RE: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Sam Ruby wrote: The ASF has supportted .forward files for e-mail for quite some time. Would the mere act of putting a one line .forward file into your ~/public_html directory with your favorite URL be OK? A bit more work for httpd than your ~name/public_html/community or some such proposal,

RE: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Justin, if you would like to put forward a set of rules, guidelines, and suggest an enforcement mechanism, I would be inclined to endorse it if it would further consensus. It occurs to me that if people want to guide the content of the ASF hosted personal page, there could be a DTD, and the

RE: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
ROUS wrote: uniform education of (new) committers is one of the purposes of the incubator project. documenting these things for all, including existing committers, is as well. As a new committer, I not only appreciate that view, I want to know where to find the info! :-) --- Noel

RE: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
As a new committer, I not only appreciate that view, I want to know where to find the info! :-) keep an eye on incubator.apache.org Will do. Will there be a reference to it from http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html? --- Noel

RE: ASF Member/Committer AUP

2002-12-03 Thread Noel J. Bergman
you might want to include Maven/Jelly in the section on bulding, which currently has only Ant. I've invited Mavenites to contribute, I've not recieved anything. Ask Dion Gillard specifically. He's doing a lot on documenting Maven. Other topics for your list: What is GUMP (just an example,

RE: ASF Member/Committer AUP

2002-12-03 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Andrew, I spoke with Dion last night and he was unaware of your page or request. [Is this list archived yet? Nothing on eyebrowse] reorg is closed down. Community doesn't seem to appear here. But here is the http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html meta mail lists AFAIK. Isn't

RE: HotJava and EOL

2002-12-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Andrew, Around HotJava, the browser application? I suspect relatively little. Around the component? I know several projects that would love to see it resurrected. --- Noel

RE: Wiki Wiki (has been set up)

2002-12-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Andrew, Hallalujah! I have been asking about a Wiki on and off for months, and was told as recently as a week ago that there were security reasons for not yet having one. Kudos for just getting this done! I am not familar with the code of this particular Wiki engine. What would it take to

RE: [ot] domain registrars

2002-12-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
We transfered all of our domains from NSI to BulkRegister, and we have been very happy with BulkRegister, so far. --- Noel

RE: Wiki Wiki (has been set up)

2002-12-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Andrew, There is already some sort of e-mail notification capability built into the Wiki, although there seems to be some question over its usefulness on the UseMod wiki site. But that at least provides us with a starting point. I've downloaded the source code, and will have a look see next

RE: HotJava proposal on the Wiki

2002-12-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Andrew, With respect to the proposal that Sun be approached to turn over HotJava to the ASF, do you have a suitable person at Sun to fulfill your ContactAtSun - We'll need a contact at Sun in order to make this happen role? Is Sun aware of the interest? --- Noel -Original

RE: Wiki RSS

2002-12-31 Thread Noel J. Bergman
My personal suggestion would be to find a way to partition the wiki pages per project and send those diffs to the various project mail lists. But I have no idea on how difficult/feasible that is with the current software. How good a PERL coder are you? [Actually, Danny Angus had mentioned

RE: Wiki RSS

2002-12-31 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I'd much prefer mailing list notifications over RSS feeds. These types of notifications shouldn't be pull. Is there an engine that can pull from RSS on one side, and e-mail on another? [Something to add to the nice-to-have list for James] --- Noel

RE: Wiki RSS

2003-01-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Yeah its still on my radar Noel, but as you say, I have to bond with my kids... If I were you, I know where my priority would be. :-) Happy Holidays. --- Noel

RE: Tapestry incubation

2003-01-05 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I'll bite ... what is Tapestry? --- Noel -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 17:54 To: community@apache.org; Jakarta General List; general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Tapestry incubation no-connotation

RE: ApacheWiki RSS feed moved into apachewiki.cgi

2003-01-05 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I am interested in content quality. I would probably subscribe to the 'wiki-changes' list, since that would push the content under my nose instead of having me actively reading each changed page online. Right, that has been my point about push model communication. But do you really want to

RE: fyi wiki statistics

2003-01-07 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Bah. Use SubWiki, check out the Wiki pages into a working copy, make all your changes, then commit them. Regular commit email sends the full bunch of changes. grin Does this mean that Subversion is coming soon to replace a CVS repository near us? Not that updating a Wiki that way is in the

RE: email notification done...sorta

2003-01-08 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Its too bad we don't have any decent perl programmers. I'm apparently the master PERL programmer here. The rest of you are all talk. I'm getting quite sick of your you're all talk attitude. Chill the hell out. damn. I was joking around. sheesh. That was not at all clear from

RE: email notification done...sorta

2003-01-08 Thread Noel J. Bergman
For those of you who are humor-impaired, or not aware of the Perl Acme meme, the Acme::* line of modules on CPAN are jokes. Aha! :-) I knew there was a joke in there somewhere, but that little tidbit does help to illuminate the punchline. --- Noel

RE: email notification done...sorta

2003-01-08 Thread Noel J. Bergman
19:12 To: community@apache.org Subject: Re: email notification done...sorta Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] I was going to reply that perhaps the choice of usemodwiki was a good one as a turnkey thing, but perhaps not the best choice for the long term due to the lack

RE: email notification done...sorta

2003-01-08 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Justin, I don't particularly care which Wiki we use, so if one has benefits over the other, great. But I would like to see the content migrated from usemodwiki to Subwiki if that's what is going to be used. How viable is it to machine migrate the content? --- Noel

RE: email notification done...sorta

2003-01-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Yup. Python people *and* Subversion people. :) Well *that* much I knew. :-) The association between Collab.Net and the ASF isn't obscured. I keep wondering if some of the tigris.org projects will migrate to the ASF. There appears to be a lot in common, including people. ASF uses (or will

RE: Do vs. Talk (Re: email notification done...sorta)

2003-01-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Jeff, Unless I missed a discussion elsewhere (I'm only on community@ and infrastructure@, as well as project lists), Andy appeared to be complaining about (a) people asking for changes to the Wiki without contributing patches, and (b) the current lack of consensus on how to integrate push-model

RE: Do vs. Talk (Re: email notification done...sorta)

2003-01-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Because wiki's tend to fill with content rapdily, once you use them for a little while you are pretty much locked in. Counterpoint? Personally, I'm getting mileage out of UseModWiki, despite its issues. I wouldn't want to have to move every page in the Wiki, but I could cut paste the

RE: wiki data migration (was: Do vs. Talk)

2003-01-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Greg Stein wrote (technical details omitted): *if* we migrate to SubWiki or some other Wiki, then we can get the data out of UseModWiki. Sounds like your approach follows the truism that in the worst case any open source code that can read its own data can be instrumented to become its own

RE: wiki data migration (was: Do vs. Talk)

2003-01-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
If SubWiki is used any time soon, dumping the history seems reasonable. Finally, my chance to rewrite history ;) ROFLMAO!!! :-D --- Noel

ASF use of Instant Messaging

2003-01-15 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Justin, Sander, and I just chatted on IRC. This reminds me. Many of us recognize the benefits of instant messaging, via whatever method. However, when I first started contributing to James, one of the things that came out from one longer time Community member was a great deal of ...

Wiki Administration

2003-01-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I just did some cleanup on the Wiki (deleted all pages marked for deletion). Is there a need for a wiki@ or wikiadmin@ mailing list, or should admin activity be posted to infrastructure? Or doesn't anyone care? ;-) The flip side of the coin relates to admin requests.

RE: Wiki Administration

2003-01-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
In my book Andy (Oliver, not Clark) is the master of Wiki... Andy gave myself and Ben Hyde admin access. From what Andy is saying, his plan is to give that to anyone (within reason) who asks. I don't particularly have a care, other than that people ought to know that such things as deleting

RE: Weblogs and Obstructionism WAS: Re: weblogs on apache.org

2003-01-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Costin, Consensus or at least a majority :-) I believe he was using the common dictionary definition, not refering to unanimity. [agregating blogs ( or subsets ) from the apache community] is a very different and IMO more important issue. Putting this information togheter and making it

RE: Wiki Administration

2003-01-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
The life of a dyslexic is full of surprises. That should have read This is a bad-thing(tm).. I had figured as much from the earlier part of the paragraph. :-) I assume that as soon as we create per PMC Wiki those PMC would discover that they have pride of craft in the content of that Wiki.

Wiki Benefits

2003-01-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
People can do the same with patches on mailing list; and seem less likely to abuse that. Perhaps the simple validation (and display) of a valid email address may do the trick. You are concerned about abuse. I don't disagree, but the mailing lists are also capable of being abused. I would not

ASF Release Policy?

2003-01-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Is there a uniform release policy for the ASF? For example, here are two documents: http://httpd.apache.org/dev/release.html Technically, any one can make a release of the source code due to the Apache Software License. However, only members of the Apache HTTP Server Project (committers) to

RE: You can at least forward my comments to these secret discussions about wiki

2003-01-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
a friend of the court brief for the Board vs. Wiki. Board vs. Wiki? That's somewhat amusing in its timing, considering that the Chairman of the Board, as a private individual not in an official capacity, (a) is the author of SubWiki, (b) posted a message to community@ in support for Wiki use

RE: Open community (was ... secret discussions ...)

2003-01-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
In the community@ archives you can find the vote on whether this list should be open or closed. WHAT archives? As I have commented on before, eyebrowse has none for community@ (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SummarizeList?listId=108). Are they elsewhere? If so, where? --- Noel

RE: Adding community@ archives was Open community (was ... secret discussions ...)

2003-01-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
We're not really trying to hide anything. What you might be able to attribute to malice, attribute to, umm, absentmindedness. For the record, malice never occured to me as an option. I'd asked about archives previously, without a response. So when the comment was ever so casually made that

RE: Public... (Was: Re: Adding community@ archives was Open community)

2003-01-30 Thread Noel J. Bergman
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED] rg Do you still need to do something to enable searching? Doesn't seem to be available. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional

RE: Wiki - we have a problem :)

2003-01-31 Thread Noel J. Bergman
What I mean here is -not- the ASF cultural thing of having things validated by your peers; but the oversight of the type that the ASF as a US incorperated is supposed to maintain. specificaly of the type which gets us in real-live(tm) trouble; warez, child-porn, list of license keys, etc.

RE: Wiki - we have a problem :)

2003-01-31 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Justin, The wikidiffs@ list received 77 emails yesterday. That's a *lot* of traffic for a small group to handle reliably. I certainly can't keep up with that. Understood. One problem is that changes aren't merged. I probably do a half dozen minor Wiki updates before I finish with an edit.

RE: Student Section on wiki

2003-01-31 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I wonder how this ended up on wikidiffs@ Looks like http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?TheStudentResearchPage was something that Andy started. My guess is that Master Townhill e-mailed wikidiffs because of Andy's comments on http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?WikiAdmin.

RE: Wiki - we've got a proposed solution - hierarchy

2003-02-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Oversight of content relating to a specific PMC should be the repsonsibility of said PMC. That is one view. There may be others. I believe that there is interest in having a consensus on policy first, and then a solution. Not too many people have spoken up one way or another on that issue.

RE: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki

2003-01-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
no idea what nagoya is but Steven has a pretty fat server behind cocoondev According to the machines page, Nagoya is a Sun E4500. I don't have any more clue than that (would be curious to know the actual configuration), but E4500s tend to be pretty powerful beasts. --- Noel

RE: Wiki - we have a problem :)

2003-02-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Costin, I see several differences between mailing list and Wiki content: 1. posting policy If you manage your Wiki with Wiki pages in conversation mode, shouldn't you want similar control over Wiki posting as e-mail posting? 2. representation I do see wiki as a transcript of opinions

RE: Wiki - we've got a proposed solution - hierarchy

2003-02-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Dirk-Willem van Gulik: Noel J. Bergman wrote: The three WikiAdmins are neither official nor representatives of a proper oversight body. The most logical group would be those who are responsible for the site module, and I don't believe that they want it. Well - the PMC's could each

RE: Wiki - we have a problem :)

2003-02-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Now that it appears that a consensus is brewing, I'm finally posting this message in public --- There appears to be a consensus for a Wiki per-PMC approach until some other Wiki technology might provide some other segmentation schema for oversight. The purpose is to

RE: Wiki - we have a problem :)

2003-02-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
: Saturday, February 01, 2003 16:46 To: community@apache.org Subject: Re: Wiki - we have a problem :) On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 02:10 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: a solution using the current Wiki code, I imagine that it would look something like: http://james.apache.org/wiki/ http

RE: Wiki - we've got a proposed solution - hierarchy

2003-02-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I hope we don't tear down the current one for a bit, make sure the PMC owned ones are a functional replacement. I understand your concern about data loss, and share it. See my comment about starting the new ones as clones of the current one. And no need to take down the old one (maybe make it

RE: Wiki - we've got a proposed solution - hierarchy

2003-02-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Thinking about it some more. I guess my concern is less about the data and more about the people. I'm most concerned about pulling the rug out from under people having fun before their a place they can move their fun to. I'm sure we can make the migration work. :-) We wouldn't remove any

Verifying links

2003-02-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Are the *.apache.org sites ever scanned for broken links? I noticed to day that Eric Raymond moved his personal web site from tuxedo.org to catb.org, invalidating all links to tuxedo.org. See http://hurkle.thyrsus.com/~esr, which says My site has moved to http://www.catb.org/~esr/. Please fix

RE: Verifying links

2003-02-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
, commons-* and found only 3 incorrect links. In any event, I'm wondering about the systematic issue. Do you think about a general link-checker installed on daedalus? Hmmm, is this really needed? IMHO this should be the responsibility of the content-producing group. cheers, Erik Noel J. Bergman

RE: Verifying links

2003-02-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
setup, a cron job could kick it off at the desired schedule. --- Noel -Original Message- From: Erik Abele [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 15:35 To: community@apache.org Subject: Re: Verifying links Noel J. Bergman wrote: Erik, You are most welcome

RE: Where we are.. continued..

2003-02-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I can see cars in my driveway from some of the sat images. Spooky. http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=35.708298long=-78.695515003scale=13theme= Imagedot=Yes ICBM, eh? Gulp. http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=34.036864long=-80.963427scale=10theme=Imagew idth=3height=2dot=Yes Thank G-d for trees. :-)

RE: Where we are.. continued..

2003-02-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Got a URL for one? --- Noel -Original Message- From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 16:36 To: community@apache.org Subject: RE: Where we are.. continued.. On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote: http://mapper.acme.com/?lat

Site scan results

2003-02-05 Thread Noel J. Bergman
It may not be as much fun as a member map, but: http://cvs.apache.org/~noel/sites/ The Jakarta, XML, DB and Avalon sites didn't properly generate the HTML results, but there is some information in the text files. If there is interest in this sort of site check, I'll try to get those working,

RE: primary distribution location

2003-02-05 Thread Noel J. Bergman
It will typically have import statements - something like: import lgpl.sshlibrary.Thingy; The import statement alone is sufficient to make the source code a work based on the Library, which means we could distribute under the terms of section 6. Those terms are viral and disallow

RE: licensing review

2003-02-05 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Certainly we need an official reading on [http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/], but Classpath is specifically licensed as GPL, the least compatible open-source license out there (not even a murkier LGPL). The issues with GPL are well-known. The Classpath author adds an addendum to allow

RE: [PROPOSAL] Open this list

2003-02-06 Thread Noel J. Bergman
the issue be reconsidered and that it be re-opened to the public. Obvious question: what has changed since you proposed that community@apache.org be open back in October (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]ms gNo=60)? I don't believe that you want your proposal to be viewed as

RE: [PROPOSAL] Open this list

2003-02-06 Thread Noel J. Bergman
One of the Three Dangers of the Fire Swamp suggested: if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a *new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that is a different matter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Noel

RE: Site scan results

2003-02-06 Thread Noel J. Bergman
yes please! It'd be cool if something like this could run every week or so, with summaries sent to the appropriate mailing list. I'll run it weekly, but I am *not* subscribing to every mailing list. :-) I'll post the files to my account, and a notice here. Not sure why it failed to generate

RE: Hashing it out [was: Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers ...]

2003-02-06 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Ken, can we get this on the Wiki page to protect feeble-minded folks like me? http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?Licensing I had just finished doing that. I hope that I got them right. --- Noel - To

RE: [PROPOSAL] Open this list

2003-02-06 Thread Noel J. Bergman
One of the Three Dangers of the Fire Swamp suggested: if you want to change this to a proposal that we create a *new* opt-in list with no restrictions on subscription, i think that is a different matter. [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, please no shrug I couldn't really care too much

RE: Classpath Licensing

2003-02-06 Thread Noel J. Bergman
as necessary. -- Noel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nic Ferrier Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:44 To: Noel J. Bergman Cc: Chris Burdess Subject: Re: Classpath Licensing Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Serge: The Classpath

RE: Suggestion...

2003-02-12 Thread Noel J. Bergman
David, I agree that there should be an e-mail. But it should be short, and consist of little more than a reference to the web site. All of this information should be available on the web site for review and update. As that content is enhanced, e-mail can go out to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -

RE: Suggestion...

2003-02-12 Thread Noel J. Bergman
There are clear instructions in the jakarta web site on how to handle cvs through ssh ... This sort of information is scattered across the *.apache.org sites. There are also instructions for doing it at http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#general. Oddly there is a separate section on

RE: Suggestion...

2003-02-13 Thread Noel J. Bergman
David, Actually, when I get a lengthy e-mail, the last thing I want to do is read it. I get enough of those, and they are likely to be shelved for when I have time to deal with it. Sometime between now and when hell freezes over. You want a response to your e-mail? Keep the scroll bars

RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)

2003-02-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Note: the essence of lazy consensus is that such actions are immeditely rolled back if an issue is raised. I plan to do exactly that. I assume that you mean roll it back if an issue is raised, because obviously you wouldn't have put it up if you had an objection. :-) Which PMC is going to

RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)

2003-02-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
all PMCs whose committers 'commit' to the repository should maintain some oversight. Infrastructure hasn't considered that a good model for the Wiki, and I don't know that it would work any better for the repository. Someone needs to take responsibility for the oversight. I'm not suggesting

RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location))

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Conor, I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Dion was refering to the repository; rather he was commenting in response to my aside regarding Ant and Maven: On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 09:48:42PM +1100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noel Bergman writes: I like the idea of a central repository. It

RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Jason, I am the one who raised the issue about Ant and Maven. I have made the observation before. Dion said that it was the Ant PMC that was in the way. Greg Stein replied that the Ant charter could be changed if that was the only issue. You jumped down Greg's throat about the Board taking

RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I think synergy is worth aiming for; reinventing the wheel (and mainting it) in several places is propably not worth it in the long run. That's my core philosophy of software development. --- Noel - To unsubscribe,

RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
My proposal is that Dion Gillard be asked to chair a repository committee. He is the most familar with the issues, he works with a lot of the Java technologies (Tomcat, Ant, Maven, James, Jetspeed, Struts, Turbine), and although he is a Maven fan, he is agnostic in terms of ensuring that all build

RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Leo, As you have seen from some of our exchange and Costin's comments, there are differing views on how to make use of the repository. Costin and I seem to be of the option that a significant portion of the value of the repository comes from sharing and centralizing the managment of

RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
To expand, I think ultimately all that matters is that a project be given the space it wants in an attempt to let it flourish. If the Maven developers want to be left entirely alone why is that a concern? Well, I'm not entirely sure how wanting to be left alone fits into an atmosphere of

RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I thought the whole reason that Ant, Avalon, Cocoon, James et al moved top level (out of Jakarta) was to get rid of top level umbrella PMCs so that each project has its own PMC. James, As I understand it, the ASF is flattening the hierarchy, but I see top-level projects established around

RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
All I'm getting out of these discussions is that we're capable of having long winded foodfights about turf. This is an important problem that needs to get solved. I wish that I were not starting to see this in a similar vein. With respect to the repository, and classpaths, I have proposed

RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
James, Do we really need to have one big community? We've fostered a tight knit community of maven developers, even if they are not so tight with other parts of Apache. No, I don't believe that we need to be all one community. There is relatively little in common between, for example, Tomcat

RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Costin, I agree with pretty much all of your particulars. To summarize, if I might: - the ASF repository shall contain ASF jars, which don't require oversight beyond the issuing PMC. - the ASF repository should contain shared third party jars for which the ASF has approved their use

RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)

2003-02-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
you get an ok on [sharing and centralizing the managment of ASF-acceptable third party jars] from the board and/or the infrastructure team, and consensus across the community, and I'll be absolutely 100% behind any such plan. I can't see how it would be acceptable to anyone without all of

Updating source files to have full ASF license

2003-02-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Just in case it would be of help to any other project(s), here is a link to a message I posted earlier tonight to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The message mentions the automated process by which I updated every Java file in James to have the full ASF License instead of a short form of the license that had

RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)

2003-02-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Not sure what you mean by lead ( do you propose a new PMC with Dion as chair ? ). I'm +1 on Dion - however the layout and recommendations must be decided by the normal apache community process I meant as in chair, except that it wouldn't be a PMC, so I don't know if the word chair would apply.

RE: Scrambling jar files?

2003-02-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I just ran into this and found that might be worth injecting into the jar repositories discussions. http://nbbuild.netbeans.org/scrambler.html Yes. That is what I was referring to when I mentioned click-through licenses on netbeans.org, and Costin seems to be aware of it as well.

RE: Maven and community

2003-02-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Dion, The reason for this challenge is simple: to demonstrate the the antipathy towards other ASF efforts is damaging not only to the ASF, but to Maven itself. 'antipathy' == 'A strong feeling of aversion or repugnance'. However you want to label it, Jason's harshly phrased statements

RE: Maven and community

2003-02-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Representing Jason as all Maven developers is a leap beyond that I can't fathom. As I said, I would expect that his comments weren't reflecting Maven's as a group, and I know that they don't reflect yours. It seems you are confusing your view of Jason, which you admit is limited to a short

RE: Maven and community

2003-02-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Jason, Did anyone question that you've contributed an immeasurable amount of good? I didn't. What happened was that you responded negatively to an aside about why not to put Ant and Maven under a single PMC. You talked about about not being forced to collaborate, and pulled Gump, centipede, the

RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location)

2003-02-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Nick, As long as you want to start with first principles ... If we have a layout and metadata we agree on - any tool could work. If it is an ant task or a perl program or we just rsync - it doesn't matter. A somewhat standard layout is the important part.

ASF Repository Structure

2003-02-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
a catalog.xml or whatever uptodate. -- Nick Chalko -Original Message- From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 14:46 To: community@apache.org Subject: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location) Nick, As long

RE: ASF Repository Structure

2003-02-28 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Why not just protocol://repository-path/artifact-name, where artifact name is as qualified as necessary, and is permanent? The project name, sub-project relationships, versioning, etc., could all be handled by the descriptor contents. For the smart repository approach, if you want to add

RE: ASF Repository Structure

2003-03-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Dion, Is there a reason why a project's repository URI cannot be orthogonal to whatever file system naming convention is adopted for downloadable parts? I think that it has to be orthogonal if we are to federate with other repositories without having to incorporate them by value. And it

RE: [ASF-Repository]Jars with/without version. was Re: [proposal] daedalus jar repository

2003-03-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Nick, Two problems here * The uri to find a needed jar. * How to store the jar on the local filesystem Does the URI (request) and descriptor (response) solution I proposed not address those goals? That approach decoupled the naming systems. --- Noel

RE: ASF repository URI syntax

2003-03-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
i think that maybe organization / project would be better that /project/[subproject/..]. More stable, less fragile. Still provides for qualified the naming space, and is more in keeping with how we've been doing package naming. I don't know if it needs to be a directory hierarchy, though.

RE: Updating source files to have full ASF license

2003-03-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Rich, What is the rationale for the full text in each and every file? ASF Board directive, as it was told to me. I wasn't privy to the decision making process, but I assume that a determination was made that: /* Copyright (C) The Apache Software Foundation. All rights reserved. * * This

RE: Updating source files to have full ASF license

2003-03-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
i said that, and i was at least partly wrong. see the attached message from roy. Translation: I did the right thing for ASL v1.1, but only for policy reasons? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For

RE: apache.org vs. mozilla.org

2003-04-06 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I *hate* bugzilla a lot. What is the latest news on Scarab? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Brazilian Free Software Congress

2003-04-14 Thread Noel J. Bergman
FWIW, I presented a developer's overview of the Jakarta technologies that was given at the Colorado Software Summit (www.softwaresummit.com) last year. My Spanish is pretty poor these days, and my Portuguese is non-existent, but I would be willing to share my presentation material with someone,

RE: How BSD hurts OpenSource

2003-05-13 Thread Noel J. Bergman
http://www.freewebs.com/sepero/index.html Of course LSD hurts OpenSource! People on LSD have impaired judgment and are prone to flights of fancy, including shared utopian faux philosophies. How could anyone argue that LSD doesn't hurt OpenSource? Oh? *B*SD? Sorry! Nevermind. ---

RE: How BSD hurts OpenSource

2003-05-13 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I don't suppose anyone caught Stallman's response in the 3/24 issue of Business Week, to the Linux article published on 3/3? He said the same thing to Leo Laporte last Fall. In the same interview, he added that songs could not be owned because they are creative acts like programs, althought

RE: Apache Wiki defaced

2003-06-07 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Fixed. Someone beat me to it by a few minutes, and then I fixed up the formatting. If you should see something like this again, the easy thing is to view the most recent good version, click to edit, and then just save. this opens the question of leaving the door open with no lock really works

RE: Apache Wiki defaced

2003-06-07 Thread Noel J. Bergman
this opens the question of leaving the door open with no lock really works in the long run or if we must live with wiki terrorists. The wiki theory is that it is so easy to repair vandalism that the immature cretins basically lose interest in their juvenile activities. For more

RE: Apache Wiki defaced

2003-06-07 Thread Noel J. Bergman
The Cocoon Wiki has been the victim of exactly the same disgusting defacement, approximately at the same moment I guess. *sigh* The discussion of what to do about it is over on infrastructure. I'm fairly sure from prior discussions that you are subscribed there, but just in case ...

RE: Apache Wiki defaced

2003-06-08 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Changes made to the Cocoon wiki are mailed to the cocoon-docs mailing list, so inappropriate changes are spotted much more quickly. Perhaps a similar setup could be adopted for the Apache wiki? The ASF wiki has that ability, with two issues: - The Wiki is ASF-wide, and almost no one wants to

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