subject:"\[Marketing\] Ideas \/ Plan"

Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-31 Thread Boudewijn

On Saturday 31 December 2011 13:08:47 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> Am 30.12.2011 um 23:14 schrieb Gerald A:
> >>> For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a
> >>> GTA04 to get a working phone "with possibilities". I want the
> >>> completed package, then end result. The neo was shipped with the
> >>> slogan
> > 
> > This takes approx. 15 minutes. Rarely more. And we have an installation
> > service if you don't want to DIY (I would appreciate if there will come
> > up local resellers or hacking groups in your area).
> > 
> > Does this 15 minutes require soldering skills? (I think it does).
> 
> No it doesn't. It is just some mechanical adaptations.
> 
> I think Sean some years ago encouraged to open the Freerunner and
> take a look inside...
> 
> > I personally am not averse to trying to solder -- it's something I want
> > to learn more about. But your "average linux geek" probably doesn't want
> > to. But they still might be enamored by the prospect of an open phone.
> 
> The most tricky part is to peel off the LCD module from the PCB without
> breaking the glass or disrupting the fine cables. An alternative is to glue
> a new to the GTA04 board and just swap the complete GTA02-module
> with a GTA04 module.
> 
> A complete description of the steps is in chapter 4 of the GTA04 manual:

I can second the ease with which the boards are changed. To get an idea of the 
level: I have opened a few telephones before: to swap displays or put photos 
behind the LCD when the LCDs didn't offer background images yet. I can not say 
that it is in any respect a dayly routine for me to work on telephone 
hardware.

The manual is quite to the point: the procedure seems quite elaborate, but 
that is because every step got a photo showing where to put your fingers and 
other tools. 

The display is indeed the trickiest part: there are those conductive pads 
between the display and the motherboard, that do not stick but get in the way 
anyway while cutting through the double sided tabe that holds the display in 
place. The wires are fine, but not more so than you'd expect from such a 
device. 

I might have taken half an hour, but not much longer. If I did it a second 
time, it would be much closer to 15 minutes. There is really not so much to 
it, all parts are made to fit easily and are also taken apart quite easily.

Boudewijn  

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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-31 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Hi,

Am 30.12.2011 um 23:14 schrieb Gerald A:

>>> For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to 
>>> get a working phone
>>> "with possibilities". I want the completed package, then end result. The 
>>> neo was shipped with the slogan
> This takes approx. 15 minutes. Rarely more. And we have an installation 
> service if you don't want to
> DIY (I would appreciate if there will come up local resellers or hacking 
> groups in your area).
> 
> Does this 15 minutes require soldering skills? (I think it does).

No it doesn't. It is just some mechanical adaptations.

I think Sean some years ago encouraged to open the Freerunner and
take a look inside...

> I personally am not averse to trying to solder -- it's something I want to 
> learn more about. But your "average linux
> geek" probably doesn't want to. But they still might be enamored by the 
> prospect of an open phone.

The most tricky part is to peel off the LCD module from the PCB without
breaking the glass or disrupting the fine cables. An alternative is to glue
a new to the GTA04 board and just swap the complete GTA02-module
with a GTA04 module.

A complete description of the steps is in chapter 4 of the GTA04 manual:

http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/page/Manual

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Re: [Gta04-owner] [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-31 Thread Glenn


On 30/12/11 07.39, Alishams Hassam wrote:

Hello All,

Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means.


Me2 ;-)


1. Online and print magazines, news websites:


When GTA02 was sold and someone needed an ARM testboard, I recommended 
GTA02 and http://www.embeddedartists.com/ boards to people on 
news://comp.arch.embedded news://linux.debian.ports.arm and 
news://comp.sys.arm , that wanted a fast ARM board to play with.


The reason is that with GTA02 you might end up with a useable access 
point or phone - instead of a standard board. Bonus: GTA02 has wi-fi and 
GSM modem!


A complete GTA04 has a lot more! It even has built-in UPS!

-

In the same sense a complete GTA04 could be marketed as a open ARM-based 
test phone (almost no NDA needed) to technical department of 
universities, colleges and other teaching schools.


-

But the schematic and chip specifications/documentation should be very 
easily accessible (direct updated links), so hard core freaks can 
evaluate the ARM board in an instant.


A lot of easy low-level software (not only Linux, but e.g. also FreeRTOS 
or a short C or C++ program demonstrating GTA04 funtionality "here is 
how the LED/wi-fi/IR/USB/SD-card/LCD/camera turns on/is used, like 
embedded(-)artists..."), must be available so technically oriented 
people can "wrestle" with it by themself or in education.


-

Then you/we will have a lot more technically oriented people working 
with the phone hardware and software and with more suggestions.


Glenn


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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Gerald A

Hi Nikolaus,

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller  wrote:

> Am 30.12.2011 um 19:22 schrieb Ed Kapitein:
> On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote:
>
> What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended
> customer?
>
> Currently: those who own a GTA01 and GTA02 or are willing to give it away.
>
> There are approx. 18000 units out there waiting for a potential upgrade to
> a
> GTA04 board. And we just have 56 group tour orders within 6 weeks. This is
> 0,3 %...
>

 Well, 18000 is a pittance of the 4.6 billion cell phones, and a fraction
of the
500,000 smart phones.

Since part of the issue seems to be attracting numbers, I was thinking of
ways to
attract people who might otherwise might not be interested or be able to.

> For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04
> to get a working phone
> "with possibilities". I want the completed package, then end result. The
> neo was shipped with the slogan
>
> This takes approx. 15 minutes. Rarely more. And we have an installation
> service if you don't want to
> DIY (I would appreciate if there will come up local resellers or hacking
> groups in your area).
>

Does this 15 minutes require soldering skills? (I think it does).
I personally am not averse to trying to solder -- it's something I want to
learn more about. But your "average linux
geek" probably doesn't want to. But they still might be enamored by the
prospect of an open phone.

Well, to me it looks as if you own a GTA01 that is not used? Maybe you
> could think about donating

it to someone who urgently wants to have a new case for a GTA04?
>

I actually do hack on it once in a while. I had written lots of primitive
utilities for it, but never got it
working as an actual phone.

>   My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent
>> money, lets say 100 euro, and  with that money build the phones.
>
> Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different aspects of
>> the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more mature.
>
> i guess you must be Dutch to come up with a micro credit plan in
>> west-europe ;-)
>>
>
I'm not Dutch, but I like the idea of micro-funding, and I am aware of
micro-credit.

> Well, the problem is not to get a credit to produce the devices in
> advance.
>

My "block" system, which is really close to the micro-funding that someone
referred to on Kickstarter.

But what about this idea: Group Tour orders with partial payment.
>

My idea/kickstarter would allow something like this -- "here, let me give
you some money, and
return 'something' of value in the future". It allows even smallish
donations -- in kickstarters case,
they give you a keychain. I'd rather allow it to be used against a future
product, like a complete phone.
I guess you could sell power adapters for ~$10, which if people didn't top
up you could give away.

> What do those of you think, who still hesitate to subscribe to the group
> tour to upgrade
> your existing GTA01 or GTA02?
>
> PS: Taking too much credit is what the Greek state did do wrong. They are
> no
> longer able to pay back neither the interest rates nor the credit without
> subscribing
> to another credit.
>

The "Group Tour" is now advertising a price of 474Euro (approx $600CDN).
For this, I'm getting
some neat upgrade bits, and I have to pitch in my $300+ Neo. For this
price, I could buy two
non-open but complete iPads.

It's just passing through the holidays and things are tight budget wise
here, so I'm still waiting
to see. However, I'd pledge $100 for a more complete device "later", even
though it might never
get to completion.

As for your Greek example -- almost every country in the world uses credit
to finance their
Government. And this goes for business too -- in one way or another, most
businesses use
credit. Politics aside, just as you have to manage how much power your
chips consume, just
as you manage the number and purpose of your chips, credit has to be used
wisely. And
wisely used, both chips and credit can yield wonderful results.

My idea wasn't pure credit, though -- it was a kind of investment in a
future device, rather
then the "kit" of today. My thought process was to move the game forward,
the "kit" is
the first step, but the eventual "phone" is what people are after. If you
let people pledge
towards what they want, you can fund what you need to get there.

I thank you for your ideas and response -- and I hope that we'll get your
kit out the door,
either with or without my idea.

Thanks!
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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Brian

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:22:55 +0100
Ed Kapitein  wrote:

> On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
> > mailto:h...@goldelico.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very
> > low marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are
> > still happy to report every small move at no cost...
> >
> >
> > ... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even "rumors"
> > become big news.
> >
> > While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if
> > you are trying to have everything "open".
> >
> > What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the
> > intended customer?
> >
> > I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at
> > least for the first rev of the GTA04,
> > it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the
> > focus.
> >
> > There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is
> > "free-er" then Android or Apple let you be.
> > But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you
> > buy? It's definitely outside the
> > mainstream.
> >
> > Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think
> > it's a great cause -- I was one of the early
> > GTA01 (neo) buyers.
> >
> > For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a
> > GTA04 to get a working phone
> > "with possibilities". I want the completed package, then end result.
> > The neo was shipped with the slogan
> > "some assembly required", which gave you the right idea. I thought
> > that it just needed a good software
> > stack to make things great. (I still do).
> >
> > What might work is having people invest, rather then "buy"
> > something. That's something I could wrap
> > my head around. "Make the open phone happen -- Invest now". Don't
> > make it complicated or expensive.
> > "$10 in one 'block'" kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the
> > "investor" to see a completed phone,
> > if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the "open
> > phone" might never come to market,
> > but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate
> > with the big boys.
> >
> > The issue here is what is in it for the "little guy", and I'd be a
> > bit fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but
> > what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also
> > don't know the legal side of calling
> > it an "investment" (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this
> > would be simpler to "market", and
> > would have better funding potential then selling the kit.
> >
> > As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit
> > or two -- but they would either end up
> > as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm
> > not willing to put money into it. But 
> > I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in
> > isolation.
> >
> > Thanks
> 
> My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent
> money, lets say 100 euro, and  with that money build the phones.
> Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different
> aspects of the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more mature.
> I think success stories with video clips on youtube will convince more
> people to buy a GTA04 then good stories on paper.
> And the microcreditters can either get their money back once all
> phones are sold, or can get a 110 euro discount when they buy a GTA04.
> 
> Just my thoughts..
> 
> Kind regards,
> Ed
> 
> PS
> i guess you must be Dutch to come up with a micro credit plan in
> west-europe ;-)
> 
> 

Perhaps Kickstarter[1] would be an option here. It's a crowdsource
funded site where creative projects of many kinds, including open
hardware[2], can get the funding needed to keep them alive. I'm not
suggesting it's a panacea for all the hurdles involved but there are
quite a few success stories.

I think the OM community probably has an edge in competing for funding
due to it's age and the fact that the new hardware already exists. It
would be nice to see at the very least a 'hardware hacker kit' with the
basics as suggested here by Neal:

> I suspect that people who are buying a GTA04 at this stage are not
> looking to use it as a phone immediately--they probably want to hack
> on it.  These people don't need a phone case.  But, they do need an
> LCD to get the experience.  My proposal would be to create a hackers
> package: a GTA04 board, LCD and a big bulky case that could be placed
> next to a workstation.  Even better would be if there is a commitment
> to provide a case once it is ready (do you have a time frame for
> this?). 

Eventually the project could graduate to a fully complete phone with a
case based upon the old one or ideally a new case with a better LCD
and qwerty keyboard.

Brian

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstarter
[2]http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/open%20hardware?ref=s

Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Hi Gerald, Ed (I try to merge thoughts a little...)

Am 30.12.2011 um 19:22 schrieb Ed Kapitein:

> On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low
>> marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are
>> still happy to report every small move at no cost...
>> 
>> ... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even "rumors" become big 
>> news.
>> 
>> While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if you are 
>> trying to have everything "open".
>> 
>> What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended 
>> customer?

Currently: those who own a GTA01 and GTA02 or are willing to give it away.

There are approx. 18000 units out there waiting for a potential upgrade to a
GTA04 board. And we just have 56 group tour orders within 6 weeks. This is
0,3 %...

>> 
>> I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at least for 
>> the first rev of the GTA04,
>> it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the focus.

Not necessarily. The hardware is done and has almost been proven to work.

There may be bugs inside we will learn about only in the future, but there is a 
core
team to iron this out. Not the community nor the owner has to do that.

The main complaint with the GTA01 and GTA02 was that the processor is very
slow and the Glamo is crap. And, there is no UMTS. And it has no USB 2.0.

Now we finally have the GTA04: a motherboard replacement just doing
that with 800 MHz Arm-Cortex A8, 3D graphics accelerator, integrated DSP
coprocessor, and 14 MBit UMTS. Ready to be used by the linux geeks...

So it is a solution to the main complaints with the GTA01/02.

>> 
>> There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is "free-er" then 
>> Android or Apple let you be.
>> But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you buy? 
>> It's definitely outside the

>> mainstream.

Only those who don't own a GTA01 or GTA02 yet have to buy something
(either a used GTA01/02 or hopefully soon a case kit).

All others don't really have a reason to keep their GTA01/02 and have a
GTA04 in parallel.

>> Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think it's a 
>> great cause -- I was one of the early
>> GTA01 (neo) buyers.
>> 
>> For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to 
>> get a working phone
>> "with possibilities". I want the completed package, then end result. The neo 
>> was shipped with the slogan

This takes approx. 15 minutes. Rarely more. And we have an installation service 
if you don't want to
DIY (I would appreciate if there will come up local resellers or hacking groups 
in your area).

>> "some assembly required", which gave you the right idea. I thought that it 
>> just needed a good software
>> stack to make things great. (I still do).

There is a lot of progress towards this. Neil Brown has almost everything 
working in a Linux 3.2 kernel.

And QtMoko brings almost everything to the User Interface. So what is missing? 
Just some weeks of
ironing out the final bugs. And more OS options to be ported. If the developers 
keep the speed (these
activities did not start before October this year!), it will be perfect when 
the Group Tour devices are ready to ship...

>> 
>> What might work is having people invest, rather then "buy" something. That's 
>> something I could wrap
>> my head around. "Make the open phone happen -- Invest now". Don't make it 
>> complicated or expensive.
>> "$10 in one 'block'" kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the 
>> "investor" to see a completed phone,
>> if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the "open phone" 
>> might never come to market,
>> but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate with 
>> the big boys.
>> 
>> The issue here is what is in it for the "little guy", and I'd be a bit 
>> fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but
>> what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also don't 
>> know the legal side of calling
>> it an "investment" (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this would be 
>> simpler to "market", and
>> would have better funding potential then selling the kit.
>> 
>> As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit or two 
>> -- but they would either end up
>> as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm not 
>> willing to put money into it. But 
>> I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in isolation.

Well, to me it looks as if you own a GTA01 that is not used? Maybe you could 
think about donating
it to someone who urgently wants to have a new case for a GTA04?

>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
> 
> My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent money, 
> lets say 100 euro, and  with that money build the phones.
> Once

Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Ed Kapitein

On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
> mailto:h...@goldelico.com>> wrote:
>
>
> The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low
> marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are
> still happy to report every small move at no cost...
>
>
> ... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even "rumors" become
> big news.
>
> While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if you
> are trying to have everything "open".
>
> What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the
> intended customer?
>
> I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at
> least for the first rev of the GTA04,
> it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the focus.
>
> There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is "free-er"
> then Android or Apple let you be.
> But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you
> buy? It's definitely outside the
> mainstream.
>
> Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think it's
> a great cause -- I was one of the early
> GTA01 (neo) buyers.
>
> For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a
> GTA04 to get a working phone
> "with possibilities". I want the completed package, then end result.
> The neo was shipped with the slogan
> "some assembly required", which gave you the right idea. I thought
> that it just needed a good software
> stack to make things great. (I still do).
>
> What might work is having people invest, rather then "buy" something.
> That's something I could wrap
> my head around. "Make the open phone happen -- Invest now". Don't make
> it complicated or expensive.
> "$10 in one 'block'" kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the
> "investor" to see a completed phone,
> if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the "open
> phone" might never come to market,
> but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate
> with the big boys.
>
> The issue here is what is in it for the "little guy", and I'd be a bit
> fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but
> what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also
> don't know the legal side of calling
> it an "investment" (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this
> would be simpler to "market", and
> would have better funding potential then selling the kit.
>
> As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit
> or two -- but they would either end up
> as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm
> not willing to put money into it. But 
> I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in
> isolation.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent
money, lets say 100 euro, and  with that money build the phones.
Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different aspects
of the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more mature.
I think success stories with video clips on youtube will convince more
people to buy a GTA04 then good stories on paper.
And the microcreditters can either get their money back once all phones
are sold, or can get a 110 euro discount when they buy a GTA04.

Just my thoughts..

Kind regards,
Ed

PS
i guess you must be Dutch to come up with a micro credit plan in
west-europe ;-)


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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Gerald A

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller  wrote:

>
> The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low
> marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are
> still happy to report every small move at no cost...
>

... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even "rumors" become big
news.

While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if you are
trying to have everything "open".

What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended
customer?

I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at least
for the first rev of the GTA04,
it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the focus.

There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is "free-er" then
Android or Apple let you be.
But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you buy?
It's definitely outside the
mainstream.

Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think it's a
great cause -- I was one of the early
GTA01 (neo) buyers.

For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to
get a working phone
"with possibilities". I want the completed package, then end result. The
neo was shipped with the slogan
"some assembly required", which gave you the right idea. I thought that it
just needed a good software
stack to make things great. (I still do).

What might work is having people invest, rather then "buy" something.
That's something I could wrap
my head around. "Make the open phone happen -- Invest now". Don't make it
complicated or expensive.
"$10 in one 'block'" kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the
"investor" to see a completed phone,
if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the "open phone"
might never come to market,
but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate with
the big boys.

The issue here is what is in it for the "little guy", and I'd be a bit
fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but
what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also don't
know the legal side of calling
it an "investment" (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this would
be simpler to "market", and
would have better funding potential then selling the kit.

As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit or two
-- but they would either end up
as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm not
willing to put money into it. But
I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in
isolation.

Thanks
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Re: [Gta04-owner] [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread rixed

-[ Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 02:56:50PM +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller ]
> 
> Am 30.12.2011 um 10:27 schrieb ri...@happyleptic.org:
> 
> >> Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot
> >> interfere with the O/S is a great example.
> > 
> > If you are refering to how it was made impossible to replace the
> > non-free firmware by a free one, then I wouldn't advertise this too
> > loudly :)
> 
> (... badly needed explanations ...)
> So please help that others (outside the community) are correctly
> understanding this aspect.

Thank you very much for taking some time to clarify this issue.
I will redirect people to this post whenever I heard about this
again in the future.


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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread rixed

> > 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974.
> > This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting
> > dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit?
> 
> This isn't strictly true. The FR/Neo1974 is certainly the easiest way to get 
> screen, case, antennae, speakers, vibro-motor etc. but suitable parts can be 
> sourced separately and a case made. It may be worth supplying a list of 
> suitable alternative parts and sources, or even a parts kit, to make it 
> easier 
> for people without a donor phone.

Or to make it possible to use the gta04 while keeping the old gta02 ! :)
What I really would like to is a hardware shopping list + some sort of
tutorial on how to make use of the gta04 as a dev board (not a working
phone), much like one would use a beagleboard or pandaboard.


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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread urodelo

Marketing strategies can also be planned for two different targets:

1st: developers, skilled users, hackers, geeks, etc, etc. In this phase
marketing is mean to publish, inform and possible sale the product to
those interested in the above activities

2nd: once the product will be stable enough and usable for an average
iphone user, then a marketing strategy could be planned to reach the "big"
market.

In my opinion, without the first, it would be much more difficult for our
community to compete (ok, I know this is such a big word..) with
mainstream products. IF the intention is really to get a phone comparable
with other well known products, there's the need of something stable and
usable, and this can be reached only with the mass help of developers
testers, etc. But if they don't know about it... Mybe talking properly
about marketing for the first phase isn't strongly right, however the
meaning is to spread the voice, inform, publish to that target which could
be interested at the beginning. Therefore I agree with Hassam when he
talks about "marketing strategies". I just wanted to point out something.

imho,
urodelo

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:09:10 +0100, Martix wrote:

+1 We need to offer complete working smartphone before doing massive
marketing to public. #1 mistake of Openmoko Inc. was unstable software
stack, switching toolkits (GTK+, Qt, EFL) and hardware bugs. I think, we
should provide stable and tested development platform (stable
distribution, SDK and nice documentation), then write on various MLs and
attract mobile developers, come up with some fancy product name (GTA04
is just codename) and then start broader marketing on various news
websites.

Best Regards,

Martix

Dne 30.12.2011 14:43, Fernando napsal(a):

Hi,

I have a GTA02 which I am using only for NeronGPS. I need a mobile for
a few calls and SMS a month. Some months ago it did not receive an SMS
and I have no idea why. I bought a 20EUR Samsung phone, put the chip
in, and got the SMS.

So, why should I be "excited" to buy a GTA04 for the price tag of a
full android? I don't even know if I will be able to reliably receive
the occasional SMS?

Just a question, no ranting.

BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without
a full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small
market of GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a
reliable phone.

Regards,
Fernando

On Dec 30, 2011 06:39 "Alishams Hassam"
wrote:

Hello All,

Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means. I only
wish to throw ideas out there and implement what I have time for. If
there are any marketing experts on the list (heck, if you're even
just interested), please speak up! The only experience you really
need is the ability to write in your native language. I'm only
familiar with English sources but anything will work. Let's
coordinate efforts on the wiki, I'm sure Openmoko won't mind us
piggybacking off their wiki ;p
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Marketing_GTA04

Things to mention:

1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974.
This should serve as a request to get people who have these
collecting dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more
explicit?

2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR.

3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality
parts, in small runs - hence the price tag.
This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap.

4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as
possible.
Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot
interfere with the O/S is a great example.

Areas to Attack:

1. Online and print magazines, news websites:

We need to get the word out about the GTA04. I find myself agreeing
with the claim that he GTA04 isn't well known about. This appeared on
Slashdot early this month
http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/12/01/1910213/openmokos-freerunner-rises-from-the-ashes
No mention of a pre-order. There was an article in late July on the
Salon blog:
http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/
Phornix
also did an article
on
Openmoko just a few days ago, but only one line about the GTA04 :<
People are not excited, so let's make some noise! There are many
other tech news sites out there. Ars Technica
comes to mind, Lifehacker
and Make would get a
kick out of the board switching procedure, Wired is an older popular
magazine, Phoronix I'm sure will do one
focused on the GTA04 and 2600 for the geeks who
like print (someone please write a cool article for those guys - I
promise you they'll publish it)! Jeez, I almost forgot

Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller


Am 30.12.2011 um 14:53 schrieb Matthias Apitz:

> El día Friday, December 30, 2011 a las 01:43:12PM +, Fernando escribió:
> 
>> BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a
>> full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of
>> GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone.
>> 
> 
> I strongly disagree. Most of the times Marketing is done by companies
> without having a full featured product, sometimes even without having a
> product at all, but just an idea and just to test the market; I'm used to
^

This needs to have a different product selling very well, so that there
is a big marketing budget available to "burn".

The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low
marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are
still happy to report every small move at no cost...


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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Martix

Best Regards,

Martix

Dne 30.12.2011 14:43, Fernando napsal(a):

Hi,

So, why should I be "excited" to buy a GTA04 for the price tag of a
full android? I don't even know if I will be able to reliably receive
the occasional SMS?

Just a question, no ranting.

Regards,
Fernando

On Dec 30, 2011 06:39 "Alishams Hassam"
wrote:

Hello All,

Things to mention:

1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974.
This should serve as a request to get people who have these
collecting dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more
explicit?

2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR.

3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality
parts, in small runs - hence the price tag.

This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap.

4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as
possible.
Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot
interfere with the O/S is a great example.

Areas to Attack:

1. Online and print magazines, news websites:

Traditionally a press release is sent out. I've never written one
before and don't particularly want to start with this. Is there
anyone who has written one before?

2. Mailing lists of FOSS projects:

This area cannot be done with a press release blast. Well it can, but
I don't think the subscribers will appreciate spam. Ideally each of
us can write a post about the GTA04 on any other FOSS lists we are
on. I'll get the ball rolling with a post to the Debian user list
soon.The other big relevant list to hit is the LXDE related mailing
lists: lxde-list >, lubuntu-desktop
> Plasma active could be
another one, assuming it runs on the hardware, as with gnome-shell
gnome-shell-l...@gnome.org

Let's get a list of mailings lists going on a wiki page.

3. Free Geeks

Re: Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Fernando

On Dec 30, 2011 13:53 "Matthias Apitz"  wrote:

> El día Friday, December 30, 2011 a las 01:43:12PM +, Fernando
> escribió:
> 
> > BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing
> > without a
> > full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small
> > market of
> > GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone.
> > 
> 
> I strongly disagree. Most of the times Marketing is done by companies
> without having a full featured product, sometimes even without having
> a
> product at all, but just an idea and just to test the market; I'm used
> to
> say to those markeing guys: Hey, I have the money here with me, can I
> take your gadget withme right now? :-)
> 
> matthias
> 
> 
What would be the sales pitch then? An Arduino-like product for people
to make their own custom mobiles?

Fernando
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Re: [Gta04-owner] [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Dr . H . Nikolaus Schaller


Am 30.12.2011 um 10:27 schrieb ri...@happyleptic.org:

>> Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot
>> interfere with the O/S is a great example.
> 
> If you are refering to how it was made impossible to replace the
> non-free firmware by a free one, then I wouldn't advertise this too
> loudly :)

???

It appears that there is a common misunderstanding about the GTA04
capabilities and WiFi firmware. Let me clarify at least for these two lists.

You can always replace the libertas firmware. It is stored in /lib/firmware
and loaded by the MMC/SDIO driver kernel module as soon as it identifies
that the WiFi chip needs the libertas driver.

What you are probably referring to was a proposal by RMS/FSF to
isolate that in hardware for a special variant that FSF could endorse
(maybe with a different name).

There did no appear a volunteer to build a prototype and demonstrate
that it is working, useful and improves freedom at all.

Without a prototype, we can't even think about adding such a thing to
hardware and give it to FSF for promotion.

And, it was never intended to become part of the standard GTA04
which can live IMHO very well without a FSF endorsement, although
an FSF endorsement would automatically give much more public attention.

The better technological way was and is to write an open source
replacement for the firmware and store it as usual in the file system.

Unfortunately, that firmware discussion had gained its own life on
some forums we don't read regularily and was based on assumptions
and prejudices instead of ever asking the project team about the
status... So the "story" was out and impossible to retract.

So please help that others (outside the community) are correctly
understanding this aspect.

Nikolaus


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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Matthias Apitz

El día Friday, December 30, 2011 a las 01:43:12PM +, Fernando escribió:

> BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a
> full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of
> GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone.
> 

I strongly disagree. Most of the times Marketing is done by companies
without having a full featured product, sometimes even without having a
product at all, but just an idea and just to test the market; I'm used to
say to those markeing guys: Hey, I have the money here with me, can I
take your gadget withme right now? :-)

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz
e  - w http://www.unixarea.de/
UNIX since V7 on PDP-11, UNIX on mainframe since ESER 1055 (IBM /370)
UNIX on x86 since SVR4.2 UnixWare 2.1.2, FreeBSD since 2.2.5

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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Fernando

Hi,

I have a GTA02 which I am using only for NeronGPS. I need a mobile for a
few calls and SMS a month. Some months ago it did not receive an SMS and
I have no idea why. I bought a 20€ Samsung phone, put the chip in, and
got the SMS.

So, why should I be "excited" to buy a GTA04 for the price tag of a full
android? I don't even know if I will be able to reliably receive the
occasional SMS?

Just a question, no ranting.

BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a
full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of
GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone.

Regards,
Fernando


On Dec 30, 2011 06:39 "Alishams Hassam" 
wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means. I only
> wish to throw ideas out there and implement what I have time for. If
> there are any marketing experts on the list (heck, if you're even just
> interested), please speak up! The only experience you really need is
> the ability to write in your native language. I'm only familiar with
> English sources but anything will work. Let's coordinate efforts on
> the wiki, I'm sure Openmoko won't mind us piggybacking off their wiki
> ;p 
> 
> Things to mention:
> 
> 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974.
> This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting
> dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit?
> 
> 2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR.
> 
> 3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality
> parts, in small runs - hence the price tag.
> This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap.
> 
> 4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as
> possible.
> Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot
> interfere with the O/S is a great example.
> 
> Areas to Attack:
> 
> 1. Online and print magazines, news websites:
> 
> We need to get the word out about the GTA04. I find myself agreeing
> with the claim that he GTA04 isn't well known about. This appeared on
> Slashdot early this month
>  r-rises-from-the-ashes> No mention of a pre-order. There was an
> article in late July on the Salon blog:
> http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/
>  >Phornix  also did an article
> > on
> >Openmoko just a few days ago, but only one line about the GTA04 :<
> >People are not excited, so let's make some noise! There are many
> >other tech news sites out there. Ars Technica
> >comes to mind, Lifehacker
> > and Make  would get a
> >kick out of the board switching procedure, Wired is an older popular
> >magazine, Phoronix  I'm sure will do one
> >focused on the GTA04 and 2600 for the geeks who
> >like print (someone please write a cool article for those guys - I
> >promise you they'll publish it)! Jeez, I almost forgot to mention
> >
> 
> Traditionally a press release is sent out. I've never written one
> before and don't particularly want to start with this. Is there anyone
> who has written one before?
> 
> 2. Mailing lists of FOSS projects:
> 
> This area cannot be done with a press release blast. Well it can, but
> I don't think the subscribers will appreciate spam. Ideally each of us
> can write a post about the GTA04 on any other FOSS lists we are on.
> I'll get the ball rolling with a post to the Debian user list soon.The
> other big relevant list to hit is the LXDE related mailing lists:
> lxde-list <>, lubuntu-desktop
> <> Plasma active could be another
> one, assuming it runs on the hardware, as with gnome-shell
> 
> 
> Let's get a list of mailings lists going on a wiki page.
> 
> 3. Free Geeks
> 
> Free Geek's are organizations dedicated to ethical recycling. They are
> all independently run so let's gather a list of each one's main
> mailing list and start a discussion. Starting points include how
> replacing a board is much more ecological than full new cell phone.
> The challenges with such an approach, and perhaps how FOSS helps to
> ensure old devices see much more support than their counterparts. I'll
> be updating the wiki with some adresses as I collect them. For now,
> Free Geek Vancouver: 
> 
> 4. Hack Spaces
> 
> Hackers love linux and tinkering! We can organize with Hack Spaces to
> help less hardware oriented users like myself with
> supervision/teaching of the board swap. I'll also be adding them to
> the wiki, please help collect addresses if you're too shy to post.
> Vancouver Hack Space: 
> 
> 5. LUGS
> 
> Linux User Groups are *not* dead. They're

Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Al Johnson

On Thursday 29 December 2011 22:39:01 Alishams Hassam wrote:
> Things to mention:
> 
> 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974.
> This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting
> dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit?

This isn't strictly true. The FR/Neo1974 is certainly the easiest way to get 
screen, case, antennae, speakers, vibro-motor etc. but suitable parts can be 
sourced separately and a case made. It may be worth supplying a list of 
suitable alternative parts and sources, or even a parts kit, to make it easier 
for people without a donor phone.

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Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-30 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Great & Thanks!

Although i have some professional background in product management/marketing I 
simply have no time left to care for marketing... And marketing communication 
without a product is pointless. So I did devote my time mostly on getting the 
product into our hands.

So if we find enough volunteers to take care of spreading the word outside of 
this community, this would be great for all of us.

Nikolaus


Am 30.12.2011 um 07:39 schrieb Alishams Hassam:

> Hello All, 
> 
> Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means. I only wish to 
> throw ideas out there and implement what I have time for. If there are any 
> marketing experts on the list (heck, if you're even just interested), please 
> speak up! The only experience you really need is the ability to write in your 
> native language. I'm only familiar with English sources but anything will 
> work. Let's coordinate efforts on the wiki, I'm sure Openmoko won't mind us 
> piggybacking off their wiki ;p http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Marketing_GTA04  
> 
> Things to mention:
> 
> 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974.
> This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting dust, 
> selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit?
> 
> 2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR.
> 
> 3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality parts, in 
> small runs - hence the price tag.
> This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap. 
> 
> 4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as 
> possible.
> Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot interfere 
> with the O/S is a great example. 
> 
> Areas to Attack:
> 
> 1. Online and print magazines, news websites:
> 
> We need to get the word out about the GTA04. I find myself agreeing with the 
> claim that he GTA04 isn't well known about. This appeared on Slashdot early 
> this month 
> http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/12/01/1910213/openmokos-freerunner-rises-from-the-ashes
>  No mention of a pre-order. There was an article in late July on the Salon 
> blog: http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/  
> Phornix also did an article on Openmoko just a few days ago, but only one 
> line about the GTA04 :< People are not excited, so let's make some noise! 
> There are many other tech news sites out there. Ars Technica comes to mind, 
> Lifehacker and Make would get a kick out of the board switching procedure, 
> Wired is an older popular magazine, Phoronix  I'm sure will do one focused on 
> the GTA04 and 2600 for the geeks who like print (someone please write a cool 
> article for those guys - I promise you they'll publish it)! Jeez, I almost 
> forgot to mention http://lwn.net/

Someone here, who has a good wire to www.linuxfordevices.com?

> 
> Traditionally a press release is sent out. I've never written one before and 
> don't particularly want to start with this. Is there anyone who has written 
> one before?
> 
> 2. Mailing lists of FOSS projects:
> 
> This area cannot be done with a press release blast. Well it can, but I don't 
> think the subscribers will appreciate spam. Ideally each of us can write a 
> post about the GTA04 on any other FOSS lists we are on. I'll get the ball 
> rolling with a post to the Debian user list soon.The other big relevant list 
> to hit is the LXDE related mailing lists: lxde-list 
> , lubuntu-desktop 
>  Plasma active could be another one, 
> assuming it runs on the hardware, as with gnome-shell 
> gnome-shell-l...@gnome.org 
> 
> Let's get a list of mailings lists going on a wiki page.
> 
> 3. Free Geeks
> 
> Free Geek's are organizations dedicated to ethical recycling. They are all 
> independently run so let's gather a list of each one's main mailing list and 
> start a discussion. Starting points include how replacing a board is much 
> more ecological than full new cell phone. The challenges with such an 
> approach, and perhaps how FOSS helps to ensure old devices see much more 
> support than their counterparts. I'll be updating the wiki with some adresses 
> as I collect them. For now, Free Geek Vancouver: 
> fg-gene...@lists.freegeekvancouver.org
> 
> 4. Hack Spaces
> 
> Hackers love linux and tinkering! We can organize with Hack Spaces to help 
> less hardware oriented users like myself with supervision/teaching of the 
> board swap. I'll also be adding them to the wiki, please help collect 
> addresses if you're too shy to post. Vancouver Hack Space: 
> vhs-gene...@lists.hackspace.ca
>  
> 5. LUGS
> 
> Linux User Groups are *not* dead. They're less active than they used to be, 
> however at Linux Con North America, the president of the CLUG (Calgary LUG), 
> gave a speech and is trying to reinvigorate things. This is usually full of 
> people who have disposable income and love to have cool geeky things. The 
> VanLUG address van...@robomod.net
> 
> 6. Kickstarter / similar services
>

[Marketing] Ideas / Plan

2011-12-29 Thread Alishams Hassam

Hello All,

Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means. I only wish to
throw ideas out there and implement what I have time for. If there are any
marketing experts on the list (heck, if you're even just interested),
please speak up! The only experience you really need is the ability to
write in your native language. I'm only familiar with English sources but
anything will work. Let's coordinate efforts on the wiki, I'm sure Openmoko
won't mind us piggybacking off their wiki ;p
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Marketing_GTA04

Things to mention:

1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974.
This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting
dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit?

2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR.

3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality parts,
in small runs - hence the price tag.
This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap.

4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as
possible.
Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot
interfere with the O/S is a great example.

Areas to Attack:

1. Online and print magazines, news websites:

Phornix also did an
articleon
Openmoko just a few days ago, but only one line about the GTA04 :<
People are not excited, so let's make some noise! There are many other tech
news sites out there. Ars Technica comes to mind,
Lifehacker and Make would
get a kick out of the board switching procedure, Wired is an older popular
magazine, Phoronix I'm sure will do one focused
on the GTA04 and 2600 for the geeks who like print
(someone please write a cool article for those guys - I promise you they'll
publish it)! Jeez, I almost forgot to mention http://lwn.net/

Traditionally a press release is sent out. I've never written one before
and don't particularly want to start with this. Is there anyone who has
written one before?

2. Mailing lists of FOSS projects:

This area cannot be done with a press release blast. Well it can, but I
don't think the subscribers will appreciate spam. Ideally each of us can
write a post about the GTA04 on any other FOSS lists we are on. I'll get
the ball rolling with a post to the Debian user list soon.The other big
relevant list to hit is the LXDE related mailing lists: lxde-list <
lxde-l...@lists.sourceforge.net>, lubuntu-desktop <
lubuntu-desk...@lists.launchpad.net> Plasma active could be another one,
assuming it runs on the hardware, as with gnome-shell
gnome-shell-l...@gnome.org

Let's get a list of mailings lists going on a wiki page.

3. Free Geeks

Free Geek's are organizations dedicated to ethical recycling. They are all
independently run so let's gather a list of each one's main mailing list
and start a discussion. Starting points include how replacing a board is
much more ecological than full new cell phone. The challenges with such an
approach, and perhaps how FOSS helps to ensure old devices see much more
support than their counterparts. I'll be updating the wiki with some
adresses as I collect them. For now, Free Geek Vancouver:
fg-gene...@lists.freegeekvancouver.org

4. Hack Spaces

Hackers love linux and tinkering! We can organize with Hack Spaces to help
less hardware oriented users like myself with supervision/teaching of the
board swap. I'll also be adding them to the wiki, please help collect
addresses if you're too shy to post. Vancouver Hack Space:
vhs-gene...@lists.hackspace.ca

5. LUGS

Linux User Groups are *not* dead. They're less active than they used to be,
however at Linux Con North America, the president of the CLUG (Calgary
LUG), gave a speech and is trying to reinvigorate things. This is usually
full of people who have disposable income and love to have cool geeky
things. The VanLUG address van...@robomod.net

6. Kickstarter / similar services

Perhaps funding for a case for the phones can come form these?

Phew, that's all I can think of for now. I'll be updating
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Marketing_GTA04 as time permits. Please reply
to the thread, submit ideas, constructive criticism, or just show you're
listening!

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