Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-16 Thread Guillaume Chereau
Hello Dale.
To answer your question :
The equivalent of source in python is execfile(filename). That should
work the way you said.

charlie/guillaume

On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 15:07 +1000, Dale Maggee wrote:
 One more (dumb?) question:
 
 since I'd rather keep my zhone updated, I was thinking I could create
 a 
 file named ~/addressbook.py, which contains:
 
  self.cbPhonebookReply( [
  (1, u'Kirk', '+023224433'),
  (2, u'Spock', '+034433463'),
  (3, u'McCoy', '+013244344'),
  (4, u'Scott', '+013244344'),
  (5, u'Uhura', '+013244344'),
  (6, u'Sulu', '+013244344'),
  (7, u'Chekov', '+456663443'),
  ] )
 
 and then do the python equivalent of source ~/addressbook.py at
 line 
 742. This means that I could easily keep my zhone updated and just
 make 
 a one-line change when it gets updated... but is there / what is a 
 python equivalent of source?


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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-15 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
 When I used FSO for the first time, to workaround this, I simply 
 hardcoded my contacts in the zhone python files. It works well, also if 
 it's not so dynamic :P

   
 
 great Idea! my contacts don't change often, so that would work as an 
 interim method! :D
 
 any chance you could tell me what file(s) I need to modify, and how to 
 modify it (i.e example code, I don't [yet] speak python)?

I'm not using Zhone since some weeks, however I simply edited the file 
in /usr/bin/zhone (so hold updates! :P) adding my phonebook as shown in 
the file comments.
An example is written in the git zhone file [1] too at line 742.


[1] http://tinyurl.com/6r85q9

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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-14 Thread Dale Maggee
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
 Dale Maggee wrote:
   
 the only problem I have with zhone is missing features, such as an 
 internal PIM database - at present it only uses contacts stored in the 
 sim card. Also the fact that you can only send sms's to existing 
 contacts , and can't just type in a phone number. If it wasn't for these 
 couple of things I'd be happy to use FSO3 as my primary distribution. 
 

 When I used FSO for the first time, to workaround this, I simply 
 hardcoded my contacts in the zhone python files. It works well, also if 
 it's not so dynamic :P

   

great Idea! my contacts don't change often, so that would work as an 
interim method! :D

any chance you could tell me what file(s) I need to modify, and how to 
modify it (i.e example code, I don't [yet] speak python)?

Thanks!

-Dale

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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-14 Thread Dale Maggee
Fredrik Wendt wrote:
 Hi.

 fre 2008-09-12 klockan 12:24 +0200 skrev Tilman Baumann:
   
 I found the new fso milestone and tried it out on my Neo 1973.
 Here is what i think of it. 
 [...]
 And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, 
 efl apps.
 We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should 
 look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy.
 I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some experimenting 
 first...
 

 I hope I'm not the only one that think Zhone looks really nice (apart
 from the default background). Although it's just a temporary UI, put
 there to take advantage of the framework, I'm gonna miss it - it's
 simply beautiful.

 / Fredrik
   
As I said before, I agree that it's gorgeous. Any tips on changing the 
background?

you're gonna miss it? where's it going? :O

-Dale

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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-13 Thread Fredrik Wendt
Hi.

fre 2008-09-12 klockan 12:24 +0200 skrev Tilman Baumann:
 I found the new fso milestone and tried it out on my Neo 1973.
 Here is what i think of it. 
 [...]
 And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, 
 efl apps.
 We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should 
 look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy.
 I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some experimenting 
 first...

I hope I'm not the only one that think Zhone looks really nice (apart
from the default background). Although it's just a temporary UI, put
there to take advantage of the framework, I'm gonna miss it - it's
simply beautiful.

/ Fredrik


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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-13 Thread clare johnstone
On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Fredrik Wendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi.


 I hope I'm not the only one that think Zhone looks really nice (apart
 from the default background). Although it's just a temporary UI, put
 there to take advantage of the framework, I'm gonna miss it - it's
 simply beautiful.

 / Fredrik

+1

clare

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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-13 Thread Daniel Hedblom
Hi,

I just want to agree 100%. Zhone is very beautiful and i like its simplicity.

//danielh

2008/9/12 Fredrik Wendt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi.

 fre 2008-09-12 klockan 12:24 +0200 skrev Tilman Baumann:
 I found the new fso milestone and tried it out on my Neo 1973.
 Here is what i think of it.
 [...]
 And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk,
 efl apps.
 We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should
 look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy.
 I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some experimenting
 first...

 I hope I'm not the only one that think Zhone looks really nice (apart
 from the default background). Although it's just a temporary UI, put
 there to take advantage of the framework, I'm gonna miss it - it's
 simply beautiful.

 / Fredrik

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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-13 Thread Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
Am Friday 12 September 2008 23:53:40 schrieb Tilman Baumann:
 Am 12.09.2008 um 22:43 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer:
  Now some Bugs:
  Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard.
 
  Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown
  here,
  holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check
  whether
  you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config.
 
  I have that  milestone3 release from i think the day before
  yesterday.
  (Fresh from the server even before it was released officially)
 
  Right, that one contained the bug :/

 Can i opkg upgrade one packet stright away? 

Yes. 

 Or are there new images 
 available?

Yes.

-- 
:M:

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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Dale Maggee
Tilman Baumann wrote:
 Zhone works well, but it's hideous. The integrated apps approach does 
 not work any more in a window managed environment. And the UI is clunky.
   
strange, I think that zhone is *gorgeous*, and I don't find it clunky at 
all! IMHO it's *very* pretty, and runs nicely - in terms of speed I 
think it's almost on par with qtopia - it's certainly much faster and 
less clunky than 2008.8. If I could just figure out how to change 
zhone's wallpaper...

the only problem I have with zhone is missing features, such as an 
internal PIM database - at present it only uses contacts stored in the 
sim card. Also the fact that you can only send sms's to existing 
contacts , and can't just type in a phone number. If it wasn't for these 
couple of things I'd be happy to use FSO3 as my primary distribution. 
(yes, I know, be patient, zhone is only a 'test gui', and this stuff is 
coming...)

On the whole though I think it's great!

-Dale

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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Joachim Breitner
Hi,

Am Freitag, den 12.09.2008, 12:24 +0200 schrieb Tilman Baumann:
 Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not 
 concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages.

It does show umlauts correclty here (running Milestone3 on Debian, but I
don’t think we have changed anything relevant). But those SMS were
received with the SIM card plugged into a Siemens S35, maybe that helps.

Greetings,
Joachim
-- 
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Debian Developer
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Keyid: 4743206C
  JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://people.debian.org/~nomeata


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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Guillaume Chereau
Hello Tilman. I will just comment on the tichy part of your email, since
I am the main author.

On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 12:24 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote:
 I like the Tichy concept of having pythons apps running as plugins in 
 one python runtime.
 I always expected it to be something like a app launcher that
 executes 
 python modules rather than calling stand allonw apps.
But it is exactly what it does.
I think you misunderstood tichy. But still I want to defend my approach
(that you seem to recommend so I am confused).
Tichy is a python app. I can't afford to start a new python interpreter
every time we open an application. I don't want to have too many python
interpreters running at the same time either. My solution is to use a
cooperative event based system for all the basics applications (dialer,
messages, etc) They all run in the same interpreter, and share the same
mainloop. That is what i refer to tichy as a python applets manager.

 But tichy as it is is useless. 
I agree with you in the sense that if tichy would only call stand alone
app, it would be useless.

 Combining all apps into one screen does 
 not help, we have window management.
Do you mean we should use one X window per applet in tichy ? Well that
is possible. In fact I have a backend for gtk+ and etk/evas (still
experimental). Both of them use one window per applet.

 The GUI design does not strike me as good either.
I can unfortunately only agree on this :(.
My fault. I am not an expert in GUI design (I have a hard time with it
cause things that look good on the desktop don't on a small screen.)
When I started tichy I tried to use gtk+, but then gave up and used my
own SDL based gui system (we talk about the guy who liked to write video
games here :-) ). 
Then I though about all the possible choices of graphics backend -and
how critical this choice could be- and I realize the only way to be sure
not to make a bad decision, is not to choose one at all.

So here is how it works :
When you write an application for tichy, you use as few gui objects as
possible. Instead, you define 'Items' with properties and possible
actions.
Then tichy will request for a plugin that offers the 'Design' service
and ask this plugin to create the user interface for the application.
the design plugin is free to create any interface, as long as it shows
the proper items and provides a way to trigger the proper actions on
those items (not unlike edje works)
That is why I can create backends for almost any graphic library you can
imagine, without changing the code of the applications.

 The all in one concept is just wrong in my eyes. Great idea, but done
 wrong.
The concept is wrong or the idea is great but done wrong ?

For me the all in one concept is important, at least for all the basics
phone applications. There is just too much communication between them.
It is not only a matter of sharing data (the framework is there for
this), but also being able to lauch one app from an other, and to share
the screen space in a clever way. Also the time to launch an external
application is too slow.

 I don't want to have my phone work nearly as like tichy works.
 
 I like to have some native apps like the GTK PIM apps back.
 They where really well made, usefull and useable.
 
 I like to have a home screen on the desktop like the GTK home app.
 This was really a great concept. i like to see that come back.
 I think this would be a easy job for a desklet...
I agree with you. Beside it is very simple to do.
 
 Especially important would be a dialer app that starts quickly.
 (maybe 
 living in a applet all the time) 

 The GTK dialer would be a great template. ;-)
 
 And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, 
 efl apps.
 We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should 
 look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy.
 I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some
 experimenting 
 first...
 Is there already some movement into finding the new way to interact
 with 
 the UI?
Well, what about the idea I talked about : You define a set of minimal
necessary information needed to construct the gui for many kinds of
applications (most of the time an application is just trying to show
some objects and let the user trigger actions on it). Then you use a
plugin to actually construct the gui. 

I guess Raster was a visionary on this idea. In fact he is the one who
gave me this idea once on irc, the next week I started implementing it
in tichy :P
But even the applications we have that do use edge don't do it the
perfect optimal way. If your application's code use -let's say- a
scrollbox, then you are already deciding that you want to show your
items in a scrolled view, so what if the user want to show them in a
table, or in a fancy 3d view like we start to see on a few closed source
mobile phone ? Then you have to modify the application code.
In tichy you would first create a list of items, and then ask 

Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Tilman Baumann
Guillaume Chereau wrote:
 Hello Tilman. I will just comment on the tichy part of your email, since
 I am the main author.
 
 On Fri, 2008-09-12 at 12:24 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote:
 I like the Tichy concept of having pythons apps running as plugins in 
 one python runtime.
 I always expected it to be something like a app launcher that
 executes 
 python modules rather than calling stand allonw apps.
 But it is exactly what it does.
 I think you misunderstood tichy. But still I want to defend my approach
 (that you seem to recommend so I am confused).
 Tichy is a python app. I can't afford to start a new python interpreter
 every time we open an application. I don't want to have too many python
 interpreters running at the same time either. My solution is to use a
 cooperative event based system for all the basics applications (dialer,
 messages, etc) They all run in the same interpreter, and share the same
 mainloop. That is what i refer to tichy as a python applets manager.

Yea, the concept is great for me it was more a look and feel mishap.

 Combining all apps into one screen does 
 not help, we have window management.
 Do you mean we should use one X window per applet in tichy ? Well that
 is possible. In fact I have a backend for gtk+ and etk/evas (still
 experimental). Both of them use one window per applet.

Well, you just have defended Tichy well.
I was just not happy with that everything happens in one window, and 
only one applet at the time approach.

The gui is kludgy at the time. But as it is work in progress i have no 
problem seeing that change.

 So here is how it works :
 When you write an application for tichy, you use as few gui objects as
 possible. Instead, you define 'Items' with properties and possible
 actions.
 Then tichy will request for a plugin that offers the 'Design' service
 and ask this plugin to create the user interface for the application.
 the design plugin is free to create any interface, as long as it shows
 the proper items and provides a way to trigger the proper actions on
 those items (not unlike edje works)
 That is why I can create backends for almost any graphic library you can
 imagine, without changing the code of the applications.

Edje scrips come to my mind. :)
Sounds great.

 The all in one concept is just wrong in my eyes. Great idea, but done
 wrong.
 The concept is wrong or the idea is great but done wrong ?
 
 For me the all in one concept is important, at least for all the basics
 phone applications. There is just too much communication between them.
 It is not only a matter of sharing data (the framework is there for
 this), but also being able to lauch one app from an other, and to share
 the screen space in a clever way. Also the time to launch an external
 application is too slow.

Yes and now.
The experience with the standallone gtk apps from 20082 was not too bad.
The only app that was a bit critical was the dialer.

I'm not sure what works better. Native single apps or python applets.
Native would at least be more interoperable.
And a applet like way would work too for native code...

 And i would say it is time for some gui guidelines for new world etk, 
 efl apps.
 We have a great looking environment, now let's define how apps should 
 look. And pleas don't make them look like qtopia, Zhone or tichy.
 I have some ideas for that too. But i whink we need some
 experimenting 
 first...
 Is there already some movement into finding the new way to interact
 with 
 the UI?
 Well, what about the idea I talked about : You define a set of minimal
 necessary information needed to construct the gui for many kinds of
 applications (most of the time an application is just trying to show
 some objects and let the user trigger actions on it). Then you use a
 plugin to actually construct the gui. 
 
 I guess Raster was a visionary on this idea. In fact he is the one who
 gave me this idea once on irc, the next week I started implementing it
 in tichy :P
 But even the applications we have that do use edge don't do it the
 perfect optimal way. If your application's code use -let's say- a
 scrollbox, then you are already deciding that you want to show your
 items in a scrolled view, so what if the user want to show them in a
 table, or in a fancy 3d view like we start to see on a few closed source
 mobile phone ? Then you have to modify the application code.
 In tichy you would first create a list of items, and then ask the design
 service to create a view of that list. That view may be a scrollbox, but
 it may as well be anything else. You can actually play with this in
 tichy : application conf-designgrid/default/wheel

The right way. Besides, i would say the app should decide what category 
of look it wants and the user (framework) how it really looks.

I see some basic app schemes. Tabs, scroll-lists, hirarchical lists 
(scrollable) (like the tree columns finder fiew), tables.

How they react to clicks or if they slide or fade or or how many items 
are 

Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
Dale Maggee wrote:
 the only problem I have with zhone is missing features, such as an 
 internal PIM database - at present it only uses contacts stored in the 
 sim card. Also the fact that you can only send sms's to existing 
 contacts , and can't just type in a phone number. If it wasn't for these 
 couple of things I'd be happy to use FSO3 as my primary distribution. 

When I used FSO for the first time, to workaround this, I simply 
hardcoded my contacts in the zhone python files. It works well, also if 
it's not so dynamic :P

-- 
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
Thanks for the review, I agree with almost all your points (except some
Zhone things, but UI is always subjective -- and it's not at all the
point of the fso release as you know.)

 Now some Bugs:
 Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard.

Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown here,
holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check whether
you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config.

 Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not 
 concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages.

Daniel?

:M:


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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Tilman Baumann

Am 12.09.2008 um 19:11 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer:

 Thanks for the review, I agree with almost all your points (except  
 some
 Zhone things, but UI is always subjective -- and it's not at all the
 point of the fso release as you know.)

Hehe, yea i have seen.
Seems  difficult to agree on a UI. Some think less is better, some  
think more...



 Now some Bugs:
 Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard.

 Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown  
 here,
 holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check whether
 you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config.
I have that  milestone3 release from i think the day before yesterday.  
(Fresh from the server even before it was released officially)
I did not  upgrade because i fear this will overflow my flash again  
and  trash the whole install. (gta01 ROM is clearly too small *g*)
And opkg handles this not very gracefully. :-/


 Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not
 concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages.

 Daniel?

Additional info. I believe it was sent by a Nokia N90.
If that  helps...


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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
Am Freitag, den 12.09.2008, 21:52 +0200 schrieb Tilman Baumann:
 Am 12.09.2008 um 19:11 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer:
 
  Thanks for the review, I agree with almost all your points (except  
  some
  Zhone things, but UI is always subjective -- and it's not at all the
  point of the fso release as you know.)
 
 Hehe, yea i have seen.
 Seems  difficult to agree on a UI. Some think less is better, some  
 think more...

*nod*

  Now some Bugs:
  Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard.
 
  Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown  
  here,
  holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check whether
  you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config.
 I have that  milestone3 release from i think the day before yesterday.  
 (Fresh from the server even before it was released officially)

Right, that one contained the bug :/

 I did not  upgrade because i fear this will overflow my flash again  
 and  trash the whole install. (gta01 ROM is clearly too small *g*)
 And opkg handles this not very gracefully. :-/
 
 
  Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not
  concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages.
 
  Daniel?
 
 Additional info. I believe it was sent by a Nokia N90.
 If that  helps...

Please contact Daniel to give him the SMS as PDU, so he can look into
why decoding it fails.

:M:


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Re: FSO milestone3 my view (ON gta01)

2008-09-12 Thread Tilman Baumann

Am 12.09.2008 um 22:43 schrieb Michael 'Mickey' Lauer:

 Now some Bugs:
 Differenciating between suspend and shutdown is terribely hard.

 Hmm, I thought that bug was fixed. It takes 5 seconds to powerdown
 here,
 holding the button for 1 second should trigger suspend. Check  
 whether
 you have the latest illume-fso-theme or config.
 I have that  milestone3 release from i think the day before  
 yesterday.
 (Fresh from the server even before it was released officially)

 Right, that one contained the bug :/

Can i opkg upgrade one packet stright away? Or are there new images  
available?



 I did not  upgrade because i fear this will overflow my flash again
 and  trash the whole install. (gta01 ROM is clearly too small *g*)
 And opkg handles this not very gracefully. :-/


 Zhone does not show german umlauts correctly in SMS and it does not
 concatenate big messages composed of multiple messages.

 Daniel?

 Additional info. I believe it was sent by a Nokia N90.
 If that  helps...

 Please contact Daniel to give him the SMS as PDU, so he can look into
 why decoding it fails.

Daniel, i hope you read the list. ;)

How can i 'extract' the messages?

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