Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

2017-09-06 Thread Andrew Alston 
While unfortunately you’ve responded to an English speaker in French – and as a 
result I’ve had to switch to google translate to translate what you said – let 
me respond based on my understanding.

Firstly, the stats are from a variety of sources – and I have said there are 90 
million French speakers in Africa – not 30 million – and that is still less 
than the Swahili speakers or the Arabic speakers.

Secondly, the moderator told you there was no French translation or zulu 
translation – I see NOTHING wrong with what he said in that – it is objective 
fact.

Official estimates (and you’re free to do what I did, google, I’m not going to 
go and dig out what you’re quite capable of finding yourself), show that in 
Africa French is the 4th most spoken language – it is the 18th most spoken 
language world wide – and you have not answered me – who will pay for this 
supposed translation?

The world does not revolve around one language group – and what must be done 
for one language must be done equally for the rest of the languages that 
comprise similar number of speakers (or in some cases far more speakers).  
There is nothing “special” about the language you speak that entitles it to 
special treatment above others.   I don’t see the Russians complaining that 
there isn’t Russian translation of everything at RIPE.  I’ve never seen a tech 
conference where things are translated into Hindi within the RIR system or the 
global tech system – Or Bengali for that matter.  All three of those languages 
are vastly larger than French on a global scale.

Anyway – while this has been an amusing debate – I don’t think I’ve got much 
more to say on this – because I actually have real things to do ☺

Andrew


From: Kangamutima zabika Christophe 
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2017 at 12:05
To: Andrew Alston , 
"community-discuss@afrinic.net" 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- 
Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

D'abord quand on cite des chiffres en public il faut préciser la source. En 
plus, lorsque vous organisez un forum et que vous le diffusez sur internet vous 
élargissez votre auditoire. En plus, il fallait d'abord lire toute la 
conversation, comprendre l'esprit et la lettre des propos de mon interlocuteur 
pour discerner l'aspect discriminatoire des paroles de mon interlocuteur. Il 
faut dire les choses comme elles sont ce n'était rien d'autres de l'arrogance 
même s'il a tenté de rebiffer par la suite. Quant aux statistiques 
fantaististes produites je n'y crois pas d'abord parceque dans la plupart de 
nos pays il y a pas de recensement fiables ou d'études profondes à ce sujet. 
Nous en RDC, à ce jour on recense 30.000.000 d'électeurs (majeurs) parlant 
français (sans oublier les autres 30.000.000 des mineurs parlant aussi 
français), vous ne me direz pas que les autres pays francophones ne regroupent 
que 30.000.000 des francophones.

Je n'en démore pas ces propos étaient bel bien discriminatoires, c'est dommage 
qu'il nyait pas de zulu inscrit à ce forum pour réagir et défendre leurs 
intérêts.
___
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

2017-09-06 Thread Kangamutima zabika Christophe 
Dear All,

While writing on SAFNOG's livestream chat that the presentations are not 
translated into French, the moderator arrogantly replies that they are not 
translated into Zulu as well.

Here's the whole conversation:

> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> no french presentation
>
> Internet Society
> afraid not. no zulu either.
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> In Africa, there are more speakers in French than in Zulu
>
> Internet Society
>
> But in SA?
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> You could have provided French subtitling for those who will watch the video
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> Quand vous diffusez en ligne c'est le monde entier en particulier l'afrique 
> entière qui visionne cette conférence
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> When you broadcast online it is the whole world especially the whole of 
> Africa who views this conference.
>
> 04.09.2017, 13:00, "community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net" 
> :
>>  Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>>  community-discuss@afrinic.net
>>
>>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>  https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>  community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net
>>
>>  You can reach the person managing the list at
>>  community-discuss-ow...@afrinic.net
>>
>>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>  than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>>
>>  Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Mark Tinka)
>> 2. Re: SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Patrick Lufundisu)
>> 3. Register for the session on Overcoming Hurdles to IPv6
>>    Deployment in Southern Africa at iWeek 2017, in Durban, Sout?
>>    (Amreesh Phokeer)
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 1
>>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:08:20 +0200
>>  From: Mark Tinka 
>>  To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
>>  Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
>>  Message-ID: 
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>  Hello all.
>>
>>  A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
>>  inspection here:
>>
>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
>>
>>  This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
>>  any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG meeting.
>>
>>  Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
>>  available here:
>>
>>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
>>
>>  With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
>>
>>  Cheers,
>>
>>  Mark Tinka
>>  On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 2
>>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:24:15 +0100
>>  From: Patrick Lufundisu 
>>  To: Mark Tinka 
>>  Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
>>  Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
>>  Message-ID: <06b9ab86-0890-4fdb-bb9c-d0d0d7f68...@gmail.com>
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>  Thx Mark
>>
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>   On 3 Sep 2017, at 14:08, Mark Tinka  wrote:
>>>
>>>   Hello all.
>>>
>>>   A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
>>>   inspection here:
>>>
>>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
>>>
>>>   This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
>>>   any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG meeting.
>>>
>>>   Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
>>>   available here:
>>>
>>>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
>>>
>>>   With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
>>>
>>>   Cheers,
>>>
>>>   Mark Tinka
>>>   On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
>>>
>>>   ___
>>>   Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>   Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
>>>   https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 3
>>  Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 11:57:24 +0200
>>  From: Amreesh Phokeer 
>>  To: community-discuss@afrinic.net, rpd , IPv6 in
>>  Africa Discussions 
>>  Subject: [Community-Discuss] Register for the session on Overcoming
>>  Hurdles to IPv6 Deployment in Southern Africa at iWeek 2017, in
>>  Durban, Sout?
>>  Message-ID: 
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>  Dear Colleagues,
>>
>>  We are pleased to invite you to register for the session on Overcoming 
>> Hurdles to IPv6

Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

2017-09-06 Thread Patrick Lufundisu 
Hello All,

@Christophe : je pense que le mail d'Andrew Alson explique tout.


On 6 September 2017 at 08:37, Kangamutima zabika Christophe <
funga.r...@yandex.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> While writing on SAFNOG's livestream chat that the presentations are not
> translated into French, the moderator arrogantly replies that they are not
> translated into Zulu as well.
>
> Here's the whole conversation:
>
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> > no french presentation
> >
> > Internet Society
> > afraid not. no zulu either.
> >
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> > In Africa, there are more speakers in French than in Zulu
> >
> > Internet Society
> >
> > But in SA?
> >
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> >
> > You could have provided French subtitling for those who will watch the
> video
> >
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> >
> > Quand vous diffusez en ligne c'est le monde entier en particulier
> l'afrique entière qui visionne cette conférence
> >
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> >
> > When you broadcast online it is the whole world especially the whole of
> Africa who views this conference.
> >
> > 04.09.2017, 13:00, "community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net" <
> community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net>:
> >>  Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
> >>  community-discuss@afrinic.net
> >>
> >>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>  https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>  community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net
> >>
> >>  You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>  community-discuss-ow...@afrinic.net
> >>
> >>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >>  than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
> >>
> >>  Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Mark Tinka)
> >> 2. Re: SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Patrick Lufundisu)
> >> 3. Register for the session on Overcoming Hurdles to IPv6
> >>Deployment in Southern Africa at iWeek 2017, in Durban, Sout?
> >>(Amreesh Phokeer)
> >>
> >>  --
> >>
> >>  Message: 1
> >>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:08:20 +0200
> >>  From: Mark Tinka 
> >>  To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> >>  Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
> >>  Message-ID: 
> >>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >>  Hello all.
> >>
> >>  A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
> >>  inspection here:
> >>
> >>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
> >>
> >>  This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
> >>  any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG meeting.
> >>
> >>  Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
> >>  available here:
> >>
> >>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
> >>
> >>  With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
> >>
> >>  Cheers,
> >>
> >>  Mark Tinka
> >>  On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
> >>
> >>  --
> >>
> >>  Message: 2
> >>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:24:15 +0100
> >>  From: Patrick Lufundisu 
> >>  To: Mark Tinka 
> >>  Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> >>  Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
> >>  Message-ID: <06b9ab86-0890-4fdb-bb9c-d0d0d7f68...@gmail.com>
> >>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >>  Thx Mark
> >>
> >>  Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>>   On 3 Sep 2017, at 14:08, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   Hello all.
> >>>
> >>>   A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
> >>>   inspection here:
> >>>
> >>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
> >>>
> >>>   This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
> >>>   any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG
> meeting.
> >>>
> >>>   Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
> >>>   available here:
> >>>
> >>>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
> >>>
> >>>   With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
> >>>
> >>>   Cheers,
> >>>
> >>>   Mark Tinka
> >>>   On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
> >>>
> >>>   ___
> >>>   Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>>   Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> >>>   https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>  --
> >>
> >>  Message: 3
> >>  Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 11:57:24 +0200
> >>  From: Amreesh Phokeer 
> >>  To: community-discuss@afrinic.net, rpd , IPv6 in
> >>  Africa

Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

2017-09-06 Thread Andrew Alston 
Quite frankly,

SAFNOG is the Southern African Network Operators Group – its an English 
speaking area.

Translation costs money – you do translation for your targeted audience – who 
is meant to be pay for it?  And if there is translation to French – surely 
since its Southern African focused – the target SHOULD be the local languages 
first – in which case who is going to pay to translate it to:

Southern Sotho
Tsonga
Afrikaans
Tswana
Swati
Zulu
Northern Sotho
Ndebele
Xhosa
Venda

And then – we move into the rest of Southern Africa…

So we have to add
Tonga
Shona
Chewa
Tswana
Portuguese

And right there – I’ve only included the OFFICIAL languages for the southern 
African region (and I may well have missed a few) – what makes you think that a 
language that is not spoken in the region must get priority over the languages 
that are official in the targeted area?

Andrew



From: Kangamutima zabika Christophe 
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2017 at 09:37
To: "community-discuss@afrinic.net" 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- 
Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

Dear All,

While writing on SAFNOG's livestream chat that the presentations are not 
translated into French, the moderator arrogantly replies that they are not 
translated into Zulu as well.

Here's the whole conversation:

> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> no french presentation
>
> Internet Society
> afraid not. no zulu either.
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> In Africa, there are more speakers in French than in Zulu
>
> Internet Society
>
> But in SA?
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> You could have provided French subtitling for those who will watch the video
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> Quand vous diffusez en ligne c'est le monde entier en particulier l'afrique 
> entière qui visionne cette conférence
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> When you broadcast online it is the whole world especially the whole of 
> Africa who views this conference.
>
> 04.09.2017, 13:00, "community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net" 
> :
>>  Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>>  community-discuss@afrinic.net
>>
>>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>  
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>  community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net
>>
>>  You can reach the person managing the list at
>>  community-discuss-ow...@afrinic.net
>>
>>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>  than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>>
>>  Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Mark Tinka)
>> 2. Re: SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Patrick Lufundisu)
>> 3. Register for the session on Overcoming Hurdles to IPv6
>>Deployment in Southern Africa at iWeek 2017, in Durban, Sout?
>>(Amreesh Phokeer)
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 1
>>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:08:20 +0200
>>  From: Mark Tinka 
>>  To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
>>  Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
>>  Message-ID: 
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>  Hello all.
>>
>>  A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
>>  inspection here:
>>
>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
>>
>>  This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
>>  any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG meeting.
>>
>>  Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
>>  available here:
>>
>>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
>>
>>  With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
>>
>>  Cheers,
>>
>>  Mark Tinka
>>  On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 2
>>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:24:15 +0100
>>  From: Patrick Lufundisu 
>>  To: Mark Tinka 
>>  Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
>>  Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
>>  Message-ID: <06b9ab86-0890-4fdb-bb9c-d0d0d7f68...@gmail.com>
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>  Thx Mark
>>
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>   On 3 Sep 2017, at 14:08, Mark Tinka  wrote:
>>>
>>>   Hello all.
>>>
>>>   A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
>>>   inspection here:
>>>
>>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
>>>