Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On 3 Jul 2008, at 18:45, Forrest Sheng Bao wrote: Well, I happen to have a bunch of friends which are not tech geeks, as well as my family members. They can follow instructions to use Skype without bothering me. This is the same open/closed problem that exists with many protocols. I find it inconvenient chatting to people on the MSN or Yahoo! messenger networks, and later Word documents feature password protection which may render them difficult to read in other word- processors. Plus, I am using SkypeIn/SkypeOut plan. I don't have a cell phone. So I hope I can continue using it on my new handset. Well, if you have a new Openmoko handset one would expect you to get a cell phone plan. PS: If you wanna call a traditional telephone from a VoIP client, there must be a company providing the service to bridging Internet and telephony network, right? Do you have such open source solutions? I think the company need to pay money to telephony service operator. Who will pay it? This is basically the same as the SkypeOut plan you mention. You pay for that, right? The difference is that, using a standard SIP client, you have a choice of multiple providers (who may offer competing rates and quality of service) and you may run the telephony-out on your own landline. Skype is great for individuals - if we ignore the Freedom element of the software service - but SIP allows you much more flexibility. Sure, there would appear to be fewer people using standard SIP (although here in the UK many broadband suppliers offer discount / free phone plans which involve connecting a standard telephone handset to a DSL router which has a telephone socket and runs SIP software) but you can certainly make free internet calls with it. Not only that, but you can enable multiple clients to do so at one location, transfer calls cleverly between them, do call-forwarding, and if they need to phone out to the conventional telephony network then one billing account can be used for multiple users (presumably giving cost savings). Geeks like SIP because they can run it on their own Linux server or choose to rent hosting. They can run clients on their PCs, on Macs on under Linux, on any mobile handset they like. We can rent multiple phone numbers - with non-geographic area codes (0845 or freephone), or with area codes in London or Los Angeles - and then do what the heck we like with those calls. We can answer them at the telephone on our desk or with software on our laptops; we can route them to different destinations depending on the time of day and allocate different extensions to different desks in the office. Outgoing calls can be routed by different providers depending upon costs - SIP can be used to link branch offices with free internet calls (multiple calls simultaneously) and calls outside the office can go through an ISDN bank, if you prefer that to paying someone else for point-of- presence on the POTS network. If you have friends who use Skype there's not much you can do about it - evangelising SIP is about effective as telling them to use Linux instead of Windows - but outside of the free calls there are VERY many advantages to open protocols. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have friends who use Skype there's not much you can do about it - evangelising SIP is about effective as telling them to use Linux instead of Windows - but outside of the free calls there are VERY many advantages to open protocols. Besides, you can have PC-to-PC free calls to, as soon as your respective provides allow it (ekiga.net, anybody?) Cheers, OlivierM ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Jul 2, 2008, at 10:22 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote: hacking android to run was tried, without too much luck, as mentioned at http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/21/android-neo1973 Depending on how open Android is made, it, or parts of it may run on OpenMoko. I'm not holding my breath though, I'm more excited by the native software being written. Having an Android emulator or whatever gets ported may be good eventually, depending on how good the Android apps ever become. getting back to skype, i don't see why anyone would really want or need it. there are plenty of other voip clients such as ekiga. gizmo may also be an option on the freerunner. someone else was working on a voip client specifically for the FreeRunner, but I can't remember who at the moment. Most people don't want to run Skype, they just happen to run it because everyone they talk to through it uses it. They don't really care other than it makes calls cheap/free. Maybe they use Skype-in/out but from what I've seen, most don't. Personally, I prefer a normal VoIP (SIP) client, but I don't have a big group of Skype-using friends. -KW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Nokia's Meamo project. But one can use Skype on Nokia N810. Will OpenMoko consider asking Skype to develop the client for Neo? why don't you? if skype works on maemo/armv5 it probably should be not much work to port it to armv4, could be as simple as recompiling, couldn't it? and if a prospective customer asks it just might point them to a new market ... of course, it's still possible nokia asked them to not use the maemo/armv5 ported skype for anything else then nokia permits ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Do 3. Juli 2008 schrieb Greg Bonett: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: ...there are plenty of open alternatives. :) On that note, has anyone been able to run any open voip software running on the FR? You might try to crosscompile twinklephone.com. When stripping out (by make-option) the KDE and QT stuff, and building a mere cmdline version, it should be pretty platform independent. commenting out the libboost-regex stuff will save you a lot of cumbersome library porting (heard building the whole Boost lib takes a scary xGB of diskspace :-o ) - I think it's only needed for the number-converting function, which you can easily live without for the first. linphone is probably easier. It is in OE and has been reported working on ARM before. The GTK GUI is fairly minimal and may be usable without modification. The CLI version has hooks for adding a UI. I gave it a quick try the other day using mokomakefile (make build-package-linphone) and it builds and installs via opkg but fails at runtime with a library issue. I think this is because the old 1.6 version of linphone in OE doesn't work with the more recent libosip2. I'll have a go at updating it to a current version, but I've not used bitbake before. Someone at digium was working on an IAX client in his spare time too. I'll have to make enquiries as I would love to test it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Let me just comment two things to this thread: 1) there are quite a number of linux-using VoIP WiFi phones out there. They usually have way less powerful CPU's like the N8xx. I know of one particular popular product from Accton which is IMHO sold as netgear and SMC product that is based on the OMAP850. So no ARMv5 instruction set problems here. Probably problems with some proprietary UI toolkit / window system they might be using. 2) Just a legal warning. the skype client is proprietary software and has a license agreement. Without further review, I am quite sure that running it on any different hardware than the one it was shipped on, or doing any type of modification is most likely not permitted. Cheers, Harald [who still wonders why any freedom-loving person would ever want to use skype, probably one of the most proprietary systems out on the net today] -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
who still wonders why any freedom-loving person would ever want to use skype because it's obviously easy to setup and use and thus a huge bunch of people use it. plus: they got really good pr! ask average joe what kind of phone over the internet he knows -- most people will answer skype. the number of friends using skype keeps increasing and i fear the day i have to install it, too, just to keep in touch ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:17:01 +0200, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: who still wonders why any freedom-loving person would ever want to use skype because it's obviously easy to setup and use That's not the real reason for me, though. I don't mind setting up a proper SIP phone and piercing holes in the firewall; I'd rather prefer to do it in a way I control than have Skype obfuscate its way through whatever ports it manages to use. Whether Skype's GUI is easy and convenient to use is also a matter of taste. One of the worst in my personal opinion. But with Skype, you get no choice. and thus a huge bunch of people use it. This is the real problem, though. In reply to “please call me on Skype”, I really can't tell everyone to do the above instead. plus: they got really good pr! ask average joe what kind of phone over the internet he knows -- most people will answer skype. Their prices are NOT the best on the VoIP market, at least for calling to countries they don't consider a priority, such as Russia. Calling to Russia is several times as cheap on the free market. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
There are better and cheaper alternatives to skype, but if you absolutely have to use the skype network, check out fring and iskoot. They're java based, so they work on just about any phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
plus: they got really good pr! ask average joe what kind of phone over the internet he knows -- most people will answer skype. Their prices are NOT the best on the VoIP market, at least for calling to maybe (never used skype myself), but as long as people do not know there is competition and as long as skype is not compatible with sip (and why should they?)it's up to you and me as freedom loving and informed users to decide whether to ignore skype users alltogether or to jump on the bandwaggon. anyway, that's no matter of this list. if there are people willing to let skype onto their phone, it's up to them and the should contact skype. if a sufficient number of users indicate an interesting niche in the market, skype might be willing to consider porting. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Well, I happen to have a bunch of friends which are not tech geeks, as well as my family members. They can follow instructions to use Skype without bothering me. Plus, I am using SkypeIn/SkypeOut plan. I don't have a cell phone. So I hope I can continue using it on my new handset. Probably I will wait for a while to purchase later version of Neo when I have time to hack it. Currently, to save time, I will choose N810, which has everything I need out of the box. PS: If you wanna call a traditional telephone from a VoIP client, there must be a company providing the service to bridging Internet and telephony network, right? Do you have such open source solutions? I think the company need to pay money to telephony service operator. Who will pay it? Cheers, Forrest On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Knight Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most people don't want to run Skype, they just happen to run it because everyone they talk to through it uses it. They don't really care other than it makes calls cheap/free. Maybe they use Skype-in/out but from what I've seen, most don't. Personally, I prefer a normal VoIP (SIP) client, but I don't have a big group of Skype-using friends. -KW -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Forrest Sheng Bao wrote: Well, I happen to have a bunch of friends which are not tech geeks, as well as my family members. They can follow instructions to use Skype without bothering me. Plus, I am using SkypeIn/SkypeOut plan. I don't have a cell phone. So I hope I can continue using it on my new handset. Probably I will wait for a while to purchase later version of Neo when I have time to hack it. Currently, to save time, I will choose N810, which has everything I need out of the box. PS: If you wanna call a traditional telephone from a VoIP client, there must be a company providing the service to bridging Internet and telephony network, right? Do you have such open source solutions? I think the company need to pay money to telephony service operator. Who will pay it? diamondcard.us works with ekiga on my desktop, and on my n800 it's basic sip with call out functionality. I haven't shopped around though and have only used it once via ekiga on my desktop but it worked perfectly. Cheers, Forrest On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Knight Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most people don't want to run Skype, they just happen to run it because everyone they talk to through it uses it. They don't really care other than it makes calls cheap/free. Maybe they use Skype-in/out but from what I've seen, most don't. Personally, I prefer a normal VoIP (SIP) client, but I don't have a big group of Skype-using friends. -KW -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
to, 2008-07-03 kello 12:45 -0500, Forrest Sheng Bao kirjoitti: PS: If you wanna call a traditional telephone from a VoIP client, there must be a company providing the service to bridging Internet and telephony network, right? Yes. Do you have such open source solutions? A service is not open source per se, though there are certainly many VOIP to POTS bridging providers who use standard protocols. I use diamondcard (for the very little I have need for such a thing), mostly because Ekiga offered it by default (though I've since changed to Twinklephone - the wonders of standard protocols!) You can presumably use Asterisk to set up such a service, if that's what you're asking - it's rather unclear. I think the company need to pay money to telephony service operator. Who will pay it? Umm, the users? You seem to be rather confused about open source, open protocols and services that can be accessed using the above, to be frank. These are three different things, though go well together. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
It's often been wished for an Asterisk-to-Skype gateway. It would be an elegant solution: run the gateway at home or on a hosted server, and use any ordinary SIP or IAX client on the Neo. Well last time I checked into that was a couple years ago, but now it appears such a thing exists: http://www.mhspot.com/mhspot/sippyskype.htm https://extras.skype.com/categories/all/good/asterisk http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/skype/sip-to-skype-gateway-breaks-skypes-great-wall-of-voip.asp http://www.asteriskvoipnews.com/asterisk_development/skypetoasterisksip_progress_part_1.html And asterisk of course can make good use of third-party PSTN (real telephone line) termination services, or you can use a Winmodem to connect Asterisk to your own home phone line. Then use the Neo as a client. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:32:47 +0200, Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's often been wished for an Asterisk-to-Skype gateway. It would be an elegant solution: run the gateway at home or on a hosted server, and use any ordinary SIP or IAX client on the Neo. Well last time I checked into that was a couple years ago, but now it appears such a thing exists: Those I've seen work by running the actual Skype binary inside a virtual machine or some kind of a sandbox and routing audio to and from it. This probably wastes ten times more resources than it should. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those I've seen work by running the actual Skype binary inside a virtual machine or some kind of a sandbox and routing audio to and from it. This probably wastes ten times more resources than it should. It's unfortunate, but I'd rather waste some cycles on a server to get a clean, open interface on the phone. The problem is so many people think of Skype first when they think of VoIP. Why? Probably because it just works - does a lot of sneaky stuff to get through various kinds of firewalls, etc. Anyway there is native Skype for Linux now, so maybe some of these are using the published APIs, if that's possible... not sure. http://zhink.com/site/main/?p=5 (claims to be all-software, running on Linux, but is not free) Some of them just have to be run on Windows though. (and use the published APIs) A tougher alternative is to reverse-engineer it. There is still an unclaimed bounty being offered for a proper free Asterisk-Skype gateway that runs on Linux. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Shawn Rutledge wrote: It's often been wished for an Asterisk-to-Skype gateway. It would be an elegant solution: run the gateway at home or on a hosted server, and use any ordinary SIP or IAX client on the Neo. Well last time I checked into that was a couple years ago, but now it appears such a thing exists: http://www.mhspot.com/mhspot/sippyskype.htm That's the same I'd like to post (also months ago :P)! A way to workaround this problem would be using a wrapper (based on Skype API) that runs on a (linux) PC that runs Skype and acts as a server to which our phone will connect. As Shawn has posted there are some of these wrappers using the skype API to use skype with standard SIP clients. Myself I've tried SippySkype in my PC and I was able to make my phone attached to a SIP VoIP adapter (PAP2) ring when I was called in skype (both calling it using its LAN IP and calling its telephone number using another VoIP call performed by SippySkype itself). Or, at the contrary, I was able to call my contacts by calling them using my phone attached to the voip-adapter. So basically my idea to get my incoming skype calls on Freerunner: - Run Skype and SippySkype on my PC / Server - Activating two free accounts of the same VoIP provider (registering at one of these that allows you to call freely the numbers of the same provider itself [skypho.net does it]) - Setting Sippyskype to redirect my skype incoming calls as SIP calls done using the first VoIP number I've got to the second VoIP number (that is the mobile itself). Skype-call - Skype2SIP - SIP-call-account1 - account2 - SIP-openmoko-client - phone And reverse. This is not hard, just a little tricky; and with no openmoko SIP client, it's, well, harder :P BTW, maybe, the ASU image has a working one?! All This could be a way to talk with skype client, but to get a real skype-wrapper we're missing the contacts chat support. Sippyskype (as the others Skype2SIP wrappers) doesn't support it. I figure it won't be so hard doing it. There's a skype2irc implementation, so it could be used to create a fake irc server on local PC to connect to with the phone. Just some cents... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Hey guys, I think not being about to use Skype on Neo is a big disadvantage. I don't have a cell phone. I contact the world thru Internet solely, including watching TV series or telephone calls. I think OPenMoko is opener than Nokia's Meamo project. But one can use Skype on Nokia N810. Will OpenMoko consider asking Skype to develop the client for Neo? Cheers, Forrest -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:06:45 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hey guys, I think not being about to use Skype on Neo is a big disadvantage. I don't have a cell phone. I contact the world thru Internet solely, including watching TV series or telephone calls. I think OPenMoko is opener than Nokia's Meamo project. But one can use Skype on Nokia N810. Will OpenMoko consider asking Skype to develop the client for Neo? you do know nokia PAID skype significant money to develop skype for the n8xx? skype is not open. i would say OM has no intent to go pay money for someone else to develop a CLOSED piece of software for openmoko. OM is all about being open. skype is not all about being open. they just don't mix. if you want to somehow reverse-engineer skype's protocol details and write your own - feel free. also if you wish to somehow make the skype binaries for the n8xx work on OM - feel free to work at it and release your work, but OM, i seriously doubt, is going to lay down good money for a closed piece of software when there are plenty of open alternatives. :) Cheers, Forrest -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: ...there are plenty of open alternatives. :) On that note, has anyone been able to run any open voip software running on the FR? -Greg ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
I don't think one can run Skype for N8xx on Neo coz the CPU instruction set is different. I am not sure whether TI OMAP, the CPU used in N8xx, uses ARM instruction set. On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 8:25 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:06:45 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hey guys, I think not being about to use Skype on Neo is a big disadvantage. I don't have a cell phone. I contact the world thru Internet solely, including watching TV series or telephone calls. I think OPenMoko is opener than Nokia's Meamo project. But one can use Skype on Nokia N810. Will OpenMoko consider asking Skype to develop the client for Neo? you do know nokia PAID skype significant money to develop skype for the n8xx? skype is not open. i would say OM has no intent to go pay money for someone else to develop a CLOSED piece of software for openmoko. OM is all about being open. skype is not all about being open. they just don't mix. if you want to somehow reverse-engineer skype's protocol details and write your own - feel free. also if you wish to somehow make the skype binaries for the n8xx work on OM - feel free to work at it and release your work, but OM, i seriously doubt, is going to lay down good money for a closed piece of software when there are plenty of open alternatives. :) Cheers, Forrest -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Am Do 3. Juli 2008 schrieb Greg Bonett: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: ...there are plenty of open alternatives. :) On that note, has anyone been able to run any open voip software running on the FR? You might try to crosscompile twinklephone.com. When stripping out (by make-option) the KDE and QT stuff, and building a mere cmdline version, it should be pretty platform independent. commenting out the libboost-regex stuff will save you a lot of cumbersome library porting (heard building the whole Boost lib takes a scary xGB of diskspace :-o ) - I think it's only needed for the number-converting function, which you can easily live without for the first. /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:56:43 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: they both use ARM. freerunner is armv4, n8xx is armv5. (think of it like a pentium vs pentium-mmx - it has extra instructions in v5 compared to v4, but the vast majority of the core is the same). it can be run.. if you are lucky that the compiled binary doesn't use them. you can always write binary shims to interface binaries to existing libraries and system. you can manually hex-edit the binary and replace the armv4 instructions with v4 ones (insert etc). hacking a binary is not something that hasn't been done before. it's been done so many times there are many people who think of it as an art form... it just may be a LOT of work. I don't think one can run Skype for N8xx on Neo coz the CPU instruction set is different. I am not sure whether TI OMAP, the CPU used in N8xx, uses ARM instruction set. On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 8:25 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:06:45 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hey guys, I think not being about to use Skype on Neo is a big disadvantage. I don't have a cell phone. I contact the world thru Internet solely, including watching TV series or telephone calls. I think OPenMoko is opener than Nokia's Meamo project. But one can use Skype on Nokia N810. Will OpenMoko consider asking Skype to develop the client for Neo? you do know nokia PAID skype significant money to develop skype for the n8xx? skype is not open. i would say OM has no intent to go pay money for someone else to develop a CLOSED piece of software for openmoko. OM is all about being open. skype is not all about being open. they just don't mix. if you want to somehow reverse-engineer skype's protocol details and write your own - feel free. also if you wish to somehow make the skype binaries for the n8xx work on OM - feel free to work at it and release your work, but OM, i seriously doubt, is going to lay down good money for a closed piece of software when there are plenty of open alternatives. :) Cheers, Forrest -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Could this hackery mean that Android is a possibility? -Nick Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:56:43 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: they both use ARM. freerunner is armv4, n8xx is armv5. (think of it like a pentium vs pentium-mmx - it has extra instructions in v5 compared to v4, but the vast majority of the core is the same). it can be run.. if you are lucky that the compiled binary doesn't use them. you can always write binary shims to interface binaries to existing libraries and system. you can manually hex-edit the binary and replace the armv4 instructions with v4 ones (insert etc). hacking a binary is not something that hasn't been done before. it's been done so many times there are many people who think of it as an art form... it just may be a LOT of work. I don't think one can run Skype for N8xx on Neo coz the CPU instruction set is different. I am not sure whether TI OMAP, the CPU used in N8xx, uses ARM instruction set. On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 8:25 PM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:06:45 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hey guys, I think not being about to use Skype on Neo is a big disadvantage. I don't have a cell phone. I contact the world thru Internet solely, including watching TV series or telephone calls. I think OPenMoko is opener than Nokia's Meamo project. But one can use Skype on Nokia N810. Will OpenMoko consider asking Skype to develop the client for Neo? you do know nokia PAID skype significant money to develop skype for the n8xx? skype is not open. i would say OM has no intent to go pay money for someone else to develop a CLOSED piece of software for openmoko. OM is all about being open. skype is not all about being open. they just don't mix. if you want to somehow reverse-engineer skype's protocol details and write your own - feel free. also if you wish to somehow make the skype binaries for the n8xx work on OM - feel free to work at it and release your work, but OM, i seriously doubt, is going to lay down good money for a closed piece of software when there are plenty of open alternatives. :) Cheers, Forrest -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forrest Sheng Bao Ph.D. student, Dept. of Computer Science M.Sc. student, Dept. of Electrical Computer Engineering Rm 115, Experimental Sciences Building Texas Tech University, Lubbock, Texas, USA http://narnia.cs.ttu.edu 1-806-577-4592 Forrest is an equal opportunity Email sender. 1. You are encouraged to use the language you prefer. Beyond English, I can also read traditional/simplified Chinese and a bit German. 2. I will only send you files readable to free or open source software. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Am Do 3. Juli 2008 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:56:43 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: they both use ARM. freerunner is armv4, n8xx is armv5. (think of it like a pentium vs pentium-mmx - it has extra instructions in v5 compared to v4, but the vast majority of the core is the same). it can be run.. if you are lucky that the compiled binary doesn't use them. you can always write binary shims to interface binaries to existing libraries and system. you can manually hex-edit the binary and replace the armv4 instructions with v4 ones (insert etc). hacking a binary is not something that hasn't been done before. it's been done so many times there are many people who think of it as an art form... it just may be a LOT of work. Forget about editing skype-binaries - they're encrypted (p.8) and hashsum-checked (p.14 of [1]). I tried to edit a simple alsa-device definition :-(, then some months later I've seen this: [1]http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-europe-06/bh-eu-06-biondi/bh-eu-06-biondi-up.pdf Should cure any interest in skype :D also see p.64 p.114 /jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 05:07:53 +0200 Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Am Do 3. Juli 2008 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:56:43 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: they both use ARM. freerunner is armv4, n8xx is armv5. (think of it like a pentium vs pentium-mmx - it has extra instructions in v5 compared to v4, but the vast majority of the core is the same). it can be run.. if you are lucky that the compiled binary doesn't use them. you can always write binary shims to interface binaries to existing libraries and system. you can manually hex-edit the binary and replace the armv4 instructions with v4 ones (insert etc). hacking a binary is not something that hasn't been done before. it's been done so many times there are many people who think of it as an art form... it just may be a LOT of work. Forget about editing skype-binaries - they're encrypted (p.8) and hashsum-checked (p.14 of [1]). that comes under the it'll be a lot of work banner. you'll have to reverse their encryption and basically hack through it all. it can be done.. might take a while though (while can be anywhere from a few days to a few thousand years or more... who knows... :)). :) I tried to edit a simple alsa-device definition :-(, then some months later I've seen this: [1] http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-europe-06/bh-eu-06-biondi/bh-eu-06-biondi-up.pdf Should cure any interest in skype :D also see p.64 p.114 /jOERG -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: not being able to use Skype is a big problem
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:56:43 -0500 Forrest Sheng Bao [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: they both use ARM. freerunner is armv4, n8xx is armv5. (think of it like a pentium vs pentium-mmx - it has extra instructions in v5 compared to v4, but the vast majority of the core is the same). it can be run.. if you are lucky that the compiled binary doesn't use them. you can always write binary shims to interface binaries to existing libraries and system. you can manually hex-edit the binary and replace the armv4 instructions with v4 ones (insert etc). hacking a binary is not something that hasn't been done before. it's been done so many times there are many people who think of it as an art form... it just may be a LOT of work. On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 12:27 +1000, nickd wrote: Could this hackery mean that Android is a possibility? -Nick hacking android to run was tried, without too much luck, as mentioned at http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/21/android-neo1973 getting back to skype, i don't see why anyone would really want or need it. there are plenty of other voip clients such as ekiga. gizmo may also be an option on the freerunner. someone else was working on a voip client specifically for the FreeRunner, but I can't remember who at the moment. -jeremiah ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
