I've been out of the loop for a while but check your kernel
sound modules are loading (lsmod|grep snd). This has been a
prob on more than one distribution. You may have to issue a
moddep or you may not actually have the required modules.
Thank you. In fact i flashed OM-testing to test a
Dear community,
I'm writing this to inform you that the optimization team is
dismissed, so there won't be weekly updates anymore. Further details
and reasons behind this are inappropriate to be answered by me.
Regards,
John
___
Openmoko community
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 16:52 +0800, John Lee wrote:
Dear community,
I'm writing this to inform you that the optimization team is
dismissed, so there won't be weekly updates anymore. Further details
and reasons behind this are inappropriate to be answered by me.
And you switched your email
John Lee wrote:
Dear community,
I'm writing this to inform you that the optimization team is
dismissed, so there won't be weekly updates anymore. Further details
and reasons behind this are inappropriate to be answered by me.
What the heck? Are there any _long-term_ visions how to make
Steve, Sean, anybody more appropriate please clarify this ASAP, no
more resources in optimization?? crisis has arrive at least to
Openmoko Inc.??? It not sounds any good :( :(
2008/12/10 John Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Dear community,
I'm writing this to inform you that the optimization team
David,
the optimization team finished their work a few weeks ago, most people
were working on new tasks already.
I knew before I had to take the blame for expectations that got
unprofessionally raised to a level where we could not deliver, and
here I am now taking the blame.
Let me explain
the panic about where openmoko puts their efforts in...
panic for NO REASON.
sorry no offence but, i think it is because of the infacy of some users,
which can't hande information and start running around in circles
screaming fire, fire fire!.
i am sure there will still be optimization, but
Le mercredi 10 décembre 2008, Wolfgang Spraul a écrit :
David,
the optimization team finished their work a few weeks ago, most people
were working on new tasks already.
I knew before I had to take the blame for expectations that got
unprofessionally raised to a level where we could not
sorry no offence but, i think it is because of the infacy of some users,
which can't hande information and start running around in circles
screaming fire, fire fire!.
sentences like these
dismissed, so there won't be weekly updates anymore. Further details
and reasons behind this are
Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
---2 Mickey's framework milestones
As many people know, the next big thing for Openmoko will be Mickey's
FSO framework around d-bus and Python, and the Paroli telephony UI.
Thank you very much for this overview of strategy.
I have used
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:53:18PM +0200, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote:
However, I am bit puzzled about building on top of a new graphical
toolkit (EFL). Wouldn't we avoid many problems by using established
toolkits like QT or GTK+? The UI is supposed to be light so it should
be easy to port it
setting ti_calypso_deep_sleep = never.
That way, it drains a lot of battery even when suspended :(
don't see that with debian/fso -- i was afraid of it too, but mickey said
it wouldn't matter compared to the amount of power drawn by permanent
re-connecting ...
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
EFL isn't exactly new, just not so popular as gtk+ or qt.
Heh, maybe I'm just being a bit debian centric here. I saw
libecore0 - Core abstraction layer for enlightenment DR 0.17
in debian experimental and thought that it can't be too
It is possible to create your own router with a routerboard ...
Now if Openmoko were to create an OpenWRT compatible router with
stupid
amounts of storage space, awesome wireless range, a screaming CPU
Out of curiosity, what's the main benefit in having a hackable ADSL
router? Outside of
I'd really like pictures with better focus and a little more light...
especially the last one, which is very blurred!
Citando Steve Mosher [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Sorry,
I pulled the old copy. See below
SOP paper (draft3, 2008-12-10 19:00) placed here:
Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Our current stable image is called 'Om2008.9', available at
http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/
We are sometimes cherry-picking fixes into it, but admittedly not as
many as we would like. If someone wants to step up to become stable
Yes - could we have a definitive answer on whether there will be a
2008.12 release of the current testing?
I seem to remember that a few weeks ago it was nearly ready and it was
almost certainly going to be 2008.11, clearly it slipped...
Cheers,
- Gunnar
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote:
Wolfgang
-Message d'origine-
De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de
Neil Jerram
Envoyé : mercredi 10 décembre 2008 11:56
À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion
Objet : Re: Crackly Calls and Battery Tips!
2008/12/10 Steve Mosher [EMAIL
Marc Manthey wrote:
Am 10.12.2008 um 13:15 schrieb Andreas Fischer:
Marc Manthey wrote:
Second question
I would like to know if there is a DNS server implementation
or something like bonjour / avahi available for openmoko ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg list_installed | grep avahi
Hi,
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 18:13 +0800, Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
The latest image, including all optimizations from the optimization
team are in
http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/testing/
(openmoko-testing-om)
We were testing this image a bit, haven't seen the full test report
yet.
Bernd,
i am sure there will still be optimization, but without a dedicated
team, so there won't be regular updates.
Correct.
From my perspective the updates weren't helpful anyway, I'd rather
not talk and instead deliver.
The latest image, including all optimizations from the optimization
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Timo Juhani Lindfors
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Heh, maybe I'm just being a bit debian centric here. I saw
libecore0 - Core abstraction layer for enlightenment DR 0.17
in debian experimental and thought that it can't be too established or
un-new.
I would
I'm not sure how standalone avahi-discover-standalone is:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg install avahi-discover-standalone
Installing avahi-discover-standalone (0.6.22-r8.01) to root...
Downloading
Hi,
as a last resort i'm reporting publicly my problems regarding a
broken-on-arrival battery from Truebox.com after i had ordered from
them OpenMoko's FR, on August 2008.
I reported my problematic battery as soon as i got my hands on it, on
late August-September on the following MLs:
[1]: New
Marc Manthey wrote:
Guess avahi-discover-standalone might be enough for browsing IMHO ?
I suppose the dns-sd command you gave me should return info on all FTP
services within the dns-sd.org domain. I dabbled with avahi some time
ago and if I remember correctly the command you are searching
Am 10.12.2008 um 14:38 schrieb Joseph Reeves:
Configuring avahi-discover-standalone
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# a
addgroup adduseralsamixer apmd ar
assassin atinterface
addressbookalsactlapmapp-restarter ash
atdawk
looks
John Lee wrote:
I shouldn't say gta03, I should say the next generation software we
are going to use. Since people will switch to that software with
their freerunner (gta02), it makes more sense to put more resource
to work on that. My writing wasn't accurate enough. Sorry about that.
Hi,
I'm using Om2008.9, and now i see that i only get a fix outside, and in
a place without many buildings or trees.
I'm using TangoGPS and i already have download the maps, and i can use
it in my car, he shows the route, and the speed, its work great!
I get this fix, but if mobile suspend i
Am 10.12.2008 um 13:59 schrieb Andreas Fischer:
Marc Manthey wrote:
Am 10.12.2008 um 13:15 schrieb Andreas Fischer:
Marc Manthey wrote:
Second question
I would like to know if there is a DNS server implementation
or something like bonjour / avahi available for openmoko ?
[EMAIL
On Wednesday 10 December 2008 10:58:36 Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
David,
the optimization team finished their work a few weeks ago, most people
were working on new tasks already.
The most wanted improvement of the optimization team was, at least for me, a
solution to #1024.
I still suffer it.
Marc Manthey wrote:
Second question
I would like to know if there is a DNS server implementation
or something like bonjour / avahi available for openmoko ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg list_installed | grep avahi
libavahi-client3 - 0.6.22-r8.01 -
libavahi-common3 - 0.6.22-r8.01 -
Am 10.12.2008 um 13:15 schrieb Andreas Fischer:
Marc Manthey wrote:
Second question
I would like to know if there is a DNS server implementation
or something like bonjour / avahi available for openmoko ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# opkg list_installed | grep avahi
libavahi-client3 -
From another FreeRunner running 2008.9:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# a
addgroup adduseralsamixer apmd ar
assassin atinterfaceavahi-daemon
addressbookalsactlapmapp-restarter ash
atdavahi-autoipd awk
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~#
On 10 Dec 2008, at 01:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stroller wrote:
For me, personally, a fully open-source ADSL router would be more
compelling. Whilst you can do just about anything you want with
iptables, most of us need a separate ADSL box of some sort [1]. Given
any arbitrary ADSL
Dear Group,
if I 'opkg upgrade' once, shouldn't do the same when I reboot and try to
upgarde one more time? Why does opkg keep 'upgrading'?
Thanks
Tony
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
Rui Castro wrote:
Hi,
Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably
in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone
funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the
distributions available). Some distributions provide some of the basic
I'm completly agree with Rui.
The fact is that today, after several months, we have a phone that is not
(yet) fully working.
As my experience i tried all the distributions and the better one (in my
very personal opinion) is the SHR
that (unfortunately) doesn't include a phone calls manager, an
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Thomas Bumbl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd like to announce the initial release of OMoney!
OMoney ... bookkeeping on the go.
One might ask, why the hell do we need a bookkeeping software on a phone?
Because my experience shows that if one does not record the
people,
i tend to agree with Rui as well. i understand it is difficult to
'kill your darlings' but what is the (business) sense to have '8
distributions for 10.000 phones'? (the only reason i can think of is
some innovative user interface, and not one of the current
distributions has
(At least now i got a reply!)
Your reply raises 3 immediate issues:
1) If you were indeed willing to do business with me *before*, why
then did you ignore my last 2+1 mails (see next issue), on Oct 31, Dec
the 1st and Dec the 5th?
2) Since you claimed to have sent me already 1 battery and got
Andreas Fischer ha scritto:
I totally disagree. First, I do not think that phones age that quick. I
used an age-old Nokia phone (I think it was a 3510 - ca. 2002) until I
got my Freerunner this summer. Unless something unforeseen happens, next
summer the two Neos will _still_ be the only fully
Thank you for your replies.
First question would be:
why the hell is this thread mixed up with anotherone at nabble?
Then:
@Arigead:
I have planned in location awareness (the database includes a field
for gps coords)
All location based features will come later though
Other stuff has higher
Andreas Fischer wrote:
Hi,
I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but I am a bit confused by people
constantly complaining: Either you have a completely different phone or
you came here with the wrong expectations. To me at least it was clear
when I got the phone that it wouldn't be
At least you could provoke Rob to finally reply. A store that is not willing
to send packages with tracking and then complains if you say the packages do
not arrive is not worth any more money. Even you yourself said he should use
tracking, so he is not in position to rectify himself with high
Could you please compile a version with these debug outputs?
I still can't play doom because i don't know the reason why it hangs at
the start screen. This would really help to solve the problem for me and
mayby some other debian users. :)
Fox Mulder wrote:
I think the debug output would be
'kill your darlings' but what is the (business) sense to have '8
distributions for 10.000 phones'? (the only reason i can think of is
om provides and develops only one distribution!
if there are more than this one it is done by community effort -- people
who bought the freerunner exactly
On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 07:30:07PM +0100, Thomas Bumbl wrote:
P.S.: Special thanks to Ainulindale for helping me with bitbake.
And special thanks
We should make an Ainulindale appreciation day :)
Rui
--
Or not.
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 52nd day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174
Michel wrote:
Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people
can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the
buzz bug or not.
That would be a good idea. Let's start this wiki page and also record
the echo issue in it (which also seems to vary among people). Anyone
Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people
can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the
buzz bug or not.
That would be a good idea. Let's start this wiki page and also record
the echo issue in it (which also seems to vary among people). Anyone
knowing
probably a stupid question but ... where can I find the log of that
application?
I'm using the latest jffs (Om2008.9-gta02-20081117.rootfs.jffs2) and did the
updates from the test repos
Thanks
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Thomas Bumbl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thank you for your replies.
Actually we really should. :)
Thank you Ainulindale!
Thank you quickdev!
2008/12/10 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 07:30:07PM +0100, Thomas Bumbl wrote:
P.S.: Special thanks to Ainulindale for helping me with bitbake.
And special thanks
We
i want to use bonjour or avahi for my project BUT
Avahi does not implement this functionallity yet,
--
On Linux (at least on Debian), you need the mDNSResponder package
provided by
Apple on the Bonjour downloads page. Unfortunately,
Avahi_doesn't_yet
I agree with Rui, and as a Software Engineer with about a decade of C under
my belt I should be able to help out. It's just getting motivated and
getting started that are the problems here
The nice thing about Android is that it seems like the interface stuff is
basically there, it's sharp
I was watching the FR since 2 years almost, I was runing crazy (checking the
home page 3 times a day) until I got my first FR in August
I am a very proud FR owner, and beeing part of the comunity.
arne anka wrote:
the buzzing issue is _technically_ solved.
the cause has been found a long
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Am 10.12.2008 17:17, arne anka schrieb:
Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people
can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the
buzz bug or not.
That would be a good idea. Let's start this wiki page and also
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:11:21 +0300 Vadim, Efimov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:21:35 +0300, ivvmm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another vote for this. The analog clock is rather useless.
enlightenment have extra module - tclock,( many
Rodney Myers wrote:
On Dec 8, 2008, at 2:55 AM, arne anka wrote:
doesn't your /etc/fstab contain an entry for /mnt/flash or so?
from installing debian on sd i got
/dev/mtdblock6 /mnt/flash jffs2
defaults,noatime,noauto 0 2
which mounts the internal flash -- not sure, though,
arne anka wrote:
Hi,
i wish, you guys would check archives and wiki before posting this stuff.
Maybe you should read my message a bit better before replying. :)
the buzzing issue is _technically_ solved.
the cause has been found a long while ago.
fixes where tested and brought down to a
On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
Rodney Myers wrote:
On Dec 8, 2008, at 2:55 AM, arne anka wrote:
doesn't your /etc/fstab contain an entry for /mnt/flash or so?
from installing debian on sd i got
/dev/mtdblock6 /mnt/flash jffs2
defaults,noatime,noauto
Is there any useful Information in the net, which tells me a little
something about the big mistery ALSA on openmoko? After installing the
pymixer I can no longer use my moko as phone because I neither have
sound nor microfone. All information I find about this topic is more or
less useless.
Am Wednesday 10 December 2008 21:23:06 schrieb Clemens Dörrhöfer:
Is there any useful Information in the net, which tells me a little
something about the big mistery ALSA on openmoko? After installing the
pymixer I can no longer use my moko as phone because I neither have
sound nor microfone.
Clemens Dörrhöfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is there any useful Information in the net, which tells me a little
something about the big mistery ALSA on openmoko? After installing the
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem has a useful
block diagram and
arne anka wrote:
[...]
Echo reacts to some tweaking in alsa and maybe Calypso firmware
option selection, I guess this turn up in rootfs images as best it
can.
OK, but do you need to be so imprecise about this? What can't there
be a definitive solution?
because the echo is caused only
Wolfgang thanks a lot for this clear development guide, It really
clear my mind and I'm anxious to follow,test and play with all the
steps you have mentioned, I will try to helps as much as I can in this
line.
2008/12/10 Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
David,
the optimization team finished
2008/12/10 Minh Ha Duong [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Second: Basing FDOM on 2008.testing seems even more a good idea now. Given
that the official plan does not seem to include its release to the masses.
I'm doing my best to have a release soon thanks for the support :)
Is there any work towards using service commands(maybe i'm using the wrong
term here). By service command I mean I can call *100# to learn the
balance on my prepaid account. I tried this both on zhone(Debian) and qt
dialer(2008.8, QTX), none seemed to work.
Is this a complicated task or am I the
Am Wednesday 10 December 2008 22:27:38 schrieb Atilla Filiz:
Is there any work towards using service commands(maybe i'm using the wrong
term here). By service command I mean I can call *100# to learn the
balance on my prepaid account. I tried this both on zhone(Debian) and qt
dialer(2008.8,
Atilla Filiz wrote:
Is there any work towards using service commands(maybe i'm using the
wrong term here). By service command I mean I can call *100# to learn
the balance on my prepaid account. I tried this both on zhone(Debian)
and qt dialer(2008.8, QTX), none seemed to work.
Is this a
Marcel wrote:
Am Wednesday 10 December 2008 21:23:06 schrieb Clemens Dörrhöfer:
Is there any useful Information in the net, which tells me a little
something about the big mistery ALSA on openmoko? After installing the
pymixer I can no longer use my moko as phone because I neither have
sound
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Rui Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably
in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone
funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the
distributions
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Rui Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably
in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone
funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the
distributions
eeeuhm
this is no fix... yes it consumes less globally than with the constant
reconnecting,
but a ton of c4 is also less harmful than an nuclear bomb
doesn't mean we have to be happy with a ton of c4 in our pocket...
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:11 PM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It doesn't seem to work for me in QTEx 4.4.2(i thought this was .1) Thank
you for the reply.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Clemens Dörrhöfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Atilla Filiz wrote:
Is there any work towards using service commands(maybe i'm using the
wrong term here). By service
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:16:38 +0100 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
babbled:
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:11:21 +0300 Vadim, Efimov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:21:35 +0300, ivvmm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another vote for
Am Wednesday 10 December 2008 22:27:38 schrieb Atilla Filiz:
Is there any work towards using service commands(maybe i'm using the wrong
term here). By service command I mean I can call *100# to learn the
balance on my prepaid account. I tried this both on zhone(Debian) and qt
dialer(2008.8,
KaZeR wrote:
drac2000 wrote:
I already tried it with my maps.. but not successfully through engine
finding paths and all that ...
What version was it?
Was it successful for you finding and routing?
Yes, but for France i'm using Reiseplanner maps (commercial, around 40e).
I'm using
All,
I've been looking for this usb hub for quite some time, but I cant find
it in Western-Europe mainland (where I can pay by bank transaction).
Does anyone know where in Western-Europe i can buy this hub?
Regards,
Joop.
___
Openmoko community
Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
this is no fix... yes it consumes less globally than with the constant
reconnecting,
but a ton of c4 is also less harmful than an nuclear bomb
doesn't mean we have to be happy with a ton of c4 in our pocket...
It's better than without the fix so this
The goal of the optimization team was getting us a workable phone. I've
installed the testing version yesterday and run into a lot of issues (echo,
buzz, not able to wake up)
I love the idea of this phone, the openness, the capabilities, but my
patience has been stretched beyond tolerance. I have
Hi,
English is not my primary language and that's the reason, I think, for
some people that replied to my message, totally missing the point of
it.
I support the Openmoko initiative as much as everyone in this
community, that's why I bought a Neo Freerunner and that's why I
contributed with a
On Wednesday 10 December 2008, Clemens Dörrhöfer wrote:
Marcel wrote:
Am Wednesday 10 December 2008 21:23:06 schrieb Clemens Dörrhöfer:
Is there any useful Information in the net, which tells me a little
something about the big mistery ALSA on openmoko? After installing the
pymixer I can
Will Siddall wrote:
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Timo Juhani Lindfors
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Heh, maybe I'm just being a bit debian centric here. I saw
libecore0 - Core abstraction layer for enlightenment DR 0.17
in debian experimental and thought that it can't be too established or
arne anka wrote:
sorry no offence but, i think it is because of the infacy of some users,
which can't hande information and start running around in circles
screaming fire, fire fire!.
sentences like these
dismissed, so there won't be weekly updates anymore. Further details
and reasons
Rui Castro wrote:
So, my idea with my first message was to try to encourage people from
the community (and from Openmoko too) to put a little effort to make
Android stable in the Freerunner so that Openmoko and the community
could benefict from having another alternative OS, in the SHORT term.
Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
the optimization team finished their work a few weeks ago, most people
were working on new tasks already.
Mmhmh... I was just thinking... What about the python-loader?
If I don't remember wrong, the optimization team had also the task of
creating a python loader to
RE 1024.
The optimization team was not working on 1024. there is one
dedicated engineer working on 1024 who specializes in this area. There
is some understanding but not certainty on the root cause which may be
related to the base station rather than the phone. I don't intend to
Probably best to send the requests directly to Joerg.
Vasco Névoa wrote:
I'd really like pictures with better focus and a little more light...
especially the last one, which is very blurred!
Citando Steve Mosher [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Sorry,
I pulled the old copy. See below
SOP
A list on the wiki of all severe problems and the end user details
would be great, especially for future reference. Some of the problems,
like Buzz, 1024 (recamp) seem to happen to some people and not others.
I never had the buzz problem, go figure.
1. problems: WSOD, recamp, Buzz, echo (
Is it will be possible to add an Openmoko logo to the look of the store page
in the near future? I am going to send an email to all my friends who may be
willing to spend $25 to support OM but not really buy the Freerunner. But
the current page is very generic looking and does not connect with
Hi Steve,
Please start the page on the wiki with your phone info and I (and hopefully
many others) will add there info there. I would start the page but not too
sure where to start it or if bots clear out orphan pages on the wiki.
Rakshat
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Steve Mosher [EMAIL
Hello everyone
Just another short update from opkg.org: http://www.opkg.org/posting_3.html
Now, it is possible to add a source code link to every package. Many users
asked for this feature, so I added it today.
Regards,
Tobias
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 01:02, David Reyes Samblas Martinez
[EMAIL
Are these Dbus signals? I am not familiar with the framework.
Thanks
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am Wednesday 10 December 2008 22:27:38 schrieb Atilla Filiz:
Is there any work towards using service commands(maybe i'm using the
wrong
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