Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
Ian Darwin wrote: Anything less will lead to this sort of frustration, over and over again. It is not always possible. The way I figured it out, the GSM module will always be closed. This is not due to the hardware specs being unknown, but due to the fact that the law requires a transmitter to be approved by the FCC, and it is impossible to get an approval for a transmitter that allows anyone to change the frequencies it transmits in. I understand what the FCC is worried about (though I do not, necessarily agree with it. Anyone can build an unauthorized transmitter, and writing code that says you have copyright permission to modify this code, but you will have to get it certified with FCC yourself before you are allowed to use it does not, in my eyes, reduce your freedom). In other words, you will NEVER get a truly 100% open source cell phone as long as the FCC rules are as they are. Regarding the GPS, please pay attention to the fact that the GTA-02 did not solve this problem. It merely moved the non open source component from the software to the firmware. This solves the supporting libraries problem, but does not allow openness. Here, at least, I suspect that the reasons have less to do with an external certification authority, and thus have more hopes for the future. Shachar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
exactly accurate respose/analysis. Hank On Nov 14, 2007 4:18 AM, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: Anything less will lead to this sort of frustration, over and over again. It is not always possible. The way I figured it out, the GSM module will always be closed. This is not due to the hardware specs being unknown, but due to the fact that the law requires a transmitter to be approved by the FCC, and it is impossible to get an approval for a transmitter that allows anyone to change the frequencies it transmits in. I understand what the FCC is worried about (though I do not, necessarily agree with it. Anyone can build an unauthorized transmitter, and writing code that says you have copyright permission to modify this code, but you will have to get it certified with FCC yourself before you are allowed to use it does not, in my eyes, reduce your freedom). In other words, you will NEVER get a truly 100% open source cell phone as long as the FCC rules are as they are. Regarding the GPS, please pay attention to the fact that the GTA-02 did not solve this problem. It merely moved the non open source component from the software to the firmware. This solves the supporting libraries problem, but does not allow openness. Here, at least, I suspect that the reasons have less to do with an external certification authority, and thus have more hopes for the future. Shachar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
Shachar Shemesh wrote: Regarding the GPS, please pay attention to the fact that the GTA-02 did not solve this problem. It merely moved the non open source component from the software to the firmware. This solves the supporting libraries problem, but does not allow openness. It solved the problem of requiring closed software to run on the host CPU, which is the most important threshold. In my opinion it is unrealistic to expect a device like the Neo1973 to use completely open hardware. A serial-attached GPS module with closed-source firmware is no worse than the hard drive with closed-source firmware in everyone's desktop PC. http://gps.psas.pdx.edu/OpenGnssProjects/ has some good links to open GPS projects, but I don't know of any that would be suitable for a mobile phone. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
Shachar Shemesh The way I figured it out, the GSM module will always be closed. This is not due to the hardware specs being unknown, but due to the fact that the law requires a transmitter to be approved by the FCC, and it is impossible to get an approval for a transmitter that allows anyone to change the frequencies it transmits in. Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking, the actual firmware cannot and will not be open sourced, however, other companies allow firmware updates to load firmware created by the manufacturer, just as they do for GPS receiver modules and many other devices. You can update firmware, even as an end user, much in the same fashion as flashing a bios on pc, for most products like this. So although we know the firmware for things like gsm, gps, bluetooth, wifi will not be open source, long term it would be best if FIC worked towards using modules that can be field updated by users. -- Doug ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
Mike Montour wrote: A serial-attached GPS module with closed-source firmware is no worse than the hard drive with closed-source firmware in everyone's desktop PC. Just for the record - I agree. It is unrealistic to expect EVERYTHING to be open source at this stage. I'm just stating that the move solves the practical, but not the ideals related, problems. If you were RMS, it would not matter to you. Which brings up an interesting question of why RMS has not opposed proprietary hard disk controllers firmware yet, but that's just musing. Shachar ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: GSM firmware and GPS driver
In other words, pretty much nothing (except for your *very* generous offer to update phones in person, for which thanks!!). This is not an occasion for us all to vent frustration at Sean, Mike, et al. However it is a very good occasion to restate something: everyone, at all times, involved in open source projects: Never, ever settle on a chip or chipset that requires NDA, or that doesn't provide freely available (as in, click to download a PDF with *no registration required*), complete specs that a developer would need to build an open source driver. Anything less will lead to this sort of frustration, over and over again. Michael, thanks for the update, and good luck getting those calls returned. I'm sure the company won't use any proprietary chips in future hardwares! Ian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
