Re: Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-25 Thread urodelo

+1

On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 01:15:34 +0200, Adrien Dorsaz   
wrote:



Great job for your website !

I think, it could be good too to have a different page on GD shop for
the wish lists : https://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04

The actual page has a lot of informations which can be found in the
GTA04 documentation already pointed by the new website proposal.

So I want to suggest to point the new website on a similar shop web
page, but one without so much informations and with the four wish lists
(GTA04, CaseKit, Camera, Battery). The actual informations could be
replaced by links on the gta04 wiki to give a better view of the wish
lists.

I understand that to sell some product it's important to clearly explain
what is inside the product, that's why I want to keep actual page for
the shop and I suggest to add another one simplified for the wish list.

So, with two different page, we can modify actual new web site
"interested" box by having two links :
  * "I want one !" : link to the actual detailed page
  * "Show your interest !" : link to the wish lists page

Regards,
Adrien

PS : on both web page, they'll be the same wish list, the new one will
be to just simplify the access to the wish lists.




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Re: Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-25 Thread Lukas Märdian
Am 25.08.2013 14:40, schrieb Adolf Winterer:
> Therefore I suggest that once the web site is up and running contact is 
> made with organizations like FSFE [1],  EFF [2], FoeBuD [3] or CCC [4]. 
> Especially FSFE with their "free your android" campaign [5] are aware of 
> the openness issues. The idea is to ask for links from their pages back 
> to our site.

Yes this is a good idea. I've already talked to the "free your android"
guys from FSFE at the last LinuxTag in Berlin and they seemed to be
interested in our project (whereas for the US FSF, trying to be as free
as possible is not free enough).

Later on they actually placed a link from their "Free your Android"
campaign to the GTA04 project:
  https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/

Regards,
  Lukas



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Re: Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-25 Thread Adolf Winterer

Hi everyone,

yes, we need to broaden the base. The more people know of this project, 
the more likely it will be that units get ordered.

(Still) being an extreme niche product it is important to use contacts 
that can be expected to be aware of the need for freedom of hard- and 
software.

Therefore I suggest that once the web site is up and running contact is 
made with organizations like FSFE [1],  EFF [2], FoeBuD [3] or CCC [4]. 
Especially FSFE with their "free your android" campaign [5] are aware of 
the openness issues. The idea is to ask for links from their pages back 
to our site.

Links:
1 http://fsfe.org/
2 https://www.eff.org/
3 https://www.foebud.org/
4 http://www.ccc.de/
5 https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/

Additionally the phone needs to be available as a complete unit, at the 
very least, optionally. It does not help to have a naked board if you 
want to use the phone for everyday use. Think of the Raspberry Pi: You 
can order the naked board, but also have it with a case.

In my opinion it is still a bit early to try getting it to the 
mainstream media. It would create false hopes or expectations and cause 
negative reports.

Kind Regards,
Adolf

P.S.: I have been following the project from the very beginning with 
OpenMoko (FIC) through all highs and lows until now. I'd like to have a 
unit, but it definitely needs to be a complete unit suitable for 
everyday use. Throughout all the time I have never seen that this stage 
has been reached (PCB, GPS, discharging batteries, power management 
issues ...). Therefore I'm still waiting patiently.


Am Samstag, 24. August 2013, 18:11:59 schrieb Lukas Märdian:
> Am 24.08.2013 17:36, schrieb Sebastian Krzyszkowiak:
> > I've also created quick draft by myself:
> > http://dosowisko.net/gta04/

This is really neat! Thank you for your effort.

> Hi Sebastian,
> 
> just three words: This looks awesome!
> 
> I think "About" and "Features" should be linked to some overview
> information/specs in the same page design, whereas "Documentation"
> should link to the GTA04 User Manual
> (http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/page/Manual/) and "For
> developers" should link to the GTA04 wiki
> (http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/).
> 
> This way people can get attracted by a nice looking, modern Homepage
> and get a rough overview of what we want to supply and interested
> people can dig deeper into the (really great) User Manual or search
> the wiki for special topics.
> 
> Regards,
>   Lukas


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Re: [Community] Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-24 Thread Adrien Dorsaz
Great job for your website !

I think, it could be good too to have a different page on GD shop for
the wish lists : https://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04

The actual page has a lot of informations which can be found in the
GTA04 documentation already pointed by the new website proposal.

So I want to suggest to point the new website on a similar shop web
page, but one without so much informations and with the four wish lists
(GTA04, CaseKit, Camera, Battery). The actual informations could be
replaced by links on the gta04 wiki to give a better view of the wish
lists.

I understand that to sell some product it's important to clearly explain
what is inside the product, that's why I want to keep actual page for
the shop and I suggest to add another one simplified for the wish list.

So, with two different page, we can modify actual new web site
"interested" box by having two links :
  * "I want one !" : link to the actual detailed page
  * "Show your interest !" : link to the wish lists page

Regards,
Adrien

PS : on both web page, they'll be the same wish list, the new one will
be to just simplify the access to the wish lists.



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Re: Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-24 Thread Sebastian Reinhardt

Am 24.08.2013 21:36, schrieb Sebastian Krzyszkowiak:

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
 wrote:

Am 24.08.2013 um 18:11 schrieb Lukas Märdian:


Am 24.08.2013 17:36, schrieb Sebastian Krzyszkowiak:

I've also created quick draft by myself: http://dosowisko.net/gta04/

Wow, that looks good! Almost like a kickstarter project page :)



If can, I vote for this one to become the new website for GTA04.
The first impression is the most importent one! This site is presenting 
only few facts. If the visitor is interested in, it should be possible 
to find appropriate links to more details!
The actual GTA04 pages can be a little bit confusing for first time 
visitors. Maybe this new site is a good starting point to reanimate 
marketing/ publicity I hope so...


--
Regards

Sebastian Reinhardt


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Re: Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-24 Thread Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
 wrote:
>
> Am 24.08.2013 um 18:11 schrieb Lukas Märdian:
>
>> Am 24.08.2013 17:36, schrieb Sebastian Krzyszkowiak:
>>> I've also created quick draft by myself: http://dosowisko.net/gta04/
>
> Wow, that looks good! Almost like a kickstarter project page :)

Thanks :)

BTW, I'm constantly updating it with some details. If some of you
checked it out early, you might want to do it again. I replaced some
styles from default theme with customized ones (color of buttons
etc.), added links and other stuff like that.

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 7:38 PM, Nick  wrote:
> I'm not sure about the text about ethics of manufacturing - while it
> is assembled in Germany, the components are sourced from factories
> with potentially similar working conditions to other phones, they
> use materials that are sourced in horrible ways and conditions, and
> so on.

I'm aware of that and I think it's still worth mentioning. Of course
we're using parts manufactured in a way we don't have control, but
this way we can go too deep. You know, Goldelico and factory workers
may use gasoline that was extracted in bad ways to get themselves to
work ;) But at least we can ensure that what we do and what we can
control is done in ethically proper way. And that's something we can
be proud of (or, actually, Golden Delicious, as that's their
achievement ;)).

I'm more worried about suggestions for buying and ordering over the
page. We should think about describing our situation (you know, train
waiting for green lights ;)) in a way that will be informative and
true, but at the same time won't scary people ("ouch, another preorder
fraud, nothing to see here"). I have some fancy slider in mind that
would show estimated price depending on demand, but I'm open for
different ideas.

And one more thing: I'd be very grateful if some native speaker would
check what I wrote on the page. I'm not confident enough about my
English skills - they might be good enough for communication, but
probably not for marketing purposes :)

-- 
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak, dos
http://dosowisko.net/

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Re: Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-24 Thread Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller

Am 24.08.2013 um 18:11 schrieb Lukas Märdian:

> Am 24.08.2013 17:36, schrieb Sebastian Krzyszkowiak:
>> I've also created quick draft by myself: http://dosowisko.net/gta04/

Wow, that looks good! Almost like a kickstarter project page :)

BR,
Nikolaus


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Re: Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-24 Thread Nick
Hi Sebastian,

Just a quick reply as I must dash.

Your draft design looks great, I really like it.

I'm not sure about the text about ethics of manufacturing - while it 
is assembled in Germany, the components are sourced from factories 
with potentially similar working conditions to other phones, they 
use materials that are sourced in horrible ways and conditions, and 
so on.

There has been some discussion here in the past about how we as a 
community absolutely don't have the leverage with suppliers (at 
least unless we were to grow a lot), so unfortunately I don't think 
this can change soon.

But this does look great - good work!

Nick

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Re: Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-24 Thread Lukas Märdian
Am 24.08.2013 17:36, schrieb Sebastian Krzyszkowiak:
> I've also created quick draft by myself: http://dosowisko.net/gta04/

Hi Sebastian,

just three words: This looks awesome!

I think "About" and "Features" should be linked to some overview
information/specs in the same page design, whereas "Documentation"
should link to the GTA04 User Manual
(http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/page/Manual/) and "For
developers" should link to the GTA04 wiki
(http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/).

This way people can get attracted by a nice looking, modern Homepage and
get a rough overview of what we want to supply and interested people can
dig deeper into the (really great) User Manual or search the wiki for
special topics.

Regards,
  Lukas



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Going outside - GTA04 website

2013-08-24 Thread Sebastian Krzyszkowiak
Hello, community!

I'd like to start discussion about how we communicate our presence to
the external world. Recent threads showed that there's some need to
think about it.

I know this community consists rather of smart, technical geeks who
don't want to lower themselves into stinky marketing world. I truly
understand that :)

But unfortunately, we need money and it's now clear that this small
community is not enough to get each of our dreams to come true.

I'd like to start this discussion with GTA04 website. While I
appreciate current webpage for being very informative for someone who
already know what's going on in this project, I think it sucks as our
"business card".

When this page is the first thing someone new sees about GTA04, he or
she we'll be confused and probably won't understand a lot. Even if
he/she is not our target, it's bad, because if she/he has at least
some impression about what this project is about, he/she can recommend
it to some geeky friend or use it as some small talk topic.

On the other hand, we cannot oversimplify our page. We were always
targeting to people with some technical background, who generally
prefer to get straight to the point instead of going through tons of
advertising eye-candy bullshit.

I've seen website proposition from Slyon: http://slyon.de/gta04/index.old.php
I've also created quick draft by myself: http://dosowisko.net/gta04/
And of course there's the current one: http://gta04.org/

I'd like all of you to point out good and bad parts of each of them,
so maybe we'll be able to create something that's rock solid for our
needs.

Keep in mind that my proposition is just a quick draft, it even uses
default Bootstrap theme which we probably would like to adjust a bit
to our needs (branding colors, some mentions about Golden Delicious
and stuff like that). Content is not final too - there are probably
some grammar errors and maybe even some misinformation (I wasn't
really active in community for some time recently, so it's possible
that I missed something). Maybe some things aren't even worth
mentioning and there should be something else instead - go on with
suggestions, it's nowhere near final now.

And well, maybe even we'll decide that there's no point in trying to
get more people into GTA04 now. Maybe redesigning it to fit N900 case
will get popular in the community and it'll be better idea to start
"campaign" together with this "new phone". Or some other idea will
come up.

I trust this community. I'm still using my Freerunner, but
unfortunately I'm more and more tired with it. I decided to start
saving for some new phone and I want it to be OpenPhoenux device, be
it GTA04 or anything new. Please, don't let this awesome project die!
I'm still convinced that we can succeed. Would you like to try helping
me help you help us all? :)

-- 
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak, dos
http://dosowisko.net/

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