Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
ian douglas wrote: Ken Restivo wrote: They actually hire people to sit around and snoop people's UserAgent strings? It's easy to automate since surfing non-SSL sites should send your HTTP headers in plain text, so they you can simply watch the packets and keep track of data counts, browsers, etc. for each wireless account. Their unlimited data plan used to be $20/month but they raised it to $30 for the new iPhone. Tethering adds even more because they expect that you'll be downloading much more data than users who don't tether. So unlimited data isn't unlimited at all? As far as I've seen, personally, it's unlimited. Of course, I tend not to tether my ATT phone to my laptop and download ISO-sized files or anything. I'm sure if you reach a certain amount of traffic, they'll notice you. Last month I only downloaded about 60MB on my phone. But I'm told that Sprint Metro PCS allows unlimited data, and tethering, for US$60/mo That's slightly cheaper than ATT then, who charges me $69/month for unlimited data plus tethering. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Instead of just tethering couldn't you set up a proxy server on your OM and since the user agent is in plain text, change firefox to minimo? I imagine the user agent signatures are pretty similar. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Matthew Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of just tethering couldn't you set up a proxy server on your OM and since the user agent is in plain text, change firefox to minimo? I imagine the user agent signatures are pretty similar. I had a similar situation with Vodafone in Italy. They disallowed tethering and blocked all non port 80 / 443, and seemed to disallow any other user agent strings besides mobile browesers. But if you have a server somewhere that has SSH, an easy enough solution is just to use ProxyTunnel to tunnel SSH over HTTPS (due to the way SSL proxies work). For the real paranoid, check out SSH over SSL over SSL, where you run your own SSL proxy server, which then gets connected to by the network's proxy, and then forwards everything to your local SSH server. This pretty much makes the traffic indestinguashable from legit SSL traffic. HTH, Federico ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Ken Restivo wrote: They actually hire people to sit around and snoop people's UserAgent strings? It's easy to automate since surfing non-SSL sites should send your HTTP headers in plain text, so they you can simply watch the packets and keep track of data counts, browsers, etc. for each wireless account. Their unlimited data plan used to be $20/month but they raised it to $30 for the new iPhone. Tethering adds even more because they expect that you'll be downloading much more data than users who don't tether. So unlimited data isn't unlimited at all? As far as I've seen, personally, it's unlimited. Of course, I tend not to tether my ATT phone to my laptop and download ISO-sized files or anything. I'm sure if you reach a certain amount of traffic, they'll notice you. Last month I only downloaded about 60MB on my phone. But I'm told that Sprint Metro PCS allows unlimited data, and tethering, for US$60/mo That's slightly cheaper than ATT then, who charges me $69/month for unlimited data plus tethering. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 02:05:53PM -0700, ian douglas wrote: Just don't try tethering (using your phone as a modem) on their cheap data plan, or they'll hit you with overage fees or tell you to convert to the smarthphone plan. Is there a specific limit? How do they *know* you are tethering? What are the overage fees and where are they detailed? Thanks. Steven ** wrote: My understanding is that it's marketing BS and there isn't much (if any) difference between those unlimited data plans. The difference seems to be what ATT is willing to sell you. If you have a crappy old phone, they'll sell you a cheap data plan because they figure you won't use it. If you have a smartphone, they figure you might actually be able to and want to browse the web and therefore charge you more. What I'm thinking of trying is taking my old, crappy flip-phone into the store when asking about data plans. That should get me the cheap plan. Then just pop the SIM card back into my Neo. I'm betting I'll have full internet. Worst case scenario: I'll have to tunnel everything through port 80. -Steven On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Dimitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Ken Restivo wrote: Is there a specific limit? How do they *know* you are tethering? What are the overage fees and where are they detailed? From what I've read, they watch your traffic for things like user agent strings (if they see an HTTP header specifying that you're using Firefox, it's a sure thing you're tethering since Firefox doesn't have a mobile browser yet), or that they watch for traffic levels that exceed your phone's capacity. For example, if you surf and browse more than a few GB of traffic (ie: torrent downloads) chances are good that you're tethering since your phone will only natively hold about 200MB of content plus whatever your SD card will hold. As for overage fees, it's whatever they charge you based on your current plan. For example if you don't HAVE a data plan, they'll hit you with pretty heavy fees. Even at 0.01/kb on the MediaNet plan, they expect all of your content will come through their MediaNet browser. That's $10 per 1 MB of data over their limit, which frankly isn't hard to do these days. Their unlimited data plan used to be $20/month but they raised it to $30 for the new iPhone. Tethering adds even more because they expect that you'll be downloading much more data than users who don't tether. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 09:25:45AM -0700, ian douglas wrote: Ken Restivo wrote: Is there a specific limit? How do they *know* you are tethering? What are the overage fees and where are they detailed? From what I've read, they watch your traffic for things like user agent strings (if they see an HTTP header specifying that you're using Firefox, it's a sure thing you're tethering since Firefox doesn't have a mobile browser yet), or that they watch for traffic levels that exceed your phone's capacity. For example, if you surf and browse more than a few GB of traffic (ie: torrent downloads) chances are good that you're tethering since your phone will only natively hold about 200MB of content plus whatever your SD card will hold. That's bizarre. They actually hire people to sit around and snoop people's UserAgent strings? Kind of NSA-like? If so, ATT has *way* too much money, and their subscribers are paying for the salaries of spies to snoop their own traffic. Seems kinda creepy to me. As for overage fees, it's whatever they charge you based on your current plan. For example if you don't HAVE a data plan, they'll hit you with pretty heavy fees. Even at 0.01/kb on the MediaNet plan, they expect all of your content will come through their MediaNet browser. That's $10 per 1 MB of data over their limit, which frankly isn't hard to do these days. That's unpleasant. Their unlimited data plan used to be $20/month but they raised it to $30 for the new iPhone. Tethering adds even more because they expect that you'll be downloading much more data than users who don't tether. So unlimited data isn't unlimited at all? Never mind Open Source phones, looks like what we need is Open Source carriers. But I'm told that Sprint Metro PCS allows unlimited data, and tethering, for US$60/mo, and also the $30/mo plan is the same thing and people have (I'm told) just paid that and gotten data for free, although I don't remember the details of how they did that. Supposedly that is at DSL speeds too. Alas, Sprint PCS is not GSM, so no dice for FreeRunner owners. -ken ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
I'll try to follow some of other people's instructions (they seem to be scattered all over the place) and see if I can get it working on ATT. I've never tried this before, but if I should be so lucky, I'll create a step-by-step tutorial for others to follow (or maybe write a script to automate the process). I believe SettingsGUI has some features around this issue, so you might want to check into that and help out with that if its feasible .. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
I can do that, if my phone is connected to my home wireless network. Likewise, but it would be nice if we had some dyndns support pre- configured so that Freerunners everywhere could function, rightly so, as pocket-based web servers. I love the idea of being able to see, physically on the screen, whenever someone is downloading something from the webserver in my phone. This would be *Fantastic* for software delivery services for a new realm of independent developers .. ;) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Jay Vaughan wrote, On 30/07/08 09:37: I can do that, if my phone is connected to my home wireless network. Likewise, but it would be nice if we had some dyndns support pre- configured so that Freerunners everywhere could function, rightly so, as pocket-based web servers. I love the idea of being able to see, physically on the screen, whenever someone is downloading something from the webserver in my phone. This would be *Fantastic* for software delivery services for a new realm of independent developers .. ;) Great idea, but might be hit or miss on GPRS networks. e.g. O2 in the UK seem to block ALL incoming connections to GPRS devices, only allowing outbound ones from the GPRS device. Bit of a pain in the application I was using them in. -- Alex. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Thanks for the response regarding the wireless connectivity in a home/business, yes that makes sense and I can connect that way. My question, and apologies for not being specific enough, was to allow the FR to host a website (maybe just w/ redirects or not) and/or an ftp server. Being able to ssh into my phone over the public internet and or serve content would be phenomenal. Has anyone dug into this? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Vaughan Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 1:37 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible? I can do that, if my phone is connected to my home wireless network. Likewise, but it would be nice if we had some dyndns support pre- configured so that Freerunners everywhere could function, rightly so, as pocket-based web servers. I love the idea of being able to see, physically on the screen, whenever someone is downloading something from the webserver in my phone. This would be *Fantastic* for software delivery services for a new realm of independent developers .. ;) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
My question, and apologies for not being specific enough, was to allow the FR to host a website (maybe just w/ redirects or not) and/or an ftp server. Being able to ssh into my phone over the public internet and or serve content would be phenomenal. Has anyone dug into this? i have my freerunner connected to my local WLAN and am ssh'ing into it that way, instead of using the usb-ether approach, and it works very well. quite fun, in fact, to have it stay in the pocket of my shirt and still keep hacking away from the laptop. as long as you can get your freerunner on the WLAN and give it an ip address just like any other host, you can get into it. as far as using it as a web server, for sure openembedded has lighthttp and even a pared down (or is it bloated, i forget?) apache too, so thats entirely feasible. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Jay Vaughan wrote: My question, and apologies for not being specific enough, was to allow the FR to host a website (maybe just w/ redirects or not) and/or an ftp server. Being able to ssh into my phone over the public internet and or serve content would be phenomenal. Has anyone dug into this? i have my freerunner connected to my local WLAN and am ssh'ing into it that way, instead of using the usb-ether approach, and it works very well. quite fun, in fact, to have it stay in the pocket of my shirt and still keep hacking away from the laptop. as long as you can get your freerunner on the WLAN and give it an ip address just like any other host, you can get into it. as far as using it as a web server, for sure openembedded has lighthttp and even a pared down (or is it bloated, i forget?) apache too, so thats entirely feasible. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Thanks Jay ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Which ATT data plans are compatible?
I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? D -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p640134.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
You'll probably need the PDA Personal plan, that's what they recommend to smartphone users, which the Freerunner will qualify as, in their opinion. But GPRS data transfer is still being worked on, so hold off paying the $30/month for unlimited data just yet. -id Dimitri wrote: I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
My understanding is that it's marketing BS and there isn't much (if any) difference between those unlimited data plans. The difference seems to be what ATT is willing to sell you. If you have a crappy old phone, they'll sell you a cheap data plan because they figure you won't use it. If you have a smartphone, they figure you might actually be able to and want to browse the web and therefore charge you more. What I'm thinking of trying is taking my old, crappy flip-phone into the store when asking about data plans. That should get me the cheap plan. Then just pop the SIM card back into my Neo. I'm betting I'll have full internet. Worst case scenario: I'll have to tunnel everything through port 80. -Steven On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Dimitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? D -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p640134.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Just don't try tethering (using your phone as a modem) on their cheap data plan, or they'll hit you with overage fees or tell you to convert to the smarthphone plan. -id Steven ** wrote: My understanding is that it's marketing BS and there isn't much (if any) difference between those unlimited data plans. The difference seems to be what ATT is willing to sell you. If you have a crappy old phone, they'll sell you a cheap data plan because they figure you won't use it. If you have a smartphone, they figure you might actually be able to and want to browse the web and therefore charge you more. What I'm thinking of trying is taking my old, crappy flip-phone into the store when asking about data plans. That should get me the cheap plan. Then just pop the SIM card back into my Neo. I'm betting I'll have full internet. Worst case scenario: I'll have to tunnel everything through port 80. -Steven On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Dimitri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've set up an ATT pay-as-you-go plan, and I'm able to send/receive calls and text messages. (I had to wiggle the sim card for the phone to recognize the att network: a hardware flaw that's been discussed to death.) Which ATT data plans are compatible with the Freerunner? There's a ton of them available, with radically different pricing for unlimited. I see names like PDA Personal, MediaNet, DataConnect, and a bunch of others. Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? D -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p640134.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Ian, When you say GPRS data transfer is still being worked on does that mean it doesn't currently work? I ask because my ATT pay-as-you-go plan has MediaNet data access included, for $.01 / kb. But if I try to connect to a web page, it won't connect. (Using my local WiFi or USB connection, it connects fine.) Could it be an issue with my 3g blazing sim? I would guess no, since it works just fine when making/receiving calls and text messages. Dimitri ian douglas-2 wrote: You'll probably need the PDA Personal plan, that's what they recommend to smartphone users, which the Freerunner will qualify as, in their opinion. But GPRS data transfer is still being worked on, so hold off paying the $30/month for unlimited data just yet. -id Dimitri wrote: Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p640727.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Yes, to my knowledge, GPRS data transfer is not yet automated and not working out-of-the-box. A few people on the list have shared instructions on how they got it to at least connect to their carrier to get an IP address, but I haven't tried it myself on my ATT (contract) SIM yet. -id Dimitri wrote: Ian, When you say GPRS data transfer is still being worked on does that mean it doesn't currently work? I ask because my ATT pay-as-you-go plan has MediaNet data access included, for $.01 / kb. But if I try to connect to a web page, it won't connect. (Using my local WiFi or USB connection, it connects fine.) Could it be an issue with my 3g blazing sim? I would guess no, since it works just fine when making/receiving calls and text messages. Dimitri ian douglas-2 wrote: You'll probably need the PDA Personal plan, that's what they recommend to smartphone users, which the Freerunner will qualify as, in their opinion. But GPRS data transfer is still being worked on, so hold off paying the $30/month for unlimited data just yet. -id Dimitri wrote: Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Excuse me if I have missed previous posts on this... Is it possible to ssh to your phone over public IP space yet? With the ability then to setup a webserver, ftp site, or something similar? cheers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 3:26 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Which ATT data plans are compatible? Yes, to my knowledge, GPRS data transfer is not yet automated and not working out-of-the-box. A few people on the list have shared instructions on how they got it to at least connect to their carrier to get an IP address, but I haven't tried it myself on my ATT (contract) SIM yet. -id Dimitri wrote: Ian, When you say GPRS data transfer is still being worked on does that mean it doesn't currently work? I ask because my ATT pay-as-you-go plan has MediaNet data access included, for $.01 / kb. But if I try to connect to a web page, it won't connect. (Using my local WiFi or USB connection, it connects fine.) Could it be an issue with my 3g blazing sim? I would guess no, since it works just fine when making/receiving calls and text messages. Dimitri ian douglas-2 wrote: You'll probably need the PDA Personal plan, that's what they recommend to smartphone users, which the Freerunner will qualify as, in their opinion. But GPRS data transfer is still being worked on, so hold off paying the $30/month for unlimited data just yet. -id Dimitri wrote: Which ATT data access plans are compatible with Openmoko? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
Josh, Not sure if that question was directed to me or Ian. I assume Ian, but maybe I can take a stab at it. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding, you're asking if it's possible to create an SSH connection to your phone via a wireless network? I can do that, if my phone is connected to my home wireless network. As I recall, on my Ubuntu box, if my phone is connected to my wireless network (via the lint-wifi gui, for example), I can see it on my Ubuntu box by going to Places Network. I can then sftp into the phone. But this may not be what you're asking for. Dimitri Josh Monson wrote: Excuse me if I have missed previous posts on this... Is it possible to ssh to your phone over public IP space yet? With the ability then to setup a webserver, ftp site, or something similar? cheers -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p640870.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Which ATT data plans are compatible?
And, of course, you asked to SSH into your phone, not sftp. D'oh. In this case, using lint-wifi's status tab, you can see what IP your router has assigned to your phone, then open a terminal window and type: ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] for your device] leave the password empty D Dimitri wrote: Josh, Not sure if that question was directed to me or Ian. I assume Ian, but maybe I can take a stab at it. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding, you're asking if it's possible to create an SSH connection to your phone via a wireless network? I can do that, if my phone is connected to my home wireless network. As I recall, on my Ubuntu box, if my phone is connected to my wireless network (via the lint-wifi gui, for example), I can see it on my Ubuntu box by going to Places Network. I can then sftp into the phone. But this may not be what you're asking for. Dimitri Josh Monson wrote: Excuse me if I have missed previous posts on this... Is it possible to ssh to your phone over public IP space yet? With the ability then to setup a webserver, ftp site, or something similar? cheers -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Which-AT-T-data-plans-are-compatible--tp640134p641008.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
