Re: Sean's Aim...
On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 23:55 +, Justyn Butler wrote: I agree that something, anything, that will help me justify upgrading my phone every six months is needed. In my case I particularly feel the need for 3G but I want to get building right now, on v1. I'd personally settle for a minor discount on the next version for so called early adopters. But then I don't know what profit margin FIC is selling these things at. Justyn It is cool that Sean is an honest guy and I believe that the project has good intention. The one thing this list can do is figure out the clear aims/goals of the community. Please help do this on the temp wiki: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Community I think good sections would be Mission/Goal (1 sentence) and then also ways people can get involved. Jon On 21/01/07, Steve Grevemeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is 1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo or 2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while exploiting geeks like us to achieve his goal :-) I bet the second will prove as true... Milan The great thing about a free and open platform is that these two aims are NOT mutually exclusive! Frankly, I can't wait for one of these things -- and I hope that Sean and FIC make so much money they get compared to Microsoft! It costs a ton of money to design, test, and build hardware. It costs even MORE for software. :) The open approach dramatically reduces this cost, improves the product, and increases the overall profitability to the manufacturer. And just WAIT until the as-yet-unimagined killer app shows up! Anyone who thinks these devices are going to be cheap needs to wake up. (I'll avoid the banal free as in beer vs free as in speech converstation) What these devices need to be is affordable. $350 w/ accessories? That is actually CHEAP. My Treo cost more then that base, then I had to buy accessories! The one idea I did see in the last couple of days that I think NEED to get some serious attention is that of an upgrade path for developers. I have zero problem with the cost of the device or its capabilities for Rev1. The old Don't worry, be crappy philosophy is perfect. That and churn, baby, churn. Upgrade the unit continuously. The problem is that it gets REALLY expensive to try to keep up. Need a way to recycle the units. I'll throw out the following (going to need asbestos underwear for the flames THIS will generate): a) a formal developers program. Maybe modeled on the M$ partner program. A small yearly fee and formal registration. Not that developers are riff-raff or anything but motivation is a huge portion of this kind of development. b) Formal developers get first crack at new hardware. This concept is already being espoused -- I just think that it will need to be formalized at some point. c) An Upgrade path to facilitate continued development. Basically, when the new version comes out I send the old one back along with a reasonable upgrade fee and I get the new model. Benefits to the Developer: - access to the newest, best hardware - preservation of investment $ - credit and recognition within the community Benefits to FIC: - information on active developers - targeted audience for feedback/evaluation. I like open forums but sometime you need things a bit more focused. - Beta-test system! Both for FIC and for the community in general. Of course, I'll get the obvious what about all the developers that get excluded since they don't/won't/can't spend the money. The advantage of a formal program is that it is very easy to create an informal program. FIC/Some Vendor/Somebody can easily sponsor a developer. I.e. Somebody buys one of these units and shows they they rock, someone can step up and help them out. I've already seen stuff about getting units in the hand of select developers... The single hardest think in open source development is keeping the eye
Re: Sean's Aim...
I agree that something, anything, that will help me justify upgrading my phone every six months is needed. In my case I particularly feel the need for 3G but I want to get building right now, on v1. I'd personally settle for a minor discount on the next version for so called early adopters. But then I don't know what profit margin FIC is selling these things at. Justyn On 21/01/07, Steve Grevemeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is 1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo or 2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while exploiting geeks like us to achieve his goal :-) I bet the second will prove as true... Milan The great thing about a free and open platform is that these two aims are NOT mutually exclusive! Frankly, I can't wait for one of these things -- and I hope that Sean and FIC make so much money they get compared to Microsoft! It costs a ton of money to design, test, and build hardware. It costs even MORE for software. :) The open approach dramatically reduces this cost, improves the product, and increases the overall profitability to the manufacturer. And just WAIT until the as-yet-unimagined killer app shows up! Anyone who thinks these devices are going to be cheap needs to wake up. (I'll avoid the banal free as in beer vs free as in speech converstation) What these devices need to be is affordable. $350 w/ accessories? That is actually CHEAP. My Treo cost more then that base, then I had to buy accessories! The one idea I did see in the last couple of days that I think NEED to get some serious attention is that of an upgrade path for developers. I have zero problem with the cost of the device or its capabilities for Rev1. The old Don't worry, be crappy philosophy is perfect. That and churn, baby, churn. Upgrade the unit continuously. The problem is that it gets REALLY expensive to try to keep up. Need a way to recycle the units. I'll throw out the following (going to need asbestos underwear for the flames THIS will generate): a) a formal developers program. Maybe modeled on the M$ partner program. A small yearly fee and formal registration. Not that developers are riff-raff or anything but motivation is a huge portion of this kind of development. b) Formal developers get first crack at new hardware. This concept is already being espoused -- I just think that it will need to be formalized at some point. c) An Upgrade path to facilitate continued development. Basically, when the new version comes out I send the old one back along with a reasonable upgrade fee and I get the new model. Benefits to the Developer: - access to the newest, best hardware - preservation of investment $ - credit and recognition within the community Benefits to FIC: - information on active developers - targeted audience for feedback/evaluation. I like open forums but sometime you need things a bit more focused. - Beta-test system! Both for FIC and for the community in general. Of course, I'll get the obvious what about all the developers that get excluded since they don't/won't/can't spend the money. The advantage of a formal program is that it is very easy to create an informal program. FIC/Some Vendor/Somebody can easily sponsor a developer. I.e. Somebody buys one of these units and shows they they rock, someone can step up and help them out. I've already seen stuff about getting units in the hand of select developers... The single hardest think in open source development is keeping the eye on the ball. Everyone has their own pet thing, and ensuring that the overall project is not derailed by a single aspect is incredibly hard. I think the recent thread regarding WiFi is an excellent example. The communities biggest challenge will be getting applications done and fielded at the best possible rate. Someone is going to have to take a lead role and try to identify the applications that have the biggest need from the myriad of great ideas. A little focus goes a long way in getting things DONE. Well, I've babbled enough for now. :) -seg Steve Grevemeyer ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's Aim...
On 1/22/07 6:38 AM, Steve Grevemeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The one idea I did see in the last couple of days that I think NEED to get some serious attention is that of an upgrade path for developers. I promise not to leave you guys hanging. I just don't have a good plan worked out yet. Lucky for me I still have time ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's Aim...
On 22/01/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I promise not to leave you guys hanging. I just don't have a good plan worked out yet. Lucky for me I still have time ;-) -Sean That's good enough for me, thanks Sean. Justyn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
