Re: Support for Left handers
Gilles Casse [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Le dimanche 15 juillet 2007 à 20:43 +0100, Giles Jones a écrit : I don't think the visually impaired would be able to use the device anyway. It is not obvious, but I am confident that with good willing people it will become a reality. The touchscreen is more of a problem than anything else; a friend of mine uses a Nokia with some Symbian app that speaks the UI and SMSes, and he can feel the keys just fine... if the wheel can be clicked too, that might be enough, maybe. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Giles Jones schrieb: Other things you need to consider is colour blindness, don't rely on colour too much to distinguish buttons. These are all basic HCI issues, I have an interest in such things. Indeed. I am colorblind and I would really appreaciate it if the UI wouldn't rely on red vs. green to distinguish things like online/offline users and such. And there are loads of colorblind people out there. One look into Wikipedia might help a lot and of course there are even more elaborate sources to extract helpful information from. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 15 Jul 2007, at 13:48, Alexander Gabriel wrote: Indeed. I am colorblind and I would really appreaciate it if the UI wouldn't rely on red vs. green to distinguish things like online/offline users and such. And there are loads of colorblind people out there. One look into Wikipedia might help a lot and of course there are even more elaborate sources to extract helpful information from. Yeah, it's always better to use different shapes and have a large difference in contrast. Blue is the colour which people have the most trouble with, men are more likely to have colour blindness too. Accessibility options are one way you can broaden the appeal of a device such as this. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Hello, I heard that red/green colour 'illness' (the most colourblind people just can't see any difference between red and green or blue and green, like me:P). So one could just avoid these colours to make differences.. For example in gaim on the maemo platform people who have written are marked as red and the others green, or vice versa, I have no idea actually as I can't see it ;). But it is very annoying... Shouldn't be hard to look out for :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Alexander Gabriel wrote: Giles Jones schrieb: Other things you need to consider is colour blindness, don't rely on colour too much to distinguish buttons. These are all basic HCI issues, I have an interest in such things. I am colorblind and I would really appreaciate it if the UI wouldn't rely on red vs. green to distinguish things like online/offline users To an extent. With a device this small, removing a significant part of the colour gamut that can be used for distingushing states is a bad thing. Sometimes it's practical to do this, and where it can be done it's a good thing. With a screen this small, some users with various disabilities (poor sight, poor coordination, ...) may simply be unable to use many of the applications. Some of this can be done simply, and without significant compromise - for example, there may be colourblind themes, swapping Indicate on=green for Indicate on=blue. The approach _must_ not be to compromise significantly by making every screen usable by everyone. It must be to make every screen most usable by the average user, with average sight and abilities, holding the phone at an average distance. Then customise so that it's usable by the largest groups of disabled in order of potential users. (poor sight, poor dexterity, red/green colour blindness, ...) It will do the disabled far more good IMO if it's a widely spread platform that can be easily altered to their needs, rather than a platform that is slower to take off, because things do not work the way the average user expects. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Sorry, I meant to send this to the list. -- Forwarded message -- From: Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Jul 15, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: Re: Support for Left handers To: Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 7/15/07, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alexander Gabriel wrote: I am colorblind and I would really appreaciate it if the UI wouldn't rely on red vs. green to distinguish things like online/offline users To an extent. With a device this small, removing a significant part of the colour gamut that can be used for distingushing states is a bad thing. Sometimes it's practical to do this, and where it can be done it's a good thing. Please - don't talk about removing things (like color). Just use your imagination - if you are making an indicator (offline / online for example), think about other ways you can make the state of the indicator visible in _addition_ to color. An offlline indicator could have a broken image, or an image with a cross or a stop sign over it for example. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Le dimanche 15 juillet 2007 à 20:43 +0100, Giles Jones a écrit : I don't think the visually impaired would be able to use the device anyway. It is not obvious, but I am confident that with good willing people it will become a reality. Gilles -- Oralux.org http://association.oralux.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Alexander I am colorblind and I would really appreaciate it if the UI wouldn't rely on red vs. green to distinguish things like online/offline users and such. fwiw I added this to the colors recommendation in ui guidelines. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_UI_Design_Recommendations Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Support for Left handers
Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
I have noticed some suggestions for managing the touchscreen which would be difficult for people lacking part of an important finger. Arthriticky tendencies in those remaining wont help either sigh Hoping for easy stylus management... clare On 7/14/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. I agree with this. As a lefty on the N800, this can become quite a pain. One nice thing about the N800 interface is inside the webrowser you can scroll anywhere in the window like your moving a piece of paper. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
I am left handed. Considerations of this sort could be a great feature for the Neo. -Jason On Saturday 14 July 2007 07:18:10 Giles Jones wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. On 7/14/07, Edwin Lock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 14 Jul 2007, at 17:57, Edwin Lock wrote: I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) Indeed, many vendors overlook such things. I'm amazed Microsoft did too, isn't Bill Gates left handed? Other things you need to consider is colour blindness, don't rely on colour too much to distinguish buttons. These are all basic HCI issues, I have an interest in such things. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. I don't think the whole screen should be mirrored! There are some elements that should remain..like the main top bar with the status icons and such. Scrollbars are the main thing I can think of right now. I agree a wiki page should be added for left handed ui discussion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
I would agree, I didn't really think when saying it should be mirrored ;) I thought about it and at the moment I think only the scrollbar should be changed.. But I am still a little confused about how an application gets closed? I can't see an X anywhere, and I couldn't find any information in the wiki just now.. Because that might be handier on the left-hand side too if it isn't already.. Just my 0,02€ ;) OT: Anyone have information about emulating openmoko in OS X? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Added section for a left-handed mode to the UI Improvements page. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Left-handed_UI_Support Regards, Jason1 On Saturday 14 July 2007 13:21:33 Jae Stutzman wrote: On 7/14/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. I don't think the whole screen should be mirrored! There are some elements that should remain..like the main top bar with the status icons and such. Scrollbars are the main thing I can think of right now. I agree a wiki page should be added for left handed ui discussion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Shouldn't the spinner thing replace scrollbars, though? What else would it be for? On 7/14/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. On 7/14/07, Edwin Lock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
All finger buttons should be easily usable with a stylus. We are not the iPhone. On 7/14/07, Clare Johnstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have noticed some suggestions for managing the touchscreen which would be difficult for people lacking part of an important finger. Arthriticky tendencies in those remaining wont help either sigh Hoping for easy stylus management... clare On 7/14/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Joe Friedrichsen writes: On 7/14/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shouldn't the spinner thing replace scrollbars, though? What else would it be for? Here here! I very much like the idea of not having scrollbars. If anything, maybe a narrow indicator that shows relative position in the document. We have a *touch screen* folks! Why use a widget that was made to replace tactile interaction when the whole screen can be a widget? Seems like a little overly zealous retrofitting. . . This carburettor will fit on the electric car, dag nab it! ;-) Having the scrollbar as an indicator of relative position in the document is really helpful. I'm afraid I missed the message describing the spinner thing and a quick look in the archive didn't turn it up -- how would it work? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Clare Johnstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/15/07, Joe Friedrichsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . We have a *touch screen* folks! Why use a widget that was made to replace tactile interaction when the whole screen can be a widget? Seems like a little overly zealous retrofitting. . . This carburettor will fit on the electric car, dag nab it! ;-) quite, Acrobat does it, But even better my laptop has a synaptics touchpad, and Seamonkey can make use of it. stroke up and down the right side to scroll the web page, stroke across the bottom to zoom or unzoom. (But it is a bit sensitive, I hate the thought of accidentally dialling someone due to a slight tremor of my finger.) clare ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community the only down side I see to this is fixing all the OE apps that use scrollbars... that said, I really like this idea from a UI standpoint... it's easier to make circular motions with your fingers than straight lines, scrollbars work good with a mouse since it's easier to move in straight lines with one. we need a way to select which on-screen item to scroll if there's more than one (for simplicity's sake this should be a rare occurance... but web sites love scrollable elements). but it should be really easy to switch from hand to hand... just have a right and left mirrored scroll widget, and skin that bottom bar so it can exist either on the left or right hand side of the screen... there should be a way to make the spinner minimize... it does eat a lot of screen resolution... I'd try it but before I got Qemu working, X kind of ate it on my box, and I've been confined to the windows laptop I get from work... they won't even let me set it up to dual-boot -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we need a way to select which on-screen item to scroll if there's more than one (for simplicity's sake this should be a rare occurance... but web sites love scrollable elements). Yes, good point; and there is one method already. Have you ever edited a long passage in a text box on some web site? A Wiki page, or blog entry, or holiday email come to mind. And when editing, did the mouse have a scroll wheel? How did scrolling change depending on the location of the mouse pointer? (man, what a bunch of rhetorical questions, sorry) We can adapt that behavior to the Neo. Finger moving in the text box? Then scroll that. Finger moving in the document? Then scroll that. For later devices it will be important to have scroll bars as they may not have touch screens. But use the hardware while we've got it! Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
