Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear - what market
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Robert Taylor wrote: On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is worth. The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will happen again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter if the first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time everyone will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same price than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized iphones with moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the iPhone will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway) not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was assumed that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (att). so they sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from att after that. now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of not completely cover it and then some. This is how I've understood it too, so this means there would be no cheap unlocked iPhones on the market in any significant volume. But the next thing to consider is what market/audience is the main target of OM. It seems some places (US) you'll end up to pay the same for the contract with or without a subsidised phone, which makes OM pricey compared to other options. In many places in europe however you can get much cheaper contracts without an included phone. In Finland (which is a best case scenario, granted) for example, I would never touch a phone+subscription combo, partly thanks to a good legislation. So in many (most?) countries in europe OM + a contract could be significantly cheaper than iPhone. I can't say about the asian market, but I think the imporant thing to consider where the most phones are expected to be sold. Another thing to consider is the target audience of GTA02. Are people who consider getting GTA02 also considering iPhone, or is it more of a geek/hacker (GTA02) - ooh look at me, I'm so trendy (iPhone) split, in which case the problem isn't a big deal to begin with. sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the factory or from shipments before they get to an apple or att or other carrier store, and some may be sold under the counter without contract - but i guarantee that that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a rebate once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean hey have to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money. as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT contract are going to be much more than $199. furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and philosophy. This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and understand the reality of the situation. not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a pinable you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, but you pay anyway _ Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 You are totally right.At T-Mobile Germany you can reserve an iPhone 3G. You can only get it with an contract thant is far more expensive than comparable contracts of T-Mobile Germany. The cheapest (24 month-) contract Complete S is 5 € more expensive than a comparable one. With this contract the price for the iPhone 3G with 8GB is249€. So, now let's calculate: 5€ /month * 24 = 120 € 120+249 = 369 € = 574$ And this is not completle correct, cause in germany nearly every phone is subsidized. For my new contract without phone you can get between 150 € (233$) and 400 € (622$) at resellers. For a small contract like the one I used at the top it is around 200 €. so we are around 569€ (884 $). I think this is everything but cheap. Of course be careful with this calculation. But for a tendence is can be used. And yet a little hint: the 16GB one will cost 499€ (776$) with contract (even with the expensive ones which go up to 90€(140$)/month). I don't want to calculate the price of the iPhone, i just want to explain, that it does NOT cost 299$. Greetings Bastian Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: | On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: | | Robert Taylor wrote: | On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. | If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than | the $600 the phone is worth. | The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow | you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will happen | again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter if the | first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time everyone | will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same price | than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized iphones with | moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the iPhone | will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway) | | not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this | happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was assumed | that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore | the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (att). so they | sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from att after that. | | now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you | can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a | contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract | unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination | clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of | not completely cover it and then some. | | sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the factory or | from shipments before they get to an apple or att or other carrier store, and | some may be sold under the counter without contract - but i guarantee that | that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a rebate | once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean hey have | to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money. | | as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT contract are | going to be much more than $199. | | furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a | freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and | philosophy. | This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing | things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to | be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, | it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and | understand the reality of the situation. | | not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about | smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a pinable | you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, but you | pay anyway | | _ | Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery. | http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008 | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIUAzUlYiDScJJ+7QRAgAQAKDdPmh7mEozFztWzV/gQPGp+ab3SACghrp4 IgwHYZhD6aY4VOxlWfBRXkI= =+AlJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
Hello, This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in order: 1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the good reasons to buy one :) 2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract, the iPhone 3G will be more expensive at the end, but this is not the situation of everyone. 3) Apple will say all time that you will have to sign a contract to get an iPhone, but in the reality they do nothing to stop people unlocking phones and selling them without ATT contracts around the world (check ebay before telling again you have to sign a contract!!!), because they get money for that phones anyway. So I expect iPhones 3G being sold for $199 USD without any contract around the world, and for most people does not matter if this is legal or not. 4) FreeRunner is a product, and need sales to survive. I will buy a Freerunner instead an iPhone because i want a free phone, but many people would prefer to buy an unlocked-hacked-nocontract iPhone on ebay for $199 than an OpenMoko for $399. am I clear enough? furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and philosophy. Best wishes _ Get your fix of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN Mobile http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
Jorge . wrote: Hello, This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in order: Okay. 1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the good reasons to buy one :) Right! 2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract, the iPhone 3G will be more expensive at the end, but this is not the situation of everyone. Not true, the iphone is subsidized the moko isn't. If the moko was subsidized it would be free. This is TRUE FOR EVERYONE. 3) Apple will say all time that you will have to sign a contract to get an iPhone, but in the reality they do nothing to stop people unlocking phones and selling them without ATT contracts around the world (check ebay before telling again you have to sign a contract!!!), because they get money for that phones anyway. So I expect iPhones 3G being sold for $199 USD without any contract around the world, and for most people does not matter if this is legal or not. Again, not true. On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is worth. If you want to go ahead and throw away $600 bucks at the break of a contract and sell it on ebay go ahead. Just stop posting nonsense. 4) FreeRunner is a product, and need sales to survive. I will buy a Freerunner instead an iPhone because i want a free phone, but many people would prefer to buy an unlocked-hacked-nocontract iPhone on ebay for $199 than an OpenMoko for $399. am I clear enough? Not clear at all. If you were there would be no thread. If you want to compare apples to apples, compare a subsidized iphone to a subsized moko, or unsubsidized iphone to an unsubsidized moko. There is NO POSSIBILITY of exception to this. Just because a moko is not available as a subsidized device right now is irrelevant as its not available on the market. More to the point the new iphone isn't available yet, just pricing. furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and philosophy. This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and understand the reality of the situation. Just compare equal things and stop posting flawed arguments and there is no thread. Best wishes _ Get your fix of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN Mobile http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
As someone who owns an unlocked iPhone I understand how 3) works on the old iPhone. What is not clear is the deal on the new iPhone. The reports are that the person who buys it will have to enter the contract when they buy it. Note, this is different than 3). The reality is we don't know for sure what will happen in the different regions yet. Therefore it is not as clear as you state. John. 2008/6/10 Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in order: 1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the good reasons to buy one :) 2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract, the iPhone 3G will be more expensive at the end, but this is not the situation of everyone. 3) Apple will say all time that you will have to sign a contract to get an iPhone, but in the reality they do nothing to stop people unlocking phones and selling them without ATT contracts around the world (check ebay before telling again you have to sign a contract!!!), because they get money for that phones anyway. So I expect iPhones 3G being sold for $199 USD without any contract around the world, and for most people does not matter if this is legal or not. 4) FreeRunner is a product, and need sales to survive. I will buy a Freerunner instead an iPhone because i want a free phone, but many people would prefer to buy an unlocked-hacked-nocontract iPhone on ebay for $199 than an OpenMoko for $399. am I clear enough? furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and philosophy. Best wishes _ Get your fix of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN Mobile http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
Robert Taylor wrote: On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is worth. The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will happen again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter if the first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time everyone will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same price than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized iphones with moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the iPhone will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway) furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and philosophy. This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and understand the reality of the situation. not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a pinable you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, but you pay anyway _ Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jorge . wrote: Hello, This post is going further my expectations :) so, lets put the things in order: Okay. 1) FreeRunner and its freedom is the best, so we dont need an argue about the good reasons to buy one :) Right! 2) In countries where you have to sign a two year contract, the iPhone 3G will be more expensive at the end, but this is not the situation of everyone. Not true, the iphone is subsidized the moko isn't. If the moko was subsidized it would be free. This is TRUE FOR EVERYONE. 3) Apple will say all time that you will have to sign a contract to get an iPhone, but in the reality they do nothing to stop people unlocking phones and selling them without ATT contracts around the world (check ebay before telling again you have to sign a contract!!!), because they get money for that phones anyway. So I expect iPhones 3G being sold for $199 USD without any contract around the world, and for most people does not matter if this is legal or not. Again, not true. On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is worth. I am sorry for contraddicting, but you can get jailbraked iPhones for around 200$,and the firmware of the 2.0 is already jailbraked since some time, and even futher, some people are already trying to compil linux for the iPhone 2.0. If you want to go ahead and throw away $600 bucks at the break of a contract and sell it on ebay go ahead. Just stop posting nonsense. 4) FreeRunner is a product, and need sales to survive. I will buy a Freerunner instead an iPhone because i want a free phone, but many people would prefer to buy an unlocked-hacked-nocontract iPhone on ebay for $199 than an OpenMoko for $399. am I clear enough? Not clear at all. If you were there would be no thread. If you want to compare apples to apples, compare a subsidized iphone to a subsized moko, or unsubsidized iphone to an unsubsidized moko. There is NO POSSIBILITY of exception to this. Just because a moko is not available as a subsidized device right now is irrelevant as its not available on the market. More to the point the new iphone isn't available yet, just pricing. furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and philosophy. This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and understand the reality of the situation. Just compare equal things and stop posting flawed arguments and there is no thread. Best wishes _ Get your fix of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN Mobile http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- George Burns - You can't help getting older, but you don't have to get old. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 + Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Robert Taylor wrote: On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract. If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than the $600 the phone is worth. The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that allow you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will happen again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter if the first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time everyone will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same price than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized iphones with moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the iPhone will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway) not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was assumed that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (att). so they sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from att after that. now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of not completely cover it and then some. sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the factory or from shipments before they get to an apple or att or other carrier store, and some may be sold under the counter without contract - but i guarantee that that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a rebate once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean hey have to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money. as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT contract are going to be much more than $199. furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market and a freephone have to be competitive in price, not only in quality and philosophy. This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid, it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and understand the reality of the situation. not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a pinable you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, but you pay anyway _ Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it was assumed that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and apple bore the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (att). so they sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from att after that. now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of not completely cover it and then some. sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the factory or from shipments before they get to an apple or att or other carrier store, and some may be sold under the counter without contract - but i guarantee that that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a rebate once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean hey have to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money. as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT contract are going to be much more than $199. Precisely. And if you want to quit your contract you will pay A FEE that will make your phone far more expensive than $600. I wish people would stop saying nonsense. It really doesn't matter if you unlock the phone or not, the person that bought it will end up paying the full retail price of it no matter what, quitting contract or not quitting contract. To sign the contract is to agree to finance the retail cost of the v.2.0. You will not be seeing 2.0 versions on ebay for $199 that are legit. Those that aren't legit are either stolen, knockoffs or refurbished, in which case who gives a damn, they are stolen, knockoffs or refurbished and not in competition. The math simply doesn't add up fellas. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure - you can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract termination clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the subsidy - of not completely cover it and then some... Well I guess this thread is probably dead, lots of good points made. I'll stop here as I don't think I can provide anything usefull on the price comparison. Carsten I agree with your point. I think its safe to say that if our technically saavy and intelligent users cannot tell the difference between a retail and subsidized phone its a given joe six pack won't spend the time to research it any further. My hope is that we can all parrot the same message so when shit hits the fans and fucking noobs start flooding in here we can have toe a single line and explain to them the difference one noob at a time - just like the ubuntu folks are doing on irc quite well. I think I've failed in convincing any people here so that one is lost. So let's see if we can salvage some of the back and forth and see if we can get some brainstorming going ... here is a brainstorm I had in another thread about what we can do to differentiate the moko. It's clear if we (well frankly there is no we, its fic and their team, but i'll pretend there is a we to encourage a free platform) get too close to trying to compete on iphones terms or redmonds terms we will lose. How about if we try to change the playing field a bit, one release at a time. Here is one way I thought we can do it ... please feel free to comment or tear it appart: Yes. I propose a modular approach. 1 phone many external similar to this idea: http://www.icontrolpad.com/ Additionally, there is a certain cool factor to having a single unit but many docking stations if done right, for example: Quick preview: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3871478989.html Their overbearing website: http://www.buglabs.net/products Buglabs is doing something really cool, but you gotta code in java and it doesn't fit into a pocket (well it does fit in a really big pocket). It's pretty clear Mokos core group of users are very demanding, and something like that would allow for everyone to be happy. However, why I really think this could be a really great approach for the moko is the 'Hey Cool!' factor. Can you picture the conversation when you meet up with a buddy hey whats that on your moko? oh it's my new gamepod. COL! can i try it on my moko? sure ... *CLICK* ... here you go. COOL! It also reduces the dev costs for moko, it allows it to remain a smartphone and not move from that niche, reduces the number of formats that people will be demanding the moko be made in and will start to establish a hardware addon ecosystem beyond what is already being developed. What the moko manufacturers then can pull is a NIKE. Instead of relying purely on sales of the moko, they can turn them selves into an RD and marketing company and not only produce their own hardware if they want to, but also licence officially supported modules and addons to control quality and get a cut of each sale. Also when usb3 comes along you can offload all sorts of stuff to that, such as gfx co-porcessing if you want so all of a sudden you can get ati into the picture with their completely documented processors and really start something interesting. Just some brianstorming ... Rob We haveto OUT THINK them, NOT OUTCOMPETE them. The first one allows us to define the playing field, the second one leaves us catching up with the Joneses (note: this is what iSteve has done to quite a remarkable success - dell is left shoveling small margins while apple rakes in the cash on the high end). What are your thoughts? Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price - Things clear
Robert Taylor wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: Precisely. And if you want to quit your contract you will pay A FEE that will make your phone far more expensive than $600. I wish people would stop saying nonsense. It really doesn't matter if you unlock the phone or not, the person that bought it will end up paying the full retail price of it no matter what, quitting contract or not quitting contract. To sign the contract is to agree to finance the retail cost of the v.2.0. You will not be seeing 2.0 versions on ebay for $199 that are legit. Those that aren't legit are either stolen, knockoffs or refurbished, in which case who gives a damn, they are stolen, knockoffs or refurbished and not in competition. The math simply doesn't add up fellas. Bah! Ignore this please ... I hit reply to the wrong thread!!! My bad, appologies. Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
