Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-21 Thread Steven Milburn
Good news, you're likely wrong :) Don't project the current draw when on the charger to when on the battery. It's very normal for the charger portion of a PMIC to be extremely in-efficient. I typically see less than 50% efficiency on chargers. The power system will be optimized for running off

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-21 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
Hello Joachim. Thank You for the information. On 4/19/08, Joachim Steiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the id pin is connected directly to pin9 of the pmu (adcin1) in addition to that there is one resistor of 100k(1%) to gnd and one of 39k(1%) to pin8 of the pmu (accsw) now everyone should be

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-19 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
Michael Shiloh wrote: Andy Powell wrote: On Friday 18 April 2008 18:34, Michael Shiloh wrote: The Neo Freerunner can charge most rapidly when it can pull 1 Amp from the power supply connected to the USB socket. However, not all chargers or computers can provide this much current. It might

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-19 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
Michael Shiloh wrote: When the Neo Freerunner detects that power has been provided at the USB port, it will attempt to draw only 100mA. This minimum is mandated by the USB standard. This amount of current is insufficient to both power the Neo Freerunner (or even just its backlight) and to

Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

2008-04-19 Thread Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
Guys, you really need to set the terminology straight here otherwise we spread FUD. Feature phones only differ between talk time and standby time. For us, it's a bit more complicated, since we have more modes. Can we agree on the following: usage time = CPU is powered on, lots of peripherals

Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

2008-04-19 Thread Jens Fursund
Good idea to put this straight. In what mode would you expect listening to audio would be? Best Regards, Jens On Sat, 2008-04-19 at 14:37 +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Guys, you really need to set the terminology straight here otherwise we spread FUD. Feature phones only differ

Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

2008-04-19 Thread Erland Lewin
2008/4/19, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Feature phones only differ between talk time and standby time. For us, it's a bit more complicated, since we have more modes. Can we agree on the following: usage time = CPU is powered on, lots of peripherals have power and you're

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-19 Thread Hans L
Great summary Michael, and a good discussion. It would be nice to see the ability to support other fast chargers in the future. That is one of my pet peeves about cell phones is that it seems every single company(and often even every model made by that company) has it's own specific charger

Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

2008-04-19 Thread Kevin Dean
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/19, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Feature phones only differ between talk time and standby time. For us, it's a bit more complicated, since we have more modes. Can we agree on the following:

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-19 Thread Ortwin Regel
That's also something I'd like to know as my Minty Boost supposedly does up to ~250 mA and I'd like to use that much if possible. The Neo 1973 doesn't have the necessary hardware to detect chargers, though, or does it? Ortwin On 4/19/08, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great summary Michael,

Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

2008-04-19 Thread Hans L
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What you call 'standby time' doesn't seem like a very important state to me... I would disagree that this state(regardless of what you want to call it) is unimportant. I think that, while this may be true for the majority

Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

2008-04-19 Thread Erland Lewin
2008/4/19, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Can the Freerunner resume on incoming call? If so, someone could suspend the device and toss it in their pocket/purse, reap maximum battery life AND keep the primary functionality intact. If it can't resume on incoming call, I'd agree it's essentially

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-19 Thread Michael Shiloh
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Michael Shiloh wrote: Andy Powell wrote: On Friday 18 April 2008 18:34, Michael Shiloh wrote: The Neo Freerunner can charge most rapidly when it can pull 1 Amp from the power supply connected to the USB socket. However, not all chargers or computers can

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-19 Thread Michael Shiloh
Hans L wrote: Great summary Michael, and a good discussion. It would be nice to see the ability to support other fast chargers in the future. That is one of my pet peeves about cell phones is that it seems every single company(and often even every model made by that company) has it's own

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-19 Thread Federico Lorenzi
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good question. I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Roh, do you recall? Are you referring to changing using different current draws? IIRC, someone was tweaking uboot because it wasn't drawing the full 100ma, only 20 or so, and

Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

2008-04-19 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I _personally_ expect the following from FreeRunner: usage time = 2 to 8 hours, depending on what you're actually doing standby time = 10 hours suspend time = 2-3 days Thanks for the information:) --

Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Michael Shiloh
Hi everyone, With input from the experts who designed the system, I've tried to document precisely how charging works on the Neo Freerunner. I welcome your feedback: The Neo Freerunner charges the battery when 5VDC is provided at the USB port, whether from a computer USB port or from a

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Paul Jimenez
Hi Michael, This is a good start, very informative. Some good additions, I think, would be: * Why does computer/usb charging max out at 500mA? is that a limitation of the USB spec? * you mention 'other manufacturers' that 'identify their own chargers' with various resistors... if

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Andy Powell
On Friday 18 April 2008 18:34, Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi everyone, With input from the experts who designed the system, I've tried to document precisely how charging works on the Neo Freerunner. I welcome your feedback: :) The Neo Freerunner charges the battery when 5VDC is provided at

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Michael Shiloh
Paul Jimenez wrote: Hi Michael, This is a good start, very informative. Thanks. Some good additions, I think, would be: * Why does computer/usb charging max out at 500mA? is that a limitation of the USB spec? Exactly, but good point. I'll add this. * you mention 'other

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Michael Shiloh
Andy Powell wrote: On Friday 18 April 2008 18:34, Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi everyone, With input from the experts who designed the system, I've tried to document precisely how charging works on the Neo Freerunner. I welcome your feedback: :) I'm being honest. I really do appreciate

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Shawn Rutledge
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the GTA01 you can press AUX as you power up to get the boot menu. On mine I have added an option to start fast (500ma) charging and power off the backlight. This means I don't need to have enough power to do a full

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Shawn Rutledge
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * for hacking purposes it would be good to document what other mfrs chargers use and how easy they are to hack into moko fastchargers. This should be a wiki page and community driven, of course, but you could get

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/18/08, Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * for hacking purposes it would be good to document what other mfrs chargers use and how easy they are to hack into moko fastchargers. This should be a wiki

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:06:26 +0200, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * you mention 'other manufacturers' that 'identify their own chargers' with various resistors... if I have one of those chargers, is there a way to get the phone to ID it? There are two issues here: First of

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Shawn Rutledge
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you make this kind of modification, there is no use in the autodetection. What do you mean? Autodetecting that a computer is the host depends on some digital communications rather than measuring a resistor.

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Michael Shiloh
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:06:26 +0200, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * you mention 'other manufacturers' that 'identify their own chargers' with various resistors... if I have one of those chargers, is there a way to get the phone to ID it? There are

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
This could be done even more simple: - Download and install the program - Connect the charger with the unknown resistor - Click on the button Get charger ID - If a valid charger ID is found, the button Add this charger becomes clickable, else it is grayed out. What do you think?

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/18/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This could be done even more simple: - Download and install the program - Connect the charger with the unknown resistor - Click on the button Get charger ID - If a valid charger ID is found, the button Add this charger

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Michael Shiloh
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: This could be done even more simple: - Download and install the program - Connect the charger with the unknown resistor - Click on the button Get charger ID - If a valid charger ID is found, the button Add this charger becomes clickable, else it is grayed

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Michael Shiloh
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: On 4/18/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This could be done even more simple: - Download and install the program - Connect the charger with the unknown resistor - Click on the button Get charger ID - If a valid charger ID is found,

Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-18 Thread Joachim Steiger
Michael Shiloh wrote: Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: - Ohh, and a valid charger ID would be a resistance between res_min and res_max. - Several pins could be probed You can only probe the pins that have the appropriate hardware interface to them. This may be all, but can't be taken for