Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
E.g.: I've used a Sidekick and now use a Nokia 9500 intensivly, and I seldom go over 1-2MB per day (despite it having EGPRS, which is a qualitive jump). ...In Canada, at $.03 per kb, 1-2 mb per day would add up to somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000-2000/month. We have awful data plans here because the telcos were protected monopolies until recently (and are run by jerks). At $.03 per kb there's not much you can do with the internet without going bankrupt, unless you really get a kick out of pinging things occasionally. Anyhow, I've been thinking about it, and at 9600 baud or whatever it wouldn't be worth bothering with. I think what I'll do is build a little pocket sized battery powered usb hub with an attached usb 802.11 dongle. While I'm at it, I'll probably put an sd card reader and an extra usb port or two on it as well. It could be kept pretty small by custom building it in an altoids case or something. Thanks for the CSD info though, that's interesting. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
* Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070112 17:38]: In the meantime, I was thinking about how I could get around the lack of wifi last night and something occurred to me... Would it be possible with this phone to set up a PPP dialup server on my machine at home, and get dialup access to the internet by calling my home number? This would be a lot cheaper than downloading via GPRS because Canadian wireless carriers are all apparently run by a bunch of jerks. Would any extra hardware (eg: a modem) have to be built into the phone in order to get PPP dialup access this way, or could it just be done through software? If hardware is needed, is it too late to consider adding it to the specs? Yes it is possible, it's called CSD (circuit switched data). The problem here is, that you will need to place data calls to a landline, not voice calls. How these are billed depends upon your network. Just doing a data call over a voice call is no really feasible. Additionally, CSD connections range in the area of 9600-14400 bps (depending upon error rate, etc.). Having worked with this speed a year ago, because my DSL was broken, I can certify that this makes for a quite different network experience that what we are used nowadays. There is a significant quality improvement going from CSD to HSCSD (HS high speed) or GPRS. Both of these are things that are easily to differate out by the operator, so you need to rely on their pricing :( There any other non-obvious options for Internet access with this phone that don't involve GPRS? I suppose IP over Avian Carriers would work... Well, you've got: GPRS CSD (probably HSCSD) Bluetooth (pan and potentially other profiles) USB (needs external power injector, again, ethernet emulation or serial emulation with ppp on top) The one open question is what one can get from MicroSD slot. I apologize if this has come up on the list before, I didn't read every message. Well, there aren't that many messages. Plus, please before claiming that data plans are unreasonable (they are, but that's a different discussion) expensive, consider what you might want to do with this: *) hacking code (generic internet usage): small display, small cpu, no keyboard. Not really. *) Websurfing (http/https/(x)html/flash): only GPRS, really, you won't be using it for stuff if it's not needed. *) Email: Quite feasible with GPRS speeds, but doesn't need extreme data amounts. *) multimedia downloads (mp3): 3MB = minimum transfer time over 10 minutes. Basically with a 128kbps stream, gprs needs about 3 seconds to fetch the data for one second realtime. Combined that you need a MicroSD card anyway for storage of these, you will end up loading the data via the card. So basically, between the non-flat price structure, the speeds of GPRS (which are at best POTS modem speeds), and the fact that you will be doing mostly interactive stuff with a phone, one doesn't need that many MBs. E.g.: I've used a Sidekick and now use a Nokia 9500 intensivly, and I seldom go over 1-2MB per day (despite it having EGPRS, which is a qualitive jump). OTOH, it's trivial to use up hundreds of MB with an UMTS data card stuck in a laptop. But that's different usage, on a different hardware. Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
* Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070113 17:58]: E.g.: I've used a Sidekick and now use a Nokia 9500 intensivly, and I seldom go over 1-2MB per day (despite it having EGPRS, which is a qualitive jump). ...In Canada, at $.03 per kb, 1-2 mb per day would add up to somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000-2000/month. We have awful data plans here because the telcos were protected monopolies until recently (and are run by jerks). At $.03 per kb there's not much you can do with the internet without going bankrupt, unless you really get a kick out of pinging things occasionally. Checking out the stuff, I just noticed that there seems to be no UMTS roaming there? Just wondering does .ca has UMTS networks? (GSM I do know, because the triband mobiles did work last time I was in .ca, which was around 2000) Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
On 1/13/07, Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyhow, I've been thinking about it, and at 9600 baud or whatever it wouldn't be worth bothering with. I think what I'll do is build a little pocket sized battery powered usb hub with an attached usb 802.11 dongle. While I'm at it, I'll probably put an sd card reader and an extra usb port or two on it as well. It could be kept pretty small by custom building it in an altoids case or something. You're in Toronto too? I'd buy one! With regards the home dialup/modem/proxy idea.. I thought it should be possible to strip+optimise content (e.g. images sent rescaled) and thus reduce required bandwidth. Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
* Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070113 17:58]: E.g.: I've used a Sidekick and now use a Nokia 9500 intensivly, and I seldom go over 1-2MB per day (despite it having EGPRS, which is a qualitive jump). ...In Canada, at $.03 per kb, 1-2 mb per day would add up to somewhere Well, that's about a factor of two magnitudes more expensive then herearound. Technically speaking, I pay EUR8/MB when ROAMING in Germany with an Austrian SIM, and EUR11/MB when I roam with a German SIM in Austria. One thing that you might consider is, if going with a SIM from abroad might be not cheaper. (E.g. roaming with my Austrian T-Mobile SIM card would be cost EUR15/MB in Canada. *g* Remembering the joys of roaming: People call you in the night because they don't know about the timezone you are in.) Andreas in the neighborhood of $1000-2000/month. We have awful data plans That's probably to expensive for most people, which again kills they calculation. At least our local telcos started to comprehending that they need a mass market product to recoup the fees they paid for the UMTS licenses ;) Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
On 1/12/07, Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi... I just stumbled across this project yesterday while getting over my disappointment at the announcements that the iPhone would be a closed system Feel free to help others stumble upon this project. There any other non-obvious options for Internet access with this phone that don't involve GPRS? I suppose IP over Avian Carriers would work... See: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMokoIdeasWithWiFi /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
There is going to be bluetooth on the phone. The range is small, but the possibility of a bluetooth to wifi adaptor might be interesting... Maybe something small enough to clip on a belt. Then connect to it through bluetooth and have it connect to wifi and redirect network traffic. I am sure its possible.. Has anyone ever heard of anything like that? Thanks, --Tim On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 9:15, Rob wrote: Hi... I just stumbled across this project yesterday while getting over my disappointment at the announcements that the iPhone would be a closed system - not a surprising announcement at all, but disappointing nonetheless. Anyhow, I'm pretty fired up about this project now that I've come across it. I've been hoping for a truly open phone for years, thanks for making it happen. It's a shame it won't have wifi, as that would make the device incredibly useful to me... It would be amazing to be able to make VoIP calls when a 802.11 is available, and data plans from celphone carriers in Canada are really expensive. There's wireless all over downtown Toronto now though, and it would be great to have a phone that could use it. The combination of gps and wireless would make it possible to do some pretty cool stuff with maps. I'm sure it's been said ad nauseam, but this would really be an amazing product with wifi. I'm just sayin', is all... Anyhow, even without wifi I'll probably be lining up to buy one of these things even if only to show that there is a market for an open phone - I'll hope there's wifi in v2. In the meantime, I was thinking about how I could get around the lack of wifi last night and something occurred to me... Would it be possible with this phone to set up a PPP dialup server on my machine at home, and get dialup access to the internet by calling my home number? This would be a lot cheaper than downloading via GPRS because Canadian wireless carriers are all apparently run by a bunch of jerks. Would any extra hardware (eg: a modem) have to be built into the phone in order to get PPP dialup access this way, or could it just be done through software? If hardware is needed, is it too late to consider adding it to the specs? There any other non-obvious options for Internet access with this phone that don't involve GPRS? I suppose IP over Avian Carriers would work... I apologize if this has come up on the list before, I didn't read every message. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
Maybe something small enough to clip on a belt. Then connect to it through bluetooth and have it connect to wifi and redirect network traffic. I am sure its possible.. Has anyone ever heard of anything like that? Something like this DID exist, the PX20: http://www.blueunplugged.com/p.aspx?p=105816 Launched in 2002 by a company called Possio, it seems to have instantly faded away, despite plenty of hype when they unveiled it. Possio don't make anything particularly similar any more ( www.possio.com). It allowed Bluetooth devices access to WLAN networks and looks as though it was based on an embedded Java web server, and was apparently pretty cheap. It wasn't quite ideal - relatively compact but not comfortably pocket-sized, and although it has an internal battery it was designed to plug into the mains most of the time. As for something available today, there's this seriously OTT option: http://www.ipwireless.com/products/mobile_bband_gateway.html The mobile broadband gateway is a slim, pocket-sized router that creates bluetooth and wifi networks and bridges them to a UMTS-TDD data network, so that your bluetooth and wifi devices can connect to a UMTS-TDD network wherever you go. It doesn't say that it could bridge wireless and bluetooth connections together but it's got all the right bits so I bet it could be made to. I don't know anything about it but it looks very, very expensive. I haven't spotted anything feasable on the web. It's worth bearing in mind that wifi is a considerable power drain, and bluetooth isn't that great itself, so I'd imagine this device would have to have a fair-sized battery, and would need to be recharged frequently. However, it would certainly be possible to hack something together by taking any embedded Linux project with USB (ie a gumstix http://www.gumstix.com) and adding wireless and bluetooth dongles, then setting it up to bridge the two connections. Gumstix aren't cheap though. I reckon modding a wireless usb dongle to be internally powered is the way to go. Justyn ps something went wrong sending the first time, so apologies if anyone has received this message twice. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
