Re: Freerunner a month after
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Ajay Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Also, after setting up QEMU and following the MakeFile instructions for Ubuntu i got the Qtopia build running. With 4 icons and on clicking them nothing happens. Plus I also see No Network I think you are using an old official image as this is an old looking gui. Try to build your image and flash qemu with that. About your project it's a nice challenge. Which gui tookit are you going to use? I'm waiting always for answers, in the meaning i'm doing some experiments i want to report: 1) i bitbaked qt4-x11-free in order to have qt library in the staging area of the asu oe tree, fixed my old myappliaction.bb, compiled my application and moved to freerunner, when i launched it i got unknown zymbol :_ZXXX:QTableModel (or similiar). So as i suspected before qt4-x11-free is incompatible with qtopia-phone-x11 and should be cleaned from the forked oe tree (if not, again why fork?), the second should provide staging files, and a new bb class should be proviede (i'll open an issue track for this). 2) i tryed to build fso-image with the right makefile for two day, every time i run make it updates repository with new stuff, so it's fail on something different every time, for exemple desktop-file-utils not finding glib-2.0-native, or fetch errors on kernel git and so on. I do not know if the buildhost builds from scratch or not, as some errors may come out only from scratch (it happened to me on python-etk-git on the asu tree, now it's fixed). 3) now i removed rm_work from my local.conf in asu tree and i'm rebitbaking qtopia-phone-x11, in order to try to compile my application manually taking qtopiamake, include, qmake, libraries and so on from the work dir! 4) i'm going to flash my phone with fso, as i like it uses directly the oetree (there are a lot more and bleeding edge package) 5) i'm setupping oe.stable and oe.dev trees with angstrom as distro, to try to produce a package for fso, as i was not able yet to resolv step 2 and build qt4-x11-free I hope in the hours/days i will give you a feedback on all these experiments! the nightmare continues :) Nicola ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner a month after
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Iain B. Findleton [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Really depends on what your motivations and goals are, I suspect. Personally, I develop the applications that I want on the phone using TclFltk, a scripting based language that uses the FLTK tool kit. Since this cross platform environment works on Windows, Linux, etc. It does not get bogged down on all this platform dependant stuff. I suspect that there must be other things that are pretty isolated from the stack, like python-gtk or java that you can use. On the other hand, if you are into the internals of the phone, your project will probably have a lot of trouble because of the lack of documentation and access. My projects are strictly user space applications, and so far, things are relatively speaking just fine. Qt library works on Windows, Linux, Mac, and Windows ME too. With a single Api you can run your applications on qtopia/2008.8/fso for example. The library usually is used with C++, and i think this is faster then python or java or other interpreted languages, and let's remember that we are on a system with a slow cpu. Howewer this could be not a big issue, as a mixed system where core feature are developed with C/C++ and lighter interfaces with interpreted languages is acceptable. Qt has an excellent documentation, i used it for years, qtopia supports gta*, in the oetree are there qt recipies, om ported qtopia phone to x11, so actually you write just one and run it on every freerunner or destkop or pda with every distro on it. Finally i must use qt because i developed a client for www.openstreetmap.orgwith editor capabilities using qt library, it's not yet released to the public for lack of time, but when i got my freerunner i decided to port,complete and release it. First i tryied to download qtopia sdk virtual machine serveral time with a slow line, but the file was trunked at 450Mb i think for an hardware problem of the server. After i decided to download qtopia-snapshots sources and compile SDK directly on my host for arm and x86, in a couple of day i was quite confident in new tools, new .pro specification, objects and api not available on qtopia (QFileDialog, QInputDialog...) and so on, patched a bit and compiled my application for qtopia. I found (it may be) a bug in qtopia in floating point, recompiled all the sdk with double precision, find that it now works and reported a bug to trolltech. I replaced /opt/* stuff with my own qtopia image and finally my applications appeared on the freerunner. The second step should be now to run my application on 2008.x and later FSO. In the past I did a try to OE, trying to port my application for ipaq2200, and i had to spent a lot of time, due to lack of documentation, to find some bitbake inc files to patch and to use in order to create a bb recipie for my application. So i thinked i should find them in om tree, but it seems there is some related to qtopia-core and not qtopia phone, howewer official recipie does not fill staging area with libraries and include, so i'm in doubt how i have to proceed, and all this is becoming a nightmare! I have not to go deeply in the internals, but just have a little control of Power Managment, or just interact with some gui staff, for example: QtopiaApplication::setPowerConstraint(QtopiaApplication::DisableLightOff); This line avoids freerunner goes to suspend when my application is running. When it quits normal power management settings are used. Another example is: QSoftMenuBar::addMenuTo(...) this add a menu under the softkeys of qtopia. These calls is only available under qtopia and not generic qt. I have to use qtopia-phone api to access contacts, sim, sms and so on, and this is a different and incompatible with the fso framework. So now, we have 2008.x with qtopia, but in the future it will be based on FSO. I think it would be quite nice to know if: * qtopia phone x11 will be patched to use FSO? * om will replace qtopia with Zenith or other gui? * om guys will patch qtopia-phone-x11 recipie and classes to build application? * what are the relations between fso/oe/om stuff? Regards Nicola ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Freerunner a month after
Hi, After experimenting with freerunner and trying to develop applications for it I have some doubts. I searched on the mailing-list, forums, wiki and so on, but I was not able to retrieve some basic information that I need to continue this exciting experience. If someone answers on this I think a lot of people will appreciate, and I'll be happy to update the wiki. First of all, I'd like to have some clarifications about software stack future. Actually, we have tree main distros: 2008.x, fso and qtopia. Qtopia is very stable, but peoples seems to not prefer it as not community based (I was not able to find qtopia 4.3.3 snapshot sources, but this is another problem). 2008.x is based on an older qtopia fork patched for x11, using it's phone server, dialer and settings. In the om-oe-tree it seems there is no staging for qt/qtopia library, nor documentation that explains how to develop qtopia/qt applications for 2008.x (I hope I'm in error), so you cannot interact easly with qtopia stack. You may use excellent qtopia offical SDK but your applications will not run becouse they need a qpe server. You may bitbake qt4-free-x11, and build applications against it, but i do not know if they are compatible with libraries that provided by qtopia on x11 itself and if that oe recipie is om-supported or is it there only from the oe fork. So it seems developing over qtopia/2008.x is not encouraged (at least for external developers). The last is FSO, it has documentation and is a very nice middleware and is bleeding-edge. I may be in error again (if i am please ignore the next assumptions!) but it seems as FSO is developed out of Fic or OpenMoko inc., directly on openembedded (some rumors about developers that left openmoko and join fso). The second doubt came as that om-oe-tree is a fork of oe-tree and is on a different git server, why this? to leave to openmoko official developers the full control over it? If some bitbake recipies need a fix, should the openmoko developers fix it or the oe guy? After that there are debian and other coming soon distros, as gentoo. All these dependes above all on openmoko linux kernel, are the openmoko developers the only writing/mantaining it? are oe guys involved too? On the wiki i read that next openmoko release will be based on fso, so will openmoko guy patch qtopia x11 to use dbus and avoid it's intertnal phone server? if not why are they supporting the project? I know this is a mix between political and technical questions, but please clarify! Regards Nicola ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner a month after
Really depends on what your motivations and goals are, I suspect. Personally, I develop the applications that I want on the phone using TclFltk, a scripting based language that uses the FLTK tool kit. Since this cross platform environment works on Windows, Linux, etc. It does not get bogged down on all this platform dependant stuff. I suspect that there must be other things that are pretty isolated from the stack, like python-gtk or java that you can use. On the other hand, if you are into the internals of the phone, your project will probably have a lot of trouble because of the lack of documentation and access. My projects are strictly user space applications, and so far, things are relatively speaking just fine. Nicola Mfb wrote: Hi, After experimenting with freerunner and trying to develop applications for it I have some doubts. I searched on the mailing-list, forums, wiki and so on, but I was not able to retrieve some basic information that I need to continue this exciting experience. If someone answers on this I think a lot of people will appreciate, and I'll be happy to update the wiki. First of all, I'd like to have some clarifications about software stack future. Actually, we have tree main distros: 2008.x, fso and qtopia. Qtopia is very stable, but peoples seems to not prefer it as not community based (I was not able to find qtopia 4.3.3 snapshot sources, but this is another problem). 2008.x is based on an older qtopia fork patched for x11, using it's phone server, dialer and settings. In the om-oe-tree it seems there is no staging for qt/qtopia library, nor documentation that explains how to develop qtopia/qt applications for 2008.x (I hope I'm in error), so you cannot interact easly with qtopia stack. You may use excellent qtopia offical SDK but your applications will not run becouse they need a qpe server. You may bitbake qt4-free-x11, and build applications against it, but i do not know if they are compatible with libraries that provided by qtopia on x11 itself and if that oe recipie is om-supported or is it there only from the oe fork. So it seems developing over qtopia/2008.x is not encouraged (at least for external developers). The last is FSO, it has documentation and is a very nice middleware and is bleeding-edge. I may be in error again (if i am please ignore the next assumptions!) but it seems as FSO is developed out of Fic or OpenMoko inc., directly on openembedded (some rumors about developers that left openmoko and join fso). The second doubt came as that om-oe-tree is a fork of oe-tree and is on a different git server, why this? to leave to openmoko official developers the full control over it? If some bitbake recipies need a fix, should the openmoko developers fix it or the oe guy? After that there are debian and other coming soon distros, as gentoo. All these dependes above all on openmoko linux kernel, are the openmoko developers the only writing/mantaining it? are oe guys involved too? On the wiki i read that next openmoko release will be based on fso, so will openmoko guy patch qtopia x11 to use dbus and avoid it's intertnal phone server? if not why are they supporting the project? I know this is a mix between political and technical questions, but please clarify! Regards Nicola ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Iain B. Findleton Tel: 514-457-0744 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
