Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-09 Thread Chris Wright
2008/6/6 steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Stroller you crack me up. (vi rules.)

 We need a religious war between the Digitii, the Stylii, and Quertii.

 Or three products?

 Rant away.  Your views are always welcome.

What of the Dvoraksai?

I do think that thumb keyboards are best -- tactile feedback. Finding
space for such is not terribly easy. There are clamshell designs,
though that prevents you from using the primary display without
opening the device; then there are sliding designs, which seem to have
a bad angle.

Thumb typing on a touchscreen is probably more efficient than using a
stylus. Thumb typing on a keyboard is probably much faster than using
a touchscreen.

Though if people want a stylus holder, how hard would it be to design
one that clips onto a Freerunner?

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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-09 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 6/9/08, Chris Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
 Though if people want a stylus holder, how hard would it be to design
 one that clips onto a Freerunner?
Normal cable clips?
  http://www.euroffice.co.uk/_image/item/_large/145723_0.jpg
  http://www.skandia.com.au/images/059es.jpg
  http://www.zipper-technik.de/bilder/sb.serie.gif
  http://www.internet-stationers.co.uk/Shop/istationers_shop/images/BL12601.jpg

But I prefer attaching it to a wire which is mounted in the phone. That
way, it will be faster available:)

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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-06 Thread Andy Powell
On Friday 06 June 2008 00:34, Feydreva wrote:
 a stylus is a another thing to loose... I do NOT want to be Dependant on a
 stylus...


perhaps you could tie yours to a piece of string and then attach it to the 
loop. I'd also recommend this for your mittens.

-- 

Andy / ScaredyCat



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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-06 Thread Gabriel Ambuehl
On Thursday 05 June 2008 16:38:46 Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
 Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed
 to hold a stylus?

+1

Just having one does not mean OM has to use it. Frankly, I'm not really 
convinced by the whole finger keyboard stuff.


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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-06 Thread thomasg
I still think that the Cowon iAudio D2 has the best solution:
guitar-pick-like stylus, attached by a short cord at a loop in the housing.

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Friday 06 June 2008 00:34, Feydreva wrote:
  a stylus is a another thing to loose... I do NOT want to be Dependant on
 a
  stylus...
 

 perhaps you could tie yours to a piece of string and then attach it to the
 loop. I'd also recommend this for your mittens.

 --

 Andy / ScaredyCat


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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-06 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 6/6/08, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Stroller you crack me up. (vi rules.)

 We need a religious war between the Digitii, the Stylii, and Quertii.

 Or three products?

 Rant away.  Your views are always welcome.
Stylus:) I hate those big keypads and I need to use the terminal a lot

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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-06 Thread ian douglas
I see the whole 'stylus holder' as a simple manufacturing choice.

Just like we choose the Freerunner based on 850/1800/1900 frequencies or 
900/1800/1900 frequencies, having a choice of I want a case with a 
stylus holder or not, could be a simple case choice when ordering.

So design a case with and without a stylus holder, and away you go. You 
don't want it, don't order it. You want it, you'd have the option to 
request it.

Just my $0.02.

-id

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RE: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-06 Thread clare
Just give thanks that the GTA01 and 02 cases have a hole in them.
It is better to tie the stylus to the phone than have to remember
to always park it rather than put it down.
And with good resolution you can make really good use of the screen and
stylus if you dont make everything on the screen big enough for fingers.

clare
(who is both Stylii and Quertii)



On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, steve wrote:

 Stroller you crack me up. (vi rules.)

 We need a religious war between the Digitii, the Stylii, and Quertii.

 On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:

 Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus?


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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-06 Thread Vinc Duran
*In theory*, a manufacturer could make replacement, er... *upgrade*, cases,
built to take some off the shelf stylus such as those found in some other
device, like a Palm for instance.

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:32 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 I see the whole 'stylus holder' as a simple manufacturing choice.

 Just like we choose the Freerunner based on 850/1800/1900 frequencies or
 900/1800/1900 frequencies, having a choice of I want a case with a
 stylus holder or not, could be a simple case choice when ordering.

 So design a case with and without a stylus holder, and away you go. You
 don't want it, don't order it. You want it, you'd have the option to
 request it.

 Just my $0.02.

 -id

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GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-05 Thread Ron K. Jeffries
Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed
to hold a stylus?

The Palm Treo 700p and similar provide good examples
re the stylus design and receptacle.

-- 
Ron K. Jeffries
http://www.retaggr.com/Card/RonKJeffries
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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-05 Thread Stroller

On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:

 Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed
 to hold a stylus?

Nooo!

Stylii are EVIL!

If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for  
that app on my mobile phone!

vi FTW!

Stroller.


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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-05 Thread Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:04:32 Stroller wrote:
 On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
  Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed
  to hold a stylus?

 Nooo!

 Stylii are EVIL!

 If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for
 that app on my mobile phone!

A stylus is inevitable given a certain combination of application type and 
physical display size.

That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger-compatible (we 
also hate stylii), _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people 
who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to operate 
with a stylus.

:M:

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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-05 Thread Stroller

On 5 Jun 2008, at 18:46, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
 On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:04:32 Stroller wrote:
 On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
 Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed
 to hold a stylus?

 Nooo!

 Stylii are EVIL!

 If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for
 that app on my mobile phone!

 A stylus is inevitable given a certain combination of application  
 type and
 physical display size.

 That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger- 
 compatible (we
 also hate stylii),

I think what you're saying there is that 1st-party apps will be  
finger-compatible, but that ported applications are not sure to be  
optimised for finger use.

 _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people
 who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to  
 operate
 with a stylus.

If the Openmoko dream is a beautiful, consistent interface that  
doesn't need a stylus, then including a slot for one is kinda an  
admission of defeat.

Surely most end-users are - in the long-term future of Openmoko -  
going to use mostly the preinstalled applications, or the core  
distro and only add one or two extra applications. Sure, developers  
of those additional apps are going to need stylii, as they compile  
Thunderbird   for ARM architecture and the buttons are really tiny,  
but the aim of applications coming-on-board to Openmoko should surely  
to be finger-capable.

Including a stylus holder just allows developers to say, oh, fingers  
don't matter.

There are a dozen smartphones out there that I can buy now with  
tiny little touchscreens that need a stylus, but these are used only  
by geeks. The majority of people buy still buy phones with a number  
pad and some kind of navigating aid (a tiny wheel, or joystick nub,  
or up-down-left-right arrow buttons). Why is this? Probably because  
people like using their fingers to access their phone. I know this is  
an old, and perhaps divisive, debate, where never the twain will  
meet, but Openmoko has a great opportunity here to make a phone that  
combines power with ease-of-use. Enable anyone to install extra apps  
on their phone, and *anyone* to use it. A fiddly stylus just makes  
the device less accessible.

Stroller.


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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-05 Thread Lally Singh
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:14 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger-
 compatible (we
 also hate stylii),

 I think what you're saying there is that 1st-party apps will be
 finger-compatible, but that ported applications are not sure to be
 optimised for finger use.

 _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people
 who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to
 operate
 with a stylus.

 If the Openmoko dream is a beautiful, consistent interface that
 doesn't need a stylus, then including a slot for one is kinda an
 admission of defeat.

 Surely most end-users are - in the long-term future of Openmoko -
 going to use mostly the preinstalled applications, or the core
 distro and only add one or two extra applications. Sure, developers
 of those additional apps are going to need stylii, as they compile
 Thunderbird   for ARM architecture and the buttons are really tiny,
 but the aim of applications coming-on-board to Openmoko should surely
 to be finger-capable.

 Including a stylus holder just allows developers to say, oh, fingers
 don't matter.

 There are a dozen smartphones out there that I can buy now with
 tiny little touchscreens that need a stylus, but these are used only
 by geeks. The majority of people buy still buy phones with a number
 pad and some kind of navigating aid (a tiny wheel, or joystick nub,
 or up-down-left-right arrow buttons). Why is this? Probably because
 people like using their fingers to access their phone. I know this is
 an old, and perhaps divisive, debate, where never the twain will
 meet, but Openmoko has a great opportunity here to make a phone that
 combines power with ease-of-use. Enable anyone to install extra apps
 on their phone, and *anyone* to use it. A fiddly stylus just makes
 the device less accessible.


I'm no fan of the You can only have it my way, not your way, and not
both idea.  Especially for open devices.

But, for the topic at hand:  My Treo 650 has a stylus, and I pull it
out for certain apps (Bejeweled and several other games come to mind).
 My day-to-day applications don't require one at all.

Certain mobile apps are worth pulling out a stylus for, and they're
better for it.

There's no need to ban an input device in fear of abuse on an open
system. Any decent app that people like, that mistakenly requires a
stylus, will get patched pretty quick.

-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-05 Thread Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
On Thursday 05 June 2008 23:14:41 Stroller wrote:
 On 5 Jun 2008, at 18:46, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
  On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:04:32 Stroller wrote:
  On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
  Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed
  to hold a stylus?
 
  Nooo!
 
  Stylii are EVIL!
 
  If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for
  that app on my mobile phone!
 
  A stylus is inevitable given a certain combination of application
  type and
  physical display size.
 
  That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger-
  compatible (we
  also hate stylii),

 I think what you're saying there is that 1st-party apps will be
 finger-compatible, but that ported applications are not sure to be
 optimised for finger use.

Yes, that's what I wanted to express with the double negation.

  _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people
  who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to
  operate
  with a stylus.

 If the Openmoko dream is a beautiful, consistent interface that
 doesn't need a stylus, then including a slot for one is kinda an
 admission of defeat.

Of course, we dream about beautiful consistent interfaces. The same dream that 
the Linux desktop world is dreaming, alas it didn't happen in the last couple 
of decades.

The Openmoko dream is also about emporing users to realize _their_ ideas of 
applications. If these require a stylus, not including a compartment for one 
is counterproductive.

 Surely most end-users are - in the long-term future of Openmoko -
 going to use mostly the preinstalled applications, or the core
 distro and only add one or two extra applications. Sure, developers
 of those additional apps are going to need stylii, as they compile
 Thunderbird   for ARM architecture and the buttons are really tiny,
 but the aim of applications coming-on-board to Openmoko should surely
 to be finger-capable.

 Including a stylus holder just allows developers to say, oh, fingers
 don't matter.

I guess we just disagree here.

 Enable anyone to install extra apps
 on their phone, and *anyone* to use it. A fiddly stylus just makes
 the device less accessible.

Show me a finger-sized on-screen keyboard for a terminal application where you 
don't have to switch between dozens of layouts to get to the full set of 
characters. Then we can talk again.

:M:

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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-05 Thread Feydreva
a stylus is a another thing to loose... I do NOT want to be Dependant on a
stylus...

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 5 Jun 2008, at 18:46, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
  On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:04:32 Stroller wrote:
  On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
  Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed
  to hold a stylus?
 
  Nooo!
 
  Stylii are EVIL!
 
  If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for
  that app on my mobile phone!
 
  A stylus is inevitable given a certain combination of application
  type and
  physical display size.
 
  That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger-
  compatible (we
  also hate stylii),

 I think what you're saying there is that 1st-party apps will be
 finger-compatible, but that ported applications are not sure to be
 optimised for finger use.

  _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people
  who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to
  operate
  with a stylus.

 If the Openmoko dream is a beautiful, consistent interface that
 doesn't need a stylus, then including a slot for one is kinda an
 admission of defeat.

 Surely most end-users are - in the long-term future of Openmoko -
 going to use mostly the preinstalled applications, or the core
 distro and only add one or two extra applications. Sure, developers
 of those additional apps are going to need stylii, as they compile
 Thunderbird   for ARM architecture and the buttons are really tiny,
 but the aim of applications coming-on-board to Openmoko should surely
 to be finger-capable.

 Including a stylus holder just allows developers to say, oh, fingers
 don't matter.

 There are a dozen smartphones out there that I can buy now with
 tiny little touchscreens that need a stylus, but these are used only
 by geeks. The majority of people buy still buy phones with a number
 pad and some kind of navigating aid (a tiny wheel, or joystick nub,
 or up-down-left-right arrow buttons). Why is this? Probably because
 people like using their fingers to access their phone. I know this is
 an old, and perhaps divisive, debate, where never the twain will
 meet, but Openmoko has a great opportunity here to make a phone that
 combines power with ease-of-use. Enable anyone to install extra apps
 on their phone, and *anyone* to use it. A fiddly stylus just makes
 the device less accessible.

 Stroller.


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Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

2008-06-05 Thread W.Kenworthy
As I have short, fat fingers stylii are are a neccessay evil - I find
fingers on most smart phones a pain.

The only evilness my stylii have is a propensity to hide when they are
really needed! - they are so so much faster than my fingers on a treo650
for instance :)  And trying to use the dialler is almost impossible with
my fingers.

This is something I cant see on the freerunner so I presume it does not
have a built in stylus/stylus house?

Billk



and becauseOn Thu, 2008-06-05 at 17:04 +0100, Stroller wrote:
 On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
 
  Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed
  to hold a stylus?
 
 Nooo!
 
 Stylii are EVIL!
 
 If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for  
 that app on my mobile phone!
 
 vi FTW!
 
 Stroller.
 
 
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