Re: Wifi again
la, 2007-02-17 kello 19:29 -0800, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht kirjoitti: This has been discussed many, many times in the last month. According to Sean, no wifi chips that both are low-power and have open specs. It sounds like the GPS and GSM chips aren't open spec either. That didn't stop them from being included. True, but especially with the GSM chip it's a rather different situation. It's rather hard to make and sell an open GSM stack, unfortunately. I'm willing to view that mostly as an accessory of our free system. As for the GPS, it does seem to be more of a compromise, since it requires the proprietary daemon bit on our otherwise free software running SoC. However, I appreciate that the team are aiming for an open device, but have bootstrapping problems. Also, the daemon in practice is not as intrusive as a WLAN driver would be, even if ideologically they're not much different; at least with the userland daemon there shouldn't be much of an issue in upgrading the rest of the system, esp. the kernel. Hopefully later there will be more choice of good and more open hardware, especially if they can say we sold 2^n of our last phone, so you want to work with us on an even more open version :] (I also suspect that somebody will make an open daemon replacement, but don't have the expertise for that myself; FIC may or may not be able to distribute that sort of thing by default but I'd be happy for simple availability.) I wonder if openmoko could benefit from using whatever the OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) folks are using. That's been mentioned and Sean noted it. It may yet prove fruitful in future OpenMoko devices, yes, but of course I'm also only guessing from a non-FIC standpoint. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
On 2/16/07, Esra Kummer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the Wifi will not be integrated in the first Neo 1973, but is there a chance for a hardware addon? Has someone some information about that? Cheers Esra Neo1973 will have a USB interface capable of connecting to a WiFi adapter. But you will need external power for that adapter (or a powered USB hub) because the phone USB interface is an unpowered one. Regards, Alessandro ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
It would be more of a mistake to have the device delayed for developers for another 3-6 months because they can't get the system to work because it's too complicated with two different types of microwave coming into the same device. My suspicion is that you would be complaining about that too, but which would you be complaining about more - this or that? For what it's worth I am imagining just that situation for my application. Marty Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:24:58 +0300 Alessandro Iurlano wrote: On 2/16/07, *Esra Kummer* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the Wifi will not be integrated in the first Neo 1973, but is there a chance for a hardware addon? Has someone some information about that? Cheers Esra Neo1973 will have a USB interface capable of connecting to a WiFi adapter. But you will need external power for that adapter (or a powered USB hub) because the phone USB interface is an unpowered one. Sounds like a joke. Can you imagine someone using this solution? Except very few (most hardcore) geeks on the planet. Let's remember: mobile phone is a PORTABLE device. Bunch of wires from USB hub + hub + usb adapter will at least make this thingie hardly usable as, er... phone. P.S. As for me, I'm still do not understand, why there is no WI-FI built in. This is a BIG hardware design mistake IMHO. Linux without network is something like North Pole without snow. And the only somehow popular networking in public places is WI-FI. [rest is deleted] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Wifi again
This is a BIG hardware design mistake IMHO. I think you should go right out and build your _own_ phone. Tell us all about it when you get done. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
Am Samstag, 17. Februar 2007 12:24 schrieb t3st3r: P.S. As for me, I'm still do not understand, why there is no WI-FI built in. This is a BIG hardware design mistake IMHO. It does not make sense to complain here about the (missing) hardware features. If you urgently need wifi in a phone take a HTC model where the ACX100 chipset has Linux support (Universal). Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
David Schlesinger wrote: This is a BIG hardware design mistake IMHO. I think you should go right out and build your _own_ phone. Tell us all about it when you get done. Kinda strange reply. I have to admit your reply is completely useless and even looks like an insult. Next time please keep such phrases to yourself, your family, dog or even /dev/null unless you're openmoko official (and if you are, it is ok to unsubscribe me then, since I'm do not like idea to spend my time on peoples who posts useless insults as reply). As for me, I'm want to see openmoko success. I did pointed that lots of people are unhappy that there is no wi-fi (just seen reaction on few linux fan sites). What's wrong? It is forbidden to report weak places which are able to affect project's success? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Another, probably better, option is a bluetooth access point. Yes but it will have insignificant coverage. So it will be hardly limited to my home. Still something and better than nothing. P.S. As for me, I'm still do not understand, why there is no WI-FI built in. This is a BIG hardware design mistake IMHO. Linux without network is something like North Pole without snow. And the only somehow popular networking in public places is WI-FI. This has been discussed many, many times in the last month. According to Sean, no wifi chips that both are low-power and have open specs. Hmm. Sorry for bothering once more then. Much more helpful reply compared to spam from David Schlesinger, thanks :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
Oleg Gusev wrote: Am Samstag, 17. Februar 2007 12:24 schrieb t3st3r: P.S. As for me, I'm still do not understand, why there is no WI-FI built in. This is a BIG hardware design mistake IMHO. It does not make sense to complain here about the (missing) hardware features. Okay, stopping it. If you urgently need wifi in a phone take a HTC model where the ACX100 chipset has Linux support (Universal). Will consider buying it only if they'll use linux by default and if it will not be crippled in bastardized manner. Bastardized means for example, when some assholes we do know better than you what you need can have hardware or proprietary crapware implementations which are prohibiting kernel modifications or software installations - this interferes with GPL spirit even if formally can be ok. And there should be vendor support and reasonable community around so there is dozen of programs ported, etc. Otherwise they're better go to the hell. IIRC, HTC does runs Windows mobile by default and it is too optimistic to assume one people can hack Linux in and then port significant amount of programs in just one face. Maybe it is possible to have some community around it (I heard someone already porting or ported linux to HTC) but I guess projects where Linux is a default OS have much more chances to gain such community, so thing can become somehow popular and succesful. Just compare Nokia 770 vs pocket PC devices hacked to run Linux.What is more popular? Where lots of software and big and helpful community? I guess same case here. I.e. hacking linux to HTC and getting wi-fi to work is not impossible ... but is it really worth of [my] efforts? I guess answer is probably NO. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
Am Samstag, 17. Februar 2007 23:57 schrieb t3st3r: hacking linux to HTC and getting wi-fi to work is not impossible ... The screenshots id=88 and id=89 at http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=3 are showing openmoko running on HTC Universal. WiFi is disabled because (guess(!)) openmoko _GUI_ does not support wifi... Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wifi again
I have added a bit more information to the wiki about the exclusion of wifi. i have tried to summarise the information that was discussed in this thread. Please have a read and edit at will :P hopefully, with this documented in the wiki, if this discussion comes up again, we can point the person who raised it to the QA on the wiki, and it will tell them all they need to know... the wiki link is: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F cheers, ryanlerch email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: http://ryanler.wordpress.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Wifi again
So the Wifi will not be integrated in the first Neo 1973, but is there a chance for a hardware addon? Has someone some information about that? Cheers Esra ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
