Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 11, 2008 12:21 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lon, Will from our office pointed me at these, but that was yesterday and apparently even more have appeared: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 I couldn't help noticing that the takezero.net post reads like it was produced using Markov Chains. Forgive my naivete if this is an inside joke of some kind. I was surprised to see at least one expletive in the post. Perhaps it's a case of digital graffiti? Ken Smith http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE I've added a link to these at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Current_events. If anyone finds more, please add them here. Michael Lon Lentz wrote: Michael, Are you aware of any online sites that might have done any video of this? On Jan 10, 2008 4:20 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, A brief status report from OpenMoko: Consumer Electronics Show, Las Vegas We've just returned from CES where we showed the Neo FreeRunner (GTA02). Although this was still a prototype it performed fairly well. The UI we had installed was the same as the most recent for GTA01. Of course most of the press was interested in this as a consumer device. Nonetheless, interest was very high. A number of Linux and Open Source enthusiasts came by, and of course they were thrilled. Most of them already knew about this project but wanted to see the GTA02 and to hold it in their hands. We were also visited by some Linux luminaries (Doc Searls, Maddog), which is always very thrilling. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Hello, On Jan 12, 2008 7:42 AM, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: agreed... plus how often does a consumer ready phone get rebooted? last time I did mine was to swap the sim card into my neo In my experience it is like this: Nokia phones needs to be rebooted every week. This has been true for all Nokia phones I have used, and is also true for the Nokia E61 I'm currently using. If not rebooted, some functions of the phone will fail. For the E61, it suddenly starts to say disk full when I try to sync email onto it. After a reboot it is fine again. I have only used a few Sony-Ericsson phones, but they tend to only need reboot every two weeks. My latest experience was the K710, it did all sorts of funny things if it was not rebooted. Like - the alarm didn't work, - outgoing calls failed, - ringing didn't work and so on. IMO, rebooting a phone shouldn't be necessary during normal use. I am hoping that any phone running OpenMoko will be much, much better in this area.. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Saturday 12 January 2008 07:26:18 Ted Lemon wrote: On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote: I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I thought that was weird. The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts! imo its a much better feature then looking at a boot graphic that never stops looping and wonder why it does not... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Friday 11 January 2008 23:20:51 Lon Lentz wrote: I would recommend everyone go read Wired's article on the story of the iPhone development. Read about how well their prototype did. Hint: The iPhone didn't magically appear as a finished project out of thin air by shear will power. The power of Marketing is strong, but not that strong. while a interesting read, i get a feel that apple is just uncle jobs and some faceless engineers doing the dirty work after he have done all the planing... hoovers g-men anyone? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 12, 2008 3:12 PM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: imo its a much better feature then looking at a boot graphic that never stops looping and wonder why it does not... For sure, but it seem importqnt to be able to hide the boot scroll for mass market. Not all people are open to the beauty of a boot scrolling :) -- Zitune GNU/Linux is user-friendly. It's just very selective about who its friends are. http://www.april.org/ 010 001 111 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Ted Lemon wrote: On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote: I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I thought that was weird. The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts! Yeah, we left that in on purpose -- especially for the geeks. Of course, it's scheduled for removal in a consumer-only release (whenever that may come) release. Well I guess you just can't please everyone :/ Regards, :M: -- Dr. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Hello, On Jan 12, 2008 5:34 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, we left that in on purpose -- especially for the geeks. Of course, it's scheduled for removal in a consumer-only release (whenever that may come) release. Well I guess you just can't please everyone :/ Easy to fix - leave it (boot scroll) as an option that can be turned on by the user, preferably in a geeky way involving shell and the virtual keyboard. :-) And we want the matrix screensaver too. :-) -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: And we want the matrix screensaver too. :-) And it can't run down the batteries... :') ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re[2]: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Well I guess you just can't please everyone :/ Sure you can - put a switch in the phone's advanced preferences! :') Anyway, I have always felt that with a little dress-up, the verbose startup could become reassuring rather than alarming. The reason it's alarming is mostly that it just sits there saying nothing intelligible to the end-user. If it said things like probing for Atheros ethernet device... found. or configuring network... then the end user might be less alarmed. If you don't know any better though I think it looks too much like a Windows crash, to which old- timers are too painfully accustomed. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Am 10.01.2008 um 22:20 schrieb Michael Shiloh: We're still testing the hardware and gathering up little issues before determining whether we need to create another version of the board. We still expect to start shipping Neo FreeRunner sometime in the next few months. As always, we can't be more specific, because we're not sure. That's all for now. As always, I welcome your feedback, questions, comments, and concerns. Michael, many thanks for this update. One nitpicking question is about interpreting the word next few months: does it mean something between 3 and 7 months from now? I.e. April to July? Or does it mean a version shipping with final software to end-users but developers can get it earlier? And, if it is the developer device that comes in the next few months - how long is the GTA01 device still available (despite all its known problems), since some projects can't wait and need a development and test platform and prototype/demonstrator units... Nikolaus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Hi Jay, Thanks for your enthusiasm. Jay Vaughan wrote: We're still testing the hardware and gathering up little issues before determining whether we need to create another version of the board. We still expect to start shipping Neo FreeRunner sometime in the next few months. As always, we can't be more specific, because we're not sure. As a GTA01 early-adopter and avid hacker on the platform, I simply can't wait for the GTA02 to be available. My apps are raring to go on a completed phone. So is there going to be any chance that you guys might set up an early-adopter list, upon which we avid fanboix can place ourselves, that will mean we get the phones as soon as they are shipping? I'd be willing to place a pre-order, even, for 2 of them. We've discussed this, but have not been able to figure out a way to do this. For instance, it is illegal to take money before things are ready to ship. There are other complications. You would not believe how difficult it is to set up a web store for a company in Taiwan to sell things around the world that ship from the USA. Ask roh how much fun he's having setting up the web store. I'm that much of a neo1973 gimp .. and once I've got those 2, I'd be happy to get a box of 10 shipped my way for all my users, too. For quantities of 10 or more you should talk to Steve ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Michael I'm pretty sure that the only new things we mentioned were new hardware features: WiFi, faster processor, 2D/3D accelerator chip, and the accelerometers. ah yes, 3d! It'll be nice to have 3d renderings using something like google earth ;) -- Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Friday 11 January 2008 21:21:41 Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi Lon, Will from our office pointed me at these, but that was yesterday and apparently even more have appeared: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered- freerunner-2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE So can we please get that all black Neo? Looks a lot nicer than the black/silver :P signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On 1/11/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lon, Will from our office pointed me at these, but that was yesterday and apparently even more have appeared: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE The comments are.. not so happy. :/ Oh well. We probably have a year to prove this thing to the world before it gets crushed and forgotten. -Nick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 11, 2008 2:17 PM, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The comments are.. not so happy. :/ Yeah it didn't make a good impression to show the boot messages, and a buggy crashing version of the UI. It really doesn't make sense, in that the rest of us are getting better results with the software releases. Oh well. We probably have a year to prove this thing to the world before it gets crushed and forgotten. I would hope there is a sexier follow-on product with even more features. But I imagine there will be increasing amounts of competition too. It's just that at this time, there is no other readily-available Linux phone which has a touchscreen, 640x480 resolution, and GPS. Those are the features which got me interested. (Besides being fully open, of course.) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Unfortunately, opengl drivers for the SMedia chip will unlikely be ready by the release of FreeRunner. Only XRender extension is implemented by now. Also, GoogleEarth is closed-source and therefore can not be recompiled for ARM. P.S. Does anyone know whether we'll see accelerated XVideo extension in the near future? 2008/1/12, Brad Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Michael I'm pretty sure that the only new things we mentioned were new hardware features: WiFi, faster processor, 2D/3D accelerator chip, and the accelerometers. ah yes, 3d! It'll be nice to have 3d renderings using something like google earth ;) -- Brad ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Hi Lon, Will from our office pointed me at these, but that was yesterday and apparently even more have appeared: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE I've added a link to these at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Current_events. If anyone finds more, please add them here. Michael Lon Lentz wrote: Michael, Are you aware of any online sites that might have done any video of this? On Jan 10, 2008 4:20 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, A brief status report from OpenMoko: Consumer Electronics Show, Las Vegas We've just returned from CES where we showed the Neo FreeRunner (GTA02). Although this was still a prototype it performed fairly well. The UI we had installed was the same as the most recent for GTA01. Of course most of the press was interested in this as a consumer device. Nonetheless, interest was very high. A number of Linux and Open Source enthusiasts came by, and of course they were thrilled. Most of them already knew about this project but wanted to see the GTA02 and to hold it in their hands. We were also visited by some Linux luminaries (Doc Searls, Maddog), which is always very thrilling. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Hi Brad, I'm pretty sure that the only new things we mentioned were new hardware features: WiFi, faster processor, 2D/3D accelerator chip, and the accelerometers. Fixed GSM firmware is not new because that's already included in GTA01 units (those that shipped after we got the fixed firmware). Anyway, fixing bugs doesn't count as new :-) Michael Brad Midgley wrote: I was able to make out what's new and two things that are new and nothing after that. We can probably guess he meant wifi and maybe fixed gsm firmware. On Jan 11, 2008 8:45 AM, andy selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Are you aware of any online sites that might have done any video of this? Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
Thanks, Michael. That was what I was looking for. Geek tech sites covering you guys at the show. I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I would recommend everyone go read Wired's article on the story of the iPhone development. Read about how well their prototype did. Hint: The iPhone didn't magically appear as a finished project out of thin air by shear will power. The power of Marketing is strong, but not that strong. On Jan 11, 2008 4:17 PM, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/11/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://gizmodo.com/341755/openmoko-neo-freerunner-linux-smartphone-hands+on http://takezero.net/3g-and-mobile-news/hands-on-with-fics-openmoko-powered-freerunner-2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=SZsps3bj6yE The comments are.. not so happy. :/ Oh well. We probably have a year to prove this thing to the world before it gets crushed and forgotten. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote: I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I thought that was weird. The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Videos and pictures of Neo FreeRunner at CES: (was: Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008)
On Jan 11, 2008 11:26 PM, Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Lon Lentz wrote: I read the not so happy comments following the Gizmodo article. A lot of those comments have been made here on this list. Like the repeated ones about the boot scroll being visible. I thought that was weird. The boot scroll is one of my favorite parts! agreed... plus how often does a consumer ready phone get rebooted? last time I did mine was to swap the sim card into my neo -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Shiloh wrote: Neo FreeRunner press release and the CPU speed -- The Neo FreeRunner press release that went out last week indicated a 500MHz CPU which, as many of you pointed out, is in conflict with the 400MHz stated on the wiki. I researched this among the experts and I think I have gotten to the bottom of it: There were also mentions of separate 850MHz and 900MHz versions of the phone in the Press Release. Is that a definite for release? or even a definite at all yet? - --Bert -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhpucVfxFjPpfJ3oRAqm3AJ97YFMeaR8CUff+96nbACt89lOLywCfZghH ZaMdeXMFbTBo44fOqh4ntjo= =NLpJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Hi Ian, ian douglas wrote: Although it would be nice to take advantage of this faster processor, 3 problems make this impractical Michael, If I'm reading your message correctly, the GTA02 will indeed have a 500MHz processor, but will not be running at 500MHz because of the three problems you outlined, is that correct? That is correct. We are installing a CPU that is rated for a maximum speed of 500MHz, but clocking it at 400MHz. This is fairly common in the hardware world as availability of certain chips changes. For example, a manufacturer might find they can make the faster chips for the same price as the slower, and it costs them more to stock the two speeds, so they produce only the faster. Another reason might be that the volume of sales of the 400MHz part was so low that it wasn't worth manufacturing. Does this mean you will be slowing the CPU to 400MHz, or some other speed, or will you only know the answer once more testing has been done? I'm not sure the expression slowing the cpu is accurate. The CPU is rated for a maximum clock frequency of 500MHz, but it can be used at other speeds as well. If you are asking whether we intend to increase the clock speed at a later time, the answer is it's possible, but it's not planned. Since the rest of the circuit is designed for 400MHz it would take some serious analysis and testing to convince ourselves that it works reliably at 500MHz. A big part of hardware design consists of making sure that all signals, taking into account worst-case propagation delays and rise and fall times, will arrive at their destinations early enough to meet the setup times of the destination. This analysis is done at the intended CPU clocking frequency, which in our case was 400MHz. There is no expectation that these conditions will be met when the CPU is clocked at 500MHz - rather, every single signal in the circuit must be analyzed at this higher frequency. This is a tremendous amount of work, and is properly prioritized below getting GTA02 into manufacturing. Your description of problem 2 makes it sound like memory access will be slower, at 83MHz, if running the CPU at full speed because of the memory bus speed, instead of the anticipated 100MHz, is that correct? I can't answer for sure because I didn't work this out myself - rather I asked someone else. I can only presume that dividing by 5 was not an option. I'll find out. This frequency pre-scaler is not part of our circuitry; rather, it's built-in to the system-on-a-chip (SoC). Typically, those system provide pre-scalers, and typically those pre-scalers provide a limited range of fixed numbers for dividing the incoming frequency. So just because 4 and 6 were available divisors does not indicate that 5 is available as well. Does anyone there anticipate that this 17% decrease in memory access speed will be noticeable to the end user? What's the memory access speed on the GTA01? There is no decrease in memory speed - the system was designed to run with a CPU clock of 400MHz, and the memory at 100MHz, and that's what it will do. Thanks, Ian Thanks, Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community update, Thursday, January 10, 2008
Michael, Are you aware of any online sites that might have done any video of this? On Jan 10, 2008 4:20 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, A brief status report from OpenMoko: Consumer Electronics Show, Las Vegas We've just returned from CES where we showed the Neo FreeRunner (GTA02). Although this was still a prototype it performed fairly well. The UI we had installed was the same as the most recent for GTA01. Of course most of the press was interested in this as a consumer device. Nonetheless, interest was very high. A number of Linux and Open Source enthusiasts came by, and of course they were thrilled. Most of them already knew about this project but wanted to see the GTA02 and to hold it in their hands. We were also visited by some Linux luminaries (Doc Searls, Maddog), which is always very thrilling. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
