Re: [Ant nudge STATUS] Better than we thought...

2002-10-26 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What would this mean for the Jakarta PMC as many of them are part of Ant? Do these PMC'ers do double duty? sure. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand

Re: Man, it's quiet here

2002-10-26 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: who, me? heh. everyone knows me; i'm the git with the big mouth. :-/ With that description (remember that negativity was supposed to be left on reorg@) they might confuse you for me ;-) oh, all right.. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini

Re: Why aren't they committers? (was: [VOTE] Open this list)

2002-10-27 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sam Ruby wrote: There are going to be culture classes as we try to move towards becoming one big happy family. did you mean 'clashes'? just want to make sure, since it changes the meaning a little.. :-) Most of it is due to ingrained assumptions that we have all built up over long periods

Re: Apache Community (was Re: [VOTE] Open this list)

2002-10-28 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
B. W. Fitzpatrick wrote: Limit the list to committers (with no public archive or posting ability) but allow committers to nominate users who have contributed to the Apache community, but not in a developer role (or users could ask to be added)? It seems to me that this would satisfy concerns

Re: [discussion] Jakarta PMC bylaws change

2002-11-04 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: On 4 Nov 2002, Costin Manolache wrote: The protection of the PMC matters the most for those who actually write code and actively participate in jakarta. Bear in mind that is -this- is the number one aim - we can do that without a PMC no, we can't.

Re: [discussion] Jakarta PMC bylaws change

2002-11-04 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sam Ruby wrote: I'm planning on submitting a proposal to change the bylaws of Jakarta to bring Jakarta's PMC structure closer to the HTTPD one. btw, sam, where are the current bylaws? or do they go by another name?

Re: Invitation to ApacheCon 2002 US (60% less expensive!)

2002-11-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
foo, i think i typed 'committers@' when i meant to type 'community@'. sorry! Original Message Subject: Invitation to ApacheCon 2002 US (60% less expensive!) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:23:56 -0500 From: Rodent of Unusual Size [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: The Apache Software

Re: Rules for Revolutionaries

2002-11-09 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Craig R. McClanahan wrote: Agreed. At the same time, I would love to see something written down about 'how the ASF guidelines are'. They might not be binding, just recommendations, but I think this will help a lot communities becaue these guidelines are distilled after years of try/fail

@apache web pages

2002-11-12 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
someone (andy?) started a trend of setting up personal web pages at cvs.apache.org (that being where all committers have accounts) and i'd like to refresh the idea in everyone's mind 'cuz i think it's a good one; help us get familiar with each other a bit, maybe. just put something in

Re: @apache web pages

2002-11-12 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Oh, and maybe start to maintain a repository of each person. A directory or something. Yellow-pages like front-page. that is a most excellent idea. i do not have the requisite karma to enact it, but +1 anyhow! http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/people.html updated

Re: @apache web pages

2002-11-12 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Ovidiu Predescu wrote: Or a script can identify what are the users that have home pages and generates the directory page automatically. This way there is no need to modify a config file, new users are automatically added once they have their home pages setup. heh, done in prototype. see my

Re: @apache web pages

2002-11-12 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Steven Noels wrote: How about people having a homepage at daedalus? i'd recommend that we settle on one place or the other, rather than having them scattered all about. and, since all committers (except php :-( have access to cvs.apache.org, and not everyone has access to daedalus, i

Re: Rules for Revolutionaries

2002-11-13 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Joe Schaefer wrote: Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I believe it was a mistake to allow two different codebases to share the same name. I'm not convinced that having two codebases is necessarily a mistake. it's not the multiple codebases that's the issue; it's that they

Re: The Apache Jakarta Law (Scientific?)

2002-11-13 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Costin Manolache wrote: So far it seems Stefano ( who is not currently a very active tomcat developer) is pissed off by the decisions made on tomcat-dev. I don't see too many tomcat developers flaming each other. the tomcat developers are not all that matter, though. users matter (it sounds

Re: Rules for Revolutionaries

2002-11-13 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Costin Manolache wrote: What you would have liked is your problem. As I repeated quite a few times and you don't seem to hear is that the decision about a release is a majority vote and can't be vetoed - even if it pisses off some people. not strictly true, although mostly. a product

Re: Ryan and Kelly: It's a Girl!

2002-11-29 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I didn't see this change proposed! Nor were we given a chance to vote on this. -1, Please roll back the changes until we've been given a chance to discuss them. ;-) um, i don't think you're a committer on the project in question.. :-D

Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-01 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sander Striker wrote: Right now the homepages aren't linked to from anywhere and certainly not promoted. url:http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/people.html, updated nightly, and certainly transformable into a more 'official' process.

Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-01 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: If Ken puts a little more description on the page, the keywords should get picked up by google. My blog seems to be well regarded by google. i'd rather address the issue of those people who use their directories for non-about-me stuff first.. there. anyone who

Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-01 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: --On Sunday, December 1, 2002 12:55 PM -0500 Rodent of Unusual Size [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: url:http://cvs.apache.org/~coar/people.html, updated nightly, and certainly transformable into a more 'official' process. Oh, ick. -- justin ick to what? its

Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-02 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sander Striker wrote: My point is that quite a number of people won't have the time (or inclination) to do so. And because they don't, they aren't listed*. : Currently the list (auto created) on Kens page holds about 40 committers. How many committers do we have in total?

Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-02 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sander Striker wrote: I agree with Nicola Ken. We *are* talking about different things. Stefano proposed a short bio, picture, etc. (Although, to date I have not had a significant problem with people mispronouncing my name). You are objecting to Beanie Babies. If it will help further

Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-02 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Noel J. Bergman wrote: It occurs to me that if people want to guide the content of the ASF hosted personal page, there could be a DTD, and the pages could be generated from an XML file using a consistent look ugh, ick. :-) that's pretty impersonal for a 'personal' page. not for me,

Re: [proposal] creation of communitity.apache.org

2002-12-02 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Noel J. Bergman wrote: As a new committer, I not only appreciate that view, I want to know where to find the info! :-) keep an eye on incubator.apache.org

Re: [RFC] prototype committers list with links

2002-12-02 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sam Ruby wrote: Fire away with comments, criticisms, suggestions, and most importantly, patches. I believe that this addresses most, if not all, of the concerns identified to date. If not, let me know. i would prefer to have my name link to my cvs.apache.org/~coar/ page. 1) The links

Re: [RFC] prototype committers list with links

2002-12-03 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
James Strachan wrote: We could extend the Maven-generated page to show the location of developers like httpd. heh. i would *really* like to see dots on a global map.

[ot] domain registrars

2002-12-19 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
i have *got* to transfer my domains away from networkproblems.com. they've become completely impossible, as opposed to just mostly. does anyone have any particular recommendations for a good registrar for .com/.net/.org domains, that won't charge exhorbitantly for the transfer or require a

Re: [ot] domain registrars

2002-12-19 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
i forgot to list a couple of things i need from a registrar: 1. reasonable transfer prices (no 'pay us for the privilege of paying us in the future' hooey, please ;-) 2. central management (multiple domains manageable from a single signon to the registrar's site) 3. ability to have

Re: [ot] domain registrars

2002-12-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
all right, i looked at a few and asked some questions. so far, dotster.com is out in front; they do almost everything i want. so i tried transferring one of my nsi domains to them yesterday. hallelujah, nsi apparently let it go through, because i rec'd a 'we're sorry to lose you, 'cuz we've got

Re: Do vs. Talk (Re: email notification done...sorta)

2003-01-09 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
James Taylor wrote: How viable is it to machine migrate the content? The UseModWiki content isn't in bare text files, so a little bit of work will be needed. Brilliant! what's yer beef? at least something got *done*! /me runs away -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini

Re: Do vs. Talk (Re: email notification done...sorta)

2003-01-09 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sam Ruby wrote: It certainly is easier to migrate content that exists, even if it is in the wrong format, than content that does not exist. +1! as usual, sam demonstrates his uncanny knack to cut through the persiflage to one of the real issues. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini

Re: [poll] weblog package on apache.org ?

2003-01-29 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Thom May wrote: - Should we select a Java based solution (the request came from jakarta-general initially), or anything else ? I think this question and the following one are premature. We need to agree on the necessity of *having* committer or project blogging before discussing what

Re: Open community (was ... secret discussions ...)

2003-01-29 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
um, the decision was to have open archives but subscriber-only posting, iirc. that makes the list open for viewing as you seem to be saying it is not, joshua, while also satisfying the people who don't want it to be *wide* open and allowing drive-by comments and spam. it is a directed list for

Re: Where are we?

2003-01-29 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Ben Hyde wrote: I wonder if we could do something fun. I think it would be fun to have a map that shows where the various people in the community are located on the planet. My fuzzy idea is that members of the community would put ICBM tags[1] on some web page of their. That can drive

Re: Adding community@ archives was Open community (was ... secret discussions ...)

2003-01-30 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Pier Fumagalli wrote: Should I make community@ available also on EyeBrowse? (Please, make sure to CC me as I'm not on the Community list) yes, please. and let us know the url. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist

Re: Where to place Agora?

2003-02-03 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Erik Abele wrote: However, perhaps an 'OKAY' from the Incubator is still needed? Ken, can you give further explanations? one of the (many) purposes of the incubator is to protect the asf from the dead-projects effect. the exits from the incubator are: an existing project, a new project, a

Re: Where to place Agora?

2003-02-04 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: I am not sure that this type of project is the right sort of thing for ASF wide attention and support. Research projects such as this are valuable playgrounds - but do not map to operational systems or components with a wider use. i do not see anything in our

Re: Where we are.. continued..

2003-02-04 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sam Ruby wrote: ICBM, eh? Gulp. what's fun about this is that my home shows up as woods, despite having been there about seven years. :-) -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand

Re: primary distribution location

2003-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Roy T. Fielding wrote: In short, the answer is no, and this applies to any software with copyright of The Apache Software Foundation. which brings up a very good point that may have been overlooked: this applies to anything on ibiblio or elsewhere that is copyright the asf. it does not apply

Re: Clear the air Re: ATTN: Maven developers [was: primary distribution location]

2003-02-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
okey, i'm wading in here, noting as i do the angels high-tailing it in the other direction.. :-) i'm ccing [EMAIL PROTECTED] because i think portions of this discussion are important to the entire asf developer community, and not just jakarta. (jakarta leads the way again! grin

Re: [PROPOSAL] Open this list

2003-02-06 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
* On 2003-02-05 at 18:55, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] excited the electrons to say: I would like to propose that after seeing the way that this list functions up until now, that it the issue be reconsidered and that it be re-opened to the public. as has been poiinted out by others,

mailing list for apache-related opportunies

2003-02-12 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
just in case you weren't aware of it, i run a mailing list for people interested in hearing about apache-related opportunities. speaking, jobs, teaching, ... ; web server, java, xml, ... http://apache-server.com/opportunities.html a couple that have just come in (partial excerpts; full details

Re: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository)

2003-02-26 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
okey, this ticked my bogometer. Jason van Zyl wrote: My comments cannot be misinterpreted. an interesting position. :-) My observations relate strictly to the behaviour of the board in their relationship with Sam. indeed: your observations. subjective opinion, in other words, not the one

Re: Updating source files to have full ASF license

2003-03-02 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Noel J. Bergman wrote: Rich, What is the rationale for the full text in each and every file? ASF Board directive, as it was told to me. I wasn't privy to the decision making process, but I assume that a determination was made that: /* Copyright (C) The Apache Software Foundation. All

Re: anyone know the progress of the Maven top level proposal?

2003-03-05 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
James Strachan wrote: Just wondered if anyone knew the boards latest view of the 'Maven as top level project' proposal? Its been a bit quiet lately - have I missed anything? afaik, jason, dIon, and the board are refining the charter. i think that's the only thing. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar,

Re: How BSD hurts OpenSource

2003-05-13 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote: What happened to the license FAQ there was talk about a while ago? you mean http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html ? -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/

Call for Participation for ApacheCon US 2003

2003-07-26 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Call for Participation: ApacheCon US 2003 = November 16-19, 2002, Las Vegas, Nevada, US [Please feel free to forward this notice far and wide!] SUBMISSION DEADLINE: Monday, 25 August May 2003, 23:59 EDT Come share your

REMINDER: ApacheCon 2003 US proposals due NEXT MONDAY!

2003-08-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- REMINDER: NEXT MONDAY IS THE DEADLINE FOR SPROPOSAL SUBMISSION! Call for Participation: ApacheCon US 2003 = November 16-19, 2003, Las Vegas, Nevada, US [Please feel free to forward this notice far and wide!] SUBMISSION

Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd: Returned post for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]

2003-08-25 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Steven Noels wrote: You can also politely poll [EMAIL PROTECTED] for most of the apache lists, that gets turned into a single person when ezmlm [re]configures the list. it requires special handling to change that to be the moderators. only four lists are currently so configured:

Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]

2003-08-26 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
David Reid wrote: As one of the moderators for announce@apache.org I'd have happily moderated through your announcement... unless something has been changed, only mail originating from an @apache.org address will even reach the announce@apache.org moderation queue. all other sources will get

Re: No answer from announceme...@jakarta.apache.org [Fwd:Returnedpost for announceme...@jakarta.apache.org]

2003-08-26 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Hi, now I know a reason: --- cut --- Hi. This is the qmail-send program at apache.org. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. announce@apache.org:

Re: [PROPSAL] Support EU Patent Vote Protest

2003-08-27 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Thom May wrote: The page is currently at http://cvs.apache.org/~gianugo/apache-protest.html and simply imposes a 60 second delay on viewing the current ASF index page. The page contains very simple text that is non-inflammatory wordings and fits nicely with the ASF website look and feel. The

Re: W3C Ceases Development on libwww

2003-09-06 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Someone interested in working on it? i don't know how much time i could give it (a nanosecond here or there, maybe) but hell yeah it should be adopted by the asf! -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist

Re: Follow the example

2003-09-19 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's no coverage on some of the top level projects you mention, e.g. no sessions on Ant, Avalon, James Maven. um, because no-one submitted proposals about them. sessions don't spring out of thin air, y'know. and just because ant doesn't have any sessions, doe

Re: Apachecon: The Guru Is In

2003-09-24 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Rich Bowen wrote: OK, I added on in cvs, and then read your note. So it's your preference that these not be going on during sessions? That leaves very little time - just the lunch and coffee breaks. My thought hat been to have these be going on while sessions were going on for the few folks

Re: Apachecon: The Guru Is In

2003-09-28 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Pier Fumagalli wrote: In my opinion the key idea of the ASF is to push the idea of the different communities behind a project. I can't count how many times I heard on our lists that a project can be considered mature only when the original author left and someone else in the community picked

Re: Status of Pluto?

2003-10-01 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I just found out by chance that a cvs repository and a web site for Pluto at Jakarta exist. Can someone expand on the current status? What are the next steps? better asked on [EMAIL PROTECTED], though i don't know what the answer will be. -- #kenP-)} Ken

Re: Inappropriate use of announce@

2003-10-20 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Sander Striker wrote: Also consider the people that are subscribed to the announce list, all 8304 of them. I'm sure they didn't sign up to an announcement list to receive 43k emails. If they had wanted that, they would have subscribed to a newsletter... ;). after any announcement to any

Re: Information channels, Re: Inappropriate use of announce@

2003-10-20 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Any by trying to build an ideal world for yourself, you basically killed whatever enthusiasm or dedication Tetsuya showed. Because you offered no support or at least positive feedback but only we don't like this format, this way of posting, this content, change

Re: Private mail lists [was: Inappropriate use of announce@]

2003-10-23 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Steven Noels wrote: Santiago Gala wrote: Just tell them. I think they are all PMC Chairs are subscribed to board, so it should be easy to tell them there to Sideway comment from my little peanut gallery: this is (only) the second time I overheard that PMC chairs can subscribe to board@

Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs

2004-01-09 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Brian Behlendorf wrote: But pulling back, perhaps a way to address Noel's concern is to have this aggregator only pull content from the RSS feeds that the blogger marks as somehow being Apache-related. RSS allows arbitrary metadata, right? Is there an easy way to mark a post in most

Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs

2004-01-09 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Ben Hyde wrote: Well it's all well and good until somebody get's hurt. For example Ken's posting about how his Forsythia is blooming and meanwhile it's -1F here and I gather up in NH there are places that are -38F. How do you think that makes me feel? Hot and bothered, that's how! -

Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs

2004-01-12 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Does it seem sensible to take an already successful ASL licensed, community developed piece of software by an already successful open source developer and force it into a somewhat beta status by making it go through the incubator just because that is the way things

Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs

2004-01-12 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Dave Brondsema wrote: So if it's not a formality that all new ASF projects should undergo, who decides if a project should be incubated or if it can go directly to being a regular project? code coming to the asf which has existed elsewhere first *must* come in through the incubator in

Re: Plant Apache is now online

2004-01-15 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
'plant apache -- and let the seed grow' :-) -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and shrimp! - To unsubscribe,

Re: Planet may look a bit weird for a while

2004-01-19 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Thom May wrote: Since we're working around the brokeness that is RSS 0.91; all feeds with no times are being time guessed, which unfortunately means that all their old posts are gonna turn up on top. So, the way to fix this is to blog more! Get to it! just a thought.. right now,

planet aggregation doing some editing?

2004-02-09 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
so, how come the aggregator is stripping out 'style=' attributes? it turned 'span style=border: 1px solid;' into 'span', which caused some confusion for someone trying to follow something in one of my entries.. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author,

Re: planet aggregation doing some editing?

2004-02-09 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
Thom May wrote: it strips all tags that might allow malicious users to insert problematic code. the style attribute is dangerous? -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and

apachecon cfp is out, please forward

2004-06-24 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
the apachecon call for participation has been sent to a set of core lists. please forward the message to percolate through the various communities (incubator, xml, php, jakarta, geronimo, database, avalon, et cetera). [for instance, sessions on spamassassin would rock, imho.] -- #kenP-)}

Re: Volunteers wanted: Linuxworld Expo booth

2004-07-08 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- suddenly i'll be at linuxworld, but i don't know if i can help out or not. - -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ Millennium hand and shrimp! -BEGIN PGP

apache swag

2004-07-14 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- the appropriate permissions having been obtained, my apache swag store is now open: http://www.cafeshops.com/meepzor/230676 a percentage of the profits are donated to the apache software foundation. this note is not a solicitation to buy stuff, but for

Re: apache swag

2004-07-15 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- David N. Welton wrote: Have you had a look at the results of any of these things, in person? i have ordered some of my own mugs and am quite happy w/them. - -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/ Author, developer, opinionist

Re: Board Commentary: Metro and Avalon

2004-09-24 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- everyone knows i cannot keep my mouth shut to save my life. Niclas Hedhman wrote: If you don't understand this, you don't understand Apache. That itself sounds more like communism under Stalin than an open society willing to discuss issues. and *that*

Re: Board Commentary: Metro and Avalon

2004-09-26 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- handwave, handwave. you claimed 'total transparency;' i simply illustrated why i suspected it was no such thing. you have confirmed that. Niclas Hedhman wrote: So, I still maintain that a cultural difference lay behind the difference of opinion, whether

Re: Apache Community Worldwide -- again

2004-09-27 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- i think the point that's missing is how do new committers (or old ones who haven't yet) get their coordinates onto the map? - -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Ken.Coar.Org/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/

Re: Board Commentary: Metro and Avalon

2004-09-27 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- [resending, with modifications, due to screwed up cc list the first time] Stephen McConnell wrote: I find this discussion and the usage of terms such as severe lack of respect to be out of place and largely disproportionate with the real topic, substance

Re: Apache Community Worldwide -- again

2004-09-27 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Sander Temme wrote: On Sep 27, 2004, at 3:58 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: i think the point that's missing is how do new committers (or old ones who haven't yet) get their coordinates onto the map? Smart point. Well, what would you say to using [EMAIL

Re: Apache Community Worldwide -- again

2004-09-27 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Sander Temme wrote: That might get some additional people on the map. Would it be a good idea to have the world map feature prominently on the apache.org site? That would illustrate the fact that we're a global community and be good PR. +1 - -- #ken

Re: Apache Community Worldwide -- again

2004-09-28 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Dave Brondsema wrote: I know from experience that it took a while for me to become aware of the existence of so many semi-private lists/resources. E.g., [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], committers module, planetapache.org, etc.

Re: Style of community building

2004-09-29 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Wednesday 29 September 2004 06:38, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: And when asked *expliticly* to address our concerns about community-style, you just look the other way. Until this day, I have not been interested in history, there is

Re: Page of mailing list data

2004-10-28 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- David Crossley wrote: That is a very useful resource, thanks Ken. I see that some projects have their cvs|svn|scm lists shown, but others do not, e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lists will not appear on that page if they are private -- namely,

Re: Page of mailing list data

2004-10-28 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- David Crossley wrote: That is a very useful resource, thanks Ken. I see that some projects have their cvs|svn|scm lists shown, but others do not, e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lists will not appear on that page if they are private -- namely,

Re: Page of mailing list data

2004-11-04 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Henri Yandell wrote: The # of moderators would be good to have on there, even better would be the apache logon of the moderators. I don't see why.. that information is already available to committers, and I'm not at all sure we want it any more public

Re: Page of mailing list data

2004-11-06 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Henri Yandell wrote: Just looking for an easier way than querying the mail lists one at a time. Every now and then we discover that a list is inadequately moderated and so I'm trying to think of ways to maintain oversight there. The mailing list query

ApacheCon news: On-site coding contest!

2004-11-03 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- News Flash! IBM is sponsoring a special contest at ApacheCon 2004 US, and donating some very nice prizes, including a first prize of a ThinkPad model T42, with 1GiB of memory, 40GiB of disk, a CD-RW/DVD-ROM, and integrated wireless networking. Another major

Update to mailing lists page

2004-12-02 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- I've revamped the Apache mailing lists data page a little bit. (http://www.apache.org/~coar/mlists.html) For one thing, the moderator-supplied description for each list has moved to *below* the list statistics. For another, I've added an activity graph for

Re: Update to mailing lists page

2004-12-02 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Yoav Shapira wrote: Echo Geir's this is cool! sentiment. Just to reconfirm, this is public data, correct? That is, I can post a link to this page on my blog, or on one of the public mailing lists itself... Correct. There's nothing here that couldn't

Re: Update to mailing lists page

2004-12-08 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Ben Laurie wrote: The usual answer is to put one axis at the left, one at the right. Excellent; that's a useful suggestion for a solution. Done. The left-hand side now shows the highwater mark for subscriptions, and the right-hand side shows it for posts.

Re: Update to mailing lists page

2004-12-09 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Antonio Gallardo wrote: The link is very nice! Can you add the cvs mail lists to see the activity of them too? The page is for *all* public ASF lists. 'Public' meaning 'anyone can subscribe without having to be moderated.' If there are lists that aren't

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-15 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Stephen McConnell wrote: The Board had nothing to do with these directions or choices. Our only (recent) involvment was that the VP in charge of Avalon asked us to terminate the project, so we did. A board decision taken *without* the endorsement of the

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-16 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Niclas Hedhman wrote: Smoke and Mirrors Not at all. Stephen was incorrect, and I was providing the correction. I passed no judgement about whether any of the decisions were the right ones, only stated that they were valid. - -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar,

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-20 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Niclas Hedhman wrote: Who wants to commit any code or do anything in an environment as poisonous as Avalon was at the time? 4. So you don't want to spend any time in Avalon, but you really do want to make it hard for everyone else? There has to be

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-20 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Stephen McConnell wrote: Maybe it's about dealing with the breach of procedure by the Chair of a PMC and ensuring that this does not get rewarded nor repeated. Once again, there was no technical breach of procedure. Of custom, perhaps, but not of

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-20 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Stephen McConnell wrote: Irrespective of the validity of this opinion - members of the board actively encouraged Aaron to ignore any PMC opinion and take an executive decision. Provide citations supporting this, please. - -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar,

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tuesday 21 December 2004 05:05, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: Regardless of whether there was any 'right' or 'wrong' position, it appears that there were irreducible differences. I only recall one side expressing a willingness

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tuesday 21 December 2004 07:54, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Actually, all it takes to veto a change is one PMC member to cast a -1 with a technical justification. The issue is how a community deals with those vetos, and how progress

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tuesday 21 December 2004 07:41, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Point? That consensus by attrition is a negatively loaded term, yet a natural occurring thing in all projects (people do leave healthy projects) which is replenished with

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Niclas Hedhman wrote: A practice of asking people to leave, or trying to drive them away, because they don't agree with you is not acceptable. It is a single occurrence in time, and in my book everyone is allowed to make occassional mistakes. You make

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Niclas Hedhman wrote: That FUD is prevalent in ASF establishment, against its own contributors, for unknown reasons, possibly unintentionally, by an unnamed, possibly unknown, person or a group of persons. And that FUD is being amplified by everyone

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Stephen McConnell wrote: OK - let's play this game but let's do it properly. I don't intend to touch this remark. Open up the Avalon PMC archives and let's really get down to real metal and in the process I think we will clean up more that a couple of

Re: [ANN] Avalon Closed

2004-12-21 Thread Rodent of Unusual Size
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Stephen McConnell wrote: Once again, there was no technical breach of procedure. Of custom, perhaps, but not of procedure. This is another dead horse that should stop getting beaten. A set of polices and procedures were established and these procedures

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