoriginal

18 and 18 are great. WoW.
atm i am at work, but another cool idea could be the morphing through all
the history of communications: speech, smoke signals, flags, fires,
messengers, telegrafs, fone, amateur-radio, and then the openmoko. And the
something like: Comunication has always been free. Let it remain so.

On 7/6/07, Adam Krikstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=472DE700A3CC70A4

13-19 are new.

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Re: Openmoko ads now on youtube

2007-07-05 Thread ramsesoriginal

Good work. It's exactly the kind of work is mostly missing in the Open Surce
field:advertisement.
Another possibility to advertise would be creating some standard ads,
pictures, that we put on the wiki, and that everyone can post in their local
journals. Small journals and magazines mostly publish ads really cheaply,
and it would even show the openmoko to people not really into
YoutubeOpensourceBloggingTechStuff.

But the vids are definietly great!



Adam Krikstone wrote:

 Good and bad, here are some ads for openmoko and the neo1973 I did.
 Sorry for the bad quality on some but there aren't many videos or
 pictures of the neo1973 besides the wiki.  I stayed with the free your
 phone, aspect since advertising linux to the public is not going to
 work. I can make better ones if someone can get me high res photos and
 video (720x480 and above).

 Playlist:
 http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=472DE700A3CC70A4

 Individual:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCQ7dmGuAU8
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQPjfUqp-dk
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qP-K1HOMHk
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S--2HeQqjq4
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpwxzEopg60
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuG2hYiO9AU
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGjY7tigdkA
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR4ezMgRlWo
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZC3mjRW5Tg
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxsVFG7jHI8
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62kLhNngE20

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Re: Openmoko ads now on youtube

2007-07-05 Thread ramsesoriginal

With wich Program did you made thouse? Because if it's possible, you could
share the project files, or at least tell us the fonts used, so that if
someone else is going to make some ads, we could hold the same style.

On 7/5/07, Adam Krikstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Most people are picking the ones that I didn't care too much for.  It
only took about 30 minutes to get the ideas.  I have quite a few more
but stopped in case there was overwhelming opposition here.  I want to
do more revolving around the neo in use instead of images and increasing
productions values through better sourced media.  People need to see the
benefits of an open handset, not just be told how great it is.  I think
this project is great and have high hopes for its success.

Feedback is appreciated about the videos.




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Re: Touchscreen enable/disable

2007-07-04 Thread ramsesoriginal

It could be possible to achieve the same simply ba combining the volume of
the microfone and, if you are calling, and mabe (if it will be integrated) a
temperature sensor(wich should'nt be hard to achieve).

On 7/4/07, Frederic Kettelhoit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


the iPhone has a proximity sensor. But it is patented afaik.

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Re: GPS trail - crazy idea

2007-07-04 Thread ramsesoriginal

it could interface with google maps, http://wikimapia.org/ or have some
custome service, as a basis we could use
http://wikimap.sourceforge.net/Main_Page

On 7/4/07, Urivan Saaib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Werner,

This sounds pretty cool. I've always thinking on a service that could let
anyone provide means to upload their position (without being tied to any
personal records) and be able to see through the time the evolution of the
flows of population (dynamic of fluids).

Could be amazing to see the same way we do now the wind and temperature
patterns around the globe but with people ! :)

Regards,

-Urivan Flores-Saaib

==Original message text===
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 1:39:13 +0100 Werner Almesberger wrote:

Hi all,

I was wondering of any of the Gtk gurus hanging out here could do
me a little favour. I have this idea that's haunting me in my
sleep, but I don't have the time to implement it. It should be
really easy to do, though.

The idea is to have a GPS tracker/mapper that uses a very simple
GUI with very rapid (finger) interaction to find one's way around
some place. There are no maps. The context is provided by past
movements and/or external information sources, combined by the
user's brain.

Brief description:
http://people.openmoko.org/werner/trail.txtGUI mockup (for 640x480):
http://people.openmoko.org/werner/trail.ps
The current location interface should probably be generic, e.g.,
reading x-meters, y-meters, seconds messages from a Unix domain
socket. We can then feed it with fake test data and/or slap on a
converter from NMEA.

I know there are similar programs around, but I don't think they
pursue this light-weight and real-time approach quite to the same
extent.

Anyone feeling like giving it a try ?

- Werner

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===End of original message text===



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Re: An alternative gaming top case

2007-07-03 Thread ramsesoriginal

Hey.
I was also thinking about some
usb-interfacing-docking-station-sort-of-thing. Since I am a bit into
woodcarving, i was thinking about making som sort of wooden outer envelope
which interfaces through usb, has an incorporated usb-hub, some sort of
d-pad and maybe other functionalities (like a camera). But this was just an
idea for something done by myself for myself.. nothing special.
What i really like to point out is a simple question: will this still remain
a phone or will it become a second GP2 (http://www.gp2x.com/)? Maybe we
could contact the GP2-team and make some sort of Neo-to-GP-connecting-thing.
It could supply something like nintendo ds: Touch screen at the top, and a
gaming device with d-pad at the bottom. Everything with the 3d
accelerometeers, the gps, and al lthe other fancy stuff.. it would open
thousands of possibilities.
just my 2 bits..

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Re: Custom case designs...

2007-07-03 Thread ramsesoriginal

First they wil lthink that it's a rip-off of the iPod customisation.
Then they will think that it's not useful, not functional, only thrown-away
money.
Then they will see how cool it looks at their buddy's neo, and will buy one
for themselves ;)

On 7/3/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I have been thinking a little more about this and I struck upon an
idea... What if you could buy a custom case with a custom message on
it.

I am not talking about painted messages but letters and shapes cast into
the plastic shell.
Raised, sunk, custom fonts etc.

Naturally we can't just replicate the exact neo1973 shell without
permission, but maybe something like it and removing the FIC logo
(unless we get permission to use it) or the like.

This is more of a vanity thing than a functional thing.. But what do
people think of it?
--Tim

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