Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

[Kangamutima zabika Christophe]

Bwana andrew,miye mina semaka swahili. Mina tumikaka mu swahili, na sala kaka na lingala et toi quelle langue africaine parles tu?07.09.2017, 11:23, "uche kenneth" <kennethworld...@gmail.com>:ADMIN.. get me out of this group.. PLEASE.. 
On Thu, Sep 7, 2017, 11:04 AM Ali Hussein <a...@hussein.me.ke> wrote:Doesn't anyone find it the height of irony that we as Africans are fighting against each other on what foreign language to use? Oh Mother Africa..what have we done to you? English Speakers are up in arms against French Speakers. I'd rather we fight on what African language to use:-Wolof, Zulu, Xhosa, Swahili, Amharic, Yoruba, Igbo anyone? We as Africans need to get very serious. Very fast. The colonization of the mind is far much worse than the colonization of the body.As we famously say in Kiswahili ' Mkosa mila ni mtumwa (loosely translated it means - One who has no roots is a slave of others).Ali HusseinPrincipalHussein & Associates+254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassimSkype: abu-jomoLinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."  ~ AristotleSent from my iPadOn 6 Sep 2017, at 3:25 PM, Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:









My friend – if you wanted to talk AFRICAN Languages in the first step – then you probably should have done that before opening this can of worms.
 
French is not an African language – it is a colonial language – as is English – it was brought here during the days of colonization.  But I do not see anyone here asking for Swahili or
 Xhosa or Zulu or Tsonga or any of the others – yet you dare turn around and say that because I don’t speak other languages I do not have the African spirit in my heart?  I am as African as you will ever be – I was born under these skies – I was bread under
 these skies – and under these skies will I die – do not EVER question my loyalty to this continent or to her combined people because of the amount of melanin in my skin.
 
Racism works both ways my friend – and questioning someones commitment to their continent because they are unable to speak a language or because of the color of their skin – is what that
 amounts to.
 
How dare you
 
Andrew

 

From: 
Kangamutima zabika Christophe <funga.r...@yandex.com>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2017 at 14:00
To: Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>, "community-discuss@afrinic.net" <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG


 


Rassurez-vous mon cher il ne s'agissait que d'une conversation instantanée avec un modérateur d'ISOC inutile d'en faire un plat. En plus si vous pensez être doué en technique
 ou informatique cela ne veut pas dire qu'en statistiques linguistiques vous l'êtes aussi parceque vous savez tapez des mot-clés sur les moteurs de recherche en ligne.


 


Malheureusement, beaucoup de gens pensant comme vous vivent dans des bulles croyant que le monde ressemble à ce qu'il voit ou pense c'est ce que les collègues de Steve jobs
 ont qualifié de DISTORSION DE LA REALITE . Qu'à cela ne tienne, les sujets débattus au SAFNOG étaient intéressants mais une franche de l'auditoire francophone, lusophone ou même arabophone (ou même zuluphone, etc.) n'aura pas eu l'occasion de suivre ou de
 bien s'imprégner de ces riches interventions mais comme vraisemblablement on me fait comprendre que les organisateurs de cet événement n'ont que faire de ces internautes là nous nous en tiendrons à cela.


 


A Nairobi, lors de l'AFNOG Andrew avait affirmé (à la recherche du vote pluriel) qu'il avait le coeur africain parcequ'il s'est marié à une kenyane etc. Mais ce n'est pas
 suffisant, le coeur africain reflète d'abord la culture africaine c'est-à-dire les langues africaines, l'art africain, les us et coutumes africaines, les valeurs africaines et tout cela peut parfaitement s'appliquer au monde des technologies.


 




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Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

[Andrew Alston]

The answer was – and I quote – there is no French translation – no zulu either.

I see no problem with that

Andrew


On 07/09/2017, 13:57, "Jackson Muthili"  wrote:

2017-09-07 14:43 GMT+03:00 Andrew Alston :

< text trimmed >

> Quite frankly, I dont care what language you speak - but I find it bizarre
> that we're fighting over the fact that there is no translation to a 
language
> that is not spoken in the area that the conference targeted.

This goes back to the basic matter of mutual respect. My observation
was that he asked a simple question "Do you have French translation"
and the answer was some arrogance about the insignificance of French.

Had the answer been a simple "Thank you for asking. We do not have
French translation at this time" , this useless email fiasco would
never have happened.

Back to the basics. Let us treat each other with kindness and respect.



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

[Jackson Muthili]

2017-09-07 14:43 GMT+03:00 Andrew Alston :

< text trimmed >

> Quite frankly, I dont care what language you speak - but I find it bizarre
> that we're fighting over the fact that there is no translation to a language
> that is not spoken in the area that the conference targeted.

This goes back to the basic matter of mutual respect. My observation
was that he asked a simple question "Do you have French translation"
and the answer was some arrogance about the insignificance of French.

Had the answer been a simple "Thank you for asking. We do not have
French translation at this time" , this useless email fiasco would
never have happened.

Back to the basics. Let us treat each other with kindness and respect.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

[Andrew Alston]

While unfortunately you’ve responded to an English speaker in French – and as a 
result I’ve had to switch to google translate to translate what you said – let 
me respond based on my understanding.

Firstly, the stats are from a variety of sources – and I have said there are 90 
million French speakers in Africa – not 30 million – and that is still less 
than the Swahili speakers or the Arabic speakers.

Secondly, the moderator told you there was no French translation or zulu 
translation – I see NOTHING wrong with what he said in that – it is objective 
fact.

Official estimates (and you’re free to do what I did, google, I’m not going to 
go and dig out what you’re quite capable of finding yourself), show that in 
Africa French is the 4th most spoken language – it is the 18th most spoken 
language world wide – and you have not answered me – who will pay for this 
supposed translation?

The world does not revolve around one language group – and what must be done 
for one language must be done equally for the rest of the languages that 
comprise similar number of speakers (or in some cases far more speakers).  
There is nothing “special” about the language you speak that entitles it to 
special treatment above others.   I don’t see the Russians complaining that 
there isn’t Russian translation of everything at RIPE.  I’ve never seen a tech 
conference where things are translated into Hindi within the RIR system or the 
global tech system – Or Bengali for that matter.  All three of those languages 
are vastly larger than French on a global scale.

Anyway – while this has been an amusing debate – I don’t think I’ve got much 
more to say on this – because I actually have real things to do ☺

Andrew


From: Kangamutima zabika Christophe <funga.r...@yandex.com>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2017 at 12:05
To: Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>, 
"community-discuss@afrinic.net" <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- 
Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

D'abord quand on cite des chiffres en public il faut préciser la source. En 
plus, lorsque vous organisez un forum et que vous le diffusez sur internet vous 
élargissez votre auditoire. En plus, il fallait d'abord lire toute la 
conversation, comprendre l'esprit et la lettre des propos de mon interlocuteur 
pour discerner l'aspect discriminatoire des paroles de mon interlocuteur. Il 
faut dire les choses comme elles sont ce n'était rien d'autres de l'arrogance 
même s'il a tenté de rebiffer par la suite. Quant aux statistiques 
fantaististes produites je n'y crois pas d'abord parceque dans la plupart de 
nos pays il y a pas de recensement fiables ou d'études profondes à ce sujet. 
Nous en RDC, à ce jour on recense 30.000.000 d'électeurs (majeurs) parlant 
français (sans oublier les autres 30.000.000 des mineurs parlant aussi 
français), vous ne me direz pas que les autres pays francophones ne regroupent 
que 30.000.000 des francophones.

Je n'en démore pas ces propos étaient bel bien discriminatoires, c'est dommage 
qu'il nyait pas de zulu inscrit à ce forum pour réagir et défendre leurs 
intérêts.
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

[Kangamutima zabika Christophe]

Dear All,

While writing on SAFNOG's livestream chat that the presentations are not 
translated into French, the moderator arrogantly replies that they are not 
translated into Zulu as well.

Here's the whole conversation:

> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> no french presentation
>
> Internet Society
> afraid not. no zulu either.
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> In Africa, there are more speakers in French than in Zulu
>
> Internet Society
>
> But in SA?
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> You could have provided French subtitling for those who will watch the video
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> Quand vous diffusez en ligne c'est le monde entier en particulier l'afrique 
> entière qui visionne cette conférence
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> When you broadcast online it is the whole world especially the whole of 
> Africa who views this conference.
>
> 04.09.2017, 13:00, "community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net" 
> :
>>  Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>>  community-discuss@afrinic.net
>>
>>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>  https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>  community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net
>>
>>  You can reach the person managing the list at
>>  community-discuss-ow...@afrinic.net
>>
>>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>  than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>>
>>  Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Mark Tinka)
>> 2. Re: SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Patrick Lufundisu)
>> 3. Register for the session on Overcoming Hurdles to IPv6
>>    Deployment in Southern Africa at iWeek 2017, in Durban, Sout?
>>    (Amreesh Phokeer)
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 1
>>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:08:20 +0200
>>  From: Mark Tinka 
>>  To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
>>  Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
>>  Message-ID: 
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>  Hello all.
>>
>>  A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
>>  inspection here:
>>
>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
>>
>>  This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
>>  any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG meeting.
>>
>>  Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
>>  available here:
>>
>>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
>>
>>  With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
>>
>>  Cheers,
>>
>>  Mark Tinka
>>  On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 2
>>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:24:15 +0100
>>  From: Patrick Lufundisu 
>>  To: Mark Tinka 
>>  Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
>>  Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
>>  Message-ID: <06b9ab86-0890-4fdb-bb9c-d0d0d7f68...@gmail.com>
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>  Thx Mark
>>
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>   On 3 Sep 2017, at 14:08, Mark Tinka  wrote:
>>>
>>>   Hello all.
>>>
>>>   A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
>>>   inspection here:
>>>
>>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
>>>
>>>   This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
>>>   any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG meeting.
>>>
>>>   Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
>>>   available here:
>>>
>>>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
>>>
>>>   With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
>>>
>>>   Cheers,
>>>
>>>   Mark Tinka
>>>   On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
>>>
>>>   ___
>>>   Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>   Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
>>>   https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 3
>>  Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 11:57:24 +0200
>>  From: Amreesh Phokeer 
>>  To: community-discuss@afrinic.net, rpd , IPv6 in
>>  Africa Discussions 
>>  Subject: [Community-Discuss] Register for the session on Overcoming
>>  Hurdles to IPv6 Deployment in Southern Africa at iWeek 2017, in
>>  Durban, Sout?
>>  Message-ID: 
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>  Dear Colleagues,
>>
>>  We are pleased to invite you to register for the session on Overcoming 
>> Hurdles to IPv6 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

[Patrick Lufundisu]

Hello All,

@Christophe : je pense que le mail d'Andrew Alson explique tout.


On 6 September 2017 at 08:37, Kangamutima zabika Christophe <
funga.r...@yandex.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> While writing on SAFNOG's livestream chat that the presentations are not
> translated into French, the moderator arrogantly replies that they are not
> translated into Zulu as well.
>
> Here's the whole conversation:
>
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> > no french presentation
> >
> > Internet Society
> > afraid not. no zulu either.
> >
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> > In Africa, there are more speakers in French than in Zulu
> >
> > Internet Society
> >
> > But in SA?
> >
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> >
> > You could have provided French subtitling for those who will watch the
> video
> >
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> >
> > Quand vous diffusez en ligne c'est le monde entier en particulier
> l'afrique entière qui visionne cette conférence
> >
> > Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> >
> > When you broadcast online it is the whole world especially the whole of
> Africa who views this conference.
> >
> > 04.09.2017, 13:00, "community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net" <
> community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net>:
> >>  Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
> >>  community-discuss@afrinic.net
> >>
> >>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>  https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>  community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net
> >>
> >>  You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>  community-discuss-ow...@afrinic.net
> >>
> >>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >>  than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
> >>
> >>  Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Mark Tinka)
> >> 2. Re: SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Patrick Lufundisu)
> >> 3. Register for the session on Overcoming Hurdles to IPv6
> >>Deployment in Southern Africa at iWeek 2017, in Durban, Sout?
> >>(Amreesh Phokeer)
> >>
> >>  --
> >>
> >>  Message: 1
> >>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:08:20 +0200
> >>  From: Mark Tinka 
> >>  To: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> >>  Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
> >>  Message-ID: 
> >>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >>  Hello all.
> >>
> >>  A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
> >>  inspection here:
> >>
> >>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
> >>
> >>  This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
> >>  any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG meeting.
> >>
> >>  Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
> >>  available here:
> >>
> >>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
> >>
> >>  With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
> >>
> >>  Cheers,
> >>
> >>  Mark Tinka
> >>  On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
> >>
> >>  --
> >>
> >>  Message: 2
> >>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:24:15 +0100
> >>  From: Patrick Lufundisu 
> >>  To: Mark Tinka 
> >>  Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> >>  Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
> >>  Message-ID: <06b9ab86-0890-4fdb-bb9c-d0d0d7f68...@gmail.com>
> >>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >>  Thx Mark
> >>
> >>  Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>>   On 3 Sep 2017, at 14:08, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   Hello all.
> >>>
> >>>   A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
> >>>   inspection here:
> >>>
> >>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/
> >>>
> >>>   This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
> >>>   any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG
> meeting.
> >>>
> >>>   Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
> >>>   available here:
> >>>
> >>>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html
> >>>
> >>>   With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
> >>>
> >>>   Cheers,
> >>>
> >>>   Mark Tinka
> >>>   On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
> >>>
> >>>   ___
> >>>   Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>>   Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> >>>   https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>  --
> >>
> >>  Message: 3
> >>  Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 11:57:24 +0200
> >>  From: Amreesh Phokeer 
> >>  To: community-discuss@afrinic.net, rpd , IPv6 in
> >>  Africa 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

[Andrew Alston]

Quite frankly,

SAFNOG is the Southern African Network Operators Group – its an English 
speaking area.

Translation costs money – you do translation for your targeted audience – who 
is meant to be pay for it?  And if there is translation to French – surely 
since its Southern African focused – the target SHOULD be the local languages 
first – in which case who is going to pay to translate it to:

Southern Sotho
Tsonga
Afrikaans
Tswana
Swati
Zulu
Northern Sotho
Ndebele
Xhosa
Venda

And then – we move into the rest of Southern Africa…

So we have to add
Tonga
Shona
Chewa
Tswana
Portuguese

And right there – I’ve only included the OFFICIAL languages for the southern 
African region (and I may well have missed a few) – what makes you think that a 
language that is not spoken in the region must get priority over the languages 
that are official in the targeted area?

Andrew



From: Kangamutima zabika Christophe <funga.r...@yandex.com>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2017 at 09:37
To: "community-discuss@afrinic.net" <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1- 
Discriminatory remarks on the livestream of SAFNOG

Dear All,

While writing on SAFNOG's livestream chat that the presentations are not 
translated into French, the moderator arrogantly replies that they are not 
translated into Zulu as well.

Here's the whole conversation:

> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> no french presentation
>
> Internet Society
> afraid not. no zulu either.
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> In Africa, there are more speakers in French than in Zulu
>
> Internet Society
>
> But in SA?
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> You could have provided French subtitling for those who will watch the video
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> Quand vous diffusez en ligne c'est le monde entier en particulier l'afrique 
> entière qui visionne cette conférence
>
> Christophe KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> When you broadcast online it is the whole world especially the whole of 
> Africa who views this conference.
>
> 04.09.2017, 13:00, "community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net" 
> <community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net>:
>>  Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>>  community-discuss@afrinic.net
>>
>>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>  
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>  community-discuss-requ...@afrinic.net
>>
>>  You can reach the person managing the list at
>>  community-discuss-ow...@afrinic.net
>>
>>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>  than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>>
>>  Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Mark Tinka)
>> 2. Re: SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers (Patrick Lufundisu)
>> 3. Register for the session on Overcoming Hurdles to IPv6
>>Deployment in Southern Africa at iWeek 2017, in Durban, Sout?
>>(Amreesh Phokeer)
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 1
>>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:08:20 +0200
>>  From: Mark Tinka <mark.ti...@seacom.mu>
>>  To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
>>  Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-3: Attendees & Speakers
>>  Message-ID: <edc77645-f7e3-803c-a58b-548b02c3f...@seacom.mu>
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>  Hello all.
>>
>>  A list of all currently registered attendees is available for your
>>  inspection here:
>>
>>  http://safnog.org/attendees.php/<http://safnog.org/attendees.php/>
>>
>>  This list is updated daily, so do check regularly to see if there are
>>  any personalities you would like to meet at this year's SAFNOG meeting.
>>
>>  Also, details on each of the speakers at this year's meeting are
>>  available here:
>>
>>  http://safnog.org/speakers.html<http://safnog.org/speakers.html>
>>
>>  With just 2 days to go, we look forward to seeing you all in Durban!
>>
>>  Cheers,
>>
>>  Mark Tinka
>>  On Behalf of the SAFNOG Management Committee
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Message: 2
>>  Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 15:24:15 +0100
>>  From: Patrick Lufundisu <patrick...@gmail.com>
>>  To: Mark Tinka <mark.ti...@seacom.mu>
>&g