[qtmoko v44 sd card] screen dimms even QX settings should prevent this
hi does anyone know if there is another possibility to prevent screen dimming for a qx application (it is navit in my case). Activating Prevent screen dimmming in the app settings still allows the screen to dim approx after 15 minutes. This is somewhat bad for car navigation ;-( . best regards robin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtmoko v44 sd card] screen dimms even QX settings should prevent this
On Sunday 03 June 2012 06:13:35 robin wrote: does anyone know if there is another possibility to prevent screen dimming for a qx application (it is navit in my case). Activating Prevent screen dimmming in the app settings still allows the screen to dim approx after 15 minutes. This is somewhat bad for car navigation ;-( . It's probably X server which does the dimming in this case. IIRC there was way how to disable it, but i cant find it now :( I think it was discussed on this mailing list. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [qtmoko v44 sd card] screen dimms even QX settings should prevent this
On Sunday 03 June 2012 12:18:00 Radek Polak wrote: It's probably X server which does the dimming in this case. IIRC there was way how to disable it, but i cant find it now :( I think it was discussed on this mailing list. Maybe try this link: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Display_Power_Management_Signaling#Disable_DPMS_and_prevent_screen_from_blanking Maybe one of these commands mentioned there will work: xset -dpms; xset s off Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
general SD card read/write problem
Hello Everybody, I have a periodically appeared problem with SD card writing/reading functionality. I has several cards to try and found some correlation with size and speed type of the card. ' Problems are appers when I'm trying to write intensively on the card. Usually on the next boot I found filesystem corrupted and cant' mount card anymore till I fsck it (with predictable files damage) or reformat. generally it's looks like 16GB cards almost 100% cases have problems. and as I suppose 4 class cards more prone to problem than class 6. Question is simple: Is my suspicions are correct (concerning class and card size)? what is general recommendations? Who has any good/bad experience with different types of cards? I know about this topic http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards , but it's doesn't looks like relevant tutorial to buy fail-safe SD and obviously this problem doesn't rely on brand name too. thank you beforehand for any help, Dmitry ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: general SD card read/write problem
On 06/02/2011 12:42 PM, Dmitry Shalnoff wrote: Hello Everybody, I have a periodically appeared problem with SD card writing/reading functionality. I has several cards to try and found some correlation with size and speed type of the card. ' Problems are appers when I'm trying to write intensively on the card. Usually on the next boot I found filesystem corrupted and cant' mount card anymore till I fsck it (with predictable files damage) or reformat. generally it's looks like 16GB cards almost 100% cases have problems. and as I suppose 4 class cards more prone to problem than class 6. Question is simple: Is my suspicions are correct (concerning class and card size)? what is general recommendations? Who has any good/bad experience with different types of cards? I know about this topic http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards , but it's doesn't looks like relevant tutorial to buy fail-safe SD and obviously this problem doesn't rely on brand name too. thank you beforehand for any help, Dmitry ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Hi Dmitry, I also had some trouble with my SD cards. For me it seems that using u-boot with 4-4-4 timing settings gives a much more reliable use of the SD cards. With the 2-4-2 timing i have a lot of file corruption, so i switched back to an old kernel and the old 2-4-2 timing and have had little or no problem with the SD cards since i switched back. I love to hear if your troubles are over too when you switch back. I got my u-boot from [1] I run my distro from the SD card, so corruption is really annoying for me. Kind regards, Ed [1] http://www.bsdmn.com/cgit/cgit/u-boot/snapshot/u-boot-gena2x.tar.bz2 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bug: sd card not unmounting
Here's a way to work around this problem which from discussion effects only a nand install and must be (I think) a kernel bug. Save this as clean_shutdown.sh and follow the commented instructions:- _ #!/bin/bash #put this in /opt/qtmoko/bin/, make executable then:- #ln -s /opt/qtmoko/bin/clean_shutdown.sh /opt/qtmoko/bin/halt #ln -s /opt/qtmoko/bin/clean_shutdown.sh /opt/qtmoko/bin/reboot #ln -s /opt/qtmoko/bin/clean_shutdown.sh /opt/qtmoko/bin/shutdown COMMAND=`basename $0` if [ $COMMAND == shutdown ];then ARG0=$1 ARG1=$2 fi grep /media/card /proc/mounts /dev/null if [ $? -eq 0 ];then umount -f /media/card fi /sbin/$COMMAND $ARG0 $ARG1 _ I've tested this by halt/reboot from the neo's terminal and using the gui. It will not work (unadapted) if you are logged in via ssh as /opt/qtmoko/bin is then not in your PATH; from the neo's gui it is first in the PATH, so that ensures the halt/reboot commands get filtered by this script before passing to the real commands in /sbin. Obviously, as is, this is qtmoko only, but there is probably a possible similar strategy on SHR To summarize my experience:- qtmoko v26 - this problem does not happen SHR testing - I first see this issue back to qtmoko v26 - problem goes away qtmoko v33 -the same problem comes back -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
sd card not unmounting?
Brian bn...@rochester.rr.com wrote: This worked for me on qtmoko, I was using a bluetooth headset most of the time but there are some issues with that approach. Here's a link from a previous ml posting about audio settings: http://hnet.endofinternet.net/elektro/Freerunner/ALSA/sound_setting.html That article solves my sound problems! - thanks for posting it. I automount a sd card partition (ext2); the system does not seem to unmount it cleanly. It makes no difference whether I halt or reboot either from the gui or commandline; when the neo comes back up if I fsck the card it reports that it was not unmounted cleanly. I've just updated to v33 after sticking for some time with v26 - I'm pretty certain this behaviour did not happen in that older version. Certainly the card would need a fsck after a crash, but not after a clean shut down. Would someone check this - it looks like a bug to me. -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sd card not unmounting?
On Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:46:45 + dmatthews.org m...@dmatthews.org wrote: Brian bn...@rochester.rr.com wrote: This worked for me on qtmoko, I was using a bluetooth headset most of the time but there are some issues with that approach. Here's a link from a previous ml posting about audio settings: http://hnet.endofinternet.net/elektro/Freerunner/ALSA/sound_setting.html That article solves my sound problems! - thanks for posting it. Glad it helped but the real thanks goes here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2011-January/064233.html I automount a sd card partition (ext2); the system does not seem to unmount it cleanly. It makes no difference whether I halt or reboot either from the gui or commandline; when the neo comes back up if I fsck the card it reports that it was not unmounted cleanly. Perhaps there's an open file on the mounted partition? You might try using lsof and fuser to diagnose this. I've just updated to v33 after sticking for some time with v26 - I'm pretty certain this behaviour did not happen in that older version. Certainly the card would need a fsck after a crash, but not after a clean shut down. I used v26 for a long time as well and am currently using v31. Neither of them has exhibited the behavior you're reporting. Would someone check this - it looks like a bug to me. I might try upgrading to v33 soon but probably not for a couple of weeks. Good luck in diagnosing the problem though. You might want to start a new thread so this one doesn't get convoluted with two very different topics. Brian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
bug: sd card not unmounting
I do think this is a bug new in v33 as described below any shutdown/reboot, whether from commandline or gui, means that a fsck of the card reports it was not cleanly unmounted. I ran lsof | grep /media/card to show no open files - but this is too regular (100% reproducible) and never happened after a clean shutdown on v26. In any case the system should force a close of any unopen files and an umount before it shuts down. I automount a sd card partition (ext2); the system does not seem to unmount it cleanly. It makes no difference whether I halt or reboot either from the gui or commandline; when the neo comes back up if I fsck the card it reports that it was not unmounted cleanly. -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bug: sd card not unmounting
no, not here. I've v33 and works for me! (full installation on uSD with 3 partitions: storage/rootfs/swap) rather, are you 100% sure about your hardware clock? otherwise system vs rtc clock skews may trigger a check of the filesystem! regards. On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 6:36 PM, dmatthews.org m...@dmatthews.org wrote: I do think this is a bug new in v33 as described below any shutdown/reboot, whether from commandline or gui, means that a fsck of the card reports it was not cleanly unmounted. I ran lsof | grep /media/card to show no open files - but this is too regular (100% reproducible) and never happened after a clean shutdown on v26. In any case the system should force a close of any unopen files and an umount before it shuts down. I automount a sd card partition (ext2); the system does not seem to unmount it cleanly. It makes no difference whether I halt or reboot either from the gui or commandline; when the neo comes back up if I fsck the card it reports that it was not unmounted cleanly. -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bug: sd card not unmounting
no, not here. I've v33 and works for me! (full installation on uSD with 3 partitions: storage/rootfs/swap) My roofs is on nand; the rootfs unmounts cleanly, but not the uSD based partition that I automount on /media/card rather, are you 100% sure about your hardware clock? otherwise system vs rtc clock skews may trigger a check of the filesystem! I don't think this can explain it, but to check I did this:- 1. I shutdown the neo and fsck the uSD in a laptop 2. this reports a filesystem that was not unmounted properly - same as I get on the Neo 3 I put the card back in the neo and start up and fsck - I have a clean filesystem on the uSD for the first time after a shutdown/reboot! I think this is clear evidence of an unclean shutdown and it only happens since I upgrade to v33 - I don't think there is any hardware issue here. -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bug: sd card not unmounting
mmh.. I can't say anything on this topic... I've never tried nand since om2008 :P maybe it's a bug specific for nand users with a uSD partition? yes maybe - I always use the nand though and this did not happen with v26 please try this: log-in via usb-ssh on your moko /etc/init.d/qpe stop (or through the gui shutdown qt extended) killall atd hwclock -r (check if the result is ok) date (verify it's the same value) root@moke:~# /etc/init.d/qpe stop -bash: /etc/init.d/qpe: No such file or directory root@moke:~# /etc/init.d/qtmoko stop root@moke:~# killall atd atd: no process found root@moke:~# hwclock -r Wed Mar 9 19:29:45 2011 -0.155039 seconds root@moke:~# date Wed Mar 9 19:29:55 UTC 2011 root@moke:~# Regards -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bug: sd card not unmounting
I think I should add to my own post to mention that I briefly tried the January SHR testing a few weeks ago. That had the same problem ie (even) a clean shutdown - fsck reporting improper unmounting of the uSD. To summarize my experience:- qtmoko v26 - this problem does not happen SHR testing - I first see this issue back to qtmoko v26 - problem goes away qtmoko v33 -the same problem comes back I assume both distros are using the same kernel, so my guess is there is a problem there. root@moke:~# /etc/init.d/qpe stop -bash: /etc/init.d/qpe: No such file or directory root@moke:~# /etc/init.d/qtmoko stop root@moke:~# killall atd atd: no process found root@moke:~# hwclock -r Wed Mar 9 19:29:45 2011 -0.155039 seconds root@moke:~# date Wed Mar 9 19:29:55 UTC 2011 root@moke:~# -- David Matthews m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bug: sd card not unmounting
On 9 March 2011 20:07, dmatthews.org m...@dmatthews.org wrote: I think I should add to my own post to mention that I briefly tried the January SHR testing a few weeks ago. That had the same problem ie (even) a clean shutdown - fsck reporting improper unmounting of the uSD. Interesting. Is there a way to check for the filesystem was not unmounted cleanly status without removing the uSD and taking it to another computer? Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bug: sd card not unmounting
2011-03-09@20:26 Neil Jerram Interesting. Is there a way to check for the filesystem was not unmounted cleanly status without removing the uSD and taking it to another computer? Neil yes, you can play with the usb file storage gadget module. == /opt/qtmoko/bin/usb-mass-storage-on.sh it should be quite the same as accessing the uSD as inserted into an usb reader. (btw there is a known bug with g_file_storage module in v33 and you could get a kernel panic) -- ALFA21 IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qi Bootloader compatible SD Card Partition Sizes
Hi everyone I was just wondering about appropriate SD Card Partition sizes for Distributions that Qi boots. According to: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi#Advantages_of_Qi SD and SDHC cards supported properly with partitions of any size as in u-boot However, I have noticed that when I increased the sizes of my 3 Bootable Partitions on my 16GB SD Card from 512MB each to 2GB each, I can only only boot from the first 2 partitions (not the third one). Regards, Nashvin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Selling Freerunner (GTA02) for 100€ (125€ if you want to have it with a 16 G B Micro-SD card)plus shipping costs from Germany
Hi, since I increasingly have less time to try out / work on my Freerunner I am selling it. It is in good shape, comes Buzz-Fixed with a 2nd Battery, Charger and a screen-cover. It currently holds a 16 GB Micro SD Card that is optional. Its Date-Code is 20080619, so it is probably one of the phones from the first batch. The Freerunner is undamaged and fully working. Please get in contact with me if you are interested. In case you are from around Stuttgart (Germany) we can arrange a meeting for the device-handover. Regards, Bernhard ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[wikireader] sd card
Hi, a non-original microSD card that I bought doesn't perform too well in my wikireader. the non-orig card is a type '6' like the orig (I think), and scan_sd's at 129k like the orig, but sometimes it's slow/erratic when copying files from my laptop. possibly the non-orig card is just crap... there are really big (1 to 3 second) delays in search typing and history and when clicking on links. the backspace key often deletes 2 to 4 characters on one press. scrolling works fine at normal speed. anyway, I thought I'd ask if there are perhaps variables/timeouts in the wikireader's SD i/o (SPI?) code that I could tweak to try to get it to react better. I'm hoping the non-orig card might be ok, just that sometimes it's taking a bit longer to react than expected and crossing some timeout threshold in the code? dunno. cheers, robin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sd card
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:54 AM, blackfalc...@sapo.pt wrote: im using neovento 5.6. im trying to see some pics i have on my sd card. How do i get it to work. some help please. the sd card is vfat. Hi blackfalcon1, I am not at all sure about the vfat, as my card in the freerunner is being used for multibooting and I am not feeling like taking it out to try another. However you may like to know that neovento 5.6 contains an imageviewer. It is part of lxde and its name is gpicview. You can find it by searching for that in google. I tried it using the menus and it is very frustrating as the menus have never been set up to fit in the freerunner. What I did is as follows: First i have set up the LXTerminal in a suitable size and saved it; but that may not be necessary, I can just type in the terminal gpicview /mnt/sdcard/L6.jpg which is the only pic I have available, on the sdcard. It shows it at 100%size and there are many icons in the bottom bar which are probably explained if you read google about it. Hope this helps. I have liked neovento for a long time, but lately have done little with it as there is very little help to be had, especially in English. I will get keen again if anyone else is interested. cheers, clare ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
sd card
im using neovento 5.6. im trying to see some pics i have on my sd card. How do i get it to work. some help please. the sd card is vfat. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: sd card
2009/12/28 blackfalc...@sapo.pt: im using neovento 5.6. im trying to see some pics i have on my sd card. How do i get it to work. some help please. the sd card is vfat. is the card mounted? can you cd to it from the command-line? if so, do you have image software installed? i can recommend neon if you don't ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
problems with qtmoko v1.5 + neronGPS + SD card
I have downloaded maps to the freerunner and I have recorded my bike path with NeronGPS. But I have seen that the partition of the SD has been corrupted: The df command says that all I had is used but when I try to go into the directory /media/card/NeronGPS/ I get input/output error. I have used FAT and ext3 partitions in the SD card, and both have the same problem. I tried to use other directory for the maps, but it has become corrupted also. fsck says that the filesystem is corrupted (lots of inodes and blocs to fix, wrong reference numbers...) Any idea? Is it a problem of NeronGPS? or, am I the only one with this problem? regards, Joseba. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[QTMoko] What is the best way of moving my home directory to the SD Card?
I've just had the root directory on my FAT32 formatted SD card p1 get hosed (Stale NFS file handle) so I ask the very simple question: what is the best/most reliable way of moving my home directory from NAND to the SDCard? I have the whole of p1 available for my home directory so I could mount it as /home/root, I could exit the /etc/ passwd file or I could symlink it. Ideally I'd love to have things like this in a How to page on the QTMoko wiki. Would anyone complain if I started such a page? TIA Roland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [QTMoko] What is the best way of moving my home directory to the SD Card?
Il giorno lun, 12/10/2009 alle 15.16 +0100, Roland Whitehead ha scritto: I've just had the root directory on my FAT32 formatted SD card p1 get hosed (Stale NFS file handle) so I ask the very simple question: what is the best/most reliable way of moving my home directory from NAND to the SDCard? I have the whole of p1 available for my home directory so I could mount it as /home/root, I could exit the /etc/ passwd file or I could symlink it. Ideally I'd love to have things like this in a How to page on the QTMoko wiki. Would anyone complain if I started such a page? TIA Roland The best way is to mount your partition on the home because a lot of sw for the moko aren't coded well and uses always the /home/root as homedir also if you have changed it. Moreover mounting the partition gives you tha ability that if your sd card is gone you can always use your phone with the home in the flash empty dir used as mountpoint. If you want more flexibility mount it with LABEL instead the device name so that if the device name change your home isn't affcted. Bye Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 22:00, Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: Qi is really simple and (almost) clean, and it can boot kernels. I don't understand why you think one should want to maintain huge and complex u-boot instead of small simple Qi. It boots kernels - good enough. KISS Personally I do not want to keep huge u-boot. But I think Torfinn talking about fixing u-boot comes just from some previous posts where people just said something like (sorry for reformulating with my understanding) if QI is not ok for you just use U-Boot, it can multiboot, so why do you complain. But then it would imply that U-Boot has to be maintained. Torfinn just let the choice open for devs since he said he would (could) not do it himself. Now, will any developer step up and fix Qi (or U-boot) so that it will be usable for users? If you're ok with initramfs solution (and i haven't yet seen a single point why it's not ok) then it seems it's not a matter of fixing Qi, rather a matter of implementing an initramfs menu... I completely agree with that, and really would like such a solution. I thought it would have come sooner (people did talk about trying to make a little multi-boot quite a while ago !). And I do agree with Torfinn. I do need to be able to access different partitions. But I really tried hard and different timings for clicking Aux, but at the very best I can choose the good partition only once over 10 trials. And when using u-boot, I did have 5 partitions where I could install and test different configurations/distros. I do not anymore, but do not either play as much with my freerunner. It is not as simple as And in fact if anybody of those talking about bootmenu, multiboot and such really needed it he would have done it himself long time ago. I am not sure I would have been able to do this quickly and correctly enough. (and once again some said they were looking at this, and they are more competent than me). Also there are a lot of other things needing work. If everyone had to do everything himself we would no go really far. Granted I might feel a little bad saying that since I did not code anything for the freerunner, but hence the FreeRunner will remain a gadget for developers only ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
FWIW, the link works for me (now). The subject of the thread is Touch based Dual Boot Menu. The thread is from March this year, it includes a couple of examples, one have a screenshot of a working menu. how well do you want to have it published? :) the thread mentions all that is needed to actually create initrd and menu, plus has links to my testing images: http://vanous.penguin.cz/files/om/menu/ the proof of concept was ok but as i am not a programmer the only thing i could do was to make a simple script. this required X to run and became too big and too slow to boot. anyone with coding skills could either use and tweak Zaurus program or make something new... Petr ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Hi, On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Petr Vanek van...@penguin.cz wrote: how well do you want to have it published? :) A howto that explains every step needed to put it al together would be nice. Example: - where would the menu partition live? On SD crd or on NAND? - how do I install the whole deal? the thread mentions all that is needed to actually create initrd and menu, plus has links to my testing images: http://vanous.penguin.cz/files/om/menu/ Well, I didn't understand how to put it all together. the proof of concept was ok but as i am not a programmer the only thing i could do was to make a simple script. this required X to run and became too big and too slow to boot. anyone with coding skills could either use and tweak Zaurus program or make something new... Yes. It will be interesting to see if anyone actually makes something, or if this idea will stay as a proof of concept forever. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Am 25.09.2009 um 21:27 schrieb Torfinn Ingolfsen: To a user, it might look like this: - U-boot wasn't working correctly with newer (bigger) kernels, so the developer(s) abandoned it - instead they created Qi to be newer, better, faster and so on - Qi isn't living up to promises for users I'm not saying that such a view is correct, but that is how it can look like from a users view. What I wonder is why nobody did fix u-boot if it had problems with bigger kernels. And adding stateless boot from the rootfs would be nice to have in u- boot as well (for other hardware that uses u-boot). When looking into the most recent official u-boot sources I was disappointed to find essentially nothing from OM. Other open hardware projects like OpenPandora simply use mainstream u-boot. Maybe, the better path would have been to integrate more OM-u-boot back into official u-boot and work on the general limitations instead of starting a new project (Qi). But you can only influence the future but never change the history... -- hns ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: What I wonder is why nobody did fix u-boot if it had problems with bigger kernels. I'm just a bystander here, but from what I understood this wasn't the reason Qi was started. u-boot is an entire environment that needs drivers for a lot of the hardware (usb, graphics, pmu, etc.) all of which end up duplicated in the Linux kernel. The u-boot philosophy (of an entire environment supporting DFU and a boot menu) implies that those drivers have to be maintained in two places (u-boot and kernel) which cases pain, and inevitably results in u-boot being slower to boot. Qi starts with a completely different philosophy - that the bootlooder should do as little as possible, and that it should need to know as little as possible about the hardware. In terms of intent, it's closer to the coreboot project than it is to u-boot. You really couldn't achieve this [separation of bootloader device drivers] with u-boot, which is why the separate Qi project was formed instead of continuing to evolve u-boot. So what you _can't_ do inside Qi is have a graphical boot menu, or support dfu - because Qi doesn't know how to talk to the hardware. What you _can_ do is construct a mini Linux environment that provides a boot menu / usb-dfu, and is booted by Qi in the normal way. This would place those tools in regular Linux userspace, i.e. much more accessible to regular non kernel / bootloader hackers. This could be the default or secondary boot option - provide a boot menu and then chainload the desired final Linux environment. There's a philosophical difference between the two projects, and I think Qi's approach is much better suited to this kind of hardware, than u-boot could ever be (with trunk, or with the existing gripes resolved). But you can only influence the future but never change the history... Wise words! :-) Imho our time would be better spent building this mini-environment (which would probably be best constructed in initrd as Paul mentioned) than returning to u-boot. Any takers? Dave ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org writes: To a user, it might look like this: - U-boot wasn't working correctly with newer (bigger) kernels, so the developer(s) abandoned it - instead they created Qi to be newer, better, faster and so on - Qi isn't living up to promises for users I'm not saying that such a view is correct, but that is how it can look like from a users view. What I wonder is why nobody did fix u-boot if it had problems with bigger kernels. It didn't. Maybe, the better path would have been to integrate more OM-u-boot back into official u-boot and work on the general limitations instead of starting a new project (Qi). General limitation of u-boot is different ideology behind the project. Please take a look at coreboot[1] to understand what i mean. Also please see my other mail for additional information about why some developers think that u-boot is more hassle than win. [1] http://www.coreboot.org/FAQ -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Am 26.09.2009 um 11:12 schrieb Nikita V. Youshchenko: What you _can_ do is construct a mini Linux environment that provides a boot menu / usb-dfu, and is booted by Qi in the normal way. This would place those tools in regular Linux userspace, i.e. much more accessible to regular non kernel / bootloader hackers. This could be the default or secondary boot option - provide a boot menu and then chainload the desired final Linux environment. Have anybody done this, at least in proof-of-concept form? As far as I remember the good old Sharp Zaurus did it that way some years ago (unfortunately most links are gone). It loads a Mini-Linux that was the real bootloader and finally loaded the full Linux. If yes, any links? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Sat, 2009-09-26 at 09:06 +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 25.09.2009 um 21:27 schrieb Torfinn Ingolfsen: To a user, it might look like this: - U-boot wasn't working correctly with newer (bigger) kernels, so the developer(s) abandoned it - instead they created Qi to be newer, better, faster and so on - Qi isn't living up to promises for users I'm not saying that such a view is correct, but that is how it can look like from a users view. What I wonder is why nobody did fix u-boot if it had problems with bigger kernels. And adding stateless boot from the rootfs would be nice to have in u- boot as well (for other hardware that uses u-boot). When looking into the most recent official u-boot sources I was disappointed to find essentially nothing from OM. Other open hardware projects like OpenPandora simply use mainstream u-boot. Maybe, the better path would have been to integrate more OM-u-boot back into official u-boot and work on the general limitations instead of starting a new project (Qi). But you can only influence the future but never change the history... -- hns u-boot can still work with bigger kernels - its part of the environment setup. There are instructions on the wiki somewhere. Ive just gone back to u-boot from Qi - cant stand the WSODS which only occur with Qi for me - makes the phone unusable as it usually does it on an incoming call. BillK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
u-boot being slower to boot. Just FYI. I was involved in recent MontaVista's boot-in-one-second presentation. That demo did use u-boot (although somewhat changes) in the one-second boot process. Kernel got control there in about 0.3 seconds since poweron. So claim that u-boot is unable to do things fast is plain incorrect. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:36:54AM +0100, George Brooke wrote: There was a thread on the devel list see here: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1980163%7Ca1980163 That link isn't working, it just gives a nearly blank page. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
What you _can_ do is construct a mini Linux environment that provides a boot menu / usb-dfu, and is booted by Qi in the normal way. This would place those tools in regular Linux userspace, i.e. much more accessible to regular non kernel / bootloader hackers. This could be the default or secondary boot option - provide a boot menu and then chainload the desired final Linux environment. Have anybody done this, at least in proof-of-concept form? If yes, any links? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:36:54AM +0100, George Brooke wrote: There was a thread on the devel list see here: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1980163%7Ca1980163 That link isn't working, it just gives a nearly blank page. It worked for me in Firefox, but not in konqueror. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Hi, On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen ccc94...@vip.cybercity.dk wrote: On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:36:54AM +0100, George Brooke wrote: There was a thread on the devel list see here: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1980163%7Ca1980163 That link isn't working, it just gives a nearly blank page. FWIW, the link works for me (now). The subject of the thread is Touch based Dual Boot Menu. The thread is from March this year, it includes a couple of examples, one have a screenshot of a working menu. Still - nothing is published for users to try. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Nikita V. Youshchenko yo...@debian.orgwrote: What you _can_ do is construct a mini Linux environment that provides a boot menu / usb-dfu, and is booted by Qi in the normal way. This would place those tools in regular Linux userspace, i.e. much more accessible to regular non kernel / bootloader hackers. This could be the default or secondary boot option - provide a boot menu and then chainload the desired final Linux environment. Have anybody done this, at least in proof-of-concept form? If yes, any links? Search kexecboot http://git.linuxtogo.org/?p=groups/kexecboot/kexecboot.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/cfgfiles I'm using it on my old Sharp Zaurus and it works great, still actively developed (would be nice to have some hacker testing, improving support for freerunner). I liked u-boot menu and this is even better as kernel for this and then whole system can be quite the same. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Am 26.09.2009 um 10:20 schrieb Dave Ball: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: What I wonder is why nobody did fix u-boot if it had problems with bigger kernels. I'm just a bystander here, but from what I understood this wasn't the reason Qi was started. u-boot is an entire environment that needs drivers for a lot of the hardware (usb, graphics, pmu, etc.) all of which end up duplicated in the Linux kernel. The u-boot philosophy (of an entire environment supporting DFU and a boot menu) implies that those drivers have to be maintained in two places (u-boot and kernel) which cases pain, and I see. This is surely a problem. For u-boot there are estimatedly 200 other hardware projects around that have the same issue. Therfore porting fixing is only 1/200 of efforts. Except the hardware specific parts (e.g. LCD). inevitably results in u-boot being slower to boot. That one I do not really understand. If I want to load a kernel from MMC it needs the driver anyway. And why is it slower if there are other (unused) drivers available? The only delay I am aware of for u-boot is from waiting if someone wants to break into command line mode through the console... Otherwise the boot speed should only be limited by how fast we can locate and fetch the kernel image from peripheral memory. Qi starts with a completely different philosophy - that the bootlooder should do as little as possible, and that it should need to know as little as possible about the hardware. In terms of intent, it's closer to the coreboot project than it is to u-boot. You really couldn't achieve this [separation of bootloader device drivers] with u-boot, which is why the separate Qi project was formed instead of continuing to evolve u-boot. But u-boot evolves anyway (with us or without) because many other projects simply use it. Nevertheless your point with the LCD device driver is very valid. It is specific to every piece of hardware. Only the CPU is more generic. So what you _can't_ do inside Qi is have a graphical boot menu, or support dfu - because Qi doesn't know how to talk to the hardware. What you _can_ do is construct a mini Linux environment that provides a boot menu / usb-dfu, and is booted by Qi in the normal way. This would place those tools in regular Linux userspace, i.e. much more accessible to regular non kernel / bootloader hackers. This could be the default or secondary boot option - provide a boot menu and then chainload the desired final Linux environment. Isn't this even slower than u-boot? There's a philosophical difference between the two projects, and I think Qi's approach is much better suited to this kind of hardware, than u-boot could ever be (with trunk, or with the existing gripes resolved). Hm. This makes me raise some questions: * what is so specific with this hardware so that Qi is better suited? * is there any indication that Qi is adopted by other hardware projects? But you can only influence the future but never change the history... Wise words! :-) Imho our time would be better spent building this mini-environment (which would probably be best constructed in initrd as Paul mentioned) than returning to u-boot. Any takers? Dave ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:00:46AM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Qi was created to have a minimal simple easily maintainable bootloader, take a look at coreboot project to understand the idea behind Qi. U-boot is just wrong for this kind of device: it's neverending porting of Linux drivers to u-boot which doesn't make much sense when you can boot Linux, the kernel directly. So why doesn't Qi do that? Qi also has drivers for PMU, NAND flash, SD card, file systems, etc. Why not boot a kernel directly? Lack of menu with initramfs says imho that nobody really needs it or else it would have been created long time ago. No, months ago I made a trimmed down kernel for the purpose and would have given the initramfs menu a shot months ago if only the required kexec() interface was documented somewhere. Since it isn't, I'm stuck with U-Boot, which to me isn't really all that bad. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Saturday 26 September 2009 10:12:59 Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote: What you _can_ do is construct a mini Linux environment that provides a boot menu / usb-dfu, and is booted by Qi in the normal way. This would place those tools in regular Linux userspace, i.e. much more accessible to regular non kernel / bootloader hackers. This could be the default or secondary boot option - provide a boot menu and then chainload the desired final Linux environment. Have anybody done this, at least in proof-of-concept form? If yes, any links? There was a thread on the devel list see here: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td1980163%7Ca1980163 solar.george signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Dave Ball openm...@underhand.org writes: ... There's a philosophical difference between the two projects, and I think Qi's approach is much better suited to this kind of hardware, than u-boot could ever be (with trunk, or with the existing gripes resolved). Great thanks for this clear and complete explanation. I hope that they'll finally get it after your write-up. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: U-Boot improvements? (Was: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?)
El Friday, 25 de September de 2009 06:37:19 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller va escriure: Am 24.09.2009 um 22:44 schrieb Rask Ingemann Lambertsen: I tried to merge the two trees a couple of months ago, but the NAND flash code has changed so much that merging in the 2442 support requires knowledge of how the NAND flash interface works. I don't have that knowledge. Is this code somewhere available? I personally don't have the experience for the 2442 you mention, but others could be interested as well. http://git.openmoko.org/?p=u-boot.git;a=summary ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: U-Boot improvements? (Was: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?)
Am 25.09.2009 um 08:46 schrieb Jose Luis Perez Diez: El Friday, 25 de September de 2009 06:37:19 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller va escriure: Am 24.09.2009 um 22:44 schrieb Rask Ingemann Lambertsen: I tried to merge the two trees a couple of months ago, but the NAND flash code has changed so much that merging in the 2442 support requires knowledge of how the NAND flash interface works. I don't have that knowledge. Is this code somewhere available? I personally don't have the experience for the 2442 you mention, but others could be interested as well. http://git.openmoko.org/?p=u-boot.git;a=summary Is there the merged tree Rask did mention? As far as I can see it is the OM fork and miles away from the 2009.08 u-boot. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Hi, On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 6:59 AM, Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: And in fact if anybody of those talking about bootmenu, multiboot and such really needed it he would have done it himself long time ago. I bet trying and tweaking all distros including Qtopia, Qtmoko, Android, H:1 etc etc took them 10x time required to build a minimal bootmenu. Well, this (statements like those above) is why the shoemaker's children is still running around barefoot. :-) (For those not catching the reference - the shoemaker can make shoes for his children at any time, he just never makes it a priority.) Developers and users have different views of what is required to make a device usable. Unless the developers recognize that, and produce something that the users find acceptable, the device in question will remain a gadget for developers. I had hopes that I would be able to use my FreeRunner as a user one day, heck I still have that hope. If that doesn't happen I (and probably a few others) will be a bit dissappointed. Hm, i have my normal one on uSD and in case i screw something up i just boot pre-installed 2007 from NAND by pressing AUX button at the right time (and yes, i can't manage it with 100% success rate but taking out the battery and trying again is not a big deal). Lucky you. I have tried the press AUX button trick a lot of times, I can _never_ make Qi boot anything other that the default (first) partition on my SD card. Like this: - I don't press anything, the default partition gets booted - I press AUX (hopefully at the right time), and Qi never finshes booting anything (not in 5 - 10 minutes anyway). Someone said that Qi is unusable by normal users. I wanted to prove it wrong. IMHO, you failed to prove anything. I still say that Qi is unusable for normal users - it doesn't have a reliable way for users to select which partition to boot. To a user, it might look like this: - U-boot wasn't working correctly with newer (bigger) kernels, so the developer(s) abandoned it - instead they created Qi to be newer, better, faster and so on - Qi isn't living up to promises for users I'm not saying that such a view is correct, but that is how it can look like from a users view. By derfinition, only developers can fix the software. Now, will any developer step up and fix Qi (or U-boot) so that it will be usable for users? If no developer wants to scratch that particular itch, the FreeRunner will remain a gadget for developers only. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com writes: And in fact if anybody of those talking about bootmenu, multiboot and such really needed it he would have done it himself long time ago. I bet trying and tweaking all distros including Qtopia, Qtmoko, Android, H:1 etc etc took them 10x time required to build a minimal bootmenu. Developers and users have different views of what is required to make a device usable. Unless the developers recognize that, and produce something that the users find acceptable, the device in question will remain a gadget for developers. I'm not a dev. I don't maintain anything. And don't write anything. I'm just using FR as my only daily phone since November. Hm, i have my normal one on uSD and in case i screw something up i just boot pre-installed 2007 from NAND by pressing AUX button at the right time (and yes, i can't manage it with 100% success rate but taking out the battery and trying again is not a big deal). Lucky you. I have tried the press AUX button trick a lot of times, I can _never_ make Qi boot anything other that the default (first) partition on my SD card. Like this: - I don't press anything, the default partition gets booted - I press AUX (hopefully at the right time), and Qi never finshes booting anything (not in 5 - 10 minutes anyway). Why don't you add an additional delay or led blink to it to make it more explicit? Someone said that Qi is unusable by normal users. I wanted to prove it wrong. IMHO, you failed to prove anything. I still say that Qi is unusable for normal users - it doesn't have a reliable way for users to select which partition to boot. I'm not sure the majority of users really want it, there was no such poll. To a user, it might look like this: - U-boot wasn't working correctly with newer (bigger) kernels, so the developer(s) abandoned it False statement. - instead they created Qi to be newer, better, faster and so on Qi was created to have a minimal simple easily maintainable bootloader, take a look at coreboot project to understand the idea behind Qi. U-boot is just wrong for this kind of device: it's neverending porting of Linux drivers to u-boot which doesn't make much sense when you can boot Linux, the kernel directly. Qi is really simple and (almost) clean, and it can boot kernels. I don't understand why you think one should want to maintain huge and complex u-boot instead of small simple Qi. It boots kernels - good enough. KISS - Qi isn't living up to promises for users Qi is working almost bugfree. It does what was promised. If anyone with a debugboard or the simplest UART-whatever converter (i've just built one myself based on FT232R, damn simple; the same goes for MAX232 etc, it's not _that_ hard to find RS-232 even nowadays) can reproduce any bug with it, please report it on trac, i promise i will try to fix it. Lack of menu with initramfs says imho that nobody really needs it or else it would have been created long time ago. I'm not saying that such a view is correct, but that is how it can look like from a users view. I hope now i clarified it enough to explain why it's not correct. By derfinition, only developers can fix the software. It would be interesting to see this definition... Now, will any developer step up and fix Qi (or U-boot) so that it will be usable for users? If you're ok with initramfs solution (and i haven't yet seen a single point why it's not ok) then it seems it's not a matter of fixing Qi, rather a matter of implementing an initramfs menu... If no developer wants to scratch that particular itch, the FreeRunner will remain a gadget for developers only. Hehe, how scary ;) BTW, no offense meant, take it easy dude :) -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Warren Baird wjba...@alumni.uwaterloo.ca writes: I have a slightly more interesting issue - my aux button doesn't work any more after my daughter dropped my FR one too many times... Judging by experience i guess most probably everything is undamaged, there were numerous reports of failing AUX button after bad drops but on no occassion anything was really broken. Just solder it back. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:11:04PM +, Niels Heyvaert wrote: The idea of having a simple GUI boot loader could be very useful... We have one. It's called U-Boot. Or am I missing something? -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:36:43AM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com writes: Qi _will_ need to be improved until it is usable for end users, or it will fade away I really can't understand the desire to multi-boot. What does it matter if you understand anybody elses desire to multi-boot or not? But let me give you a few uses anyway: 1) A backup installation in case you break your normal one. 2) Regression testing. I have an unmodified andy-tracking kernel installed in addition to the one I'm hacking on and normally use. So if something is broken I can check if it was broken before I started hacking too. And btw, Qi doesn't let me select between multiple kernels for the same rootfs, does it? And btw the recent poll proved that most users use Qi IIRC. A clear evidence it's already usable for them. There are more iPhone users than Freerunner users. What was your point again? -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Hi, On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen ccc94...@vip.cybercity.dk wrote: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:11:04PM +, Niels Heyvaert wrote: The idea of having a simple GUI boot loader could be very useful... We have one. It's called U-Boot. Or am I missing something? Apart for a fact that it has problem loading kernels over a certain size? Or that it requires the kernel on a separate partition (which must be fat?)? No, I don't think so. But this begs the question: could U-boot be improved to deal with the current requirements of the users? -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Hi, On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen ccc94...@vip.cybercity.dk wrote: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:11:04PM +, Niels Heyvaert wrote: The idea of having a simple GUI boot loader could be very useful... We have one. It's called U-Boot. Or am I missing something? Apart for a fact that it has problem loading kernels over a certain size? Or that it requires the kernel on a separate partition (which must be fat?)? No, I don't think so. But this begs the question: could U-boot be improved to deal with the current requirements of the users? -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Thursday 24 September 2009, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Hi, On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen ccc94...@vip.cybercity.dk wrote: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:11:04PM +, Niels Heyvaert wrote: The idea of having a simple GUI boot loader could be very useful... We have one. It's called U-Boot. Or am I missing something? Apart for a fact that it has problem loading kernels over a certain size? The default is 2MB, but it's a config option. Or that it requires the kernel on a separate partition (which must be fat?)? No, I don't think so. Where did you get that idea? My kernels live in /boot on the ext3 partition I'm booting. They can live on a separate partition, and it can read from fat, but neither are requirements. But this begs the question: could U-boot be improved to deal with the current requirements of the users? The two issues above could be solved by providing a more friendly configuration tool. The slightly slower boot and resume probably can't be changed due to the different philosophy. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
U-Boot improvements? (Was: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?)
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 04:18:30PM +0200, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen ccc94...@vip.cybercity.dk wrote: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:11:04PM +, Niels Heyvaert wrote: The idea of having a simple GUI boot loader could be very useful... We have one. It's called U-Boot. Or am I missing something? Apart for a fact that it has problem loading kernels over a certain size? Not as such, but it does lack kernel size detection when reading from NAND flash. The config shipped by OM limits NAND flash kernels to 2 MB. Does anybody actually (want to) ship kernels larger than that? Andy-tracking's packaging config comes out to around 1.7 MB. NAND flash kernel size detection wouldn't be all that difficult to add, though. Around 10-20 lines of code. Or that it requires the kernel on a separate partition (which must be fat?)? It doesn't. I have the kernel on the Debian rootfs, which is ext2. I also have an old SHR installation, also with the kernel on the ext2 rootfs. But this begs the question: could U-boot be improved to deal with the current requirements of the users? Probably. The first step is to list the requirements. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: U-Boot improvements? (Was: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?)
Am 24.09.2009 um 19:36 schrieb Rask Ingemann Lambertsen: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 04:18:30PM +0200, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen ccc94...@vip.cybercity.dk wrote: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:11:04PM +, Niels Heyvaert wrote: The idea of having a simple GUI boot loader could be very useful... We have one. It's called U-Boot. Or am I missing something? No, except that it is not really u-boot but a 2 years old fork that is now no longer maintained. u-boot 2009.08 has improved many things that could be nice to have on a GTA02 as well. Apart for a fact that it has problem loading kernels over a certain size? Not as such, but it does lack kernel size detection when reading from NAND flash. The config shipped by OM limits NAND flash kernels to 2 MB. Does anybody actually (want to) ship kernels larger than that? Andy- tracking's packaging config comes out to around 1.7 MB. NAND flash kernel size detection wouldn't be all that difficult to add, though. Around 10-20 lines of code. Or that it requires the kernel on a separate partition (which must be fat?)? It doesn't. I have the kernel on the Debian rootfs, which is ext2. I also have an old SHR installation, also with the kernel on the ext2 rootfs. But this begs the question: could U-boot be improved to deal with the current requirements of the users? Probably. The first step is to list the requirements. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: U-Boot improvements? (Was: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?)
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:08:53PM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: No, except that it is not really u-boot but a 2 years old fork that is now no longer maintained. I tried to merge the two trees a couple of months ago, but the NAND flash code has changed so much that merging in the 2442 support requires knowledge of how the NAND flash interface works. I don't have that knowledge. u-boot 2009.08 has improved many things that could be nice to have on a GTA02 as well. You say many things but don't mention even one thing. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: U-Boot improvements? (Was: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?)
Am 24.09.2009 um 22:44 schrieb Rask Ingemann Lambertsen: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:08:53PM +0200, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: No, except that it is not really u-boot but a 2 years old fork that is now no longer maintained. I tried to merge the two trees a couple of months ago, but the NAND flash code has changed so much that merging in the 2442 support requires knowledge of how the NAND flash interface works. I don't have that knowledge. Is this code somewhere available? I personally don't have the experience for the 2442 you mention, but others could be interested as well. u-boot 2009.08 has improved many things that could be nice to have on a GTA02 as well. You say many things but don't mention even one thing. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen ccc94...@vip.cybercity.dk writes: On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 12:36:43AM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com writes: Qi _will_ need to be improved until it is usable for end users, or it will fade away I really can't understand the desire to multi-boot. What does it matter if you understand anybody elses desire to multi-boot or not? Probably i will want to multiboot myself so much that i'll finally prepare a minimal initramfs to allow that. And in fact if anybody of those talking about bootmenu, multiboot and such really needed it he would have done it himself long time ago. I bet trying and tweaking all distros including Qtopia, Qtmoko, Android, H:1 etc etc took them 10x time required to build a minimal bootmenu. But let me give you a few uses anyway: 1) A backup installation in case you break your normal one. Hm, i have my normal one on uSD and in case i screw something up i just boot pre-installed 2007 from NAND by pressing AUX button at the right time (and yes, i can't manage it with 100% success rate but taking out the battery and trying again is not a big deal). 2) Regression testing. I have an unmodified andy-tracking kernel installed in addition to the one I'm hacking on and normally use. So if something is broken I can check if it was broken before I started hacking too. And btw, Qi doesn't let me select between multiple kernels for the same rootfs, does it? Well, i just copy every kernel i need to /boot and then make uImage-GTA02 symlink point to the one i want to test. And btw the recent poll proved that most users use Qi IIRC. A clear evidence it's already usable for them. There are more iPhone users than Freerunner users. What was your point again? Someone said that Qi is unusable by normal users. I wanted to prove it wrong. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote (ao): On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Al Johnson [1]openm...@mazikeen.demon.co.uk wrote: I believe it's an arbitrary limit based on the assumption that with no gui it would be hard to select the intended partition. Given the touble people have with only 3 partitions it seems well founded. OK, so when Qi is improved so that partition selection is actually usable, this artificial limitation will go away. One should create an initramfs which shows a boot menu of some kind. This is not something qi should provide. Sander -- Humilis IT Services and Solutions http://www.humilis.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Al Johnson openm...@mazikeen.demon.co.uk writes: This limitation is one of the reasons I'm still using u-boot. The other is the inability to pass optional kernel parameters when booting from NAND. Why not have something like grub in the boot?. With a keyboard added, nothing could be more flexible. -- Esben Stien is b...@e s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: I really can't understand the desire to multi-boot. And btw the recent poll proved that most users use Qi IIRC. A clear evidence it's already usable for them. here's a couple of use cases: 1 I have a working shr-u install on my phone, and want to experiment with the shr-testing candidate - however I want the capability to revert back to the working shr-u install if I have problems with shr-testing. This is the situation I'm in right now. 2. More generally - I have a working distro I like, but am curious to try one or more of the other distros. 3. I'm a developer working on an app for the FR, and I want to make sure that it works well on debian, SHR, and QtMoko (using QX), but only have one FR. In the 'bad old days', when I was experimenting with the early OM 2009 TRs, I often had to boot back to QtEI to actually be able to make an outgoing phone call. I definitely think there are many valid reasons for multi-booting. I have a slightly more interesting issue - my aux button doesn't work any more after my daughter dropped my FR one too many times... So my solution for multi-boot involves renaming the appropriate boot directory on the SD card before rebooting... far from ideal... Warren -- Warren Baird - Photographer and Digital Artist http://www.synergisticimages.ca ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Hello, Is there any specific reason why Qi[1] only tries to boot from partition 1 - 3 when ther csn be 4 (four) primary prtitons on a SD card? Or is it just developer eccentrics or programmer laziness? :-) References: 1) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Tuesday 22 September 2009, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Hello, Is there any specific reason why Qi[1] only tries to boot from partition 1 - 3 when ther csn be 4 (four) primary prtitons on a SD card? Or is it just developer eccentrics or programmer laziness? :-) References: 1) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi I believe it's an arbitrary limit based on the assumption that with no gui it would be hard to select the intended partition. Given the touble people have with only 3 partitions it seems well founded. This limitation is one of the reasons I'm still using u-boot. The other is the inability to pass optional kernel parameters when booting from NAND. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Hi, On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Al Johnson openm...@mazikeen.demon.co.ukwrote: I believe it's an arbitrary limit based on the assumption that with no gui it would be hard to select the intended partition. Given the touble people have with only 3 partitions it seems well founded. OK, so when Qi is improved so that partition selection is actually usable, this artificial limitation will go away. Qi _will_ need to be improved until it is usable for end users, or it will fade away Whether that happens with the suggested menu partition or with an improved blinking lights and push buttons scheme doesn't matter. One way or the other, Qi must improve. This limitation is one of the reasons I'm still using u-boot. The other is the inability to pass optional kernel parameters when booting from NAND. Hmm, why can't this be solved with the append file (In /boot), like in QtMoko? -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com writes: Qi _will_ need to be improved until it is usable for end users, or it will fade away I really can't understand the desire to multi-boot. And btw the recent poll proved that most users use Qi IIRC. A clear evidence it's already usable for them. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
Torfinn Ingolfsen writes: Qi _will_ need to be improved until it is usable for end users, or it will fade away I really can't understand the desire to multi-boot. And btw the recent poll proved that most users use Qi IIRC. A clear evidence it's already usable for them. Perhaps because the Openmoko Wiki urges people to switch to Qi, with fact based argumentation, is one of the main reasons why so many people use it. Some of us are challenged by getting Qi to do what it is advertised to do. Technically, Qi allows multiboot, but it proves hard to invoke the behavior. The idea of having a simple GUI boot loader could be very useful... _ Lentekriebels? Speel samen met je vrienden de spelletjes die Windows Live je aanbiedt! http://www.messengerbillboard.be/nl/play ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - why only 3 partitions on SD card?
On Tuesday 22 September 2009, Paul Fertser wrote: Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com writes: Qi _will_ need to be improved until it is usable for end users, or it will fade away I really can't understand the desire to multi-boot. And btw the recent poll proved that most users use Qi IIRC. A clear evidence it's already usable for them. Most people use Windows, but that doesn't meet my needs either ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Paul Fertser wrote: So what do you suggest? My suggestion, please ignore it if you dont like it :) Pressing any key brings Qi in interactive mode. It can work the same way as uboot. AUX switches between partitions, POWER boots selected one. Selected partition can be indicated with AUX led blinking. Blinking could work like 2second OFF followed by fast blinks for selected partition number. time- 2s 4s NAND | . . P1 | .. .. P2 | ... ... P3 | It could be that booting in interactive mode starts with NAND, because it's better then start booting from SD (one needs to know number of bootable partitions in SD and also NAND is very common boot option). I know it's quite a big change, but i dont think that current partition switching is usable. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz writes: So what do you suggest? My suggestion, please ignore it if you dont like it :) Pressing any key brings Qi in interactive mode. It can work the same way as uboot. AUX switches between partitions, POWER boots selected one. Selected partition can be indicated with AUX led blinking. Blinking could work like 2second OFF followed by fast blinks for selected partition number. Hm, interesting idea. I'll think about it. I know it's quite a big change, but i dont think that current partition switching is usable. Well, i have one partition on SD and i can boot from nand when i want, usually one-two tries is enough. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 10:11:55PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Michele Brocco ssj2mi...@gmail.com writes: On 9/20/09, Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com wrote: Is anybody at all able to get Qi to bott from several partitions on a SD card? If so, how? ... I have one distro on flash and one on SD Card. When i try to start the one on the flash i need quite a few tries until I manage to press the aux button in the correct instant, such that the correct distro is loaded. 70% of the time the one on the first partition on the SD Card is loaded. So what do you suggest? A tiny root filesystem which presents some kind of menu and then uses kexec to start the new kernel. I have recently started to work (well if time permits) on this kind of thing. Marc -- Marc Andre Tanner http://www.brain-dump.org/ GPG key: CF7D56C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Marc Andre Tanner openm...@brain-dump.org writes: On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 10:11:55PM +0400, Paul Fertser wrote: Michele Brocco ssj2mi...@gmail.com writes: On 9/20/09, Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com wrote: Is anybody at all able to get Qi to bott from several partitions on a SD card? If so, how? ... I have one distro on flash and one on SD Card. When i try to start the one on the flash i need quite a few tries until I manage to press the aux button in the correct instant, such that the correct distro is loaded. 70% of the time the one on the first partition on the SD Card is loaded. So what do you suggest? A tiny root filesystem which presents some kind of menu and then uses kexec to start the new kernel. I have recently started to work (well if time permits) on this kind of thing. Feel free to ping me on irc for suggestions how to use external initramfs with Qi. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
So what do you suggest? A tiny root filesystem which presents some kind of menu and then uses kexec to start the new kernel. I have recently started to work (well if time permits) on this kind of thing. Feel free to ping me on irc for suggestions how to use external initramfs with Qi. i have tried this before by using kexec, please search the devel archives. as i am not a coder, i needed to use X that made it huge and quite slow for this purpose, if you can make it working directly with fb it would be awesome :) cheers Petr ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 01:10:40PM +0100, Petr Vanek wrote: So what do you suggest? A tiny root filesystem which presents some kind of menu and then uses kexec to start the new kernel. I have recently started to work (well if time permits) on this kind of thing. Feel free to ping me on irc for suggestions how to use external initramfs with Qi. Thanks Paul I will come back to that later (I actually have some questions regarding it). i have tried this before by using kexec, please search the devel archives. as i am not a coder, i needed to use X that made it huge and quite slow for this purpose, if you can make it working directly with fb it would be awesome :) Yeah I have read the thread. You got it down to ~12sec if I remember correctly. I will probably post to -devel to outline my ideas and get some general input from others once I got a bit further. Marc -- Marc Andre Tanner http://www.brain-dump.org/ GPG key: CF7D56C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Hi, On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz wrote: Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Is anybody at all able to get Qi to bott from several partitions on a SD card? If so, how? For me noboot-GTA02 file in /boot works just fine. I am using qi from https://people.openmoko.org/andy/ I am using the same Qi. But - here the noboot file doesn't work :-/ Btw you can simply boot from 3 partitions. Uboot can boot NAND, FAT +mmcblk0p2 and if you put noboot-GTA02 in that partition, Qi can boot from mmcblk0p3. As I understand it Qi does this: 1: try to boot from 1st SD card partition 2: try to boot from 2nd SD card partition 3. try to boot from 3rd SD card partition 4. try to boot from NAND (aka built-in flash) My SD card partition layout looks like this p1 - vfat data partition (only data, nothing else) p2 - ext3 primary partition, this is my main os. Currently holds QtMoko v8) p3 - this is aother ext3 primary partition, for me to keep a backup os on. Currently, it holds a copy of QtMoko v8. p4 - swap, 128Megs But - when I put a noboot-GTA02 file in /boot on p2, Qi just stops. It doesn't boot anything, not even the NAND. I have to boot from NOR U-boot, select NAND and from there I mount p2 and remove the noboot file. (BTW, my NAND contains an old Om2008 image.) -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Is anybody at all able to get Qi to bott from several partitions on a SD card? If so, how? -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
On 9/20/09, Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com wrote: Is anybody at all able to get Qi to bott from several partitions on a SD card? If so, how? -- for what it's worth, I am having also some troubles with Qi concerning booting from the partition I would like to. I think its unrelated to your issue but I post it anyway: I have one distro on flash and one on SD Card. When i try to start the one on the flash i need quite a few tries until I manage to press the aux button in the correct instant, such that the correct distro is loaded. 70% of the time the one on the first partition on the SD Card is loaded. Maybe you can try to press very often the aux button (as I do :)) and look if u have more luck. Additionally, as far as i understood, each partition has to have its own boot directory with the kernel on it to be able to boot. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Michele Brocco ssj2mi...@gmail.com writes: On 9/20/09, Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com wrote: Is anybody at all able to get Qi to bott from several partitions on a SD card? If so, how? ... I have one distro on flash and one on SD Card. When i try to start the one on the flash i need quite a few tries until I manage to press the aux button in the correct instant, such that the correct distro is loaded. 70% of the time the one on the first partition on the SD Card is loaded. So what do you suggest? -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Is anybody at all able to get Qi to bott from several partitions on a SD card? If so, how? For me noboot-GTA02 file in /boot works just fine. I am using qi from https://people.openmoko.org/andy/ Btw you can simply boot from 3 partitions. Uboot can boot NAND, FAT +mmcblk0p2 and if you put noboot-GTA02 in that partition, Qi can boot from mmcblk0p3. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
On 9/20/09, Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com wrote: Michele Brocco ssj2mi...@gmail.com writes: On 9/20/09, Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com wrote: Is anybody at all able to get Qi to bott from several partitions on a SD card? If so, how? ... I have one distro on flash and one on SD Card. When i try to start the one on the flash i need quite a few tries until I manage to press the aux button in the correct instant, such that the correct distro is loaded. 70% of the time the one on the first partition on the SD Card is loaded. So what do you suggest? I think one way would be to increase the led blinking interval in qi between the partitions. So maybe it would be easier to catch the desired partition. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
No hint on how to make Qi boot from other partitions on the SD card? -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
No hint on how to make Qi boot from other partitions on the SD card? Could this be of help to you? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi But no guarantee you'll find an answer there. I, for one, still haven't found a way to make Qi boot from SD, let alone to make it skip partitions. Despite the fact all of this are standard features, according to the wiki. _ Reageer op foto’s van je vrienden en bekijk hun reacties op de jouwe. Gegarandeerd hilariteit! http://www.microsoft.com/belux/nl/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Hello, On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Niels Heyvaert nielsheyva...@hotmail.comwrote: No hint on how to make Qi boot from other partitions on the SD card? Could this be of help to you? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi Thanks - I know about and have read that page. And it hasn't been updated since I read it last time. :-) But no guarantee you'll find an answer there. Nope. according to that page, putting a file named noboot-GTA02 in the /boot directory on a partition makes Qi skip that parttion in the boot process. This semms to be true - if I put that file on p2 (partition 2) of my SD card, Qi doesn't boot that partition. Unfortunately, it doesn't boot p3 (partition 3) either. AFAICT, p3 has the layout and the files necessary to boot from (it is a copy of a working set of files from p2). Why Qi doesn't want to boot it, I don't know. Is anybody able to select which partition to boot (on a SD card) by using the noboot-GTA02 file? I, for one, still haven't found a way to make Qi boot from SD How is the layout of your SD card, partition-wise? Mine (a 2GB sd card) is like this: p1, vfat, 792 MB - I use this for data, it is mounted as /media/card p2, ext3, 500 MB - this is my main os, root partition p3, ext3, 500 MB - this is another os, for testing purposes (ths is the one that Qi don't want to boot) p4, swap, 128 MB - this is a swap partition, needed in some cases or in fdisk 'p' output: Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 1967 MB, 1967128576 bytes 57 heads, 56 sectors/track, 1203 cylinders Units = cylinders of 3192 * 512 = 1634304 bytes Disk identifier: 0x Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/mmcblk0p1 6941203 8139606 FAT16 /dev/mmcblk0p2 1 307 489944 83 Linux /dev/mmcblk0p3 308 614 489972 83 Linux /dev/mmcblk0p4 615 693 126084 82 Linux swap / Solaris The kernel lives in /boot, øike this: r...@neo:/root# ls -l /boot total 1844 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 36 Aug 4 14:50 append-GTA02 -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 1877860 Sep 8 23:10 uImage-GTA02.bin Following hte name standard is necessary for this to work. With this layout, p1 is skipped and p2 is automatically booted whenever I turn on my FreeRunner with a short press of the power button. Note: it will taake 2 minutes or more before anything shows on the screen if you use QtMoko. Qi doesn't output anything unless told to do so. Note (from the Qi wiki page) that Qi will not boot from fat partitions, if that's what your are trying to do. HTH -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Torfinn Ingolfsen a écrit : Here goes: neo:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p3 /mnt neo:~# ls -l /mnt/boot total 1844 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 36 Aug 4 14:50 append-GTA02 -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 1877704 Aug 27 21:42 uImage-GTA02.bin neo:~# more /mnt/boot/append-GTA02 console=tty0 loglevel=3 rootdelay=1 Everything is a copy off p2 o I don't undertsnad why it doesn't work. Give us a cat of /etc/fstab ... Linus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Hi, On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Linus Gasser ine...@markas-al-nour.orgwrote: Give us a cat of /etc/fstab ... Here is the fstab off p2: r...@neo:/root# more /etc/fstab rootfs /autodefaults,errors=remount-ro,noatime 0 1 /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card auto defaults 0 0 /dev/mmcblk0p4 swap swapdefaults 0 0 proc/procprocdefaults 0 0 tmpfs /etc/network/run tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /var/locktmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /var/run tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /var/tmp tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /var/cache/apt tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 192.168.0.200:/ /mnt/nfs nfs noauto,nolock,soft,rsize=32768,wsize=32768 0 0 As you can see, the one on p3 is equal: r...@neo:/root# df /mnt Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/mmcblk0p3 474464313797136169 70% /mnt r...@neo:/root# more /mnt/etc/fstab rootfs /autodefaults,errors=remount-ro,noatime 0 1 /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card auto defaults 0 0 /dev/mmcblk0p4 swap swapdefaults 0 0 proc/procprocdefaults 0 0 tmpfs /etc/network/run tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /var/locktmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /var/run tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /var/tmp tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 tmpfs /var/cache/apt tmpfs defaults,noatime 0 0 192.168.0.200:/ /mnt/nfs nfs noauto,nolock,soft,rsize=32768,wsize=32768 0 0 As long as Qi adds the 'root=' parameterto the kernel cmd line, this should work, right? r...@neo:/root# cat /proc/cmdline loglevel=4 console=tty0 console=ttySAC2,115200 init=/sbin/init ro mtdparts=physmap-flash:-(nor);neo1973-nand:0x0004(qi),0x0004(depr-ub-env),0x0080(kernel),0x000a(depr),0x0004(identity-ext2),0x0f6a(rootfs) g_ether.host_addr=00:1F:11:01:0D:38 g_ether.dev_addr=00:1F:11:01:0D:38 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=1 console=tty0 loglevel=3 rootdelay=1 -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Hi, I use Qi as the bootloader on my FreeRunner. I have sevaral partitions on my SDcard: p1 - vfat data partition (only data, nothing else) p2 - ext3 primary partition, this is my main os. Currently holds QtMoko v8) p3 - this is aother ext3 primary partition, for me to keep a backup os on. Currently, it holds a copy of QtMoko v8. p4 - swap, 128Megs First I thought that the press AUX trick from the Qi wiki page would let me select which partition to boot from, but it seems like it only selects kernel, so not useful for me in this situation. Then I read about the /boot/noboot-GTA02 file, so I did 'touch /boot/noboot-GTA02' (when /dev/mmcblk0p2 was my root partition). Now Qi skips the p2 partition, but after that it justs sits therr, it won't boot the p3 partition. What can be wrong? And how do I fix it? (I have checked, and the files in /boot and elsehwere looks correct) -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
can you post the list of files on p3?, also the contents of append-GTA02 2009/9/12 Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com: Hi, I use Qi as the bootloader on my FreeRunner. I have sevaral partitions on my SDcard: p1 - vfat data partition (only data, nothing else) p2 - ext3 primary partition, this is my main os. Currently holds QtMoko v8) p3 - this is aother ext3 primary partition, for me to keep a backup os on. Currently, it holds a copy of QtMoko v8. p4 - swap, 128Megs First I thought that the press AUX trick from the Qi wiki page would let me select which partition to boot from, but it seems like it only selects kernel, so not useful for me in this situation. Then I read about the /boot/noboot-GTA02 file, so I did 'touch /boot/noboot-GTA02' (when /dev/mmcblk0p2 was my root partition). Now Qi skips the p2 partition, but after that it justs sits therr, it won't boot the p3 partition. What can be wrong? And how do I fix it? (I have checked, and the files in /boot and elsehwere looks correct) -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
I'm talking about the files on /boot of p3 partition not whole files list :) 2009/9/12 David Reyes Samblas Martinez da...@tuxbrain.com: can you post the list of files on p3?, also the contents of append-GTA02 2009/9/12 Torfinn Ingolfsen tin...@gmail.com: Hi, I use Qi as the bootloader on my FreeRunner. I have sevaral partitions on my SDcard: p1 - vfat data partition (only data, nothing else) p2 - ext3 primary partition, this is my main os. Currently holds QtMoko v8) p3 - this is aother ext3 primary partition, for me to keep a backup os on. Currently, it holds a copy of QtMoko v8. p4 - swap, 128Megs First I thought that the press AUX trick from the Qi wiki page would let me select which partition to boot from, but it seems like it only selects kernel, so not useful for me in this situation. Then I read about the /boot/noboot-GTA02 file, so I did 'touch /boot/noboot-GTA02' (when /dev/mmcblk0p2 was my root partition). Now Qi skips the p2 partition, but after that it justs sits therr, it won't boot the p3 partition. What can be wrong? And how do I fix it? (I have checked, and the files in /boot and elsehwere looks correct) -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qi - how do I make it boot from another partition on the SD card?
Hi, On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 4:33 PM, David Reyes Samblas Martinez da...@tuxbrain.com wrote: I'm talking about the files on /boot of p3 partition not whole files list :) Here goes: neo:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p3 /mnt neo:~# ls -l /mnt/boot total 1844 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 36 Aug 4 14:50 append-GTA02 -rw-r--r-- 1 1000 1000 1877704 Aug 27 21:42 uImage-GTA02.bin neo:~# more /mnt/boot/append-GTA02 console=tty0 loglevel=3 rootdelay=1 Everything is a copy off p2 o I don't undertsnad why it doesn't work. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SD-card faulty?
O Mércores, 15 de Xullo de 2009, Nicola Mfb escribiu: On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 9:56 AM, David Garabana Barroda...@garabana.com wrote: On Wednesday 15 July 2009 09:38:57 Nicola Mfb wrote: My kingston 8GB corrupts when GSM is on, some time with NSOD. http://picasaweb.google.it/nicola.mfb/Freerunner#5358587992937775330 My kingston 8GB (SDC4/8GB07) works flawlessly. I haven't had any corruption in the 4 months since I own it. To be more precise when I say it is incompatible with GSM I have to add with my operator, my sim, may often used BTS, strenght signal and so on. For others it works. BTW I have recently changed my card, becuse old one corrupted data... ;) ...but only with low GSM coverage and sooner if I turned on GPRS. I haven't realised because I don't use FR as daily phone yet, and when I tried it, I had good coverage... Now I have a 16 GB C6 trascend card (TS16GUSDHC6). I have tried it thoroughly, and even on situations where old one *allways* corrupted data (low GSM coverage, gprs on, intensive use of sdcard, f.e. with evopedia) , this one works flawlessly Hope this information helps someone. -- David Garabana Barro jabber google talk ID:da...@garabana.com Clave pública PGP/GPG: http://davide.garabana.com/pgp.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Questions about installing Android to an external SD card
vendion wrote: I want to test out Android on my freerunner but I don't want to blow away my working SHR install. I have a 2 gig microSD card that is free and can be used my question is grabbing the .tar.gz from koolu [1] according the to directions on the openmoko wiki [2] all I need to do? [1] http://www.koolu.org/releases/cupcake-1.5-alpha1/ [2] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Android_on_Freerunner#Preparing_the_SD_Card -- We must plan for freedom, and not only for security, if for no other reason than only freedom can make security more secure. Karl Popper ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I just wanted to bring up this post again and ask if anyone has successfully installed and run android from a single partition on SD. I've tried the panicking images which boot for me from the first partition, but I get a kernel panic because kernel can't find /sbin/init. Maybe the kernel is looking for init in a different partition? Hope someone can shed some light here. Russell Dwiggins -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Questions-about-installing-Android-to-an-external-SD-card-tp3291144p3532292.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
q: sd card android gta02
hi, just got my gta02 and sintalled android via koolu image. but how can i get it to accept the sd-card? any help greatly appreciated! thx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: q: sd card android gta02
tom tomabr...@gmail.com writes: just got my gta02 and sintalled android via koolu image. but how can i get it to accept the sd-card? any help greatly appreciated! Please run dmesg | grep mmc and paste the output. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: q: sd card android gta02
tom wrote: hi, just got my gta02 and sintalled android via koolu image. but how can i get it to accept the sd-card? any help greatly appreciated! I had a similar issue, whereby android is looking in the wrong location for the mmc host, see the ticket I logged about it here: http://trac.koolu.org/ticket/33 If this is the same case for you (make sure this really is the issue you're having first) then you can download my system.img file from: http://mikeasoft.com/~mike/system.img that contains a vold.conf with the alternative path selected. Replace the system.img on your SD card and rerun the installation process. It's designed to work with the koolu cupcake 1.5 alpha1 image, so make sure that's what you're using: http://koolu.org/releases/cupcake-1.5-alpha1/ Cheers, Mike. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: q: sd card android gta02
hi mike , thx for the information, reading ur mail and being a newbiw in terms of freerunner my first question would be: 1) what exaclty is the difference between koolu-andorid-release 7 and 2) http://koolu.org/releases/cupcake-1.5-alpha1/ ? thx for ur infos! tom ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: q: sd card android gta02
tom wrote: hi mike , thx for the information, reading ur mail and being a newbiw in terms of freerunner my first question would be: 1) what exaclty is the difference between koolu-andorid-release 7 and 2) http://koolu.org/releases/cupcake-1.5-alpha1/ ? The koolu beta 7 release is based around Android 1.0 (which is a little old now), where as the cupcake 1.5 alpha1 release is based around Android 1.5 (nicknamed Cupcake) which is much more recent. Cheers, Mike. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: q: sd card android gta02
the installation procedure is the same as for the koolu images? put on the sd card and boot from sd? thx On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Michael Sheldon m...@mikeasoft.com wrote: tom wrote: hi mike , thx for the information, reading ur mail and being a newbiw in terms of freerunner my first question would be: 1) what exaclty is the difference between koolu-andorid-release 7 and 2) http://koolu.org/releases/cupcake-1.5-alpha1/ ? The koolu beta 7 release is based around Android 1.0 (which is a little old now), where as the cupcake 1.5 alpha1 release is based around Android 1.5 (nicknamed Cupcake) which is much more recent. Cheers, Mike. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: q: sd card android gta02
tom wrote: the installation procedure is the same as for the koolu images? put on the sd card and boot from sd? thx Yes, unpack http://koolu.org/releases/cupcake-1.5-alpha1/android-freerunner-koolu1.5-alpha-1.tar.gz on to the sd card then overwrite system.img with my version linked to earlier in this thread. After that just boot from the sd card and it'll install. Cheers, Mike. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: q: sd card android gta02
ok just installed it, and yes, after the boot i have a new screen with the emergency call button, but i cant get beyond that one...help thx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: q: sd card android gta02
tom wrote: ok just installed it, and yes, after the boot i have a new screen with the emergency call button, but i cant get beyond that one...help thx That's not something I've encountered myself, you might have better luck asking on the android-freerunner mailing list at: http://android.koolu.org/listinfo.cgi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Questions about installing Android to an external SD card
xChris wrote: Hi, This version 'auto installs' the Android on the device (flash). I just killed my working SHR , in order to test it.. This version has some improvements but its still slow (in my opinion: non usable) (my SIM card is ok but I can't make /receive calls) Chris Thanks for trying it out, does anyone know if this is possible with a version that didn't 'auto install' if there was a release like that then I can update that to the latest version? vendion wrote: I want to test out Android on my freerunner but I don't want to blow away my working SHR install. I have a 2 gig microSD card that is free and can be used my question is grabbing the .tar.gz from koolu [1] according the to directions on the openmoko wiki [2] all I need to do? [1] http://www.koolu.org/releases/cupcake-1.5-alpha1/ [2] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Android_on_Freerunner#Preparing_the_SD_Card -- We must plan for freedom, and not only for security, if for no other reason than only freedom can make security more secure. Karl Popper ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do I need a FAT SD card? Do I need OM? Do I need... ? Choices, Choices, Choices...
On Monday 20 July 2009, Chris Samuel wrote: On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:53:03 am li...@kitepilot.com wrote: Can I just ext3 the SD card ? Be warned, there have been some reports of the journal of ext3 wearing out its part of the SD card. I tend to use ext2 instead. Real reports, or just my card broke and I don't know why, so I'll blame journalling? If there's an its part of the SD card then the wear levelling in the card is broken. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
