Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
2008/6/6 steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Stroller you crack me up. (vi rules.) We need a religious war between the Digitii, the Stylii, and Quertii. Or three products? Rant away. Your views are always welcome. What of the Dvoraksai? I do think that thumb keyboards are best -- tactile feedback. Finding space for such is not terribly easy. There are clamshell designs, though that prevents you from using the primary display without opening the device; then there are sliding designs, which seem to have a bad angle. Thumb typing on a touchscreen is probably more efficient than using a stylus. Thumb typing on a keyboard is probably much faster than using a touchscreen. Though if people want a stylus holder, how hard would it be to design one that clips onto a Freerunner? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On 6/9/08, Chris Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Though if people want a stylus holder, how hard would it be to design one that clips onto a Freerunner? Normal cable clips? http://www.euroffice.co.uk/_image/item/_large/145723_0.jpg http://www.skandia.com.au/images/059es.jpg http://www.zipper-technik.de/bilder/sb.serie.gif http://www.internet-stationers.co.uk/Shop/istationers_shop/images/BL12601.jpg But I prefer attaching it to a wire which is mounted in the phone. That way, it will be faster available:) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On Friday 06 June 2008 00:34, Feydreva wrote: a stylus is a another thing to loose... I do NOT want to be Dependant on a stylus... perhaps you could tie yours to a piece of string and then attach it to the loop. I'd also recommend this for your mittens. -- Andy / ScaredyCat pgp6txpzhqU2G.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On Thursday 05 June 2008 16:38:46 Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? +1 Just having one does not mean OM has to use it. Frankly, I'm not really convinced by the whole finger keyboard stuff. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
I still think that the Cowon iAudio D2 has the best solution: guitar-pick-like stylus, attached by a short cord at a loop in the housing. On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 06 June 2008 00:34, Feydreva wrote: a stylus is a another thing to loose... I do NOT want to be Dependant on a stylus... perhaps you could tie yours to a piece of string and then attach it to the loop. I'd also recommend this for your mittens. -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On 6/6/08, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stroller you crack me up. (vi rules.) We need a religious war between the Digitii, the Stylii, and Quertii. Or three products? Rant away. Your views are always welcome. Stylus:) I hate those big keypads and I need to use the terminal a lot ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
I see the whole 'stylus holder' as a simple manufacturing choice. Just like we choose the Freerunner based on 850/1800/1900 frequencies or 900/1800/1900 frequencies, having a choice of I want a case with a stylus holder or not, could be a simple case choice when ordering. So design a case with and without a stylus holder, and away you go. You don't want it, don't order it. You want it, you'd have the option to request it. Just my $0.02. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
Just give thanks that the GTA01 and 02 cases have a hole in them. It is better to tie the stylus to the phone than have to remember to always park it rather than put it down. And with good resolution you can make really good use of the screen and stylus if you dont make everything on the screen big enough for fingers. clare (who is both Stylii and Quertii) On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, steve wrote: Stroller you crack me up. (vi rules.) We need a religious war between the Digitii, the Stylii, and Quertii. On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
*In theory*, a manufacturer could make replacement, er... *upgrade*, cases, built to take some off the shelf stylus such as those found in some other device, like a Palm for instance. On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:32 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see the whole 'stylus holder' as a simple manufacturing choice. Just like we choose the Freerunner based on 850/1800/1900 frequencies or 900/1800/1900 frequencies, having a choice of I want a case with a stylus holder or not, could be a simple case choice when ordering. So design a case with and without a stylus holder, and away you go. You don't want it, don't order it. You want it, you'd have the option to request it. Just my $0.02. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? The Palm Treo 700p and similar provide good examples re the stylus design and receptacle. -- Ron K. Jeffries http://www.retaggr.com/Card/RonKJeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? Nooo! Stylii are EVIL! If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for that app on my mobile phone! vi FTW! Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:04:32 Stroller wrote: On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? Nooo! Stylii are EVIL! If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for that app on my mobile phone! A stylus is inevitable given a certain combination of application type and physical display size. That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger-compatible (we also hate stylii), _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to operate with a stylus. :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On 5 Jun 2008, at 18:46, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:04:32 Stroller wrote: On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? Nooo! Stylii are EVIL! If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for that app on my mobile phone! A stylus is inevitable given a certain combination of application type and physical display size. That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger- compatible (we also hate stylii), I think what you're saying there is that 1st-party apps will be finger-compatible, but that ported applications are not sure to be optimised for finger use. _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to operate with a stylus. If the Openmoko dream is a beautiful, consistent interface that doesn't need a stylus, then including a slot for one is kinda an admission of defeat. Surely most end-users are - in the long-term future of Openmoko - going to use mostly the preinstalled applications, or the core distro and only add one or two extra applications. Sure, developers of those additional apps are going to need stylii, as they compile Thunderbird for ARM architecture and the buttons are really tiny, but the aim of applications coming-on-board to Openmoko should surely to be finger-capable. Including a stylus holder just allows developers to say, oh, fingers don't matter. There are a dozen smartphones out there that I can buy now with tiny little touchscreens that need a stylus, but these are used only by geeks. The majority of people buy still buy phones with a number pad and some kind of navigating aid (a tiny wheel, or joystick nub, or up-down-left-right arrow buttons). Why is this? Probably because people like using their fingers to access their phone. I know this is an old, and perhaps divisive, debate, where never the twain will meet, but Openmoko has a great opportunity here to make a phone that combines power with ease-of-use. Enable anyone to install extra apps on their phone, and *anyone* to use it. A fiddly stylus just makes the device less accessible. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:14 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger- compatible (we also hate stylii), I think what you're saying there is that 1st-party apps will be finger-compatible, but that ported applications are not sure to be optimised for finger use. _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to operate with a stylus. If the Openmoko dream is a beautiful, consistent interface that doesn't need a stylus, then including a slot for one is kinda an admission of defeat. Surely most end-users are - in the long-term future of Openmoko - going to use mostly the preinstalled applications, or the core distro and only add one or two extra applications. Sure, developers of those additional apps are going to need stylii, as they compile Thunderbird for ARM architecture and the buttons are really tiny, but the aim of applications coming-on-board to Openmoko should surely to be finger-capable. Including a stylus holder just allows developers to say, oh, fingers don't matter. There are a dozen smartphones out there that I can buy now with tiny little touchscreens that need a stylus, but these are used only by geeks. The majority of people buy still buy phones with a number pad and some kind of navigating aid (a tiny wheel, or joystick nub, or up-down-left-right arrow buttons). Why is this? Probably because people like using their fingers to access their phone. I know this is an old, and perhaps divisive, debate, where never the twain will meet, but Openmoko has a great opportunity here to make a phone that combines power with ease-of-use. Enable anyone to install extra apps on their phone, and *anyone* to use it. A fiddly stylus just makes the device less accessible. I'm no fan of the You can only have it my way, not your way, and not both idea. Especially for open devices. But, for the topic at hand: My Treo 650 has a stylus, and I pull it out for certain apps (Bejeweled and several other games come to mind). My day-to-day applications don't require one at all. Certain mobile apps are worth pulling out a stylus for, and they're better for it. There's no need to ban an input device in fear of abuse on an open system. Any decent app that people like, that mistakenly requires a stylus, will get patched pretty quick. -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
On Thursday 05 June 2008 23:14:41 Stroller wrote: On 5 Jun 2008, at 18:46, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:04:32 Stroller wrote: On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? Nooo! Stylii are EVIL! If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for that app on my mobile phone! A stylus is inevitable given a certain combination of application type and physical display size. That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger- compatible (we also hate stylii), I think what you're saying there is that 1st-party apps will be finger-compatible, but that ported applications are not sure to be optimised for finger use. Yes, that's what I wanted to express with the double negation. _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to operate with a stylus. If the Openmoko dream is a beautiful, consistent interface that doesn't need a stylus, then including a slot for one is kinda an admission of defeat. Of course, we dream about beautiful consistent interfaces. The same dream that the Linux desktop world is dreaming, alas it didn't happen in the last couple of decades. The Openmoko dream is also about emporing users to realize _their_ ideas of applications. If these require a stylus, not including a compartment for one is counterproductive. Surely most end-users are - in the long-term future of Openmoko - going to use mostly the preinstalled applications, or the core distro and only add one or two extra applications. Sure, developers of those additional apps are going to need stylii, as they compile Thunderbird for ARM architecture and the buttons are really tiny, but the aim of applications coming-on-board to Openmoko should surely to be finger-capable. Including a stylus holder just allows developers to say, oh, fingers don't matter. I guess we just disagree here. Enable anyone to install extra apps on their phone, and *anyone* to use it. A fiddly stylus just makes the device less accessible. Show me a finger-sized on-screen keyboard for a terminal application where you don't have to switch between dozens of layouts to get to the full set of characters. Then we can talk again. :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
a stylus is a another thing to loose... I do NOT want to be Dependant on a stylus... On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5 Jun 2008, at 18:46, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: On Thursday 05 June 2008 18:04:32 Stroller wrote: On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? Nooo! Stylii are EVIL! If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for that app on my mobile phone! A stylus is inevitable given a certain combination of application type and physical display size. That doesn't mean that we will not write all our apps finger- compatible (we also hate stylii), I think what you're saying there is that 1st-party apps will be finger-compatible, but that ported applications are not sure to be optimised for finger use. _but_ being an open device, we should not lock out people who _need_ to have lots of tiny stuff on their screen hence need to operate with a stylus. If the Openmoko dream is a beautiful, consistent interface that doesn't need a stylus, then including a slot for one is kinda an admission of defeat. Surely most end-users are - in the long-term future of Openmoko - going to use mostly the preinstalled applications, or the core distro and only add one or two extra applications. Sure, developers of those additional apps are going to need stylii, as they compile Thunderbird for ARM architecture and the buttons are really tiny, but the aim of applications coming-on-board to Openmoko should surely to be finger-capable. Including a stylus holder just allows developers to say, oh, fingers don't matter. There are a dozen smartphones out there that I can buy now with tiny little touchscreens that need a stylus, but these are used only by geeks. The majority of people buy still buy phones with a number pad and some kind of navigating aid (a tiny wheel, or joystick nub, or up-down-left-right arrow buttons). Why is this? Probably because people like using their fingers to access their phone. I know this is an old, and perhaps divisive, debate, where never the twain will meet, but Openmoko has a great opportunity here to make a phone that combines power with ease-of-use. Enable anyone to install extra apps on their phone, and *anyone* to use it. A fiddly stylus just makes the device less accessible. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder
As I have short, fat fingers stylii are are a neccessay evil - I find fingers on most smart phones a pain. The only evilness my stylii have is a propensity to hide when they are really needed! - they are so so much faster than my fingers on a treo650 for instance :) And trying to use the dialler is almost impossible with my fingers. This is something I cant see on the freerunner so I presume it does not have a built in stylus/stylus house? Billk and becauseOn Thu, 2008-06-05 at 17:04 +0100, Stroller wrote: On 5 Jun 2008, at 15:38, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Can the revised case for GTA03 *please* be designed to hold a stylus? Nooo! Stylii are EVIL! If I can't operate an app with my fingers, then there's no place for that app on my mobile phone! vi FTW! Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community