Re: debian/fso on freerunner
Neil Jerram wrote: 2010/1/20 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de: not exactly. zhone as such has been updated only to ensure compatibility with current e, but someone (neil? timo?) offered to take care of patching zhone to enhance functionality. Yes, that's me. I'm accumulating zhone patches here: http://gitorious.org/stuff-for-openmoko-freerunner/debian-usr-bin Even I look at leading figures debian pass programs shr))) IMO Debian will eventually assimilate everything, including SHR. (Unless there is some major advantage of the OE build and packaging system that I haven't understood yet...) It's the best combination of free software focussed build, tracking and package management that there is, and I really don't understand why anyone persists with other systems... Debian is definitely great, but it has a big disadvantage on the FR: Size matters. Last time I checked, you couldn't even install debian on the internal flash. You had to use a rather big SDcard. I use shr-lite instead. With phone gps software and a couple of games, I still only use 42% of the internal flash. The SDcard I use is for roadmaps and music only. I don't need it just to make calls. I can replace that card whenever I want to. Debian is perfect when you have a few gigabytes, or more. I use it on servers, big laptops and tiny minimalist laptops. But debian is not what you want to cram into 100MB, at least not today. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
Debian is definitely great, but it has a big disadvantage on the FR: Size matters. More generally, it has trouble adapting to particular hardware needs, whether disk space, FPU-less CPU, small RAM, etc... Its precompiled nature makes it largely unavoidable, sadly. Stefan PS: it is possible to install Debian on the internal flash, but it requires more care, indeed. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
And why are not promoting its packages in the repository debiana? because they are inofficially patched ones. i guess i could send an enhancement request to increase the timeout by default, but i am pretty surer it will be denied. imo, it would be far better to have dbus read the timeout from a config file upon startup, not sure, though. if the design allows that at all. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
You can call it like dbus-freerunner and place in the pkg-fso-debian? Or there is also difficult to get, like in debian? - Thank you for your attention. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/debian-fso-on-freerunner-tp4425059p4433545.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
[cut] Tell me please, I understand that debian lags behind the progress? Old frameworkd etc, the old kernel without the new drivers for glamo, just zhone updated ... Even I look at leading figures debian pass programs shr))) Hope dies last))) I think QtMoko is based on Debian and works really good. But i might be wrong. -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments Email secured by Check Point ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
qtmoko quite another matter. - Thank you for your attention. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/debian-fso-on-freerunner-tp4425059p4425730.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
Tell me please, I understand that debian lags behind the progress? Old frameworkd etc well, yes. the fso stack lags somewhat behind in at least some of its parts, but work is still going on. the old kernel without the new drivers for glamo, the kernel should be interchangeable between different distributions (shr, debian, qtmoko). thus, once a new kernel is available, you can use it. just zhone updated not exactly. zhone as such has been updated only to ensure compatibility with current e, but someone (neil? timo?) offered to take care of patching zhone to enhance functionality. and all the other stuff, kernel und fso, is updated as well, but slowly due to lacking manpower. Even I look at leading figures debian pass programs shr))) depends on your definition of leading figures :-) but, what exactly is the problem? do you want to use debian? just go ahaed ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:57:34AM +0100, arne anka wrote: Tell me please, I understand that debian lags behind the progress? Old frameworkd etc well, yes. the fso stack lags somewhat behind in at least some of its parts, but work is still going on. frameworkd is a checkout from autumn 2009. I don't think it's that old. But there will be a package based on current git head in the next days to solve a problem with libphone-utils anyway ;) The parts from cornucopia (fso 2.0) are constantly updated by Heiko. the old kernel without the new drivers for glamo, the kernel should be interchangeable between different distributions (shr, debian, qtmoko). thus, once a new kernel is available, you can use it. I tried to create an updated package, but git-buildpackage failed for me. I will try again once I find time for this. For now you will have to do it the way arne anka described. I also hope that luca decides to continue packaging the kernel for us :) Even I look at leading figures debian pass programs shr I don't get this sentence, but I'm currently packaging the SHR stuff for Debian. -- Sebastian signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
2010/1/20 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de: not exactly. zhone as such has been updated only to ensure compatibility with current e, but someone (neil? timo?) offered to take care of patching zhone to enhance functionality. Yes, that's me. I'm accumulating zhone patches here: http://gitorious.org/stuff-for-openmoko-freerunner/debian-usr-bin Even I look at leading figures debian pass programs shr))) IMO Debian will eventually assimilate everything, including SHR. (Unless there is some major advantage of the OE build and packaging system that I haven't understood yet...) It's the best combination of free software focussed build, tracking and package management that there is, and I really don't understand why anyone persists with other systems... Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
Neil Jerram wrote: IMO Debian will eventually assimilate everything, including SHR. (Unless there is some major advantage of the OE build and packaging system that I haven't understood yet...) It's the best combination of free software focussed build, tracking and package management that there is, and I really don't understand why anyone persists with other systems... debian - it is certainly good, but on FR without the phone is sad ((( - Thank you for your attention. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/debian-fso-on-freerunner-tp4425059p4426453.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
2010/1/20 Yoric Kotchukov yori...@yandex.ru: debian - it is certainly good, but on FR without the phone is sad ((( But Debian has working phone function. For me, at least, phone, SMS and GPRS are all working. Not to mention GPS and Wifi. Of course there are bugs and occasional hangs and crashes, and audio quality is still a problem, but my impression is that the other distributions have those problems too. Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
Am Mittwoch, den 20.01.2010, 11:45 + schrieb Neil Jerram: IMO Debian will eventually assimilate everything, including SHR. (Unless there is some major advantage of the OE build and packaging system that I haven't understood yet...) It's the best combination of free software focussed build, tracking and package management that there is, and I really don't understand why anyone persists with other systems... Well, I've been hearing that for almost a decade now, but still systems like buildroot, OpenEmbedded, OpenWRT, t2-project, etc. are being preferred on lots of embedded systems. Why do you think is that? :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
For me, zhone absolutely not working. Tried to wake arne anka (dbus timeout etc), but without success. But I see that not all hushed. Let's hope))) - Thank you for your attention. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/debian-fso-on-freerunner-tp4425059p4427512.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
For me, zhone absolutely not working. what exactly does not work? for more information open /usr/bin/zhone with an editor and increase the log level to DEBUG and set (if not done already) output to file. then start zhone and provoke the error, close zhoen, check the log file for private information and post it somewhere (pastebin or such). Tried to wake arne anka uh? (dbus timeout etc), but without success. if you mean, you installed those three dbus packages from my site -- i patched zhone additionally with one of neil's patches which makes the pin dialog popup until finally registered, not just one time. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
I have a timeout, I'm tired))) And why are not promoting its packages in the repository debiana? - Thank you for your attention. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/debian-fso-on-freerunner-tp4425059p4427940.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
2010/1/20 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de: Am Mittwoch, den 20.01.2010, 11:45 + schrieb Neil Jerram: IMO Debian will eventually assimilate everything, including SHR. (Unless there is some major advantage of the OE build and packaging system that I haven't understood yet...) It's the best combination of free software focussed build, tracking and package management that there is, and I really don't understand why anyone persists with other systems... Well, I've been hearing that for almost a decade now, but still systems like buildroot, OpenEmbedded, OpenWRT, t2-project, etc. are being preferred on lots of embedded systems. Why do you think is that? Well, as I said, I don't know. What are the advantages of those systems? Also note that of the 4 FR distributions that are still actively developed, 3 of them are Debian-based - doesn't that cast doubt on those other systems being preferred on lots of embedded systems? However, in general terms I realize that my remark was probably too hasty. For example, it seems likely that when a new project is developing rapidly, they want more control over what is changing in the system overall. Plus Debian could be simultaneously too ponderous (stable) and too unreliable (unstable) for them. I also have to admit that even for the Freerunner Debian is not ideal; several people recently have been trying it out and suffering from the consequences of unstable being a rapidly moving target. Nevertheless, in the long term I expect (and hope) that all the interesting software for the Freerunner will be choices within Debian. Regards, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
2010/1/20 Yoric Kotchukov yori...@yandex.ru: For me, zhone absolutely not working. Since a few people seem to have had trouble getting Debian going recently, and also because I'd like to have a backup for myself, I'm wondering if it would be useful to make a .tar.gz of my rootfs, and make that available somewhere. df tells me I'm using about 1 gig of disk space, so that's the order of how big the .tar.gz would be. Would that be of interest? If so, I'd also appreciate any advice on the details of how to do it, especially - if there's a way of reviewing that I'm not giving away any personal data that I shouldn't - whether and how I should exclude directories like /dev, /proc, /sys and /tmp - what is a good way of making such a large file available? Thanks, Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
2010/1/20 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer mic...@vanille-media.de: IMO Debian will eventually assimilate everything, including SHR. (Unless there is some major advantage of the OE build and packaging ... Well, I've been hearing that for almost a decade now, but still systems like buildroot, OpenEmbedded, OpenWRT, t2-project, etc. are being preferred on lots of embedded systems. Why do you think is that? (I might be partially wrong and it's not so black-and-white most certainly, but just trying to express why I love Debian over OE) I think it's largely because embedded developers often come from a different IT sector and tend to think the embedded device is something special and small, and that the approach of doing one single image / firmware fits the idea of embedded devices. But as FreeRunner is really a full-blown computer, not a router or other really small device by today's standards, Debian is something that removes the limits of this thinking. Debian has working upgrades, no removal of functionality wrt. i386 computers (unless you want it) and is simply vast in its scope - the fact you can run 95% of the 20k+ packages on FreeRunner and that they are all up-to-date is one statement of how much work has been achieved to keep up the scope of the project for all architectures. Of course most of those are not that practical to use on touch screen, but I wouldn't give the flexibility away. With the (in my opinion) old way of thinking towards this class of embedded devices, Emdebian is probably behind OpenEmbedded. But I think really it's becoming gradually less relevant, device class by device class. The only thing FR is lacking is large enough integrated flash memory, which is why a full Debian is usually used from SD card. Given the storage space of next generation mobile phones, I'd guess 2GB of flash is not a problem and you can fit a full Debian with compilation environment, documentation, office software etc. (and yes, phone software) without any problems. Partially OE is also about cross-compiling. Debian also supports it, but mostly the automatic package building is done on powerful enough ARM computers (512MB memory, 1GHz etc.). So in the old embedded world of thinking, you couldn't/shouldn't also compile on the target hardware (or target architecture) itself, but you have the development machine separately and you simply target the so-called small hardware. For an existing Debian/Ubuntu user, I cannot think of anything better than using Debian also on embedded devices. I use it on FreeRunner and my NAS device. With OE it very often seemed to be that when wanting newer software, flashing was recommended. And OE is simply a much smaller project packaging wise. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: debian/fso on freerunner
Thanks for the offer, but I personally do not see the point, then it will not be anything different from qtmoko / hackable etc))) Change me, for example, WM with on your own, timeouts changed - zhone not work again))) - if there's a way of reviewing that I'm not giving away any personal data that I shouldn't Temporarily change the password root, to remove a normal user (/home* will), or create a blank user (if necessary). PIN in the text zhone no interest))) Maybe something else. - whether and how I should exclude directories like /dev, /proc, /sys and /tmp Depending on the options for the mount, cp -arx, manually delete something. - Thank you for your attention. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/debian-fso-on-freerunner-tp4425059p4432099.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
debian/fso on freerunner
Hello! Sorry my bad English. Tell me please, I understand that debian lags behind the progress? Old frameworkd etc, the old kernel without the new drivers for glamo, just zhone updated ... Even I look at leading figures debian pass programs shr))) Hope dies last))) - Thank you for your attention. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/debian-fso-on-freerunner-tp4425059p4425059.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
