Re: Myth Busting FTW
On 8/31/07, Mike Hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Where on any official blogs/websites have you seen the OpenMoko team or FIC say that they were making an iPhone killer or anti-iPhone? It looks like Apple have beaten FIC to the punch anyway: http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7017660.stm Give me a phone that isn't actively fighting against me, anyday! Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
Daniel Eran [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: TMobile only owns 1900 MHz transponders, which are high enough to be problematic. That means subscribers have to roam on ATT to use 850 MHz. 1900 is the standard US frequency, and 850 is the non-standard. My nearly four year old tri-band European phone Just Works (tm) on T-Mobile which is why I got T-Mobile; it was painful having to wait *years* for 850 versions of phones to be released in the US (which is luckily not so much of an issue now). What is wrong with 1900? I've never had any issues even when five years ago in the Carolinas when the Cingular and T-Mobile coverage areas were really crap. I suspect your phone has a bad antenna as the tower being a few meters taller really shouldn't affect the signal much when you can be a mile or so away. ATT also has a significant amount of 1900. Their entire network in the Carolinas is 1900 at least (I know as I travel there often and I can roam without issue and my phone does not do 850). even smaller market than ATT's US version of UMTS. T-Mobile uses non-standard frequencies that only a quad band phone could use, and then only hitting on one cylinder out of four. I've been a T-Mobile customer for years, One cyclinder out of four? Please explain what you mean by this. If you mean that the data transfer speeds or some such are slow becuse you can't allocate all slots at once I think you are wrong. I am on a GPRS connection right now, and I generally get the fully 40 k/s down that my device is capable of except around nine p.m. or so (I'm guessing when everyone jumps on to use their 'free' time). No I'm not. I had more to say about FIC than OpenMoko. I'm just pointing out that buying an FIC phone isn't sticking it to Microsoft in any sense beyond buying a Dell Windows PC and then installing Linux. It has no market effect at all. How does buying a phone that is capable of running Windows mobile help *or* hurt Microsoft? They are not getting a Windows license fee from the hardware. Your analogy does not hold -- Microsoft gets money when you buy a machine with Windows installed. The Neo1973 is more like buying an os-less machine. Your conclusion that there is no market effect does mostly hold, but at the same time there seems to be a slight effect: the gta01 Neo1973 appears to have sold at least two full production runs and FIC is going ahead with the production of a second revision. A few thousand devices being sold in a month shows that there is some demand for a real GNU/Linux running phone, does it not? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
second revision. A few thousand devices being sold in a month shows that there is some demand for a real GNU/Linux running phone, does it not? I think there was demand, but if you look at how the number of posts on this list has been downhill since a little after its release, I think people might have changed their minds.. This is why I changed my mind - I have no interest in using this phone until it has a reliable dialer. Until then you cant really call it a phone... I just put mine on the shelf in its super cool looking bullet proof case and maybe someday I will take it down and try to mess with it.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
On 6 Sep 2007, at 18:45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there was demand, but if you look at how the number of posts on this list has been downhill since a little after its release, I think people might have changed their minds.. This is why I changed my mind - I have no interest in using this phone until it has a reliable dialer. Until then you cant really call it a phone... I just put mine on the shelf in its super cool looking bullet proof case and maybe someday I will take it down and try to mess with it.. IMHO it takes a long time, too long to get the feel of the build system. Then you hit build problems and if you don't have much time to devote due to work commitments it is tough. If the build and development was possible using a Gnome IDE it would save a lot of time. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
Jeremy G wrote: Excellent, very well written rebuttal! Please let us know if you get any sort of response. :-) Probably worth a cc to the forum on the site. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
Excellent, very well written rebuttal! Please let us know if you get any sort of response. :-) J. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
Great work - but somehow I don't believe that Daniel will publish a full correction on his page. Nevertheless, this could help to reduce the confusions in future. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: Myth Busting FTW
And what appears to be a final reply from Dan. -- Forwarded message -- From: Daniel Eran [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Aug 31, 2007 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Myth Busting FTW To: Mike Hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Mike, I have a dim view of providers overall. I also realize the US mobile system is really bad, and have written before detailing the history of how things got the way they are, as well as what problems I see specifically. I'm not trying to run down T-mobile, only pointing out that the arguments that the iPhone is tied to ATT in some bizarre and evil way are overblown. Tmobile doesn't really offer much in the US, although I'm sure things are slightly different in various regions , such as Vermont, which has no ATT service. I also made comments about the GSM/CDMA2000 split in the US, which really restricts any provider you want freedom. In other markets that are predominantly GSM (such as the EU) or CMDA2000 (such as Japan), there is more reason to demand vendor neutrality. I would prefer ATT to gain strength in the US so that GSM became an overall standard. The move to UMTS was supposed to unite both 2.5G systems under one new 3G one, but now Verizon is building out old EDVO and Sprint is building out WiMax. So a real open market for service is unlikely to happen soon in the US. Dan - ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
* Where on any official blogs/websites have you seen the OpenMoko team or FIC say that they were making an iPhone killer or anti-iPhone? Sean Moss-Pultz, architect of OpenMoko and product manager of First International Computer's mobile communication business unit, in an e-mail... Why buy a Neo rather than an iPhone? While Apple delivers a polished experience, it's an experience that is exactly how you they want you to have it, said Moss-Pultz. In other words, users really have no freedom to change the device if they don't like the way Apple chose to make things. OpenMoko is the anti-iPhone. Linux-Based OpenMoko 'Anti-iPhone' Debuts -- iPhone -- InformationWeek I think it's hard to avoid comparisons with the iPhone considering the insane media frenzy. I'm sure Sean co. got asked frequently to compare the Apple phone and the FIC phone, and really, in this context, the term anti-iPhone is somewhat appropriate. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: Myth Busting FTW
Thanks, Mike, for forwarding his responses. It's been interesting to hear more about his point of view from his original scathing article. Like many others, I couldn't finish reading his blog article either. -id Mike Hodson wrote: And what appears to be a final reply from Dan. -- Forwarded message -- From: Daniel Eran [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Aug 31, 2007 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Myth Busting FTW To: Mike Hodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Mike, I have a dim view of providers overall. I also realize the US mobile system is really bad, and have written before detailing the history of how things got the way they are, as well as what problems I see specifically. I'm not trying to run down T-mobile, only pointing out that the arguments that the iPhone is tied to ATT in some bizarre and evil way are overblown. Tmobile doesn't really offer much in the US, although I'm sure things are slightly different in various regions , such as Vermont, which has no ATT service. I also made comments about the GSM/CDMA2000 split in the US, which really restricts any provider you want freedom. In other markets that are predominantly GSM (such as the EU) or CMDA2000 (such as Japan), there is more reason to demand vendor neutrality. I would prefer ATT to gain strength in the US so that GSM became an overall standard. The move to UMTS was supposed to unite both 2.5G systems under one new 3G one, but now Verizon is building out old EDVO and Sprint is building out WiMax. So a real open market for service is unlikely to happen soon in the US. Dan - ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
/rant start I couldn't complete his article.. he really wants me to make him eat his shorts... :) he states half truths at some points and omits features just to show up the iPhone. /rant end ok. got that out of my system. - Original Message From: Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:12:24 PM Subject: Myth Busting FTW Somebody really has their knickers in a bunch. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html All that FUD is making me woozy @_@ Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
On 29/08/2007, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heh! It's an Apple fan site, so you can't expect any attempt at objectivity - as the forum following up the article shows: http://roughlydrafted.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=290page=1#Item_0 Given that Apple fans already have the phone of their dreams, it is quite the compliment that they should feel the need to devote such time, energy and FUD to attack their perceived 'rival'. As when Microsoft compared Linux with Communism - the more rabid the attack, the more insecurity lies beneath. Well, as KathyLee said: Wow - killer fact-finding! Obviously, his sources are reliable ;-) Oh, and attacking the ideas wiki rather humourously misses the point ;-) Nuthin' to see here iThink... Richard On 8/28/07, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somebody really has their knickers in a bunch. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html All that FUD is making me woozy @_@ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Vincent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
The free and open Anti-iPhone rhetoric surrounding the FIC phone is therefore marketing drivel to sell a Chinese Windows Mobile device as a hobbyist kit for phone hackers. Statements like that really piss me off. For one, AFAIK nobody within FIC is trying to introduce the Neo as an Anti-iPhone. That's just the presses take on things. His article is just too full of inaccuracies. I wasn't able to finish it either. I'm half-tempted to send him an email, but I don't really think he's worth the effort. J. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
On 15:35:39 2007-08-29 Jeremy G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The free and open Anti-iPhone rhetoric surrounding the FIC phone is therefore marketing drivel to sell a Chinese Windows Mobile device as a hobbyist kit for phone hackers. Statements like that really piss me off. For one, AFAIK nobody within FIC is trying to introduce the Neo as an Anti-iPhone. That's just the presses take on things. His article is just too full of inaccuracies. I wasn't able to finish it either. I'm half-tempted to send him an email, but I don't really think he's worth the effort. That article is just to pathetic to take seriously... I was laughing my arse off while reading... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Myth Busting FTW
Somebody really has their knickers in a bunch. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html All that FUD is making me woozy @_@ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
Somebody really has their knickers in a bunch. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html All that FUD is making me woozy @_@ My favorite from the article The iPhone has twice the system RAM, but more importantly has 4 or 8 GB or Flash, compared to the quarter GB of Flash in FIC's phone. Since the Neo1973 uses all its system RAM to run Linux, it has to run additional apps from separate Flash cards. Not sure where he is getting his sources from perhaps http://www.theonion.com or http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Main_Page? Cheers, Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
Heh! It's an Apple fan site, so you can't expect any attempt at objectivity - as the forum following up the article shows: http://roughlydrafted.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=290page=1#Item_0 Given that Apple fans already have the phone of their dreams, it is quite the compliment that they should feel the need to devote such time, energy and FUD to attack their perceived 'rival'. As when Microsoft compared Linux with Communism - the more rabid the attack, the more insecurity lies beneath. Oh, and attacking the ideas wiki rather humourously misses the point ;-) Nuthin' to see here iThink... Richard On 8/28/07, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somebody really has their knickers in a bunch. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html All that FUD is making me woozy @_@ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Myth Busting FTW
Nkoli wrote: Somebody really has their knickers in a bunch. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/B10AE668-EAD3-46DC-A042-5EF3461D63EF.html All that FUD is making me woozy @_@ my prefered part is : = So much for the glorious freedom of choosing your own provider. Any real choice is prevented by the proprietary differences between GSM mobile providers like ATT and the CDMA2000 providers like Sprint and Verizon Wireless who don't offer GSM service at all. = looks like these people believe that outside the US is here be dragons land... last I checked, the rest of the world only has GSM in one form or another and only the US plays with 5 different cell phone protocols ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
