Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out! (Legal status)
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Onenonen...@free.fr wrote: Alex, could you be more specific, I am not sure to understand what you have in mind? Are you wondering if we could log cells from other operators with only one phone? Exactly. I don't know alot about GSM. On one hand, you can see the other networks. On the other, there's a registration process to connect to those networks so even if it were possible to build a device to collect data unauthenticaed, the Calypso probably doesn't have that functionality. We have tried this with FR and firmware moko11 with Joerg Reisenweber: no SIM card, and try to see neighbour cells. We tried to see if FSO was able to give some output through monitoring interface. But it did not work. yeah I tried with a SIM that was expired (1year inactivity on a pre-paid SIM -- SIM gets deactivated) it said SOS only but openBmap could see anything didn't try AT commands... y ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out! (Legal status)
Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Onenonen...@free.fr wrote: Alex, could you be more specific, I am not sure to understand what you have in mind? Are you wondering if we could log cells from other operators with only one phone? Exactly. I don't know alot about GSM. On one hand, you can see the other networks. On the other, there's a registration process to connect to those networks so even if it were possible to build a device to collect data unauthenticaed, the Calypso probably doesn't have that functionality. We have tried this with FR and firmware moko11 with Joerg Reisenweber: no SIM card, and try to see neighbour cells. We tried to see if FSO was able to give some output through monitoring interface. But it did not work. I have to retry by sending direct AT command though, to be sure if this works or not. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out! (Legal status)
On 28 Jul 2009, at 11:35, Patryk Benderz wrote: ... Hi, did you considered legal side of this work? I mean, do GSM operators in all countries allow us to collect these data? The data is publicly observable, so I don't see how they can claim any copyright upon it. If you're drawing a map you mark a hill upon it, the farmer who owns the hill surely cannot take action against you. (Assume you do not set foot upon the property, but estimate location height of the peak by observation triangulation from other nearby points of known height public accessibility). I don't see that it could be covered by a user agreement, because cell towers advertise their presence to users of other networks. What legal issues do YOU foresee, in which jurisdictions? Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out! (Legal status)
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Strollerstrol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On 28 Jul 2009, at 11:35, Patryk Benderz wrote: ... Hi, did you considered legal side of this work? I mean, do GSM operators in all countries allow us to collect these data? The data is publicly observable, so I don't see how they can claim any copyright upon it. The legality of cellid collecting projects has been discussed before here (and probably also in other communities) Harald Welte mentioned the potential for legal issues in austria: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:39:31 +0200 Subject: Re: locating via GSM, revisited (legal sidenote) Just as a general note added to the discussion: As far as I remember, there has been a highest federal court ruling in Austria some time ago, stating that the location information though present for anyone to read in the intrinsics of the GSM signal, cannot be used without explicit permission by the network operator. The point they made was that the subscription contract between the operator and the customer covers things like voice calls, data calls, GPRS data, etc - but it does not permit the use of GSM signals for locating the handset on the customer side. I don't say I like this, and I also don't say OM should not investigate thsi further. I'm just stating that there are legal issues and somebody inside FIC legal should probably do an extensive survey of the legal situation all over the target market to make sure OM doesn't get into trouble here. (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002507.html) But the technology has moved on since april last year and possibly even google is collecting and submitting back more GSM + GPS data in this way through it's java google maps clients. I don't see that it could be covered by a user agreement, because cell towers advertise their presence to users of other networks. This interests me more! Can we do this with the Calypso GSM module? I only have sim cards for valid for registration on 1 network but there are 3 networks available. I'm happy to not be registered to any network/not have functioning GSM while collecting data about cellids. Is it already showing up the reports you get in the FSO interface? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out! (Legal status)
Hi, thanks for pointing this email from Harald Welte. We have not looked much at the legal side. Because we found a lot of public work (research, etc.) about locating your phone thanks to GSM signals. We also found different projects which uses the GSM data, and log it. And as the data is freely available, we considered it good enough to be used. (not to mention that Google has logged it, and uses it through its Web service). Alex, could you be more specific, I am not sure to understand what you have in mind? Are you wondering if we could log cells from other operators with only one phone? Onen Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002507.html) I don't see that it could be covered by a user agreement, because cell towers advertise their presence to users of other networks. This interests me more! Can we do this with the Calypso GSM module? I only have sim cards for valid for registration on 1 network but there are 3 networks available. I'm happy to not be registered to any network/not have functioning GSM while collecting data about cellids. Is it already showing up the reports you get in the FSO interface? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [openBmap] GSM/GPS logger 0.4.0 is out! (Legal status)
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Onenonen...@free.fr wrote: Alex, could you be more specific, I am not sure to understand what you have in mind? Are you wondering if we could log cells from other operators with only one phone? Exactly. I don't know alot about GSM. On one hand, you can see the other networks. On the other, there's a registration process to connect to those networks so even if it were possible to build a device to collect data unauthenticaed, the Calypso probably doesn't have that functionality. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
