Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-13 Thread Yorick Moko
Seriously, you know I'm a fan of your software (wrote you a few e-mail IIRC)
but lately, in every thread I read, you are scaring away potential
contributors
and you never really answer the basic questions:

1) why don't you give people feedback on their patches?
2) why don't you use a mailinglist/SVN/bugtracker?
if you did this, you wouldn't have to worry about a fork:
3) what is bad about a fork?

I have no troubles whatsoever if you say: It's my project and I don't want
to give anybody else even the slightest influence
it's your right to do that
but ATM your words and actions are contradictory:

either say
a) that you want to do tangogps solo (or with a select few that you chose)
and tell people to fuck off with their stupid attempts at patches,
or say
b) that they are welcome to try and help out, and set up some infrastructure
or at least give them feedback
either way, there will be no need for anyone anymore to complain to you


Beaviour like this (previous e-mails) is making me consider to opkg remove
tangogps and install a fork as soon as it comes out
and no, this does not mean that forking is bad, this means that forking
gives people a choice
people will chose the best one
(like I did when we couldn't load gpx tracks in the official tangogps
version, but could in a patched version -
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005321.html -)
I forwarded you that message and got no response, for which I personally do
not blame you btw
It was only a forward and took me 2 seconds
But if I had written a patch, and got no response, I would seriously
consider not writing a patch again in the future


And yes, I'm not a programmer, but I have tried to do what I can; help
people on IRC in the early days, file bug reports, do some early testing for
a bunch of programmes, try to give feedback to the creators, add things to
the wiki, I even consider some of my posts on the ML us...)


In short:
please answer those three questions -1) 2) 3)- (or don't, that is an answer
on it's own)
and communicate a) or b)
(or c if you have a different opinion)
just make it sure that everyone knows what they can expect
because at this moment people have made efforts they wouldn't have done if
they had known were they stood (e.g. not getting any feedback to a patch)


I personally hope the project continues to evolve and improve, because I
find it a big addition to the available software on the openmoko.


Kind regards,
yorick



On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Marcus Bauer marcus.ba...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:19:25 -0400
 Stephen Pape srp...@gmail.com wrote:

  Okay. I'm not sure what you're getting at, or why you're completely
  changing the subject to make a personal attack on me over an argument
  involving software development practices.

 So when you use Google it is okay and when I use Google it is a
 personal attack? Hey, you are such a cutie :-) You should try to sue
 Google for diffamation - you could get rich quick! :D And I will join
 you because Linus Torvalds and Openmoko has a lot more Google hits
 than me and that guy has never done any work on Openmoko at all.

 I'll right tomorrow write him an email about what's wrong with his
 completely fair scheduler. I think there are situations where it is not
 fair enough. And I'll be really upset if he disregards my email just
 because I have never contributed to the kernel (almost at least).

  Maybe you should look inwards regarding your complains about developer
  ego.

 I have scheduled 4 hours for this task next weekend. You think that's
 enough?

  Good luck.

 Thank you. And thank you for your example that the best way for
 avoiding questions about forking is not to make any open source
 software at all.

 ...gosh, what a cutie Stephen is... :D

 HAVE FUN. Last mail, day over. Thanks guys.




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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-13 Thread arne anka
you are definitely off topic.
this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss  
issues with your project or ego.

those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have  
nothing to do with openmoko.

please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal needs.

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-13 Thread Alfa21-mobile

On martedì 13 aprile 2010 11:43:19, arne anka wrote:
 you are definitely off topic.
 this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss  
 issues with your project or ego.
 
 those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have  
 nothing to do with openmoko.
 
 please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal needs.
 

full quote,definitely.
regards
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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-13 Thread Alishams Hassam
On Tue, 2010-04-13 at 11:43 +0200, arne anka wrote:
 you are definitely off topic.
 this list is neither to insult others at your pleasure nor to discuss  
 issues with your project or ego.
 
 those entirely tangogps related mails are filling up my account and have  
 nothing to do with openmoko.
 
 please, stop abusing other projects infrastructure for your personal needs.
 
No, you're at least one thread too early. This discussion has been
(partly) about setting up that kind of infrastructure for tangogps. It
was originally a program for Openmoko phones and its business has always
been discussed here (afaik). In fact, only relatively recently has there
been much use outside the freerunner community. I would agree that it
needs its own infrastructure or if it's forked that fork should- but
right not this thread is appropriate here. 

And Yorick, I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis. 


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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Stefan Fröbe
Hi,
as I recently struggled with the same issues I'd like to comment on some of
the suggestions
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen
roz...@geekspace.comwrote:

 ...

Most importantly: How should I keep up with work that you're doing
 upstream between releases? Maintaining the patches that I use is vital
 to me, and it's harder to do that if I have no idea where you're going
 upstream--if I have no idea what's going to change out from under me
 with the next release.


I can only second that - I ported my geocaching enhancements from version to
version, but am becoming more and more reluctant to do so with every new
release. Any public repository would be helpful in distributing and
maintaining these features, even if they wouldn't be included immediately in
any official release.

As I said, I *do* really *like* tangoGPS--I owe you a big thanks for
 giving me a good base application on which to build!


I could not agree more - and yet I'd really appreciate it if the full
potential of community driven enhancements would also be available. In the
current state, my features collect virtual dust on my HD and will probably
never ever see a release, with chances decreasing as I loose interest in
developing them further with all the burdens of porting and adapting.

I can fully understand Marcus' focus on quality, and TangoGPS is a great
result of that approach - but still I hope that someday a reasonable public
access is possible with his help instead of forking.

Stefan
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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Timo Jyrinki
2010/4/12 Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com:
 So, how *should* I collaborate? What mailing-list should I use?
 When I fix an upstream bug, in what BTS should I publish the patch?
 Where can we talk on IRC about current developments in tangoGPS,
 if anywhere?

I agree. After my second translation patch (fixing a few typos and
adding a few more translations) was not included, found out only by
waiting a few months for the next TangoGPS code drop, I dropped
contributing until there is a proper version control system where one
can see if changes are committed or not, and a mailing list. It's now
been a year or two since that.

There is unofficial, non-endorsed IRC channel nowadays. I wouldn't
mind if there was an unofficial, non-endorsed version control system
and mailing list as well.

-Timo

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:47:55 +0300
Timo Jyrinki timo.jyri...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wouldn't mind if there was an unofficial, non-endorsed version
 control system and mailing list as well.

Essentially it is the constant threads about forks that have been
started and fuelled over and over again by Risto that keep me having
always a few aces in my sleeve and restricting access to people who I
have confidence that they keep the project over their ego.

As long as nobody speaks up and tells them to shut up, I'll
certainly keep having aces in my sleeve :-)

Nevertheless, this totally doesn't prevent anybody to participate in
the development. In any case up to today nobody here came to me and
said: hey, how can I help out with the project? and was refused.

It is important to show that these are a few -albeit very vocal-
people who first want to serve their ego and then the users of the
project.

The fork shouters are known as poisonous people and they can befall any
project. There is a Google talk about the subject from the SVN
developers.

Marcus


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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Marcus Bauer

Hi Stefan

before it gets lost in all the other discussions: I'd still be happy to
integrate this.

Remarks:
 * it must be usable for people that have not signed for the 30$
   premium account
 * everything must work from the user interface, command line is not an
   option
 * no python dependency - you can use either libsoup or libcurl

Send me your last working tarball and I'll have a look and make
suggestions or give you a hand.

Marcus



On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:46:46 +0200
Stefan Fröbe frob...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 as I recently struggled with the same issues I'd like to comment on
 some of the suggestions
 On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen
 roz...@geekspace.comwrote:
 
  ...
 
 Most importantly: How should I keep up with work that you're doing
  upstream between releases? Maintaining the patches that I use is
  vital to me, and it's harder to do that if I have no idea where
  you're going upstream--if I have no idea what's going to change out
  from under me with the next release.
 
 
 I can only second that - I ported my geocaching enhancements from
 version to version, but am becoming more and more reluctant to do so
 with every new release. Any public repository would be helpful in
 distributing and maintaining these features, even if they wouldn't be
 included immediately in any official release.
 
 As I said, I *do* really *like* tangoGPS--I owe you a big thanks for
  giving me a good base application on which to build!
 
 
 I could not agree more - and yet I'd really appreciate it if the full
 potential of community driven enhancements would also be available.
 In the current state, my features collect virtual dust on my HD and
 will probably never ever see a release, with chances decreasing as I
 loose interest in developing them further with all the burdens of
 porting and adapting.
 
 I can fully understand Marcus' focus on quality, and TangoGPS is a
 great result of that approach - but still I hope that someday a
 reasonable public access is possible with his help instead of forking.
 
 Stefan

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Stefan Fröbe
Hi Marcus,

I guess with those prerequisites I won't make any geocaching submission soon
- while all the features are usable as long as you have obtained a GPX file
with all the data, the conversion to an sqlite3 db is done on the CLI with
(one call to) bash/python scripts.

Looking at gpxview [1], for example, I do not want to re-implement all that
again - and as that program now also compiles cleanly without any Maemo
dependancies on my desktop and also has maps support, there might no longer
be a point to patching TangoGPS. GPXView just is more specific and may
therefore well be the better tool for geocaching.

But thanks for the offer, I'll check my history for any other patches I got
queued and come back to you,

Stefan

[1] https://vcs.maemo.org/viewvc/trunk/?root=gpxview


 before it gets lost in all the other discussions: I'd still be happy to
 integrate this.

 Remarks:
  * it must be usable for people that have not signed for the 30$
   premium account
  * everything must work from the user interface, command line is not an
   option
  * no python dependency - you can use either libsoup or libcurl

 Send me your last working tarball and I'll have a look and make
 suggestions or give you a hand.

 Marcus



 On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:46:46 +0200
 Stefan Fröbe frob...@googlemail.com wrote:

  Hi,
  as I recently struggled with the same issues I'd like to comment on
  some of the suggestions
  On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen
  roz...@geekspace.comwrote:
 
   ...
 
  Most importantly: How should I keep up with work that you're doing
   upstream between releases? Maintaining the patches that I use is
   vital to me, and it's harder to do that if I have no idea where
   you're going upstream--if I have no idea what's going to change out
   from under me with the next release.
 
 
  I can only second that - I ported my geocaching enhancements from
  version to version, but am becoming more and more reluctant to do so
  with every new release. Any public repository would be helpful in
  distributing and maintaining these features, even if they wouldn't be
  included immediately in any official release.
 
  As I said, I *do* really *like* tangoGPS--I owe you a big thanks for
   giving me a good base application on which to build!
 
 
  I could not agree more - and yet I'd really appreciate it if the full
  potential of community driven enhancements would also be available.
  In the current state, my features collect virtual dust on my HD and
  will probably never ever see a release, with chances decreasing as I
  loose interest in developing them further with all the burdens of
  porting and adapting.
 
  I can fully understand Marcus' focus on quality, and TangoGPS is a
  great result of that approach - but still I hope that someday a
  reasonable public access is possible with his help instead of forking.
 
  Stefan

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Timo Jyrinki
2010/4/12 Marcus Bauer marcus.ba...@gmail.com:
 Essentially it is the constant threads about forks that have been
 started and fuelled over and over again by Risto that keep me having
 always a few aces in my sleeve and restricting access to people who I
 have confidence that they keep the project over their ego.

I don't know what egos you are discussing (I haven't followed previous
TangoGPS discussions that closely). You can restrict any access even
if you allow read-only following of the development version source
control. It's essential for any open source development project with
more than one person interested in developing it. The fear of forks is
probably simply because currently there is no way to really have a
development project where others than one person can eventually affect
the future of the project. E-mail patches without return channel or
follow-up possibility does not really work.

Anyway, I personally wouldn't want a fork, if it can be avoided. The
developer community, if there is more than one person, just completely
needs developer tools like version control and mailing lists, which
are currently not available for this project, and have been in absence
even despite months of silence on the front (so no shutting up of
anyone needed). I was thinking about a system where latest source code
is imported and patches can be tracked, which are applied, which are
pending review, which are rejected etc.

-Timo

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:32:59 +0200
Stefan Fröbe frob...@googlemail.com wrote:
 I guess with those prerequisites I won't make any geocaching
 submission soon
 - while all the features are usable as long as you have obtained a
 GPX file with all the data, the conversion to an sqlite3 db is done
 on the CLI with (one call to) bash/python scripts.


Well, .LOC should be possible and for reading GPX files there is
already code in tangoGPS. Running a loop over the GPX and inserting it
in a db is probably in a few dozen lines of code possible. I could have
a look into it. Up to you.

Marcus

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Stephen Pape
Aces in your sleeve? You mean you're keeping the development process
intentionally closed to discourage forkers? What?

There's no reason you can't have a public SVN with read only access to
everyone except your chosen few. Google code or sourceforge would work
fine.

Why does all this discussion go on in the openmoko mailing list
anyway? Why don't you have your own project forums/bug
tracking/mailing list/whatever?

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Marcus Bauer marcus.ba...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:47:55 +0300
 Timo Jyrinki timo.jyri...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wouldn't mind if there was an unofficial, non-endorsed version
 control system and mailing list as well.

 Essentially it is the constant threads about forks that have been
 started and fuelled over and over again by Risto that keep me having
 always a few aces in my sleeve and restricting access to people who I
 have confidence that they keep the project over their ego.

 As long as nobody speaks up and tells them to shut up, I'll
 certainly keep having aces in my sleeve :-)

 Nevertheless, this totally doesn't prevent anybody to participate in
 the development. In any case up to today nobody here came to me and
 said: hey, how can I help out with the project? and was refused.

 It is important to show that these are a few -albeit very vocal-
 people who first want to serve their ego and then the users of the
 project.

 The fork shouters are known as poisonous people and they can befall any
 project. There is a Google talk about the subject from the SVN
 developers.

 Marcus


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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:02:05 -0400
Stephen Pape srp...@gmail.com wrote:

 Aces in your sleeve? You mean you're keeping the development process
 intentionally closed to discourage forkers? What?

I happily explain it again to you: forks are potentially damaging to any
project. Here and actually only here on openmoko there have been some
people actually massively aggressing me and threatening me on any
occasion with a fork. So yes, you got that right :)

I do not always have time to work on tangoGPS and still can do a
constant flow of new features. You are a funny man - big scandale that
not all my brain activity is monitorable :) I know that RMS would like
to enclose all software developers in a gulag with constant thought
monitoring - yeah! Any software thought must be freed at once :)

Just to mention it: the linux kernel had been developed for the first
years purely based on tarballs and patches without any public
distributed VCS and collaboration has worked without problems. Simply
because in 1992 pretty much nobody had a 24/7 permanent online internet
access.

It is not as if 80% of the code changes in a week. And it is not as if
there would be legions of willing developers. Actually any open source
project that I know is short of good developers and much more software
doesn't even get developed because people lack skill, focus, energy and
long term commitment.

Last not least I am replying here because the thread was opened here
and because many people have bought Freerunners to run tangoGPS on them.

A last word: the vast majority of the members of the Openmoko community
are here for the opportunities that open hardware and open software
offer. Hwoever a small fraction has a misunderstanding about free
software. I have seriously received bizarre emails of people telling me
what I have to do because I am a free software developer and as they
don't know how to write software I have to do it for them.

Best regards,
Marcus - creator of successful free software :-)






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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Stephen Pape
 I do not always have time to work on tangoGPS and still can do a
 constant flow of new features. You are a funny man - big scandale that
 not all my brain activity is monitorable :) I know that RMS would like
 to enclose all software developers in a gulag with constant thought
 monitoring - yeah! Any software thought must be freed at once :)

No one is asking you to dump every thought you have for public
viewing. I don't think a publicly viewable SVN server, so people have
some sense of what's going on, takes it to your extreme scenario. They
would, however, like to know if their patch was accepted, if there was
a problem with it, or if someone's working on a similar feature at the
same time.

 Just to mention it: the linux kernel had been developed for the first
 years purely based on tarballs and patches without any public
 distributed VCS and collaboration has worked without problems. Simply
 because in 1992 pretty much nobody had a 24/7 permanent online internet
 access.

Sure, that was fine way back then. Times have changed, and people do
have 24/7 permanent online internet access. You'll notice the kernel
developers shifted away from that development approach.

 A last word: the vast majority of the members of the Openmoko community
 are here for the opportunities that open hardware and open software
 offer. Hwoever a small fraction has a misunderstanding about free
 software. I have seriously received bizarre emails of people telling me
 what I have to do because I am a free software developer and as they
 don't know how to write software I have to do it for them.

This has nothing to do with people telling you what to do because they
can't write software.

I'm not saying you have to give up control and let people hijack the
direction you want to go in. I'm saying when someone takes the time
and energy required to write a patch, they should know if it's going
to be accepted or rejected without having to wait for the next
release. They should get a chance to clean it up if there's a problem.
There should be discussion so someone can ask if they should even
bother doing the work and get feedback.

Your current approach discourages anyone from contributing back to
you, and yet you discourage anyone from creating a fork. Have you seen
the people trying to help? Someone mentioned feeling like they're
trying to hit a moving target, while blindfolded, just to help out.

Forking is not a bad thing. In fact, sometimes forks end up being more
successful than the original project. Xorg from XFree86 ? How about
gcc? Apache, maybe?
I'd suggest you read this if you have a fear of forking
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/forking.html (WHY LINUX
WON'T FORK: And why being able to fork is still A Good Thing)

I tried to find something explaining how forking hurts open source
software, but I couldn't find any useful results with Google. If
someone feels they can do a better job, I'd encourage them to try
forking.

-Stephen

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Marcus Bauer

Hi Stephen,

thanks for your feedback - especially as you are a programmer as you
once stated on the openmoko mailing list [1].


On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:36:38 -0400
Stephen Pape srp...@gmail.com wrote:

 but I couldn't find any useful results with Google. 

Dang! I have exactly the same problem when trying to find 'useful
results with Google' when searching for your contributions to Openmoko:

stephen pape openmoko - 18 results (2 from this discussion)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=%22stephen+pape%22+openmokostart=10


Well, have a nice evening and dream well :-)
Marcus



[1] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/014875.html

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Stephen Pape
Okay. I'm not sure what you're getting at, or why you're completely
changing the subject to make a personal attack on me over an argument
involving software development practices.
I haven't been very active with openmoko, so I guess that makes
anything I say invalid? And you're the one complaining about
developers with egos?

You still haven't been able to produce any useful argument about why
forking is bad for open source, and how keeping the development
process under your own strict control helps open source.

 Best regards,
 Marcus - creator of successful free software :-)

Maybe you should look inwards regarding your complains about developer
ego. I suspect this is why you don't want anyone else forking your
code.

Good luck.

-Stephen

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Marcus Bauer marcus.ba...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Stephen,

 thanks for your feedback - especially as you are a programmer as you
 once stated on the openmoko mailing list [1].


 On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:36:38 -0400
 Stephen Pape srp...@gmail.com wrote:

 but I couldn't find any useful results with Google.

 Dang! I have exactly the same problem when trying to find 'useful
 results with Google' when searching for your contributions to Openmoko:

 stephen pape openmoko - 18 results (2 from this discussion)
 http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=%22stephen+pape%22+openmokostart=10


 Well, have a nice evening and dream well :-)
 Marcus



 [1] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/014875.html

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:19:25 -0400
Stephen Pape srp...@gmail.com wrote:

 Okay. I'm not sure what you're getting at, or why you're completely
 changing the subject to make a personal attack on me over an argument
 involving software development practices.

So when you use Google it is okay and when I use Google it is a
personal attack? Hey, you are such a cutie :-) You should try to sue
Google for diffamation - you could get rich quick! :D And I will join
you because Linus Torvalds and Openmoko has a lot more Google hits
than me and that guy has never done any work on Openmoko at all.

I'll right tomorrow write him an email about what's wrong with his
completely fair scheduler. I think there are situations where it is not
fair enough. And I'll be really upset if he disregards my email just
because I have never contributed to the kernel (almost at least).

 Maybe you should look inwards regarding your complains about developer
 ego. 

I have scheduled 4 hours for this task next weekend. You think that's
enough?

 Good luck.

Thank you. And thank you for your example that the best way for
avoiding questions about forking is not to make any open source
software at all. 

...gosh, what a cutie Stephen is... :D

HAVE FUN. Last mail, day over. Thanks guys.




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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-12 Thread Stephen Pape
Now it's just getting silly.

 So when you use Google it is okay and when I use Google it is a
 personal attack? Hey, you are such a cutie :-)

You're just twisting words and sidestepping arguments. You used Google
to specifically try and prove that I don't know what I'm talking
about. You're turning a discussion on development methodology into
name calling. (Cutie? Really?)

I used Google looking for an argument against forking, trying to
figure out what you're talking about. You keep saying it hurts open
software. As far as I can tell, the open software community seems to
think the ability to fork at any time is a major benefit. You can get
around projects that have limitations or refuse to move forward. If
your fork fails, it's no big deal, but there's always a chance that
it'll become the next great thing.

Of course you don't want to discuss it, it's easier to be petty and
make it personal.

 You should try to sue Google for diffamation - you could get rich quick! :D
 And I will join you because Linus Torvalds and Openmoko has a lot more
 Google hits than me and that guy has never done any work on Openmoko at all.

Who said anything about suing anyone? When did I ever indicate that I
care who has more Google hits? I couldn't care less.
This isn't a competition for fame, stop making it out to be one.

 I'll right tomorrow write him an email about what's wrong with his
 completely fair scheduler. I think there are situations where it is not
 fair enough. And I'll be really upset if he disregards my email just
 because I have never contributed to the kernel (almost at least).

I'm not challenging your code itself, or telling you that you don't
know what you're doing. It's not comparable to your example.

 Thank you. And thank you for your example that the best way for
 avoiding questions about forking is not to make any open source
 software at all.

When did I make an example that you should make closed source software
to avoid questions about forking?
Obviously you're going to continue being unreasonable, and now you're
down to name calling and blatantly making things up, so I won't bother
with this line of discussion anymore.

I feel bad for all of the developers that want to help. I wouldn't
want to have to work with you.

-Stephen

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tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

2010-04-11 Thread Joshua Judson Rosen
Marcus,

Thank you for your responses today; however, I'm still not clear on
the answers to my questions. Maybe I can be more specific, below...:

Marcus Bauer marcus.ba...@gmail.com writes:

 On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 23:06:48 -0400
 Joshua Judson Rosen roz...@geekspace.com wrote:
 
I have a patch that makes it possible to scale the details on maps
(e.g.: text, icons, line-widths) and change the amount of detail
shown without zooming the map; 
  
  So, when you select `fewer, bigger details', the code just decreases
  *pixel-density* and a `zoom-level offset' adjusted accordingly.
  The map remains at the same zoom-level; but the text and icons get
  bigger, the streets and other lines get wider; the amount of
  visual `clutter' decreases, and information-clarity goes up.
  
  If you select `more, smaller details', the pixel-density is increased
  and the zoom-offset adjusted in the other direction. Again, the map
  remains at the same zoom-level; but the text and icons get smaller,
  the streets and other lines become thinner; the amount of information
  visible at a given zoom-level (the information-density) increases.
 
 This patch is potentially interesting on the Freerunner due to the 3x
 higher dpi of the screen.

Also on the Nokia portables, I'd imagine--while their pixel-density is
somewhat lower than the FreeRunner's, it's still quite remarkably
high: ~225 pixels per inch, I think.

 The patch makes future extensions for layers, non-merkatoor and no
 wgs84 more error prone

Oh--now that's quite interesting: if those are lines of development
that you're currently pursuing, I look forward to reading about them--
I hope that you'll find some time to post something on your weblog.

Now, more to the point...:

 and therefore currently is not suitable for tangoGPS.

Which is fine. It doesn't matter so much to me whether other people
have a use for the features that I implement--both of the features
that I've mentioned in this thread were developed, after all,
primarily because I needed them. I'm not looking to make a name for
myself with this--I've already made a name for myself, and am quite
comfortable with my professional standing :)

I *would* like to make my patches *available* for other people to be
able to find them and use them if they like, and there are also other
functional additions that I'd like to build on top of tangoGPS--which
I'd like to develop openly and with opportunities for the community to
participate; which is why I asked where I should be posting this stuff.
As you say, tangoGPS has a much broader scope than just OpenMoko
at this point, so the `openmoko community' list is surely not
the right venue. But this is where I've posted feature-additions,
bug-fixes, etc. because it wasn't evident where else I should;
I haven't seen any evidence of an actual `tangoGPS mailing-list'.

So, how *should* I collaborate? What mailing-list should I use?
When I fix an upstream bug, in what BTS should I publish the patch?
Where can we talk on IRC about current developments in tangoGPS,
if anywhere?

Most importantly: How should I keep up with work that you're doing
upstream between releases? Maintaining the patches that I use is vital
to me, and it's harder to do that if I have no idea where you're going
upstream--if I have no idea what's going to change out from under me
with the next release. I know you can appreciate that concern, given
the recent gpsd episode :)

You've also mentioned some valuable functional additions that you have
scheduled for sometime in tangoGPS' future, which I'd love to help
make happen sooner; it'd be much easier to come up with patches that
were likely to be acceptable upstream if there were more transparency
in upstream development: a public (for read access) version-control
repository would be *ideal*, but I haven't been able to find one for
tangoGPS. If you're using one of the *distributed* VC tools (like Git,
Bazaar, et al.) then I'd *really* like to know the URL for your public
archive--the benefits from those systems are just huge.

As it is, I feel like I'm trying to track a moving target... with a
blindfold on. The fact that there is `source' material apparently
missing from the tangoGPS release tarballs doesn't help: it looks like
the GUI was done in Glade and C code was autogenerated from that,
but there is no glade-XML file to found in the release tarballs.
Are you even still using glade? If so, where is the `.glade' file?

That's one of the reasons (along with the others listed above) that I
keep asking if you have a public VC repository somewhere and I've just
overlooked it..., and am hoping to get a response some day :)


 However, you can ask the packagers of SHR etc. if they are
 interested in inclusion.

Certainly--and I just heard from someone today that my `detail-scaling'
patch was just the sort of thing for which he had been looking,
so maybe I will forward a copy to shr-devel in case they want it.

Though, If I was them, I'd be quite