Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Joe Abley]

On 13 Apr 2017, at 23:45, Chevalier du Borg  wrote:

> 2017-04-13 18:37 GMT+04:00 Joe Abley :
> However, I found Kieran's article to be pretty balanced and accurate.
> 
> You can say that if you did not read the title and subtitle

I guess we can just agree to disagree on that.


Joe


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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Chevalier du Borg]

2017-04-13 18:37 GMT+04:00 Joe Abley :

> However, I found Kieran's article to be pretty balanced and accurate.


You can say that if you did not read the title and subtitle

"
No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet accessAfrinic
considers punitive policy for errant governments
"

By not making different between the community and the company, it is
misleading. sensational liek fake news. i agree the content is ok, but is
not excusable because of the title and subtitle.


-- 
Borg le Chevalier
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC

[Mike Silber]

Where did I say I support Kieran?

I simply indicated that the attempt to blame the policy authors for Kieran's 
errors is unwarranted. 


> On 13 Apr 2017, at 20:35, Tutu Ngcaba  wrote:
> 
> Hello Brother Mike Silber,
> 
> That Kieren McCarthy Author writes mistakes that even in comments of that bad 
> article about the Afrinic, people have redicule the Afrinic and you can see 
> even the CEO of the Afrinic has made clarificarions to this McCarthy.
> 
> Even the article title very misleading and call him well known. Maybe he 
> should not write about the Afrinic anymore. This is bad image for our 
> motherland.
> 
> Someone even saying we will be like North Korea and such bad articles dont 
> even give solution. African is a different place my brothers, let us solve 
> our challengew ourselves.
> 
> Why are you even supporting this McCarthy? 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Tutu Ngcaba
> Kwazulu Techno Hubs
> South Africa
> 
> On 13 Apr 2017 9:21 p.m., "Mike Silber"  wrote:
> Arnaud 
> 
> Kieren McCarthy is a well known author and commentator on Internet issues.
> 
> He follows various lists.
> 
> This was a public policy proposal. Nothing to stop an external party from 
> picking it up.
> 
> So please don't impute the authors of the proposal just because someone wrote 
> an article.
> 
> Mike
> 
>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 at 2:27 PM Arnaud AMELINA  wrote:
>> English : 
>> 
>> Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the 
>> initiators of this Article ???
>> 
>> Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted 
>> externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is 
>> unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the different 
>> leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the indelices
>> 
>> The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the subject 
>> in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the BOARD.
>> 
>> 
>> French : 
>> Chers membre de la communauté, Quel est le but visé par les auteurs et les 
>> initiateurs de cet Article ??? 
>> Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopté à 
>> l'extérieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est 
>> innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite à AFRINIC, que les différents 
>> responsables prennent leurs respponsabilités et rappellent à l'odre les 
>> indélicats. 
>> 
>> Le nom d'AFRINIC a été engagé dans cet article alors même que le sujet en 
>> question ne soit ratifié par la communauté d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. 
>> 
>> 
>>
>>   Data Centre Software Security Transformation DevOps Business Personal Tech 
>> Science Emergent Tech Bootnotes  
>> Data Centre
>> 
>>  
>> Networks
>> 
>> No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access
>> 
>> Afrinic considers punitive policy for errant governments
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy
>> Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find 
>> themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of 
>> the five global IP allocation organizations.
>> 
>> The suggested clampdown will be considered at the next meeting of internet 
>> registry Afrinic in Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and 
>> allocating IP address blocks across Africa.
>> 
>> Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official rules 
>> that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP address 
>> to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an internet 
>> shutdown.
>> 
>> The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a 
>> "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover any 
>> transfer of address space to those entities from others.
>> 
>> That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to pull 
>> the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a 
>> government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years – 
>> all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no 
>> allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years."
>> 
>> The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of complete 
>> nationwide shutdowns of internet service – something that has been a cause 
>> of increasing concern and ire within the internet infrastructure community.
>> 
>> The start
>> 
>> The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when 
>> authorities killed the entire's country web access prior to a big protest 
>> march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies reported troops turning 
>> up at their homes and pointing guns at their families in order to enforce 
>> the shutdown.
>> 
>> Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to turn 
>> off internet access to their entire nation. Soon 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC

[Tutu Ngcaba]

Hello Brother Mike Silber,

That Kieren McCarthy Author writes mistakes that even in comments of that
bad article about the Afrinic, people have redicule the Afrinic and you can
see even the CEO of the Afrinic has made clarificarions to this McCarthy.

Even the article title very misleading and call him well known. Maybe he
should not write about the Afrinic anymore. This is bad image for our
motherland.

Someone even saying we will be like North Korea and such bad articles dont
even give solution. African is a different place my brothers, let us solve
our challengew ourselves.

Why are you even supporting this McCarthy?

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa

On 13 Apr 2017 9:21 p.m., "Mike Silber"  wrote:

Arnaud

Kieren McCarthy is a well known author and commentator on Internet issues.

He follows various lists.

This was a public policy proposal. Nothing to stop an external party from
picking it up.

So please don't impute the authors of the proposal just because someone
wrote an article.

Mike

On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 at 2:27 PM Arnaud AMELINA  wrote:

> *English :*
>
> Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the
> initiators of this Article ???
>
> Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted
> externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is
> unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the different
> leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the indelices
>
> The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the subject
> in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the BOARD.
>
>
> *French :*
> Chers membre de la communauté, Quel est le but visé par les auteurs et les
> initiateurs de cet Article ??? 
> Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopté à
> l'extérieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est
> innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite à AFRINIC, que les différents
> responsables prennent leurs respponsabilités et rappellent à l'odre les
> indélicats.
>
> Le nom d'AFRINIC a été engagé dans cet article alors même que le sujet en
> question ne soit ratifié par la communauté d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD.
>
>
> 
> [image: Twitter]  
> [image:
> Facebook]  [image: G+]
>  [image: LinkedIn]
> 
> [image: Home]  Data Centre
>  Software
>  Security
>  Transformation
>  DevOps
>  Business
>  Personal Tech
>  Science
>  Emergent Tech
>  Bootnotes
>  [image: search]
> 
> Data Centre  [image: Arrow]
> Networks 
> No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic
> considers punitive policy for errant governments
> [image: reddit]
>
> 
> [image: Twitter]
>
> 
> [image: Facebook]
> [image: linkedin]
>
> 
> 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy
> 
>
> Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find
> themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of
> the five global IP allocation organizations.
>
> The suggested clampdown
> 
> will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in
> Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP
> address blocks across Africa.
>
> Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official
> rules that 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC

[Arnaud AMELINA]

2017-04-13 17:00 GMT+00:00 Tutu Ngcaba :

> Brother Arnaud,
>
> I also follow comments from that register article and a lot of people
> ridicule the Africa community which is not good due to mistake from that
> Author McCathry.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tutu Ngcaba
> Kwazulu Techno Hubs
> South Africa
>
>
Brother Tutu, I followed with attention all of your intervention.
Congratulation, for your good and wised observations.

Regards

Arnaud.

>
> On 13 Apr 2017 3:27 p.m., "Arnaud AMELINA"  wrote:
>
>> *English :*
>>
>> Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the
>> initiators of this Article ???
>>
>> Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted
>> externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is
>> unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the
>> different leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the
>> indelices
>>
>> The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the
>> subject in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the
>> BOARD.
>>
>>
>> *French :*
>> Chers membre de la communauté, Quel est le but visé par les auteurs et
>> les initiateurs de cet Article ??? 
>> Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopté à
>> l'extérieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est
>> innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite à AFRINIC, que les différents
>> responsables prennent leurs respponsabilités et rappellent à l'odre les
>> indélicats.
>>
>> Le nom d'AFRINIC a été engagé dans cet article alors même que le sujet en
>> question ne soit ratifié par la communauté d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD.
>>
>>
>> 
>> [image: Twitter]
>>  [image:
>> Facebook]  [image: G+]
>>  [image: LinkedIn]
>> 
>> [image: Home]  Data Centre
>>  Software
>>  Security
>>  Transformation
>>  DevOps
>>  Business
>>  Personal Tech
>>  Science
>>  Emergent Tech
>>  Bootnotes
>>  [image: search]
>> 
>> Data Centre  [image: Arrow]
>> Networks 
>> No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic
>> considers punitive policy for errant governments
>> [image: reddit]
>>
>> 
>> [image: Twitter]
>>
>> 
>> [image: Facebook]
>> [image: linkedin]
>>
>> 
>> 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy
>> 
>>
>> Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find
>> themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of
>> the five global IP allocation organizations.
>>
>> The suggested clampdown
>> 
>> will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in
>> Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP
>> address blocks across Africa.
>>
>> Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official
>> rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP
>> address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an
>> internet shutdown.
>>
>> The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a
>> "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover
>> any transfer of address space to those entities from others.
>>
>> That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to
>> pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC

[Mike Silber]

Arnaud

Kieren McCarthy is a well known author and commentator on Internet issues.

He follows various lists.

This was a public policy proposal. Nothing to stop an external party from
picking it up.

So please don't impute the authors of the proposal just because someone
wrote an article.

Mike

On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 at 2:27 PM Arnaud AMELINA  wrote:

> *English :*
>
> Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the
> initiators of this Article ???
>
> Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted
> externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is
> unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the different
> leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the indelices
>
> The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the subject
> in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the BOARD.
>
>
> *French :*
> Chers membre de la communauté, Quel est le but visé par les auteurs et les
> initiateurs de cet Article ??? 
> Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopté à
> l'extérieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est
> innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite à AFRINIC, que les différents
> responsables prennent leurs respponsabilités et rappellent à l'odre les
> indélicats.
>
> Le nom d'AFRINIC a été engagé dans cet article alors même que le sujet en
> question ne soit ratifié par la communauté d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD.
>
>
> 
> [image: Twitter]  
> [image:
> Facebook]  [image: G+]
>  [image: LinkedIn]
> 
> [image: Home]  Data Centre
>  Software
>  Security
>  Transformation
>  DevOps
>  Business
>  Personal Tech
>  Science
>  Emergent Tech
>  Bootnotes
>  [image: search]
> 
> Data Centre  [image: Arrow]
> Networks 
> No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic
> considers punitive policy for errant governments
> [image: reddit]
>
> 
> [image: Twitter]
>
> 
> [image: Facebook]
> [image: linkedin]
>
> 
> 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy
> 
>
> Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find
> themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of
> the five global IP allocation organizations.
>
> The suggested clampdown
> 
> will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in
> Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP
> address blocks across Africa.
>
> Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official
> rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP
> address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an
> internet shutdown.
>
> The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a
> "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover
> any transfer of address space to those entities from others.
>
> That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to
> pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a
> government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years
> – all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no
> allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years."
>
> The proposal was sparked 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Ish Sookun]

Hi Kris,

On 04/13/2017 08:28 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote:
> In mauritius we know it was again the minister via the PMO who requested
> to take down Face Book. Without the press we ma have been at a stall mate.

Thanks for clarifying your point.

For the above though, as you said, it is thanks to the "press". Somehow
that was my point, as the press acted as an influencer while the
authority blindly executed the orders received from the PMO. It is this
sort of difference that I am hinting at.

Unfortunately we do not have groups that can really tackle a draconian
measure of the government. The press does it but when it comes to
matters relating to the internet, sadly, other group(s) should intervene.

I do get your point to include gov officials so that they too understand
the impact of such decisions/measures.

Regards,

-- 
Ish Sookun

I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Timothy Ola Akinfenwa]

Hi All,
+1 to all shared views above. Will only add that when bringing Government
officials, please invite "politicians" with sound ICT background knowledge
who know or have an idea of what we are talking about. Most ministers of
ICT are not politician​s and vice versa. The discussion should be centered
on/around the major players.

Tim

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Kris Seeburn  wrote:

> Hi Ish,
>
> In this particular situation it is not the technology people who are
> really concerned directly. That i why i proposed those people as they need
> to understand the real impact. The conditions whereby having technies only
> is not going to help; The discussion with AFGWG (African Government Working
> Group) these mainly come down to Regulators. This subject of shutdown has
> more direct implication to the ministers themselves. Whe they really
> understand the impact that they have on there country, they would start
> seeing the real issue.
>
> When we go back to ITU for example the representatives of the countries at
> ITU is the minister hie’her advisors and the regulator. As much as we want
> to see more techies they are not the deciders to shut down the internet.
> They already know how to execute and shut down.
>
> Thats why i proposed to put these people on board. If they can go to an
> ITU general assembly they should see the importance of there relative
> actions. The government approach is important and even more at this point
> because they are the every ones who take the decisions. in egypt the staff
> were held at gun point to turn off the internet connectivity. In mauritius
> we know it was again the minister via the PMO who requested to take down
> Face Book. Without the press we ma have been at a stall mate.
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Ish Sookun  wrote:
>
> Hi Kris,
>
> On 04/13/2017 06:53 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote:
>
> May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as
> well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as
> important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them
> on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors
> to the minister of ICT.  Just thought as they are key to anything that
> happens.
>
>
> I see Alan has mentioned that the meeting is happening in Kenya. If that
> were in a local context, i.e Mauritius, I would be a little skeptical to
> have the TCI Minister or "senior advisors" involved.
>
> Advisors or officers close to ministers are mostly known to be yes-man,
> while the ministers themselves have most of the time little experience
> in the field of technology, communication or yet about innovation. The
> post of advisor is often given as "gift" to political agents who might
> not necessarily have any interest beyond their own political advancement
> (instead of technology advancement).
>
> It might produce better results to have people who are technology
> influencers and who understand & can also disseminate the information in
> the right way. Digital freedom activists are to be considered as well.
> NGOs involved in the promotion of technology for social impact are good
> candidates.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Ish Sookun
>
> I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu.
>
>
> Kris Seeburn
> seebur...@gmail.com
>
>- www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Tutu Ngcaba]

Dear Brother Ish,

You are very correct. Most of the politicians are ignorant about technology
even the ministers are normally not technology people.

I remember the senator of America called Ted Cruz who went to the USA
congress to propose ideas that  can stop a piece of Internet the ICANN from
being managed under global governance.

So sometimes the politicians are ignorant. So the Afrinic should invite
technical government people who can explain to the politicians in lay man
language about importance of open internet.

This problem is very serious and more education and engagement is the best
way and platform to reach out to the politicians.

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa


On 13 Apr 2017 7:19 p.m., "Ish Sookun"  wrote:

> Hi Kris,
>
> On 04/13/2017 06:53 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote:
> > May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as
> > well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as
> > important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them
> > on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors
> > to the minister of ICT.  Just thought as they are key to anything that
> > happens.
>
> I see Alan has mentioned that the meeting is happening in Kenya. If that
> were in a local context, i.e Mauritius, I would be a little skeptical to
> have the TCI Minister or "senior advisors" involved.
>
> Advisors or officers close to ministers are mostly known to be yes-man,
> while the ministers themselves have most of the time little experience
> in the field of technology, communication or yet about innovation. The
> post of advisor is often given as "gift" to political agents who might
> not necessarily have any interest beyond their own political advancement
> (instead of technology advancement).
>
> It might produce better results to have people who are technology
> influencers and who understand & can also disseminate the information in
> the right way. Digital freedom activists are to be considered as well.
> NGOs involved in the promotion of technology for social impact are good
> candidates.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Ish Sookun
>
> I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu.
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Kris Seeburn]

Hi Ish,

In this particular situation it is not the technology people who are really 
concerned directly. That i why i proposed those people as they need to 
understand the real impact. The conditions whereby having technies only is not 
going to help; The discussion with AFGWG (African Government Working Group) 
these mainly come down to Regulators. This subject of shutdown has more direct 
implication to the ministers themselves. Whe they really understand the impact 
that they have on there country, they would start seeing the real issue.

When we go back to ITU for example the representatives of the countries at ITU 
is the minister hie’her advisors and the regulator. As much as we want to see 
more techies they are not the deciders to shut down the internet. They already 
know how to execute and shut down.

Thats why i proposed to put these people on board. If they can go to an ITU 
general assembly they should see the importance of there relative actions. The 
government approach is important and even more at this point because they are 
the every ones who take the decisions. in egypt the staff were held at gun 
point to turn off the internet connectivity. In mauritius we know it was again 
the minister via the PMO who requested to take down Face Book. Without the 
press we ma have been at a stall mate.



> On Apr 13, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Ish Sookun  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kris,
> 
> On 04/13/2017 06:53 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote:
>> May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as
>> well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as
>> important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them
>> on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors
>> to the minister of ICT.  Just thought as they are key to anything that
>> happens.
> 
> I see Alan has mentioned that the meeting is happening in Kenya. If that
> were in a local context, i.e Mauritius, I would be a little skeptical to
> have the TCI Minister or "senior advisors" involved.
> 
> Advisors or officers close to ministers are mostly known to be yes-man,
> while the ministers themselves have most of the time little experience
> in the field of technology, communication or yet about innovation. The
> post of advisor is often given as "gift" to political agents who might
> not necessarily have any interest beyond their own political advancement
> (instead of technology advancement).
> 
> It might produce better results to have people who are technology
> influencers and who understand & can also disseminate the information in
> the right way. Digital freedom activists are to be considered as well.
> NGOs involved in the promotion of technology for social impact are good
> candidates.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Ish Sookun
> 
> I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu.

Kris Seeburn
seebur...@gmail.com
www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ 




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Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Tutu Ngcaba]

My dear sister Evelyn

Yes the civil society is also very important. The Afrinic should also
consider them.


Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa


On 13 Apr 2017 7:02 p.m., "Evelyn Namara"  wrote:

> +1 to the Regulatory authorities as well as Ministers of ICT
> You should also mix it up with very strong civil society Organisations
> that have spoken out on Internet Shutdowns widely. AccessNow, CIPESA etc
> come to mind.
>
> Regards,
>
> Evelyn.
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Tutu Ngcaba 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear CEO of the Afrinic,
>>
>> The regulatory authorities of our various African countries and some
>> other political officials and business officials who are investors in the
>> internet economy of Africa.
>>
>> CEO and CIO of major Internet companies in our motherland.
>>
>> All this will also open discussion beyond just Internet shutdowns to
>> governance and accountability.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Tutu Ngcaba
>> Kwazulu Techno Hubs
>> South Africa
>>
>>
>> On 13 Apr 2017 5:34 p.m., "Alan Barrett" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the
>>> forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017.
>>>
>>> I’d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers.
>>>
>>> Alan Barrett
>>> CEO, AFRINIC
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Evelyn Namara | T: +256 754 440893 <+256%20754%20440893> | E:
> enam...@riseup.net | Twitter: @enamara  |
> Skype: enamara
>
> PGP: B94D 3950 38D6 914A E054 D6C5 E82E 0F66 DC01 E30D
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC?

[Tutu Ngcaba]

Dear Brother Folayan

Yes this is the best way as we can not fight our governments. We can only
engage them through all channels available like AFGWG and others.

The Afrinic CEO already promised he shall organise open discussions at the
AIS which is fantastic initial progress on how to go about this issue.

We welcome all the initiatives that shall promote open dialogue and
awareness.

We should also reach out to different ISOC chapters in our countries and
even ISOC day is another avenue to discuss such concerning matters.

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa

On 13 Apr 2017 6:11 p.m., "Sunday Folayan"  wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
> This is a very reasonable proposition, consistent with the principles that
> guide us.
>
> I shall bring it to the attention of the Board, to explore ways that
> AFRINIC through the AfGWG can galvanize our engagement with Governments for
> the common good.
>
> Best.
> Sunday Folayan.
>
> On 13/04/2017 14:30, Noah wrote:
>
> Hi Omo
>
> Yes I would rather AFRINIC engaged all stakeholder including in members
> and setup say a panel of different stakeholders to deliberate this issue in
> a multistakeholder platform.
>
> Which is why i was of the opinion that in the upcoming  AIS meeting, the
> issue be added to the AFRINIC agenda.
>
> This is a much better approach for such a non-technical issue. Because
> even when we carefully examine the motive behind internet shutdowns and
> censorship, its so complicated for a mere policy to even offer a lasting
> solution and different government have had different reasons for taking
> such measures.
>
> So AFRINIC engaging the community at large and governments through AFGWG
> we can find solutions and Seun also shared some practical ideas
>
> Noah
>
> On 13 Apr 2017 2:17 p.m., "Omo Oaiya"  wrote:
>
>> +1.  A practical approach that could yield good results.  Last thing we
>> want Afrinic to do is to complicate the situation with empty rhetoric and
>> make an already bad situation worse.
>>
>> Omo
>>
>> On 13 Apr 2017, at 12:11, Noah  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Seun,
>>
>> Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your
>> centiments, i  am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref:
>> internet shutdowns and censorship.
>>
>> I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the
>> AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the
>> same.
>>
>> Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where
>> all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent
>> issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way
>> better.
>>
>> AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other
>> internet leaders to this kind of BoF.
>>
>> I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the
>> wider community.
>>
>> Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been
>> disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this
>> issue.
>>
>> Noah
>>
>>
>> On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji"  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Dear Community,
>>
>> Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let
>> this discussion live on.
>>
>> AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government
>> and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt
>> participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive
>> down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of
>> internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff
>> how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to
>> identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them.
>>
>> One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active
>> instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue
>> strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant
>> authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the
>> relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS,
>> EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of
>> communication to the respective governments.
>>
>> That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to
>> me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution
>> structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of
>> dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that
>> as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown
>> of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity
>> still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also
>> make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope
>> that the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Tutu Ngcaba]

Dear CEO of the Afrinic,

The regulatory authorities of our various African countries and some other
political officials and business officials who are investors in the
internet economy of Africa.

CEO and CIO of major Internet companies in our motherland.

All this will also open discussion beyond just Internet shutdowns to
governance and accountability.

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa


On 13 Apr 2017 5:34 p.m., "Alan Barrett"  wrote:

> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the
> forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017.
>
> I’d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers.
>
> Alan Barrett
> CEO, AFRINIC
>
>
> ___
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> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC

[Sunday Folayan]

Dear Arnaud and all,

The Board will make some clarifications shortly.

Thanks and Regards ...

Sunday Folayan.
Board Chair.


On 13/04/2017 13:26, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:

*English :*

Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the 
initiators of this Article ???


Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been 
adopted externally, still coming from a member of the Board of 
Afrinic, is unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, 
that the different leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to 
the order the indelices


The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the 
subject in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC 
or the BOARD.



*French :*
Chers membre de la communauté, Quel est le but visé par les auteurs et 
les initiateurs de cet Article ??? 
Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopté à 
l'extérieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic 
c'est innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite à AFRINIC, que les 
différents responsables prennent leurs respponsabilités et rappellent 
à l'odre les indélicats.


Le nom d'AFRINIC a été engagé dans cet article alors même que le sujet 
en question ne soit ratifié par la communauté d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD.




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  No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access


Afrinic considers punitive policy for errant governments

reddit
 


Twitter
 


Facebook
linkedin
 

12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy 



Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find 
themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by 
one of the five global IP allocation organizations.


The suggested clampdown 
 
will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in 
Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP 
address blocks across Africa.


Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official 
rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new 
IP address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered 
an internet shutdown.


The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have 
a "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also 
cover any transfer of address space to those entities from others.


That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to 
pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of 
a government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 
years – all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked 
and no allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years."


The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of 
complete nationwide shutdowns of internet service – something that has 
been a cause of increasing concern and ire within the internet 
infrastructure community.



  The start

The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when 
authorities killed the entire's country web access 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Badru Ntege]

Andrew 

On 4/13/17, 5:35 PM, "Andrew Alston"  wrote:


That being said – at the request of other media organisations – the authors 
have chosen to give their perspectives.  So far one such article has actually 
been published and can be found here:

 

https://qz.com/957821/a-proposal-to-africas-internet-registry-afrinic-aims-to-deny-governments-ip-addresses-for-shutting-down-the-internet/

 


Not sure about the correctness when it comes to how the RIR  PDP process should 
be working but also what a sitting board member can and cannot do. (baring in 
mind the board menber is a community member first.)

Can we get a guidance position on this from either GC or CEO.

Regards

 Badru




Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com] 
Sent: 13 April 2017 17:21
To: Arsène Tungali ; Bope Domilongo Christian 

Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; rpd 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown 
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

 

Arsene

 

The community should be wary not to be played.

 

 

On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Arsène Tungali"  wrote:

Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no 
African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the 
ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is 
not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is 
working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community 
members (even if authors were mentioned as well).

Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that 
published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. 
??

 

And again this is the same media house that has historically published 
information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is 
involved…..just saying

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African 
governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they 
dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some 
governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be 
altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). 

This surely is something for the governance committee to look into.  

 

A touch of “Tilapia” arround this whole policy proposal.  

 

 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Barry Macharia]

+++1

> On 13 Apr 2017, at 17:53, Kris Seeburn  wrote:
> 
> May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as 
> well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as 
> important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them on 
> board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors to the 
> minister of ICT.  Just thought as they are key to anything that happens.
> 
>> On Apr 13, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Barry Macharia > > wrote:
>> 
>>  Director generals of  communication Authorities in Africa 
>> 
>> barry 
>> 
>>> On 13 Apr 2017, at 17:33, Alan Barrett >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the 
>>> forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017.
>>> 
>>> I’d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers.
>>> 
>>> Alan Barrett
>>> CEO, AFRINIC
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net 
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net 
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 
> Kris Seeburn
> seebur...@gmail.com 
> www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Kris Seeburn]

May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as well. 
The director generals also act on instructions but both are as important in 
such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them on board and listen 
in and participate or at least the senior advisors to the minister of ICT.  
Just thought as they are key to anything that happens.

> On Apr 13, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Barry Macharia  wrote:
> 
>  Director generals of  communication Authorities in Africa 
> 
> barry 
> 
>> On 13 Apr 2017, at 17:33, Alan Barrett  wrote:
>> 
>> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the 
>> forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017.
>> 
>> I’d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers.
>> 
>> Alan Barrett
>> CEO, AFRINIC
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 
> 
> ___
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Kris Seeburn
seebur...@gmail.com
www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ 




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Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Barry Macharia]

  Director generals of  communication Authorities in Africa 

barry 

> On 13 Apr 2017, at 17:33, Alan Barrett  wrote:
> 
> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the 
> forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017.
> 
> I’d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers.
> 
> Alan Barrett
> CEO, AFRINIC
> 
> 
> ___
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> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss


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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Andrew Alston]

Just for the sake of clarity.

The authors had no contact with theregister before that article went live – and 
we note certain factual inaccuracies in what was published and will reach out 
to get them corrected.

That being said – at the request of other media organisations – the authors 
have chosen to give their perspectives.  So far one such article has actually 
been published and can be found here:

https://qz.com/957821/a-proposal-to-africas-internet-registry-afrinic-aims-to-deny-governments-ip-addresses-for-shutting-down-the-internet/

Thanks

Andrew


From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com]
Sent: 13 April 2017 17:21
To: Arsène Tungali ; Bope Domilongo Christian 

Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; rpd 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown 
(AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

Arsene

The community should be wary not to be played.


On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Arsène Tungali" 
> wrote:
Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK 
mainstream media, while no African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are 
they even aware of the ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they 
put it. Anyone who is not familiar with this process will think it is something 
the AFRINIC Board is working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by 
three community members (even if authors were mentioned as well).
Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that 
published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. 
??

And again this is the same media house that has historically published 
information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is 
involved…..just saying




In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African 
governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they 
dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some 
governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be 
altered (as many people have pointed out on this list).
This surely is something for the governance committee to look into.

A touch of “Tilapia” arround this whole policy proposal.


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[Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017

[Alan Barrett]

I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the 
forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017.

I’d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers.

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Badru Ntege]

Arsene

The community should be wary not to be played.


On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Arsène Tungali"  wrote:
Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no 
African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the 
ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is 
not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is 
working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community 
members (even if authors were mentioned as well).

Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that 
published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. 
??

And again this is the same media house that has historically published 
information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is 
involved…..just saying





In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African 
governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they 
dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some 
governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be 
altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). 

This surely is something for the governance committee to look into.  
 
A touch of “Tilapia” arround this whole policy proposal.  



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Re: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC?

[Christian Bope]

Here my draft

Dear all,

I have been following this policy discussion passionately.

I do understand the need of keeping Internet up all the time knowing it's
importance for economies, educations, developpement and other.

We should engage countries using different channels such AFGWG, AU and
other multistakeholder in our community.

What this policy is trying to solve is not in AfriNIC mandate or might
serve personal interest and other interest groups not even the people's or
Community at large.

I recall during AfriNIC meeting in Mauritius last December 2016, the same
group of people claim that the Audit Policy put the organizational at  Risk
because it will revoke ressouces if Members dit not complied. Today theu
want AfriNIC to revoke ressouces.  What will the anti - shutdown  do to the
organization?

To be honest this is not solving anything instead is putting AfriNIC at
high risk and need to be withdrawn.

On 13 Apr 2017 6:19 a.m., "Omo Oaiya"  wrote:

> +1.  A practical approach that could yield good results.  Last thing we
> want Afrinic to do is to complicate the situation with empty rhetoric and
> make an already bad situation worse.
>
> Omo
>
> On 13 Apr 2017, at 12:11, Noah  wrote:
>
> Hi Seun,
>
> Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your
> centiments, i  am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref:
> internet shutdowns and censorship.
>
> I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the
> AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the
> same.
>
> Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where
> all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent
> issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way
> better.
>
> AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other
> internet leaders to this kind of BoF.
>
> I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the
> wider community.
>
> Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been
> disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this
> issue.
>
> Noah
>
>
> On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji"  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Dear Community,
>
> Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let
> this discussion live on.
>
> AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government
> and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt
> participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive
> down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of
> internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff
> how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to
> identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them.
>
> One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active
> instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue
> strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant
> authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the
> relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS,
> EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of
> communication to the respective governments.
>
> That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to
> me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution
> structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of
> dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that
> as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown
> of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity
> still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also
> make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope
> that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get
> government to change their order.
>
> Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an
> understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address
> this very important issue.
>
> Regards
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear the Afrinic Ltd,
>>
>> Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown
>> problem which is a serious issue.
>>
>> Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the
>> Afrinic shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to
>> come.
>>
>> We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries.
>>
>> We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community
>> mailing list and engage all members but not through policy.
>>
>> This will make the statement the Afrinic 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)"

[Bope Domilongo Christian]

Dear all,

I have been following this policy discussion passionately.

I do understand the need of keeping Internet up all the time knowing it's
importance for economies, educations, developpement and other.

We should engage countries using different channels such AFGWG, AU and
other multistakeholder in our community.

What this policy is trying to solve is not in AfriNIC mandate or might
potentially serve personal interest and other interest groups not even the
people's or Community at large.

I recall during AfriNIC meeting in Mauritius last December 2016, the same
group of people claim that the Audit Policy put the organizational at  Risk
because it will revoke ressouces if Members dit not complied. Today theu
want AfriNIC to revoke ressouces.  What will the anti - shutdown  do to the
organization?

To be honest this policy  is not solving anything instead is putting
AfriNIC at high risk and need to be withdrawn.

On 13 Apr 2017 6:48 a.m., "Tutu Ngcaba"  wrote:


On 13 Apr 2017 12:32 p.m., "Andrew Alston" 
wrote:

Interestingly enough – this policy has already served as a catalyst for
global discussion – and continues to do so.



It has appeared all over twitter, it appeared on theregister.co.uk, it has
appeared in discussion

I read and this is sad.

In that fake article like Donald Trump would say, it states that:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/12/no_ip_addresses_for_countries/

"Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find
themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of
the five global IP allocation organizations."

The fake article continues with another lie about the Afrinic meeting in
Botwana in June as below.

"The suggested clampdown

will
be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in Botswana
in June: "

This Writter Mccarthy must have been paid to promote this nonsense about
the Afrinic and our region and to make it worse its on foreign media.

What kind of image such article will have on the Afrinic.

Did the Arthors have anything to do with this.?

Can the Afrinic condemn this kind of article written to disgress it even if
the Afrinic condemns internet shuts.

Best Regards,

Tutu Ngcaba
Kwazulu Techno Hubs
South Africa

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Re: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC?

[Noah]

Hi Seun,

Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your
centiments, i  am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref:
internet shutdowns and censorship.

I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the
AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the
same.

Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where
all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent
issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way
better.

AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other
internet leaders to this kind of BoF.

I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the
wider community.

Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been
disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this
issue.

Noah


On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji"  wrote:



Dear Community,

Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let
this discussion live on.

AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government
and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt
participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive
down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of
internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff
how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to
identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them.

One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active
instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue
strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant
authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the
relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS,
EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of
communication to the respective governments.

That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to
me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution
structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of
dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that
as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown
of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity
still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also
make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope
that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get
government to change their order.

Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an
understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address
this very important issue.

Regards
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba  wrote:

> Dear the Afrinic Ltd,
>
> Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown
> problem which is a serious issue.
>
> Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the Afrinic
> shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to come.
>
> We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries.
>
> We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community
> mailing list and engage all members but not through policy.
>
> This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the
> main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG.
>
> Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our governements.
>
> So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann
> mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people.
>
> This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser
> ways of engaging our governments.
>
> Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So
> internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly
> since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some
> do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots.
>
> Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so
> many years and the government can do anything.
>
> So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important.
>
> Awareness and education is more important not policy.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tutu Ngcaba
> Kwazulu Techno Hubs
> South Africa
>
>
> ___
> RPD mailing list
> r...@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>
>


-- 






*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:  http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
 Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:

[Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC?

[Seun Ojedeji]

Dear Community,

Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let
this discussion live on.

AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government
and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt
participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive
down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of
internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff
how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to
identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them.

One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active
instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue
strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant
authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the
relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS,
EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of
communication to the respective governments.

That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to
me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution
structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of
dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that
as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown
of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity
still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also
make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope
that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get
government to change their order.

Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an
understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address
this very important issue.

Regards
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba  wrote:

> Dear the Afrinic Ltd,
>
> Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown
> problem which is a serious issue.
>
> Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the Afrinic
> shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to come.
>
> We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries.
>
> We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community
> mailing list and engage all members but not through policy.
>
> This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the
> main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG.
>
> Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our governements.
>
> So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann
> mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people.
>
> This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser
> ways of engaging our governments.
>
> Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So
> internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly
> since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some
> do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots.
>
> Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so
> many years and the government can do anything.
>
> So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important.
>
> Awareness and education is more important not policy.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tutu Ngcaba
> Kwazulu Techno Hubs
> South Africa
>
>
> ___
> RPD mailing list
> r...@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>
>


-- 






*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:  http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
 Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
seun.ojed...@fuoye.edu.ng
*

Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
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