Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
Thanks for the reply Steve, and sorry that I am being a bit confrontational! Of course I do not expect you to do your dirty laundry in public (but it was those lunchtime magnum bottles of champagne on the expense account, wans't it?), but since Andy did make a lot of good and very visible changes, a quick We are sorry to see him go, wish him all luck in his future endeavours and Werner will take over kernel patch management message would have been nice! Thanks, (also for the in buzz fix thread reply - cleared it up for me!) - Gunnar Steve Mosher wrote: Thanks Gunnar, There is one thing we tend to be very tight lipped about. HR issues. That is its very rare that you will find any employee commenting on why a particular individual is not with the company anymore. Some people are let go for performance. Some are let go due to cost cutting. Some choose voluntary separation. Some request to be let go. This is highly personel data, so we try to avoid at all costs talking about these issues. As to the other issues, there are some cases were the situation is so fluid and still in process that commenting really isnt possible. I'll relook at the official buzz fix thread and see if I can add anything helpful. Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes wrote: I love these threads where we talk about company things, like the recent official buzz fix thread, or the secret UI design team IRC conversation, and there is NEVER any response from OpenMoko. I wonder if they see the community mailinglist as COMMUNITY ONLY, i.e. no employees allowed? :) Cheers, - Gunnar Laszlo KREKACS wrote: Dear List, I can't express how sad I'm when I read Andy Green left Openmoko. I do not know why he left (and it is not my business anyway), but I know since Andy was at Openmoko the kernel side began to form shape, and got things work. (suspend? anyone?) I know that every people is replacable at a company, but show me at least two people who made as much commit/day (and code quality) what Andy did. You cant, because there is no black magic here, no marketing mantra, it is all public and we can see who commits what into the git tree. So you just let go the single most valuable people at kernel side. Nice try. I do not know who is responsible for this desicion but I hope they are not the same design team who had fired Rasterman. Oh, and Harald Welte had left Openmoko too, but we never knew the exact details. Who left? At the hardware side: Werner and Joerg at the software side: Mirko and hmm, nobody? Im counting... How long will they stand? If I had enough money I would just hire those people and form a new company and outsource the fabrication to a chinese company (that's exactly what everyone does including apple) and forget about Openmoko (the name was a bad choice anyway ;) I know this letter a bit harsh, but it is intented to address to whom is concerned: Get your head out of your @ss, sit down and think about a bit. You must honor those people who gets the job done! The best would be just hire back those valueable people, and work out how they want to work. Even if they want to form a new (software) company, to make sure this situation will never happen again. I always wanted to buy the next model of openmoko, but I know exactly, if it has bugs (and surely it will), never or really slowly will be fixed (as the current(=everyone gets fired) situation shows). And if it will have hardware bugs, they will be never fixed by Openmoko (as the company), and I can just hope that some people offer *their free time and knowledge* and fix the problem UNOFFICIALLY (unless they did not get until fired). Can you imagine where we were today without Andy and Rasterman? I surely can: an unofficial/unsupported qtextended with an unoptimized 2.6.22 kernel. All those nice things came from these (fired) people. I'm afraid of the future. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
There is one thing we tend to be very tight lipped about. HR issues. nobody expects to hear internals, but visible information about staff changes, at least when it affects people being some kind of om's face to community, would help. As to the other issues, there are some cases were the situation is so fluid and still in process that commenting really isnt possible. I'll relook at the official buzz fix thread and see if I can add anything helpful. of course it is problematic. but communication is an important part of community building and community relations. we got those montly community updates, a section like from om, the company, noticing about ongoing issues would be highly apprecaited, i think. there, in short, could be mentioned that important, community visible members of staff are leaving or hired or what you wrote regarding the buzz: tests going on, procedure has been etablished, bids are requested, pondering ways of fixing in field ... so we could rest assured that those things are not forgotten but being worked on (and maybe the wired headset buzzing would have come up again earlier). the heated debates when rasterman left or about the way to handle th buzz fix could maybe have been a lot cooler with a constant flow (or trickle) of information, even if it says we hear you, but we're not quite sure yet, how to procede. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
Gunnar, I didnt consider your post the least bit confrontational. You should see some of the mails I send to folks. I like your suggestion about some sort of farewell announcement. Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes wrote: Thanks for the reply Steve, and sorry that I am being a bit confrontational! Of course I do not expect you to do your dirty laundry in public (but it was those lunchtime magnum bottles of champagne on the expense account, wans't it?), but since Andy did make a lot of good and very visible changes, a quick We are sorry to see him go, wish him all luck in his future endeavours and Werner will take over kernel patch management message would have been nice! Thanks, (also for the in buzz fix thread reply - cleared it up for me!) - Gunnar Steve Mosher wrote: Thanks Gunnar, There is one thing we tend to be very tight lipped about. HR issues. That is its very rare that you will find any employee commenting on why a particular individual is not with the company anymore. Some people are let go for performance. Some are let go due to cost cutting. Some choose voluntary separation. Some request to be let go. This is highly personel data, so we try to avoid at all costs talking about these issues. As to the other issues, there are some cases were the situation is so fluid and still in process that commenting really isnt possible. I'll relook at the official buzz fix thread and see if I can add anything helpful. Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes wrote: I love these threads where we talk about company things, like the recent official buzz fix thread, or the secret UI design team IRC conversation, and there is NEVER any response from OpenMoko. I wonder if they see the community mailinglist as COMMUNITY ONLY, i.e. no employees allowed? :) Cheers, - Gunnar Laszlo KREKACS wrote: Dear List, I can't express how sad I'm when I read Andy Green left Openmoko. I do not know why he left (and it is not my business anyway), but I know since Andy was at Openmoko the kernel side began to form shape, and got things work. (suspend? anyone?) I know that every people is replacable at a company, but show me at least two people who made as much commit/day (and code quality) what Andy did. You cant, because there is no black magic here, no marketing mantra, it is all public and we can see who commits what into the git tree. So you just let go the single most valuable people at kernel side. Nice try. I do not know who is responsible for this desicion but I hope they are not the same design team who had fired Rasterman. Oh, and Harald Welte had left Openmoko too, but we never knew the exact details. Who left? At the hardware side: Werner and Joerg at the software side: Mirko and hmm, nobody? Im counting... How long will they stand? If I had enough money I would just hire those people and form a new company and outsource the fabrication to a chinese company (that's exactly what everyone does including apple) and forget about Openmoko (the name was a bad choice anyway ;) I know this letter a bit harsh, but it is intented to address to whom is concerned: Get your head out of your @ss, sit down and think about a bit. You must honor those people who gets the job done! The best would be just hire back those valueable people, and work out how they want to work. Even if they want to form a new (software) company, to make sure this situation will never happen again. I always wanted to buy the next model of openmoko, but I know exactly, if it has bugs (and surely it will), never or really slowly will be fixed (as the current(=everyone gets fired) situation shows). And if it will have hardware bugs, they will be never fixed by Openmoko (as the company), and I can just hope that some people offer *their free time and knowledge* and fix the problem UNOFFICIALLY (unless they did not get until fired). Can you imagine where we were today without Andy and Rasterman? I surely can: an unofficial/unsupported qtextended with an unoptimized 2.6.22 kernel. All those nice things came from these (fired) people. I'm afraid of the future. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
Inlines below. arne anka wrote: There is one thing we tend to be very tight lipped about. HR issues. nobody expects to hear internals, but visible information about staff changes, at least when it affects people being some kind of om's face to community, would help. A couple other have made this suggestion. I would put it on the responsible manager to announce the changes in his departments coordinated with the person who has a change in status. In Sales and Marketing We had the following changes: 1. Ailsa is no longer with the company 2. Ijen is no longer with the company. 3. Tony Tu is no longer reporting to me. So for right now Sales and Marketing is: 1. Steve 2. Chelsea 3. Jollen and we get assistence from liane who works the web shop. As to the other issues, there are some cases were the situation is so fluid and still in process that commenting really isnt possible. I'll relook at the official buzz fix thread and see if I can add anything helpful. of course it is problematic. but communication is an important part of community building and community relations. we got those montly community updates, a section like from om, the company, noticing about ongoing issues would be highly apprecaited, i think. there, in short, could be mentioned that important, community visible members of staff are leaving or hired or what you wrote regarding the buzz: tests going on, procedure has been etablished, bids are requested, pondering ways of fixing in field ... so we could rest assured that those things are not forgotten but being worked on (and maybe the wired headset buzzing would have come up again earlier). We dont disagree. The issue is always priorities. A while back when we were more heavily staffed in sales and marketing I made it a point to read the community list everyday; however, more and more of my time is now taken up by other matters; At some point I look at my community list and say 600 mails, i never get through that then it goes to 800, then 1000. Luckily, there a few folks who will mail me directly when they see that some big fire needs my attention. You can do that if you like Just dont make it an everyday thing. the heated debates when rasterman left or about the way to handle th buzz fix could maybe have been a lot cooler with a constant flow (or trickle) of information, even if it says we hear you, but we're not quite sure yet, how to procede. understood. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
On 24/03/2009 03:44, Laszlo KREKACS wrote: The best would be just hire back those valueable people, and work out how they want to work. Even if they want to form a new (software) company, to make sure this situation will never happen again. Hello, who told you that he was fired from Openmoko? May be simply he wanted to move to another company. In every case I think is better to stop to speak until we receive a official announce (from OM or from Andy). Michele Renda ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
Michele and others you could try reading what Andy said here: fromAndy Green a...@openmoko.com hide details Mar 23 (17 hours ago) to Nicolas Dufresne nicolas.dufre...@gmail.com cc openmoko-ker...@lists.openmoko.org dateMar 23, 2009 1:32 PM subject Re: [PATCH] Forced shutdown for / Andy mailed-by lists.openmoko.org regards, clare On 3/24/09, Michele Renda michele.re...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/03/2009 03:44, Laszlo KREKACS wrote: The best would be just hire back those valueable people, and work out how they want to work. Even if they want to form a new (software) company, to make sure this situation will never happen again. Hello, who told you that he was fired from Openmoko? May be simply he wanted to move to another company. In every case I think is better to stop to speak until we receive a official announce (from OM or from Andy). Michele Renda ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 03:44:06 +0100 Laszlo KREKACS laszlo.krekacs.l...@gmail.com said: I do not know who is responsible for this desicion but I hope they are not the same design team who had fired Rasterman. who said i was fired? i quit (hanged in my resignation) of my own volition. :) handed in resignation last year start of august - that was mu last month @ om. :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:04:30 +0100, clare johnstone clar...@gmail.com wrote: Michele and others you could try reading what Andy said here: fromAndy Green a...@openmoko.com hide details Mar 23 (17 hours ago) to Nicolas Dufresne nicolas.dufre...@gmail.com cc openmoko-ker...@lists.openmoko.org dateMar 23, 2009 1:32 PM subject Re: [PATCH] Forced shutdown for / Andy mailed-by lists.openmoko.org That still doesn't say he was fired. -- Alexey Feldgendler ale...@feldgendler.ru [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:12:42 +0100 Alexey Feldgendler ale...@feldgendler.ru said: On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:04:30 +0100, clare johnstone clar...@gmail.com wrote: Michele and others you could try reading what Andy said here: fromAndy Green a...@openmoko.com hide details Mar 23 (17 hours ago) to Nicolas Dufresne nicolas.dufre...@gmail.com cc openmoko-ker...@lists.openmoko.org date Mar 23, 2009 1:32 PM subject Re: [PATCH] Forced shutdown for / Andy mailed-by lists.openmoko.org That still doesn't say he was fired. at least Laszlo never said he was fired at all. quote: I can't express how sad I'm when I read Andy Green left Openmoko. and you just let go is ambiguous - i.e. he could have been made redundant (different to being fired), and it could just as easily mean he decided to leave and you didn't make a counter offer to keep him. he was wrong that they fired me though. :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
I love these threads where we talk about company things, like the recent official buzz fix thread, or the secret UI design team IRC conversation, and there is NEVER any response from OpenMoko. I wonder if they see the community mailinglist as COMMUNITY ONLY, i.e. no employees allowed? :) Cheers, - Gunnar Laszlo KREKACS wrote: Dear List, I can't express how sad I'm when I read Andy Green left Openmoko. I do not know why he left (and it is not my business anyway), but I know since Andy was at Openmoko the kernel side began to form shape, and got things work. (suspend? anyone?) I know that every people is replacable at a company, but show me at least two people who made as much commit/day (and code quality) what Andy did. You cant, because there is no black magic here, no marketing mantra, it is all public and we can see who commits what into the git tree. So you just let go the single most valuable people at kernel side. Nice try. I do not know who is responsible for this desicion but I hope they are not the same design team who had fired Rasterman. Oh, and Harald Welte had left Openmoko too, but we never knew the exact details. Who left? At the hardware side: Werner and Joerg at the software side: Mirko and hmm, nobody? Im counting... How long will they stand? If I had enough money I would just hire those people and form a new company and outsource the fabrication to a chinese company (that's exactly what everyone does including apple) and forget about Openmoko (the name was a bad choice anyway ;) I know this letter a bit harsh, but it is intented to address to whom is concerned: Get your head out of your @ss, sit down and think about a bit. You must honor those people who gets the job done! The best would be just hire back those valueable people, and work out how they want to work. Even if they want to form a new (software) company, to make sure this situation will never happen again. I always wanted to buy the next model of openmoko, but I know exactly, if it has bugs (and surely it will), never or really slowly will be fixed (as the current(=everyone gets fired) situation shows). And if it will have hardware bugs, they will be never fixed by Openmoko (as the company), and I can just hope that some people offer *their free time and knowledge* and fix the problem UNOFFICIALLY (unless they did not get until fired). Can you imagine where we were today without Andy and Rasterman? I surely can: an unofficial/unsupported qtextended with an unoptimized 2.6.22 kernel. All those nice things came from these (fired) people. I'm afraid of the future. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes gunnar.grimnes [AT] dfki.de DFKI GmbH Knowledge Management Trippstadter Strasse 122 D-67663 Kaiserslautern Germany Office: +49 631 205 75-117 Mobile: +49 177 277 4397 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
I love these threads where we talk about company things, like the recent official buzz fix thread, or the secret UI design team IRC conversation, and there is NEVER any response from OpenMoko. I wonder if they see the community mailinglist as COMMUNITY ONLY, i.e. no employees allowed? :) well, there are employees available at community (judging from @openmoko addresses) -- but this constant ... brain drain is nothing that makes me happy. at least the community update should have mentioned that. atm om rather looks like a black box with only now and then some glint indicating activity inside and an information flow which seems rather like leaking. after all, om's business is centered around open and based on a strong community, if the people being more or less om's face to the community leave one after one ... it's not really reassuring. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
Am Di 24. März 2009 schrieb Laszlo KREKACS: Who left? At the hardware side: Werner and Joerg I'm no longer busy for OM on a regular monthly plan. OM is free to contract me for particular tasks, but for now that doesn't seem to happen in the near future. cheers jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
You should have stopped here IMHO. It really is none of our (community's) business, and it would be a lot more productive to just focus on the question of where do we go from here? Hey, something being none of our business has never stopped a good rant before! Personally I'm beginning to feel like the only hope for getting a decent phone out of the FR is the independent work going on around android. Actually, beginning is a lie. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Back-to-the-Basics-plan%3A-Andy-left-tp2524593p2528090.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
Thanks Gunnar, There is one thing we tend to be very tight lipped about. HR issues. That is its very rare that you will find any employee commenting on why a particular individual is not with the company anymore. Some people are let go for performance. Some are let go due to cost cutting. Some choose voluntary separation. Some request to be let go. This is highly personel data, so we try to avoid at all costs talking about these issues. As to the other issues, there are some cases were the situation is so fluid and still in process that commenting really isnt possible. I'll relook at the official buzz fix thread and see if I can add anything helpful. Gunnar Aastrand Grimnes wrote: I love these threads where we talk about company things, like the recent official buzz fix thread, or the secret UI design team IRC conversation, and there is NEVER any response from OpenMoko. I wonder if they see the community mailinglist as COMMUNITY ONLY, i.e. no employees allowed? :) Cheers, - Gunnar Laszlo KREKACS wrote: Dear List, I can't express how sad I'm when I read Andy Green left Openmoko. I do not know why he left (and it is not my business anyway), but I know since Andy was at Openmoko the kernel side began to form shape, and got things work. (suspend? anyone?) I know that every people is replacable at a company, but show me at least two people who made as much commit/day (and code quality) what Andy did. You cant, because there is no black magic here, no marketing mantra, it is all public and we can see who commits what into the git tree. So you just let go the single most valuable people at kernel side. Nice try. I do not know who is responsible for this desicion but I hope they are not the same design team who had fired Rasterman. Oh, and Harald Welte had left Openmoko too, but we never knew the exact details. Who left? At the hardware side: Werner and Joerg at the software side: Mirko and hmm, nobody? Im counting... How long will they stand? If I had enough money I would just hire those people and form a new company and outsource the fabrication to a chinese company (that's exactly what everyone does including apple) and forget about Openmoko (the name was a bad choice anyway ;) I know this letter a bit harsh, but it is intented to address to whom is concerned: Get your head out of your @ss, sit down and think about a bit. You must honor those people who gets the job done! The best would be just hire back those valueable people, and work out how they want to work. Even if they want to form a new (software) company, to make sure this situation will never happen again. I always wanted to buy the next model of openmoko, but I know exactly, if it has bugs (and surely it will), never or really slowly will be fixed (as the current(=everyone gets fired) situation shows). And if it will have hardware bugs, they will be never fixed by Openmoko (as the company), and I can just hope that some people offer *their free time and knowledge* and fix the problem UNOFFICIALLY (unless they did not get until fired). Can you imagine where we were today without Andy and Rasterman? I surely can: an unofficial/unsupported qtextended with an unoptimized 2.6.22 kernel. All those nice things came from these (fired) people. I'm afraid of the future. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
Dear List, I can't express how sad I'm when I read Andy Green left Openmoko. I do not know why he left (and it is not my business anyway), but I know since Andy was at Openmoko the kernel side began to form shape, and got things work. (suspend? anyone?) I know that every people is replacable at a company, but show me at least two people who made as much commit/day (and code quality) what Andy did. You cant, because there is no black magic here, no marketing mantra, it is all public and we can see who commits what into the git tree. So you just let go the single most valuable people at kernel side. Nice try. I do not know who is responsible for this desicion but I hope they are not the same design team who had fired Rasterman. Oh, and Harald Welte had left Openmoko too, but we never knew the exact details. Who left? At the hardware side: Werner and Joerg at the software side: Mirko and hmm, nobody? Im counting... How long will they stand? If I had enough money I would just hire those people and form a new company and outsource the fabrication to a chinese company (that's exactly what everyone does including apple) and forget about Openmoko (the name was a bad choice anyway ;) I know this letter a bit harsh, but it is intented to address to whom is concerned: Get your head out of your @ss, sit down and think about a bit. You must honor those people who gets the job done! The best would be just hire back those valueable people, and work out how they want to work. Even if they want to form a new (software) company, to make sure this situation will never happen again. I always wanted to buy the next model of openmoko, but I know exactly, if it has bugs (and surely it will), never or really slowly will be fixed (as the current(=everyone gets fired) situation shows). And if it will have hardware bugs, they will be never fixed by Openmoko (as the company), and I can just hope that some people offer *their free time and knowledge* and fix the problem UNOFFICIALLY (unless they did not get until fired). Can you imagine where we were today without Andy and Rasterman? I surely can: an unofficial/unsupported qtextended with an unoptimized 2.6.22 kernel. All those nice things came from these (fired) people. I'm afraid of the future. Best regards, Laszlo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
Laszlo KREKACS wrote: I can't express how sad I'm when I read Andy Green left Openmoko. I do not know why he left (and it is not my business anyway), but I know since Andy was at Openmoko the kernel side began to form shape, and got things work. (suspend? anyone?) You should have stopped here IMHO. It really is none of our (community's) business, and it would be a lot more productive to just focus on the question of where do we go from here? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Back to the Basics plan: Andy left
On Tue, March 24, 2009 2:03 pm, Mike Montour wrote: Laszlo KREKACS wrote: I can't express how sad I'm when I read Andy Green left Openmoko. I do not know why he left (and it is not my business anyway), but I know since Andy was at Openmoko the kernel side began to form shape, and got things work. (suspend? anyone?) You should have stopped here IMHO. It really is none of our (community's) business, and it would be a lot more productive to just focus on the question of where do we go from here? I have to say that I think the answer to that is up stream. Code doesn't have to be completely working before it goes into the upstream kernel. Just supported and useful are often enough. I understand that there is work underway to get some of the openmoko kernel code upstream. I think that should be a major focus. Once it is all in, then work can go back to enhancing and bug fixing. It would be awesome if mainline-2.6.30 or even 2.6.31 would run on the Freerunner unchanged! When it is all in mainline, it is a lot easier for more people to contribute. NeilBrown ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
