Changing IMEI of Freerunner with Firmware Flash
Hi, is it possible for data protection reason to change the IMEI of the freerunner via firmware? There was a leak of the firmware of the GSM modem, so it might be possible. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Changing IMEI of Freerunner with Firmware Flash
Rash ras...@milacom.de wrote: is it possible for data protection reason to change the IMEI of the freerunner via firmware? The instructions are right here: https://www.freecalypso.org/leo2moko/ffs-edit-kit.html Please also note that the FreeCalypso community now has its own general info website (www.freecalypso.org) and its own mailing list: https://www.freecalypso.org/mailman/listinfo/community Viva la Revolucion, SF ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:03 AM, Bob Ham r...@settrans.net wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: We ... are working on a 3.14 kernel and getting things mainline Why? The GTA04 is not usable as a daily phone. Why would you waste time on the kernel instead of working on the problems that prevent the board being used? Why are you not spending this time working on the power drain? When you start working on the master or PhD thesis to resolve the power drain, I'm sure you'll find the community will be more supportive After much study, I have discovered that the biggest power drain appears to be coming from certain posts on the mailing list which ridicule and demoralize the people actually doing the work in this community. When people volunteer to work on free software/hardware projects, they are doing something to make the world a better place and they should be paid back with, at the least, our respect. —Ben ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri 21 February 2014 08:26:59 Radek Polak wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2014 08:38:35 PM Michael Spacefalcon wrote: I am also convinced that the *real* reason why Openmoko = failure in the general public's perception is precisely because of that NDA and no one having broken it during the years when it mattered the most. That's your point of view. Point of view of a firmware hacker. But there are other points of view. E.g. some people expect the phone ring when friends/wife/customer calls. I had many phones before and 2 phones after (N900 and now Jolla). None of them had any problems with SMS and telephony. Openmoko is different - they never provided SW for reliable phone. Openmoko never provided stable maintainable kernel - instead they wasted their time on doing 4 ugly unusable distros while at the time they had perfectly stable usable and working Qtopia. Granted, but then QTopia never been a true linux in my book. IIRC it had no X11, thus according to my definition of my dream companion it's as useless as Sailfish is now, and android ever been. And do you suggest any of your other phones provided a maintainable kernel so far? I have some of them too and know a bit about their kernels, I don't think they are any better than what OM provided. A question to Michael S.: the heck which dang NDA are you talking about? OM allowed all reasonable individuals access to all the docs and specs and schematics we ever had, on request (yes, including the calypso sources we had - which not been much and not been maintained by OM at all, basically). We were just not able to put it on fileservers or P2P since that would have taken us out of business immediately. That's business, sorry you don't like to accept reality in that regard, probably caused by your communist ideology. But then, why don't you start a company in Russia? OOPS, they also went capitalism now. Maybe China, with their copycat capitalism, is the best homebase for you? Anyway OM never promised to help you bring communism to world dominion, neither at large nor in hw manufacturing. OM just started to bring you best you can get regarding openness and freedom. No use in stating man should be able to fly and do a basejump from Eiffel tower dressed in a funny suit to make that happen. When OM would've taken that approach, absolutely zilch of all that's been achieved ever had reached the community. And even 5 years after there is no good kernel for Freerunner. 2.6.29-rc seems quite stable but the patch against mainline is horrible, besides it's power management is worse then it could be. 2.6.39 has hardly nearly unreproducible problem with resume. Well, you can't deny the fact that *not* a *single* phone has a clean mainline kernel. That's because mainline - sorry to be frank here - has NFC about power saving. Neither about handling realtime requirements in resource limited embedded environment (admittedly not kernel's fault) Now we have free firmware which is cool, but the usablity of the phone hasnt changed much. Well, my take on that is: it's up to you, the community, to come up with such systems designed to provide improved usability. Look, even Nokia announced EOL for any maemo fremantle maintenance only 2 years after roll out of N900. You'd have to pay a yearly fee probably even higher than the initial purchase price of the device, to make any group of professional paid developers continue support of a finalized product longer than a year or two, since otherwise there's simply no budget for such effort. Freerunner been *free* in that it absolutely allows community to pick up on that task, you got *all* the *needed* *info* and docs, and that's what OM ever been about. *NOT* about liberating the *GSM* radio stack. It has been mentioned in one of the last 5 posts to this thread: indeed, depending on your definition of free, you possibly never will find a ONE HUNDRED PERCENT FREE phone since no chip manuf will give you the masks and process step specs, nor the detailed internal structure description of chips, not even for ARM CPU. And the perceived liberation of FreeRunner now with that pirated GSM stack is a delusion as well, there are still things like WLAN firmware and glamo drivers, not to mention the maybe disclosed but not at all understood source code in the undocumented calypso chipset GSM stack itself. Heck I bet there's a whole lot of kernel stuff that's been provided by some chip manuf in BSP for the CPU/SoC and never reached the level of understood by community so it could get done again for next similar chip. When you (whoever) call that rather unexciting and irrelevant achievement of pirated GSM radio stack the frontier line between a free and a proprietary embedded device that allegedly been crossed now, then I dunno what's your benchmarks and philosophy at large. cheers jOERG -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\
GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
We ... are working on a 3.14 kernel and getting things mainline
Why? The GTA04 is not usable as a daily phone. Why would you waste
time on the kernel instead of working on the problems that prevent the
board being used? Why are you not spending this time working on the
power drain?
BTW: more support for that work from the community would speed up progress.
On Fri, 2014-01-17 at 09:57 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Looks like topic for a master or PhD thesis...
When you start working on the master or PhD thesis to resolve the power
drain, I'm sure you'll find the community will be more supportive
--
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Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Friday, February 21, 2014 09:15:27 AM joerg Reisenweber wrote: Openmoko is different - they never provided SW for reliable phone. Openmoko never provided stable maintainable kernel - instead they wasted their time on doing 4 ugly unusable distros while at the time they had perfectly stable usable and working Qtopia. Granted, but then QTopia never been a true linux in my book. IIRC it had no X11, thus according to my definition of my dream companion Running X11 apps with QTopia is technically possible. QtMoko supports this, although it could be much better integrated - but only because it was not a big priority for me. it's as useless as Sailfish is now, and android ever been. Well, IMO you should always start with something simple and working. I'd been happy if Freerunner was running from day 0 simple, reliable, power management friendly distro with Accept call and Read SMS. Community does the rest. And do you suggest any of your other phones provided a maintainable kernel so far? I have some of them too and know a bit about their kernels, I don't think they are any better than what OM provided. Right, 2.6.29-rc is probably good one - i cant recall if it's 100% perfect, but it could be. It was probably mistake to abandon it, since 2.6.3x have the suspend problems. I recently patched it to work with recent debian and made QtMoko branch which works with it, but i never decided to completely revert to it, because: 1/ it eats battery more then 2.6.39 2/ there was so much energy put in making 2.6.39 working 3/ nearly impossible to apply any security patches Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:03:47 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: We ... are working on a 3.14 kernel and getting things mainline Why? The GTA04 is not usable as a daily phone. Why would you waste time on the kernel instead of working on the problems that prevent the board being used? Thanks a lot for the excellent advice! Now if you could elaborate on what exactly *is* the source of the problem, and particularly why it's not related to kernel's power management, according to your insight. Why are you not spending this time working on the power drain? See above! [...] /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
At Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:31:46 +0100, joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Thu 20 February 2014 15:27:33 Neal H. Walfield wrote: Why do you think the only use for a mobile phone is to make calls? If I only make a data connection and am careful to tunnel all of my data via Tor, then this identification method is useful. Neal Err, right. For that usecase it might work - until you do *anything* that gives away your ID, which is even more easy in internet than in a GSM call (think searching for 2 or 3 topics on google which are specific to you. Or visiting 2 or 3 specific websites, maybe even in a certain specific usage pattern. Obviously you can't use email or anything like that. And google [and others] might be able to identify you from your typing style and rhythm into the search term textfield already). And no, you probably can't use a VPN to have only encrypted data transferred over the air. I don't think there are any free and open VPN endpoints available. Using Tor avoids this problem. Check it out: https://www.torproject.org/ Neal ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
Am 21.02.2014 um 10:03 schrieb Bob Ham: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: We ... are working on a 3.14 kernel and getting things mainline Why? The GTA04 is not usable as a daily phone. Why would you waste time on the kernel instead of working on the problems that prevent the board being used? Why are you not spending this time working on the power drain? Maybe you don't know or believe but the kernel controls the power drain. So working on the kernel is working on the power drain... Why do you waste time to write such mails instead of working on the problems that prevent the board being used? Why are you not spending this time working on the power drain? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz wrote: But there are other points of view. E.g. some people expect the phone ring when friends/wife/customer calls. Yes, that's exactly what I seek out of my cellphone too. And that is why I require having the source for all sw/fw involved in this telephony function, so when it breaks, I can debug and fix it myself, long after the original manuf has gone bye-bye. I had many phones before and 2 phones after (N900 and now Jolla). None of them had any problems with SMS and telephony. My experience is different. Until about a year ago, my true trusted phone was Mot V66 (a flip phone which I first got in 2003 if my memory serves me right). It mostly worked, but every now and then I would notice the coverage status LED flashing red instead of green - I would then open the flip to see what's going on, and the display would read Unregistered SIM. The only way to get it out of that wedged state was to cycle the power; doing the latter would immediately show perfectly good coverage with high signal strength - so it is obviously a case of the fw getting stuck in some wedged state, rather than the GSM network, although I reason that the triggering cause is likely some network transient event. This is on T-Mobile USA, Southern California, 1900 MHz GSM band. About a year ago I switched from this Mot V66 to the Calypso-based Pirelli as my everyday personal phone. Still running Pirelli's original proprietary fw for now - getting FreeCalypso into a state where it can drive a complete dumbphone rather than a mere modem is a big project still in its infancy. But it is still a freedom increment over the Mot V66, as now I have a full understanding of the GSM chipset I am using (the one in the V66 is something unknown to me), and because the original proprietary fw is TI-based, there are plenty of things I can poke at with my FC tools. And guess what, Pirelli's proprietary fw exhibits the same strange behavior with the phone inexplicably going out of service until rebooted - but instead of Unregistered SIM, the LCD simply reads GSM no service, just as if I went into a Faraday cage - except that the GSM signal is perfectly fine, as the phone itself indicates when I reboot it. So it is the same case of the fw stuck in some wedged state. I don't know if the GTA02 modem running moko11 or leo2moko suffers from the same bug or not - it manifests rarely enough that one needs to be using the phone on an everyday basis to catch it. Openmoko is different - they never provided SW for reliable phone. [...] And even 5 years after there is no good kernel for Freerunner. And why has no one in the community produced such a good kernel in all these 5 years? One probable reason is because the brightest and most talented kernel hackers, those most qualified to produce such a kernel, have left this community in frustration (moved on to other life interests and pursuits) when no liberated/NDA-broken GSM fw appeared. 2013-10-13 04:08:54 CEST came a little too late, I'm afraid - by that point all those best and brightest have already departed this community for good, doing something else for fun in their lives. 2.6.29-rc seems quite stable but the patch against mainline is horrible, besides it's power management is worse then it could be. 2.6.39 has hardly nearly unreproducible problem with resume. Now we have free firmware which is cool, but the usablity of the phone hasnt changed much. Hearing stories like this (both now and during the 2y I spent looking for the TI fw deliverables) helped convince me that I would be better off spending my time building a free dumbphone with no Linux at all, rather than whipping GTA02 Linux AP software into shape so it could function as a poor man's imitation of a dumbphone. Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: I invite every = remaining Openmoko GTA01/02 owner to cannibalize their device for a = GTA04A5 motherboard. There is a special place in Hell reserved for murderers of good free hardware like you. joerg Reisenweber jo...@openmoko.org wrote: A question to Michael S.: the heck which dang NDA are you talking about? Whichever NDA it was/is that is cited by a bunch of Om wiki pages as the reason for GSM modem fw not being free like the rest of the device. OM allowed all reasonable individuals access to all the docs and specs and schematics we ever had, on request Many were probably too timid to ask, or saw no point in getting such privileged access, reasoning what good would it do for me to have access to that shit under NDA if I can't freely share it with the world and hire any programmer of my choice to troubleshoot odd issues which I lack the skills to figure out myself... In any case, it's a solved problem now; the total collection of docs plus 4 different source versions in my GSM mini-Wikileaks is probably greater than what you ever had, so no more demands or threats from me. :) But it's hard to refrain from
Re: changing IMEI
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:17:26 Neal H. Walfield wrote: And no, you probably can't use a VPN to have only encrypted data transferred over the air. I don't think there are any free and open VPN endpoints available. Using Tor avoids this problem. Check it out: https://www.torproject.org/ This would rely on all communication between your local device and Tor's entry node being completely and securely encrypted so nobody can spy on it, not even by profiling and correlation methods. Do you think that's warranted, *always*? But honestly, the Freerunner probably isn't the device you want to use for data only, in an absolutely track-safe mode, to do... what exactly? VoIP? Hardly! For stealth access to internet there are for sure better solutions than the one we're talking about here. And initially we talked about _calls_ iirc. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:10:23 +0100 Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz wrote: Well, IMO you should always start with something simple and working. I'd been happy if Freerunner was running from day 0 simple, reliable, power management friendly distro with Accept call and Read SMS. Community does the rest. thanks for the work you've done on this, Radek. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:36:59 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: VLR, SF Do yourself a favor and ask some of your friends with a more down-to-earth mindset before you ever again consider posting such mails. When you don't get it, go and ask your friends, maybe they also can explain to you why I suggested this. Good luck! /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
the kernel controls the power drain.
How has that been determined?
--
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Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:54:23 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Roughly same way as Pi -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 10:54:23 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Your initial rant sounded much similar to the plot: blame the architect for not working on the electrics of the house, to stop the excess energy expense caused by the residents not shutting down the heating when opening the windows. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: void (was: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)))
On Fri 21 February 2014 11:43:08 David Matthews wrote: Yes it is, and those who do not believe so should allow those of us that do value it to enjoy it in peace :-0 - I at least do not need to be told repeatedly how foolish I am for delighting over something someone else believes has zero worth Please don't polemize! Nobody has told you that you're foolish. You do that now, about those of us who question the purpose of changing IMEI (something that got lost in your mail's topic, as well as the thread reference that would've put this into context) -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
Please don't polemize! ROTFL - are you asking me not to bring disagreement here? Incidentally - you're input on the IMEI topic (and much else), is not unappreciated (by me), but freeing the GSM firmware is *cool* Best wishes -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
Am 21.02.2014 um 10:54 schrieb Bob Ham: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Please find the answer and tell us about the results. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
Am 21.02.2014 um 10:36 schrieb Michael Spacefalcon: I invite every = remaining Openmoko GTA01/02 owner to cannibalize their device for a = GTA04A5 motherboard. There is a special place in Hell reserved for murderers of good free hardware like you. ROFL - you are believing in Hell and you are talking about ethical categories... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 18:15 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
Am 21.02.2014 um 10:54 schrieb Bob Ham:
On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
the kernel controls the power drain.
How has that been determined?
Please find the answer and tell us about the results.
This answer implies that you have nothing to back up your assertion that
the kernel controls the power drain. It implies that your assertion
was, in fact, just speculation. And if you don't know whether the
kernel causes the power drain, then you can't know that working on the
kernel is working on the power drain.
You are not working directly on the problem of the power drain. When
you start doing that work, instead of developing kernels for a useless
phone board, the community will be more supportive.
--
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Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 19:22:00 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 18:15 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 21.02.2014 um 10:54 schrieb Bob Ham: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Please find the answer and tell us about the results. This answer implies that you have nothing to back up your assertion that the kernel controls the power drain. It implies that your assertion was, in fact, just speculation. And if you don't know whether the kernel causes the power drain, then you can't know that working on the kernel is working on the power drain. You are not working directly on the problem of the power drain. When you start doing that work, instead of developing kernels for a useless phone board, the community will be more supportive. please take it elsewhere! you evidently got NFC but think you can patronize and instruct others /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 work (was: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI))
On Fri 21 February 2014 19:22:00 Bob Ham wrote: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 18:15 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 21.02.2014 um 10:54 schrieb Bob Ham: On Fri, 2014-02-21 at 10:22 +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: the kernel controls the power drain. How has that been determined? Please find the answer and tell us about the results. This answer implies that you have nothing to back up your assertion that the kernel controls the power drain. It implies that your assertion was, in fact, just speculation. And if you don't know whether the kernel causes the power drain, then you can't know that working on the kernel is working on the power drain. You are not working directly on the problem of the power drain. When you start doing that work, instead of developing kernels for a useless phone board, the community will be more supportive. Nikolaus' answer just implies one thing: he noticed quicker than me that any answer to you is futile. Feel free to pick the right one matching to your statements from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
On Thu 20 February 2014 12:05:00 Christoph Pulster wrote: Hi, @joerg: sorry we mis-communicate. No we don't. Or at least I don't. ;-) I am not talking about tracking (location of caller), me neither since that's absolutely trivial but identification of caller. me too If I buy a mobile, name is registered and connected with IMEI. Depends. Using a Openmoko and changing IMEI with Michaels tool does make a new device out of it. Logfiles cant be law prooven evident of my identity. Sorry, that's a dangerous misconception. Again, just in case I still didn't manage to make it clear enough: there is nobody else but you on this earth calling those 3 phone numbers (unless you call numbers that are getting called by 0.5mio users per day). Simply compare who called number A during last year, and who also called number B during last year already reduces number of individuals to max 10. Then check which of those 10 individuals doesn't use her/his old IMEI anymore and here you are: old IMEI linked to new fake IMEI. With only 2 calls done from your new SIM and IMEI to your wife and your mother (or any other arbitrary two normal phone numbers you called before). This will hold for evidence on any court, better than fingerprints. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
At Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:11:33 +0100, joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Thu 20 February 2014 12:05:00 Christoph Pulster wrote: Hi, @joerg: sorry we mis-communicate. No we don't. Or at least I don't. ;-) I am not talking about tracking (location of caller), me neither since that's absolutely trivial but identification of caller. me too If I buy a mobile, name is registered and connected with IMEI. Depends. Using a Openmoko and changing IMEI with Michaels tool does make a new device out of it. Logfiles cant be law prooven evident of my identity. Sorry, that's a dangerous misconception. Again, just in case I still didn't manage to make it clear enough: there is nobody else but you on this earth calling those 3 phone numbers (unless you call numbers that are getting called by 0.5mio users per day). Simply compare who called number A during last year, and who also called number B during last year already reduces number of individuals to max 10. Then check which of those 10 individuals doesn't use her/his old IMEI anymore and here you are: old IMEI linked to new fake IMEI. With only 2 calls done from your new SIM and IMEI to your wife and your mother (or any other arbitrary two normal phone numbers you called before). This will hold for evidence on any court, better than fingerprints. Why do you think the only use for a mobile phone is to make calls? If I only make a data connection and am careful to tunnel all of my data via Tor, then this identification method is useful. Neal ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
On Thu 20 February 2014 15:27:33 Neal H. Walfield wrote: Why do you think the only use for a mobile phone is to make calls? If I only make a data connection and am careful to tunnel all of my data via Tor, then this identification method is useful. Neal Err, right. For that usecase it might work - until you do *anything* that gives away your ID, which is even more easy in internet than in a GSM call (think searching for 2 or 3 topics on google which are specific to you. Or visiting 2 or 3 specific websites, maybe even in a certain specific usage pattern. Obviously you can't use email or anything like that. And google [and others] might be able to identify you from your typing style and rhythm into the search term textfield already). And no, you probably can't use a VPN to have only encrypted data transferred over the air. I don't think there are any free and open VPN endpoints available. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
Why do you think the only use for a mobile phone is to make calls? If I only make a data connection and am careful to tunnel all of my data via Tor, then this identification method is useful. Maybe because we are talking about a GSM modem? -- n...@el-hennig.de Lubarsky's Law of Cybernetic Entomology: There's always one more bug.___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
On Thu 20 February 2014 15:27:33 Neal H. Walfield wrote: and am careful to tunnel all of my data via Tor Recent tests have revealed that at least 20 nodes in Tor are trying to break into your encrypted data transmission. It'd widely known that Tor is infiltrated by agencies. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Thu 20 February 2014 15:27:33 Neal H. Walfield wrote: and am careful to tunnel all of my data via Tor Err, right. For that usecase it might work - until you do *anything* that gives away your ID You still have location anonymity though. An adversary may identify that someone is accessing an email account through the Tor network, but not where they are. Recent tests have revealed that at least 20 nodes in Tor are trying to break into your encrypted data transmission. That issue was explained in more detail at: https://blog.torproject.org/blog/what-spoiled-onions-paper-means-tor-users The bad relays were blocked as soon as they were discovered. The Tor project is damn good at discussing and presenting vulnerabilities in the open, and figuring out best ways of mitigating / defeating them. It'd widely known that Tor is infiltrated by agencies. From the Snowden disclosures so far, they actually have not been very successful at breaking Tor at all. Far less so than most people expected, really. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) wrote: I remember adverts of Openmoko in capitals 100% FREE mobile. that this was a false promise comes evident afterwards. I wonder how many people forked over their $$$ for those expensive Openmoko phones primarily in the hope that the bloody NDA would get broken by someone in a year or two, and were utterly disappointed when that didn't happen. I am convinced that the number is quite large, and the only thing that made me stand out is that I *voiced* this sentiment openly, without beating around the bush. I am also convinced that the *real* reason why Openmoko = failure in the general public's perception is precisely because of that NDA and no one having broken it during the years when it mattered the most. The Freerunner became truly free only on 2013-10-13, some 5y (or is it 6y?) after its introduction and 4y after cessation of production, at exactly 04:08:54 CEST, the date of this announcement: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2013-October/069010.html Prior to that announcement, i.e., at 04:08:53 CEST and for the 6y of Om community history prior to that, the Unfree-runner was a proprietary phone no different from anything out of Motorola, Samsung or Apple. But I'm afraid that the liberation came a little too late: I keep hearing the number 15k units made and sold being tossed around, but of those 15k units, after we subtract those which were cannibalized for plastic parts to stuff nasty Qualcomm modems into and those which got repurposed for some non-telephony uses, I suspect that the remaining ones are probably buried some place deep, forgotten by their owners who gave up on them when a few years passed after Om's disbanding, and yet no free GSM firmware emerged. Oh, and to add a little feminine perspective on the matter, when I told the Openmoko story (100% FREE mobile phone! - oh, oops, no, not the cellphone part) to my lady, her reaction was it would be like me saying I am only half-pregnant! I would argue that Om's biggest mistake, the one that led to their downfall, was the silly half-pregnant attempt to do it legally. It should have been done as a 100% explicitly-illegal black market operation instead. Hiring law-abiding Germans to run the show was the #1 mistake - the operation should have been run by the Chinese/Taiwanese instead. Contrary to what has been said, they did NOT have to sign the NDAs as they did - surely if the show were run by Chinese/Taiwanese without a single German on staff, they could have simply used the warez floating around that giant country. (As just one data point, the TSM30 source - *full source* - was published in 2004, at least 2y before Om came onto the scene.) The Calypso etc chips are easily sourceable on the grey market: some legit company buys 100k chipsets from TI, makes 90k phones, the remaining 10k chipsets sell on the grey market w/o unnecessary questions. The physical production of phones should have been done in some unmarked basement without any legit company attached, so there would be no one to sue, and the distribution (sales) should have been done through the same channels used to market and sell alternative medicine products like cocaine and heroin. But oh well, history is what it is. the knowledge about NDA restrictions of GSM components is still today only in some geek's mind. Huh? I'm afraid I don't follow what you are saying here. The GSM mini-Wikileaks collection at ftp://ftp.ifctf.org/pub/GSM/ now has *everything* related to Calypso and other related chipsets from TI, probably more than Om ever had. The documentation for the actual hardware components has been on my FTP site since the fall of 2011 (downloaded from 52rd.com where it had been available to those who can navigate in Chinese for much longer), and we now have TI's TCS211 fw deliverable semi-src no different from the one Om had, if we make the reasonable assumption that all of TI's chipset customers got identical or near-identical fw starting point deliverables. We even have an equivalent TI deliverable (hw docs + fw semi-src) for their LoCosto chipset (one of Calypso's successors), and while I have no desire to use LoCosto instead of Calypso (LoCosto has some freedom- reducing improvements), the LoCosto semi-src is something like 95% real C source (unlike the TCS211/Calypso/Leonardo one on which the current leo2moko port is based), hence I plan on using chunks of code from the LoCosto source to replace some of the binary-only libs in the TCS211 version. So the liberation part of the FreeCalypso project is now 100% done; what remains now is the (quite hard) purely technical work of reintegrating all of the pieces back together to build the fw using gcc without any Weendoze tools or blobs. As long as there are big players like government and companys, a 100% open mobile will never happen. Never. Of course it will never happen legally, but so what? We can build it illegally instead. Building an
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Thu 20 February 2014 20:38:35 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: was a proprietary phone no different from anything out of Motorola, Samsung or Apple. evidently bullshit! -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: changing IMEI
Hi, On 20 Feb 2014 12:05:00 +0100 openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) wrote: I remember adverts of Openmoko in capitals 100% FREE mobile. that this was a false promise comes evident afterwards. the knowledge about NDA restrictions of GSM components is still today only in some geek's mind. As long as there are big players like government and companys, a 100% open mobile will never happen. Never. 100% of what? That is the question here. You can see 100% of the software running of the application processor, 100% of everything running on some coprocessors. 100% of pcb schematics available, 100% of documentation available. 100% of inner layouts of microchips + microcode. Freedom to use 100% of available phone radio natworks (including the areas where no 2G but 3G is available. Greetings Andreas Kemnade signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
Of course it will never happen legally, but so what? We can build it illegally instead. You are a Pied Piper of Hamelin. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri 21 February 2014 07:29:28 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Of course it will never happen legally, but so what? We can build it illegally instead. You are a Pied Piper of Hamelin. Let's hope we don't have to read Pied Piper Revisited or learn about some landslide or somesuch, in a few years. ;-P /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Fri 21 February 2014 07:48:02 joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Fri 21 February 2014 07:29:28 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Of course it will never happen legally, but so what? We can build it illegally instead. You are a Pied Piper of Hamelin. Let's hope we don't have to read Pied Piper Revisited or learn about some landslide or somesuch, in a few years. ;-P /j And particularly: who's Rumpelstiltskin? And is OM == Shrek? -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: You are a Pied Piper of Hamelin. I don't mind the role. Check out The Stolen Child, poem/song by William Butler Yeats - I particularly like this rendition: http://www.elvendrums.com/cddragon.php VLR, SF ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
On Thursday, February 20, 2014 08:38:35 PM Michael Spacefalcon wrote: I am also convinced that the *real* reason why Openmoko = failure in the general public's perception is precisely because of that NDA and no one having broken it during the years when it mattered the most. That's your point of view. Point of view of a firmware hacker. But there are other points of view. E.g. some people expect the phone ring when friends/wife/customer calls. I had many phones before and 2 phones after (N900 and now Jolla). None of them had any problems with SMS and telephony. Openmoko is different - they never provided SW for reliable phone. Openmoko never provided stable maintainable kernel - instead they wasted their time on doing 4 ugly unusable distros while at the time they had perfectly stable usable and working Qtopia. And even 5 years after there is no good kernel for Freerunner. 2.6.29-rc seems quite stable but the patch against mainline is horrible, besides it's power management is worse then it could be. 2.6.39 has hardly nearly unreproducible problem with resume. Now we have free firmware which is cool, but the usablity of the phone hasnt changed much. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko's downfall (was changing IMEI)
Am 21.02.2014 um 08:26 schrieb Radek Polak: On Thursday, February 20, 2014 08:38:35 PM Michael Spacefalcon wrote: I am also convinced that the *real* reason why Openmoko = failure in the general public's perception is precisely because of that NDA and no one having broken it during the years when it mattered the most. That's your point of view. Point of view of a firmware hacker. and someone who wants to modify history to fit his argumentation. But there are other points of view. E.g. some people expect the phone ring when friends/wife/customer calls. I had many phones before and 2 phones after (N900 and now Jolla). None of them had any problems with SMS and telephony. Yes. This is one important factor. The other one was simply the economic hiccup end of 2008 why OM had to cancel the already developed GTA03 for simple economic reasons. Openmoko is different - they never provided SW for reliable phone. Openmoko never provided stable maintainable kernel This is completely different with the GTA04 and why I invite every remaining Openmoko GTA01/02 owner to cannibalize their device for a GTA04A5 motherboard. Because that goal is within reach with the GTA04. We have not reached the goal to get the 100% complete and optimal kernel from kernel.org or debian.org, but are working on a 3.14 kernel and getting things mainline (already with some success). And Replicant 4.2 is starting to work as well. BTW: more support for that work from the community would speed up progress. - instead they wasted their time on doing 4 ugly unusable distros while at the time they had perfectly stable usable and working Qtopia. And even 5 years after there is no good kernel for Freerunner. 2.6.29-rc seems quite stable but the patch against mainline is horrible, besides it's power management is worse then it could be. 2.6.39 has hardly nearly unreproducible problem with resume. Now we have free firmware which is cool, but the usablity of the phone hasnt changed much. Except for QtMoko which IMHO also should get more support to optimize the last 2%. BR, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
