Re: modulated data over GSM voice (was Re: Data over normal GSM call)

2008-04-15 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | While stating it being unlikely, I have no dout that it can be done, | given enough effort. But it requires a lot of work by somebody with Alright, that's all I was saying too. | lots of knowledge and

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-15 Thread Stefano Cavallari
On Monday 14 April 2008 21:00:34 Harald Welte wrote: On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:57:02PM -0500, Hans L wrote: [...] AFAIR, the DTMF key press is encoded and send over the Um (air) interface to the BTS/BSC/MSC and then in the end converted into actual audible sounds. Please see Page 22 of

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-14 Thread Gilles Casse
Hans L wrote: This thread gave me an idea which I haven't seen discussed before, though it's probably not useful for the situation the original poster had in mind. Although the transfer of audio data over cell phone audio is very lossy, there is at least one standard, proven way of

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-14 Thread Harald Welte
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 07:57:02PM -0500, Hans L wrote: Although the transfer of audio data over cell phone audio is very lossy, there is at least one standard, proven way of transferring data by phone: DTMF(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTMF). please note though, that if you send DTMF over

modulated data over GSM voice (was Re: Data over normal GSM call)

2008-04-14 Thread Harald Welte
Just to give you a summary judgement: Running any kind of voice-encoded data over a regular voice channel of a GSM phone is _extremely_ unlikely to work. There are a number of different codecs in use. Which codec is determined by the network. There is echo cancellation at potentially multiple

Re: modulated data over GSM voice (was Re: Data over normal GSM call)

2008-04-14 Thread Adrian-Ken Rueegsegger
Harald Welte wrote: Just to give you a summary judgement: Running any kind of voice-encoded data over a regular voice channel of a GSM phone is _extremely_ unlikely to work. There are a number of different codecs in use. Which codec is determined by the network. There is echo cancellation

Re: modulated data over GSM voice (was Re: Data over normal GSM call)

2008-04-14 Thread Ian Stirling
Harald Welte wrote: Just to give you a summary judgement: Running any kind of voice-encoded data over a regular voice channel of a GSM phone is _extremely_ unlikely to work. There are a number of different codecs in use. Which codec is determined by the network. There is echo cancellation at

Re: modulated data over GSM voice (was Re: Data over normal GSM call)

2008-04-14 Thread Harald Welte
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:15:06PM +0200, Adrian-Ken Rueegsegger wrote: Harald Welte wrote: Just to give you a summary judgement: Running any kind of voice-encoded data over a regular voice channel of a GSM phone is _extremely_ unlikely to work. There are a number of different codecs in

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-13 Thread Hans L
This thread gave me an idea which I haven't seen discussed before, though it's probably not useful for the situation the original poster had in mind. Although the transfer of audio data over cell phone audio is very lossy, there is at least one standard, proven way of transferring data by phone:

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-12 Thread joerg
Am Fr 11. April 2008 schrieb Stefan Misch: Hi, I just talked about this issue with a colleague who uses an HTC PDA with windows mobile. For the data connection he uses a dial-up connection as a modem. He doesn't have a data plan but a flat fee for voice calls into land lines. He says

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-12 Thread thomasg
That's not all, there are even more factors: Mic - A/D converter - Codec (depends on net and quality: up to 5 different codecs possible) - Radio - Air-Interface - Radio -Codec - Voice Quality Enhancer (VQE - who knows what this will do with your data, maybe just dropping it at all) - and the same

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-11 Thread Stefan Misch
Hi, I just talked about this issue with a colleague who uses an HTC PDA with windows mobile. For the data connection he uses a dial-up connection as a modem. He doesn't have a data plan but a flat fee for voice calls into land lines. He says he gets about up to 4K/s which is not much of

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-11 Thread Ian Stirling
Diego Fdez. Durán wrote: snip Can't you initiate a voice call between to FreeRunners and then use the mic and mixer devs to modulate the data as sound? Broadly yes. The problem is: A human making mobile - mobile call looks something like this. 1 microphone 2 analog-digital converter 3 GSM

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-10 Thread Harald Welte
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:22:10AM -0400, Dan Staley wrote: Does anyone know if it is legal (in the standard TOS) with providers (such as ATnT) to send data over a normal phone call? this is not possible, since regular voice calls for GSM are not bit-transparent, i.e. the voice signal is coded

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-10 Thread ramsesoriginal
By applying some sort of modulation (fm? am? psm?) it should be possible to transfere data over gsm, but on a much lower speed then through the data channel. On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:22:10AM -0400, Dan Staley wrote: Does

Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Dan Staley
Does anyone know if it is legal (in the standard TOS) with providers (such as ATnT) to send data over a normal phone call? I have plenty of cell minutes (not to mention free calls between certain numbers...) but I dont want to pay for a data planso I figure if I wanted to, I could just have

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Matt Manjos
I don't know about specific cases, but I think that cell phone companies are more concerned about people using VOIP over data over gsm voice calls. There was talk earlier about writing a fax program that uses incoming calls to receive faxes, and that GSM couldn't transmit decent faxes because of

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Mikko Rauhala
On ti, 2008-04-08 at 10:22 -0400, Dan Staley wrote: I have plenty of cell minutes (not to mention free calls between certain numbers...) but I dont want to pay for a data planso I figure if I wanted to, I could just have my phone call my computer and transfer data over the line. There has

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On ti, 2008-04-08 at 10:22 -0400, Dan Staley wrote: | I have plenty of cell minutes (not to mention free calls between certain | numbers...) but I dont want to pay for a data planso I figure if I |

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Mikko Rauhala
On ti, 2008-04-08 at 16:02 +0100, Andy Green wrote: I think you're right, but just a thought if you could issue ready-coded GSM codec frames, you can put the data direct in there for 1KBytes/sec Yeah, but you can't. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Tilman Baumann
Mikko Rauhala wrote: On ti, 2008-04-08 at 10:22 -0400, Dan Staley wrote: I have plenty of cell minutes (not to mention free calls between certain numbers...) but I dont want to pay for a data planso I figure if I wanted to, I could just have my phone call my computer and transfer data over

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Tilman Baumann
Tilman Baumann wrote: Maybe CSD is billed like a voice call. I never used it, but i don't remember any special charges for that. I dug deeper. Seems like this is true. But this raises the question if the Neo can do CSD. Probably it does, since the GSM module does not appear to be somehow

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Mikko Rauhala
On ti, 2008-04-08 at 17:16 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote: Maybe CSD is billed like a voice call. I never used it, but i don't remember any special charges for that. Doubtful for the US drop your pants and bend over, please carriers' minutes; I presume the original poster was in this situation

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On ti, 2008-04-08 at 16:02 +0100, Andy Green wrote: | I think you're right, but just a thought if you could issue ready-coded | GSM codec frames, you can put the data direct in there for 1KBytes/sec | |

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Tilman Baumann
Mikko Rauhala wrote: A quick glance finds mostly mentions of 1st gen analog mobiles having been used with modems, and notably At the same time, the speech oriented audio compression used in GSM actually meant that data rates using a traditional modem connected to the phone would have been even

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Diego Fdez . Durán
On Tue, April 8, 2008 18:02, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Andy Green writes: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On ti, 2008-04-08 at 16:02 +0100, Andy Green wrote: | I think you're right, but just a thought if you could issue ready-coded | GSM

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Joe Pfeiffer
Diego Fdez. Durán writes: On Tue, April 8, 2008 18:02, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Andy Green writes: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On ti, 2008-04-08 at 16:02 +0100, Andy Green wrote: | I think you're right, but just a thought if you could

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread joerg
Am Di 8. April 2008 schrieb Tilman Baumann: Tilman Baumann wrote: Maybe CSD is billed like a voice call. I never used it, but i don't remember any special charges for that. I dug deeper. Seems like this is true. But this raises the question if the Neo can do CSD. Probably it does,

Re: Data over normal GSM call

2008-04-08 Thread Andy Green
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Diego Fdez. Durán writes: | On Tue, April 8, 2008 18:02, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: | Andy Green writes: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | Somebody in the thread at some point said: | | On ti,