Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 03:53:17AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: Josef Wolf skrev: On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 07:49:43PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: [ ... ] Not much faster I'm afraid, but a new version available at the same place: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Lars, can you please explain what you mean how this new 12-chars-per-key system works? Pretty simple, You have 12 key (3x4 array) and ether tap a key or press it and drag to any of the other 11 keys - 12 functions. It's extendible - If You add a column of keys You got 15 keys with 15 functions. Actually plan on letting the user (and possibly apps) customize the keyboard in part - that may include adding extra columns :-) Ah, OK. But don't this have the drawback that it is not possible to show the positions second-level characters in advance? So you have to guess which key to press to find out whether the character you look for is on the second level of the key you pressed. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Moin, Am Mon, 3 Sep 2007 08:52:45 +0200 schrieb pHilipp Zabel: The python-pygtk package should now depend on -pygobject and -pycairo and I moved the .pc file out of python-pygobject, so it shouldn't depend on libglib-2.0-dev anymore. Could you rebuild and test those three packages, please? Ah, that's better, thanks. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Moin, Am Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:53:17 +0200 schrieb Lars Hallberg: Over to Your problem. Your Python is probably to old. According to the python docs (3.6.1 String Methods) You need python 2.5: I had the same problem and whipped up a quick partition(). Works ok for me (patch attached). -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ --- key2key.py.old 2007-09-02 20:10:56.0 +0200 +++ key2key.py 2007-09-05 10:38:39.0 +0200 @@ -12,6 +12,12 @@ scale = scale * 4.0 / cols hscale = hscale * scale +def partition(s, sep): +if sep in s: +a,b = s.split(sep,1) +return (a,sep,b) +else: return (s, ,) + keymap = [ [ # What function each 'key' vill have [ [1:@#$\, ', \, `, x, x ], [@, $, %, ~, x, x ], @@ -97,7 +103,7 @@ def build_label(self, l): p = pango.AttrList() -(ll, sep, s) = l.partition(:) +(ll, sep, s) = partition(l,:) if sep == :: l = \n.join([ll, s]) p.insert(pango.AttrScale(hscale, 0, len(ll))) @@ -168,7 +174,7 @@ c = keymap[row][col][ii][jj] if (ii == row) and (jj == col): -(c, text, t) = c.partition(:) +(c, text, t) = partition(c,:) text = c if c == enter: self.txt.insert_at_cursor(\n) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Josef Wolf skrev: On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 03:53:17AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: Pretty simple, You have 12 key (3x4 array) and ether tap a key or press it and drag to any of the other 11 keys - 12 functions. It's extendible - If You add a column of keys You got 15 keys with 15 functions. Actually plan on letting the user (and possibly apps) customize the keyboard in part - that may include adding extra columns :-) Ah, OK. But don't this have the drawback that it is not possible to show the positions second-level characters in advance? So you have to guess which key to press to find out whether the character you look for is on the second level of the key you pressed. Yes, kind of. You can show the most common (letters, numbers). You can try to group them logically and show a mnemonic hint at what characters are there (ie ,. - punctuation) You can cancel a key press by dragging outside the keyboard to assist in searching. But in the end is all about learning. To be really fast You need to learn the secondary key position so You can start the 'stroke' at once. In practice it don't appear to be as much of a problem as it sounds :-) You learn what You use often fast and the rest is rare enough to not be too troubling. The key layout is not yet in any way optimal, and only in 'numlock' version. To ease learning I believe the difference between numlock and not should be minimal... Like swap the number and the most used letter on each key... Stuff away 1 and 2 on 1, and pulling up the two most used letters left to those positions. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 07:49:43PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: [ ... ] Not much faster I'm afraid, but a new version available at the same place: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Lars, can you please explain what you mean how this new 12-chars-per-key system works? I have tried to run this on my suse-box (no more neo's available :-(): [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ./key2key.py Traceback (most recent call last): File ./key2key.py, line 271, in ? tmfexample = Key2KeyKeyboardTest() File ./key2key.py, line 243, in __init__ l = self.build_label(k[i][j]) File ./key2key.py, line 100, in build_label (ll, sep, s) = l.partition(:) AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'partition' [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Josef Wolf wrote: On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 07:49:43PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: [ ... ] Not much faster I'm afraid, but a new version available at the same place: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Lars, can you please explain what you mean how this new 12-chars-per-key system works? I have tried to run this on my suse-box (no more neo's available :-(): Use Pythin 2.5. The partition method is introduced in version 2.5 python2.5 key2key.py on my debian box. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Josef Wolf skrev: On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 07:49:43PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: [ ... ] Not much faster I'm afraid, but a new version available at the same place: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Lars, can you please explain what you mean how this new 12-chars-per-key system works? Pretty simple, You have 12 key (3x4 array) and ether tap a key or press it and drag to any of the other 11 keys - 12 functions. It's extendible - If You add a column of keys You got 15 keys with 15 functions. Actually plan on letting the user (and possibly apps) customize the keyboard in part - that may include adding extra columns :-) Over to Your problem. Your Python is probably to old. According to the python docs (3.6.1 String Methods) You need python 2.5: partition(sep) Split the string at the first occurrence of sep, and return a 3-tuple containing the part before the separator, the separator itself, and the part after the separator. If the separator is not found, return a 3-tuple containing the string itself, followed by two empty strings. New in version 2.5. It's probably more stuff that needs fresh versions. Sorry. /LaH I have tried to run this on my suse-box (no more neo's available :-(): [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ./key2key.py Traceback (most recent call last): File ./key2key.py, line 271, in ? tmfexample = Key2KeyKeyboardTest() File ./key2key.py, line 243, in __init__ l = self.build_label(k[i][j]) File ./key2key.py, line 100, in build_label (ll, sep, s) = l.partition(:) AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'partition' [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
On 9/3/07, Henryk Plötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moin, Am Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:12:00 +0200 schrieb Lars Hallberg: Both demos can easily be adjusted between 3x4 to 3x6 keys to test the feel. I don't know hove easy it is to get a PyGTK demo running on the phone... and they probably perform horribly. But I would be grateful for any report on hove easy the keys and strokes are to hit. Hmm, I just ran it on a Neo and seems to work okay. The biggest problem is that switching to the second set of displayed keys is awfully slow. Apart from that it's only missing some optimizations of the layout. (For example: Backspace absolutely needs to be a main key. Nobody needs ^ as a main key.) In order to run it on a Neo you need to install python-pygtk, python-pygobject (might need ipkg install -force-overwrite since it pulls in libc6-dev, but that's another story) and python-pycairo. The python-pygtk package should now depend on -pygobject and -pycairo and I moved the .pc file out of python-pygobject, so it shouldn't depend on libglib-2.0-dev anymore. Could you rebuild and test those three packages, please? cheers Philipp ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Henryk Plötz skrev: Moin, Hmm, I just ran it on a Neo and seems to work okay. The biggest problem is that switching to the second set of displayed keys is awfully slow. Yes... I believe it's the text rendering. dreamingWish gtk.Label had a flag 'cash_rendering' and maybe a method 'pre_render' taking a win as argument so it usable even if the label is not attached to a top level window yet/dreaming Been looking at doing it myself. But I'm a bit of a newbie on the hole thing (gtk, pango, gdk). Have not really figured out how to render according to the gtk style at use. And I'm not sure have important speed is for a demo. Apart from that it's only missing some optimizations of the layout. (For example: Backspace absolutely needs to be a main key. Backspace is important... but a main key when it is only 12 main keys? Figured space and drag back was intuitive. Nobody needs ^ as a main key.) That key, and its 'page' is meant to be user definable, and possibly app dependent... so ju can put backspace there :-) Thanks /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Kristian 'kriss' Mueller skrev: Lars Hallberg wrote: This is a new one (Layout is 'numlock' one): http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Nice idea. Had to change the code a bit, as the UI of the current version fires up the keyboard if a text entry has the focus - see patch. I intentionally gave the text entry focus so the cursor was visible. But it's not worth the keyboard popping up :-) That means You tested it on OpenMoko? On a neo even? Very curious :-p For me it was hard to choose the right finger to tapping, so that a second one could be used for actual selection. It's better to just move one finger and release it at the needed key. Anyway I like the idea. That's the intended use. 'Two' in the subject means it was two demo's :-) I guess one could learn to write short texts quite fast with one hand that way. Yes... When one learn where the secondary keys are and can start the stoke immediately it should be pretty fast. The other demo, with 8 drag directions should be slightly faster as the drag target is closer and bigger. But the neighbouring keys should be OK (close), the keys at the screen edges (especialy the corners) should be ok (big). Some keys in the middle and top may be worse. A god layout should take this in account... The demo have only a quick and ugly layout thou. This key2key system have advantages to. The other demo have problems around the edges of the screen (drag going off screen) and less function per key (9 vs 12). I'm trying to speed it up so it be a while before Your fix comes out. Thanks /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Lars Hallberg schrieb: This is a new one (Layout is 'numlock' one): http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py 12 keys... tap a key for main function. Drag to any of the other keys for 11 secondary functions. A total of 12*12=144 combinations. To much to show... You have to press a key to see the secondary keys. Drag outside the keyboard to cancel a keypress. A bit awkward to begin with... might work fast when You learn to know the most common secondary keys. Know of no patent jet. Old demo: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/keys.py Tap key or drag in any of 8 directions. 9 funktions per key, easier strokes (bigger end target, butt less functions per key may need to be compensated with smaller start target). maybe patent encumbered. Both demos can easily be adjusted between 3x4 to 3x6 keys to test the feel. I don't know hove easy it is to get a PyGTK demo running on the phone... and they probably perform horribly. But I would be grateful for any report on hove easy the keys and strokes are to hit. /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I've tested the input system and it works very well even for a beginner like me. It is very intuitive and after a short time of practice I'm very fast writting with it. It would be interesting to test this system combined with word prediction. Regards, Denis. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Lars Hallberg wrote: This is a new one (Layout is 'numlock' one): http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py denis wrote: I've tested the input system and it works very well even for a beginner like me. It is very intuitive and after a short time of practice I'm very fast writting with it. Though I was skeptical due to the apparent complexity in the description :-) I also found it fairly easy to use even without practice. Nice one, Lars. -Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Moin, Am Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:12:00 +0200 schrieb Lars Hallberg: Both demos can easily be adjusted between 3x4 to 3x6 keys to test the feel. I don't know hove easy it is to get a PyGTK demo running on the phone... and they probably perform horribly. But I would be grateful for any report on hove easy the keys and strokes are to hit. Hmm, I just ran it on a Neo and seems to work okay. The biggest problem is that switching to the second set of displayed keys is awfully slow. Apart from that it's only missing some optimizations of the layout. (For example: Backspace absolutely needs to be a main key. Nobody needs ^ as a main key.) In order to run it on a Neo you need to install python-pygtk, python-pygobject (might need ipkg install -force-overwrite since it pulls in libc6-dev, but that's another story) and python-pycairo. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
