Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
Norbert Hartl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is exactly the opposite I talked about Sorry. Didn't read thoroughly. -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
No pin dialog/ qpe
What is qpe exactly doing? I noticed a lot of problems other people reporting like the no pin dialog. Looking at the device qpe uses 100% CPU for a long time. I don't understand it but the CPU usage of qpe is capable to slow down other things extremely. The SIM Pin dialog is working with the new firmware but delayed through qpe. Holger Freyther gave me the hint that it is looking for media on the SD card. In /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf there is a section where qpe is configured for the media it should search. For the SD card every media type is activated. So the qpe searches the SD card after booting blocking a lot of other things. There are two issues for me: - it is discussable if these settings are useful as default to search for media on the SD card. While being troublesome I would be against it - furthermore the SD card is configured as being removable forcing the qpe to do the search every time being activated. Removable can be interpret as two things. The card is removable at runtime or it is removable at all. In the second case this would be true for hard disks as well :) If this is meant as something sensible at runtime this is a misinterpretation. You have to shut down the freeunner to remove the card so it is not really removable Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
Norbert Hartl wrote: What is qpe exactly doing? I noticed a lot of problems other people reporting like the no pin dialog. Looking at the device qpe uses 100% CPU for a long time. I don't understand it but the CPU usage of qpe is capable to slow down other things extremely. The SIM Pin dialog is working with the new firmware but delayed through qpe. Holger Freyther gave me the hint that it is looking for media on the SD card. In /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf That is one possible thing it is doing at startup. The idea is that it is a phone, and you only startup in rare instances. there is a section where qpe is configured for the media it should search. For the SD card every media type is activated. So the qpe searches the SD card after booting blocking a lot of other things. There are two issues for me: - it is discussable if these settings are useful as default to search for media on the SD card. While being troublesome I would be against it If Qtopia is not allowed to search the SD card, it will not be able to see/use files on it, so then why have it at all? - furthermore the SD card is configured as being removable forcing the qpe to do the search every time being activated. Removable can be interpret as two things. The card is removable at runtime or it is removable at all. In the second case this would be true for hard disks as well :) If this is meant as something sensible at runtime this is a misinterpretation. You have to shut down the freeunner to remove the card so it is not really removable But it _IS_ removable, losable and optional. The flash chip is not. As well, you might have added files to it while you had it out. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
Thanks Norbert very much for finally finding the real problem with the pin dialog not appearing! Removing this makes the pin-dialog appear for me with !!every boot!! now ca. 15-20 sec after x started. Before this patch the pin-dialog just appeared 1 out of 40 boots! This is a big improvment. So if this is really needed to do by qpe, this process should be forked away from qpe in order to not block other things and it should be given a low priority with nice not to consume so much cpu and blocking other processes with this. # diff /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf.bak /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf --- /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf.bak Mon Aug 11 11:19:26 2008 +++ /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf Mon Aug 11 11:20:02 2008 @@ -2,19 +2,8 @@ File=QtopiaDefaults Context=Storage -[MountTable] -MountPoints=MountPoint0 - [HOME] Name[] = HOME Documents = 1 Applications = 0 ContentDatabase=1 - -[MountPoint0] -Name[] = SD Card -Path=/dev/mmcblk0p1 -Removable = 1 -Applications = 1 -Documents = 1 -ContentDatabase = 1 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
If Qtopia is not allowed to search the SD card, it will not be able to see/use files on it, so then why have it at all? wouldn't it be sensible to have some flag or checksum indicating that the card and it's content are unchanged, thus preventing unnecessary searching? i do not use qtopia, so if it's already done that way, ignore me ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 21:01 +1000, Lorn Potter wrote: Norbert Hartl wrote: What is qpe exactly doing? I noticed a lot of problems other people reporting like the no pin dialog. Looking at the device qpe uses 100% CPU for a long time. I don't understand it but the CPU usage of qpe is capable to slow down other things extremely. The SIM Pin dialog is working with the new firmware but delayed through qpe. Holger Freyther gave me the hint that it is looking for media on the SD card. In /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf That is one possible thing it is doing at startup. The idea is that it is a phone, and you only startup in rare instances. If we take a stable phone than you are right. But at the moment people need to start often and that leads to a situation where these settings confuse a lot of people. It is even there if you start your phone the first time. To raise user experience this search should be delayed and it should be assured that this search is happening on a very low priority so it does not block anything. There could be even an indicator that is visually announcing the search. But let us be realistic :) there is a section where qpe is configured for the media it should search. For the SD card every media type is activated. So the qpe searches the SD card after booting blocking a lot of other things. There are two issues for me: - it is discussable if these settings are useful as default to search for media on the SD card. While being troublesome I would be against it If Qtopia is not allowed to search the SD card, it will not be able to see/use files on it, so then why have it at all? Because there is always something in between black and white. There could be some intelligent way to detect when it is necessary to refresh. And users are quite used to know that software is stupid and they praise the existence of a manual trigger for such actions. - furthermore the SD card is configured as being removable forcing the qpe to do the search every time being activated. Removable can be interpret as two things. The card is removable at runtime or it is removable at all. In the second case this would be true for hard disks as well :) If this is meant as something sensible at runtime this is a misinterpretation. You have to shut down the freeunner to remove the card so it is not really removable But it _IS_ removable, losable and optional. The flash chip is not. As well, you might have added files to it while you had it out. see above. Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
Thanks! But your proposal is a bit harsh for me :) You just need to put 0 to the config items in section SD Card. That solves it as well. Norbert On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 13:35 +0200, Rorschach wrote: Thanks Norbert very much for finally finding the real problem with the pin dialog not appearing! Removing this makes the pin-dialog appear for me with !!every boot!! now ca. 15-20 sec after x started. Before this patch the pin-dialog just appeared 1 out of 40 boots! This is a big improvment. So if this is really needed to do by qpe, this process should be forked away from qpe in order to not block other things and it should be given a low priority with nice not to consume so much cpu and blocking other processes with this. # diff /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf.bak /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf --- /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf.bakMon Aug 11 11:19:26 2008 +++ /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.confMon Aug 11 11:20:02 2008 @@ -2,19 +2,8 @@ File=QtopiaDefaults Context=Storage -[MountTable] -MountPoints=MountPoint0 - [HOME] Name[] = HOME Documents = 1 Applications = 0 ContentDatabase=1 - -[MountPoint0] -Name[] = SD Card -Path=/dev/mmcblk0p1 -Removable = 1 -Applications = 1 -Documents = 1 -ContentDatabase = 1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 13:41 +0200, arne anka wrote: If Qtopia is not allowed to search the SD card, it will not be able to see/use files on it, so then why have it at all? wouldn't it be sensible to have some flag or checksum indicating that the card and it's content are unchanged, thus preventing unnecessary searching? i do not use qtopia, so if it's already done that way, ignore me ... The flag you mean could be the modification date of the filesystem. Placing an extra flag does not help. A copy of mp3 files with an other program does not honor your flag but the filesystem stamps do. A registry of media cards and modification dates could solve this. If there is an id on the filesystem (like the uuid from an ext3) use this. Otherwise the freerunner could create one and write it on the media. If the freerunner then would check the id and the timestamp asking the user to do some actions on change that would be heaven :) my 2 cents Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: wouldn't it be sensible to have some flag or checksum indicating that the card and it's content are unchanged inotify -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
wouldn't it be sensible to have some flag or checksum indicating that the card and it's content are unchanged inotify does inotify tell you if the card was manipulated outside the fr? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 15:01 +0200, arne anka wrote: wouldn't it be sensible to have some flag or checksum indicating that the card and it's content are unchanged inotify does inotify tell you if the card was manipulated outside the fr? No, inotify is an observer at runtime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify It is exactly the opposite I talked about and non working version of the same :) Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
inotify does inotify tell you if the card was manipulated outside the fr? No, inotify is an observer at runtime. thought so. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
Norbert Hartl wrote: On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 21:01 +1000, Lorn Potter wrote: Norbert Hartl wrote: What is qpe exactly doing? I noticed a lot of problems other people reporting like the no pin dialog. Looking at the device qpe uses 100% CPU for a long time. I don't understand it but the CPU usage of qpe is capable to slow down other things extremely. The SIM Pin dialog is working with the new firmware but delayed through qpe. Holger Freyther gave me the hint that it is looking for media on the SD card. In /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf That is one possible thing it is doing at startup. The idea is that it is a phone, and you only startup in rare instances. If we take a stable phone than you are right. If you develop a phone for only developers, then thats what you get. A phone that only a small niche of developers are going to want to use. But at the moment people need to start often and that leads to a situation where these settings confuse a lot of people. Then take the SD card entry out of the conf file. It is even there if you start your phone the first time. To raise user experience this search should be delayed and it should be assured that this search is happening on a very low priority so it does not block anything. There could be even an indicator that is visually announcing the search. But let us be realistic :) there is a section where qpe is configured for the media it should search. For the SD card every media type is activated. So the qpe searches the SD card after booting blocking a lot of other things. There are two issues for me: - it is discussable if these settings are useful as default to search for media on the SD card. While being troublesome I would be against it If Qtopia is not allowed to search the SD card, it will not be able to see/use files on it, so then why have it at all? Because there is always something in between black and white. There could be some intelligent way to detect when it is necessary to refresh. And users are quite used to know that software is stupid and they praise the existence of a manual trigger for such actions. The trigger is someone booting up, or inserting the SD card. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No pin dialog/ qpe
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 03:26 +1000, Lorn Potter wrote: Norbert Hartl wrote: On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 21:01 +1000, Lorn Potter wrote: Norbert Hartl wrote: What is qpe exactly doing? I noticed a lot of problems other people reporting like the no pin dialog. Looking at the device qpe uses 100% CPU for a long time. I don't understand it but the CPU usage of qpe is capable to slow down other things extremely. The SIM Pin dialog is working with the new firmware but delayed through qpe. Holger Freyther gave me the hint that it is looking for media on the SD card. In /opt/Qtopia/etc/default/Trolltech/Storage.conf That is one possible thing it is doing at startup. The idea is that it is a phone, and you only startup in rare instances. If we take a stable phone than you are right. If you develop a phone for only developers, then thats what you get. A phone that only a small niche of developers are going to want to use. Are you serious? It is no end-user device right now. The behaviour at the moment prevents a lot of people to work with the freerunner (use it as a phone) and therefor prevents acceptance. This change is so easy to revert if the situation changes that I can't understand what you are saying. In my understanding you are forcing a situation which you state you want to avoid. But at the moment people need to start often and that leads to a situation where these settings confuse a lot of people. Then take the SD card entry out of the conf file. I have fixed it already on my freerunner. I just like to give feedback to the community. In my opinion discussions make sense. I find something, some discuss it and if it is a good idea than maybe a few take responsibility and change the code base. If it doesn't work that way I don't understand the whole thing. There is no need trying to teach me, thank you. It is even there if you start your phone the first time. To raise user experience this search should be delayed and it should be assured that this search is happening on a very low priority so it does not block anything. There could be even an indicator that is visually announcing the search. But let us be realistic :) there is a section where qpe is configured for the media it should search. For the SD card every media type is activated. So the qpe searches the SD card after booting blocking a lot of other things. There are two issues for me: - it is discussable if these settings are useful as default to search for media on the SD card. While being troublesome I would be against it If Qtopia is not allowed to search the SD card, it will not be able to see/use files on it, so then why have it at all? Because there is always something in between black and white. There could be some intelligent way to detect when it is necessary to refresh. And users are quite used to know that software is stupid and they praise the existence of a manual trigger for such actions. The trigger is someone booting up, or inserting the SD card. Then you know exactly what it does. What happens if a file is downloaded from the internet and stored on the SD card? Does qpe recognizes this as well? No matter what the answer is the current situation is not optimal. And I would like to hear rather a proposal how to treat that instead of getting an explanation about how _it_ works [tm]. Thanks again! regards, Norbert ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
