Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hello. On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 13:07, Stefan Schmidt wrote: On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 17:10, Onen wrote: Stefan Schmidt wrote: For what I have understood, you would prefer a SCM. And now that first release is out, the first point on my TODO list was exactly that. You will find a git tree at: http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition;a=tree I have two question about this: * is it good enough as it is for you? SCM or tarballs are both fine with me. Depending on how often you do releases I would then decide If the SCM or the release tarball makes more sense. * is there anything I could do to ease your work of pushing to OE (structure, names, ...)? I'll will look into preparing a recipe for it today or tomorrow and will let you know if I run into problems that are better solved on your side. Just finished a recipe for it. It was rather ugly to make sure every file installs at the right place. I would be glad if you would consider using distutils for one of the upcoming releases. Anyway, I pushed it into OE and the autobuilder should pick it up in the next hours which makes it available in the feed for MS5. Let me know if there are problems. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, Stefan Schmidt wrote: I'll will look into preparing a recipe for it today or tomorrow and will let you know if I run into problems that are better solved on your side. Just finished a recipe for it. It was rather ugly to make sure every file installs at the right place. Ugly? Do you mean I put the files at the wrong places? If so (or sth else) please let me know what I should do to improve this. I would be glad if you would consider using distutils for one of the upcoming releases. Sure. I will do so. Anyway, I pushed it into OE and the autobuilder should pick it up in the next hours which makes it available in the feed for MS5. Let me know if there are problems. That's fantastic! I really appreciate your help on this, thanks! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hello. On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 23:33, Onen wrote: Stefan Schmidt wrote: I'll will look into preparing a recipe for it today or tomorrow and will let you know if I run into problems that are better solved on your side. Just finished a recipe for it. It was rather ugly to make sure every file installs at the right place. Ugly? Do you mean I put the files at the wrong places? If so (or sth else) please let me know what I should do to improve this. No worries, once you use distutils it will take care about installing them at the right place and I can use this in the recipe. Until then this solution should work fine. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, Stefan Schmidt wrote: It is Python based, so the files in the package are the source file. Yep, I'm aware of that. You will find in the package everything needed: source code, desktop file, images, glade file, authors, licenses, etc... Yep, this is also known. It's not the first software I bring into OE which then builds such ipk's :) Don't get me wrong. I know you have much deeper knowledge than I have in Python, ipk, and OE. I must admit that as I was writing the answer, I was thinking: that cannot be what he wants from me, I must be missing his point. I meant no offence. Let me explain my point a bit more. You are writing the software and releasing a new version when you think new features are implemented or bugs are fixed. In the FOSS world is is normally done as atarball that includes all the source files ready to build. Now python has nothing that needs compiling but it still needs to get packaged in a way that makes it easy for user to install it. You have done this yourself when preparing your ipk. Ok. I thought the ipk would be sufficient. Now I understand what you were expecting. But this package may need adjustment from time to time when other parts of the system change so it is always good to build it together with the rest of an image and have it in the so called feeds where the user can easily install it over the package management. That's what I like to do for you. You have more or less the same setup as the cellhunter game: Python scripts, desktop file, icon, etc. Sure I know how much better it is to have the software in the feeds. And I thank you for helping me with this! I just packaged this and Sebastian provides an tarball with all the files flat in the dir with package name and version and OE takes care of the rest. If you need a tarball, I will try to put something together out of my freerunner tomorrow. Hmm, you have no kind of version control? Let me say you that this is a bad habbit. Learned my lesson. :/ I did not have a public one. I wanted to have something sufficient, clean and stable enough, before going public. But I was away from my computer for some days, and only had access to my freerunner or the ipk on the website. Back to the point. Yes, I would need a tarball, or a public available SCM. For a tarball please use something like this as name: For what I have understood, you would prefer a SCM. And now that first release is out, the first point on my TODO list was exactly that. You will find a git tree at: http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition;a=tree I have two question about this: * is it good enough as it is for you? * is there anything I could do to ease your work of pushing to OE (structure, names, ...)? When this will be validated by you, I will tag it 0.1.0. In case of, I also updated the download area of SF, with the tar.gz file: https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065package_id=310952 $applicationname-0.3.0.tar.gz Which then should contain a directory with the same name but without file ending: $applicationname-0.3.0 Inside this dir just put your files and I take care that they are installed properly within the ipk. regards Stefan Schmidt Thanks again for helping! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
onen...@free.fr wrote: For the moment our position is: We log the cell ids we get connected to. We do not log the neighbour cells. The reason is: if we are far from the cells, we will (maybe, this needs experimentation to my point of view) see the cells even very far. I fear that it would stretch the areas, and thus decrease the precision, nullifying the benefit of recording those additional cells. But, my idea, is to use the neighbour cells, to detect the overlapping region among areas of cells I currently see, to improve the precision. Any comments? You want to find minimum areas for the cells? If so, log neighbour cells but log them as neighbour only . When you compute a cells coverage, only use the points where that cell is primary. Unless the cell only exists as a neighbour in the database. In that case, it provides an approximate position until someone finds its true location. If you try to find position by gsm, then assume you are somewhere inside the area of the primary cell. Then, look at what neighbours you see. If most neighbours detected are on one side of the cell, then assume you are on that edge of the cell. If you see neighbours all around, then you are in the middle. Take special care when there are no neigbours on one side, such as on the coast. Lack of neighbours to one side obviously don't mean you are on the other edge of the cell. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hello. On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 20:00, Stefan Schmidt wrote: First problem. Where can I find the source code? Something like a tarball with the version number in the name or a source code management system would be best. It seems I'm only able to download the ipk but not the files it was build from. Did I miss something? It is Python based, so the files in the package are the source file. Yep, I'm aware of that. You will find in the package everything needed: source code, desktop file, images, glade file, authors, licenses, etc... Yep, this is also known. It's not the first software I bring into OE which then builds such ipk's :) Let me explain my point a bit more. You are writing the software and releasing a new version when you think new features are implemented or bugs are fixed. In the FOSS world is is normally done as atarball that includes all the source files ready to build. Now python has nothing that needs compiling but it still needs to get packaged in a way that makes it easy for user to install it. You have done this yourself when preparing your ipk. But this package may need adjustment from time to time when other parts of the system change so it is always good to build it together with the rest of an image and have it in the so called feeds where the user can easily install it over the package management. That's what I like to do for you. You have more or less the same setup as the cellhunter game: Python scripts, desktop file, icon, etc. I just packaged this and Sebastian provides an tarball with all the files flat in the dir with package name and version and OE takes care of the rest. If you need a tarball, I will try to put something together out of my freerunner tomorrow. Hmm, you have no kind of version control? Let me say you that this is a bad habbit. Learned my lesson. :/ Back to the point. Yes, I would need a tarball, or a public available SCM. For a tarball please use something like this as name: $applicationname-0.3.0.tar.gz Which then should contain a directory with the same name but without file ending: $applicationname-0.3.0 Inside this dir just put your files and I take care that they are installed properly within the ipk. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hello. On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 20:00, Stefan Schmidt wrote: On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 19:23, Onen wrote: I don't have a recipe. Nothing comes to my mind about something special for building it. It was working with python 2.5 under FSO M4.1. The package puts the file now under 2.6 python directories, under FSO M5. I only have forgotten one dependency in the package description: the framework! Will have a look at it over the weekend. First problem. Where can I find the source code? Something like a tarball with the version number in the name or a source code management system would be best. It seems I'm only able to download the ipk but not the files it was build from. Did I miss something? regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Olivier Migeot wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: There are many creative commons licenses, some are permit commercial use, some don't. If you go one click further, you'd discover that the said Creative Commons licence chosed by OpenCellID is : http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Please please forgive me if I'm wrong. I put my hand up and say I am not an expert in this area and COULD BE WRONG. opencellid has A LOT of data for the UK. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if this was all the towers. Due to a load of people being scared of phone masts and radiation etc, the uk body in charge of radio stuff etc. OFCOM, made available on this website: http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/ pretty much all the locations of all the cell towers... I'm not sure how that information is licenced.. I have seen discussions about this before I think but I can't remember where... it could have been OSM related. Obviously the issue would be opencellid integrating unclearls licenced data. Before you reply: STOP. As I said before, I may well be wrong! Happy Hacking, Tim -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
yeah http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexnl1.html has the same for belgium I e-mailed them already twice about the licences, they did not respond :( y On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Tim Dobson li...@tdobson.net wrote: Olivier Migeot wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: There are many creative commons licenses, some are permit commercial use, some don't. If you go one click further, you'd discover that the said Creative Commons licence chosed by OpenCellID is : http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Please please forgive me if I'm wrong. I put my hand up and say I am not an expert in this area and COULD BE WRONG. opencellid has A LOT of data for the UK. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if this was all the towers. Due to a load of people being scared of phone masts and radiation etc, the uk body in charge of radio stuff etc. OFCOM, made available on this website: http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/ pretty much all the locations of all the cell towers... I'm not sure how that information is licenced.. I have seen discussions about this before I think but I can't remember where... it could have been OSM related. Obviously the issue would be opencellid integrating unclearls licenced data. Before you reply: STOP. As I said before, I may well be wrong! Happy Hacking, Tim -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, Why setting up your own database, while opencellid has TotalCells:106120 acording to http://www.opencellid.org/cell/stats ? I think using there database will concentrate the data in on place and will give you a better coverage. Kind regards, @ On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 09:54 +0100, Onen wrote: Hi everyone, the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. As mentioned on the main page openBmap is a free and open map of wireless communicating objects (e.g. cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth). It provides tools to mutualize data, create and access this map. At this time, only cellular networks are concerned. All the software code is AGPL v3 and data are Creative Commons License (creative commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported), thus the data is free to use (in the same way as OpenStreetMap). Map status (last update 2009-02-06 03:30:31) Cellular: 6 countries, 9 mobile networks, 313 location area codes, 8905 cells This could be used for: * locate you on a map. You don't need to turn GPS on. And as your GSM is always on, and the database is located on your phone, it is instantaneous. This prevent your battery and your privacy (don't need to send your GSM data to anyone on the Web). * provide rough location (the GSM gives less precise result as GPS) to the GPS, in order to speed up first time to fix. * ... The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. If you want to get located through your GSM data, at the moment you can use the Web API [3]. There is a Web interface [4] available to use this API and display zones on a map. We hope many will upload! Privacy note: when you upload, exactly as with OSM, your logs allow to know where and when you were. You have been warned ;-) ! I copy/paste the README of the package at the end of this email. Onen [1] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065 [3] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/openbmap_api.php [4] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/cell_map.php README: openBmap logger version 0.1 What you should expect: * generation of logs * upload of logs Manual: Interface is straightforward. * A button to start generating logs. Values will be displayed when valid. Logs are stored under HOME/.openBmap/Logs by default. * A button to stop generating logs. Note that at the moment, the GSM part gets updated only after receiving an asynchronous update from the network. This means at start time, it is normal the GSM part does not display GSM information, even if you are registered to network. * A button to upload. This will block the interface until every log has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of the upload part. After succesfull upload, the logs are moved to HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default. Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr website, and fill the login/password in the configuration file before upload works. * A button to exit. Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap directory by default. Known bugs: * when you are generating logs, and you press 'Stop' button. A popup window let you know you should wait for the logger to finish stopping. Under FSO M5, if you press the power button, the phone suspends. You press it again it wakes up. Nevertheless the GUI is frozen. You will have to kill the process. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, this has already been discussed in this thread on the devel list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004064.html What happens is that the license of data in the opencellid database is not clearly stated. People from openmoko has tried to contact them. We have tried two times over three months time to contact them also. We have no answer so far. No license does mean: you cannot use it at all, because you do not have any idea of your rights over it. Hope this answer your question. Onen Quoting Ed Kapitein e...@kapitein.org: Hi, Why setting up your own database, while opencellid has TotalCells:106120 acording to http://www.opencellid.org/cell/stats ? I think using there database will concentrate the data in on place and will give you a better coverage. Kind regards, @ On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 09:54 +0100, Onen wrote: Hi everyone, the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. As mentioned on the main page openBmap is a free and open map of wireless communicating objects (e.g. cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth). It provides tools to mutualize data, create and access this map. At this time, only cellular networks are concerned. All the software code is AGPL v3 and data are Creative Commons License (creative commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported), thus the data is free to use (in the same way as OpenStreetMap). Map status (last update 2009-02-06 03:30:31) Cellular: 6 countries, 9 mobile networks, 313 location area codes, 8905 cells This could be used for: * locate you on a map. You don't need to turn GPS on. And as your GSM is always on, and the database is located on your phone, it is instantaneous. This prevent your battery and your privacy (don't need to send your GSM data to anyone on the Web). * provide rough location (the GSM gives less precise result as GPS) to the GPS, in order to speed up first time to fix. * ... The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. If you want to get located through your GSM data, at the moment you can use the Web API [3]. There is a Web interface [4] available to use this API and display zones on a map. We hope many will upload! Privacy note: when you upload, exactly as with OSM, your logs allow to know where and when you were. You have been warned ;-) ! I copy/paste the README of the package at the end of this email. Onen [1] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065 [3] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/openbmap_api.php [4] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/cell_map.php README: openBmap logger version 0.1 What you should expect: * generation of logs * upload of logs Manual: Interface is straightforward. * A button to start generating logs. Values will be displayed when valid. Logs are stored under HOME/.openBmap/Logs by default. * A button to stop generating logs. Note that at the moment, the GSM part gets updated only after receiving an asynchronous update from the network. This means at start time, it is normal the GSM part does not display GSM information, even if you are registered to network. * A button to upload. This will block the interface until every log has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of the upload part. After succesfull upload, the logs are moved to HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default. Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr website, and fill the login/password in the configuration file before upload works. * A button to exit. Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap directory by default. Known bugs: * when you are generating logs, and you press 'Stop' button. A popup window let you know you should wait for the logger to finish stopping. Under FSO M5, if you press the power button, the phone suspends. You press it again it wakes up. Nevertheless the GUI is frozen. You will have to kill the process. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:36 AM, onen...@free.fr wrote: What happens is that the license of data in the opencellid database is not clearly stated. People from openmoko has tried to contact them. We have tried two times over three months time to contact them also. We have no answer so far. No license does mean: you cannot use it at all, because you do not have any idea of your rights over it. Hope this answer your question. Then what does the mention (opencellid.org data are being merged in openBmap.org data) at the bottom of the main page means? (yet another rant : why don't you offer an OSM-based map beside Google's?) -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Well, on the frontpage, bottom line it says: The data are available under the Creative Common license. Is that enough, or do you need more info about the details of that license? Kind regards, Ed On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 11:36 +0100, onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, this has already been discussed in this thread on the devel list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004064.html What happens is that the license of data in the opencellid database is not clearly stated. People from openmoko has tried to contact them. We have tried two times over three months time to contact them also. We have no answer so far. No license does mean: you cannot use it at all, because you do not have any idea of your rights over it. Hope this answer your question. Onen Quoting Ed Kapitein e...@kapitein.org: Hi, Why setting up your own database, while opencellid has TotalCells:106120 acording to http://www.opencellid.org/cell/stats ? I think using there database will concentrate the data in on place and will give you a better coverage. Kind regards, @ On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 09:54 +0100, Onen wrote: Hi everyone, the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. As mentioned on the main page openBmap is a free and open map of wireless communicating objects (e.g. cellular antenna, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth). It provides tools to mutualize data, create and access this map. At this time, only cellular networks are concerned. All the software code is AGPL v3 and data are Creative Commons License (creative commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported), thus the data is free to use (in the same way as OpenStreetMap). Map status (last update 2009-02-06 03:30:31) Cellular: 6 countries, 9 mobile networks, 313 location area codes, 8905 cells This could be used for: * locate you on a map. You don't need to turn GPS on. And as your GSM is always on, and the database is located on your phone, it is instantaneous. This prevent your battery and your privacy (don't need to send your GSM data to anyone on the Web). * provide rough location (the GSM gives less precise result as GPS) to the GPS, in order to speed up first time to fix. * ... The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. If you want to get located through your GSM data, at the moment you can use the Web API [3]. There is a Web interface [4] available to use this API and display zones on a map. We hope many will upload! Privacy note: when you upload, exactly as with OSM, your logs allow to know where and when you were. You have been warned ;-) ! I copy/paste the README of the package at the end of this email. Onen [1] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/ [2] http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=218065 [3] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/api/openbmap_api.php [4] http://realtimeblog.free.fr/cell_map.php README: openBmap logger version 0.1 What you should expect: * generation of logs * upload of logs Manual: Interface is straightforward. * A button to start generating logs. Values will be displayed when valid. Logs are stored under HOME/.openBmap/Logs by default. * A button to stop generating logs. Note that at the moment, the GSM part gets updated only after receiving an asynchronous update from the network. This means at start time, it is normal the GSM part does not display GSM information, even if you are registered to network. * A button to upload. This will block the interface until every log has been uploaded. This means that if you do not have Internet connection up and running, the GUI will be frozen until timeout of the upload part. After succesfull upload, the logs are moved to HOME/.openBmap/Processed_logs by default. Warning: you should create an account on realtimeblog.free.fr website, and fill the login/password in the configuration file before upload works. * A button to exit. Config file and application log are located under HOME/.openBmap directory by default. Known bugs: * when you are generating logs, and you press 'Stop' button. A popup window let you know you should wait for the logger to finish stopping. Under FSO M5, if you press the power button, the phone suspends. You press it again it wakes up. Nevertheless the GUI is frozen. You will have to kill the process. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Ed Kapitein e...@kapitein.org writes: Well, on the frontpage, bottom line it says: The data are available under the Creative Common license. Is that enough, or do you need more info about the details of that license? There are many creative commons licenses, some are permit commercial use, some don't. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: There are many creative commons licenses, some are permit commercial use, some don't. If you go one click further, you'd discover that the said Creative Commons licence chosed by OpenCellID is : http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Thanks. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, here is the post of the thread I pointed out earlier explaining why this is not clear at all, and why we have tried to reach the people behind opencellid.org (without any success). http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004161.html quote The logo is placed next to the copyright for the website, so it could also stand for the license of the website... end of quote This dates back to January. Now to my understanding, the sentence (which is new to me): The data are available under the Creative Common license. which points to http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ lets me think it is now ok. Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: There are many creative commons licenses, some are permit commercial use, some don't. If you go one click further, you'd discover that the said Creative Commons licence chosed by OpenCellID is : http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Thanks. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
excuse me for the spam, but just thought of something else: do you guys also log information about neighbouring cells, like cellhunter does? this might also be interesting when you have gps coordinates the accuracy of the neighbouring cells are much lower ofcourse, but could also provide some very usefull info y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hi, I had a look, but did not find a way to download the data? And what is the license? The whole point to me, is to have data with a license which lets me download it, and use it directly on my phone. I don't want to send my GSM coordinate to any third party on the Web to get my GPS position. It is a matter of privacy. Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
I have discovered this project as I was cleaning up my code for release. At first glance, the differences are: * It sends direct AT commands to the modem, and parse the responses. openBmap relies on freesmartphone.org * So far they only collect data. We already have the Web API available to use the data to get located. Nick has already done a lot of work to create the GSM coverage areas out of the raw datas. But now that I have released my work, I will get in touch with the people at cellhunter to see if we could cooperate. Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance Sure I can, I'll try to send something within next days. But it's all very lame, like writing current cellid/lac and lat/lon in a text file. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:31 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, I had a look, but did not find a way to download the data? And what is the license? You mean data from opencellid? I guess the raw data link in their menu doesn't fit? Or try there http://myapp.fr/cellsIdData/ -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
For the moment our position is: We log the cell ids we get connected to. We do not log the neighbour cells. The reason is: if we are far from the cells, we will (maybe, this needs experimentation to my point of view) see the cells even very far. I fear that it would stretch the areas, and thus decrease the precision, nullifying the benefit of recording those additional cells. But, my idea, is to use the neighbour cells, to detect the overlapping region among areas of cells I currently see, to improve the precision. Any comments? Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: excuse me for the spam, but just thought of something else: do you guys also log information about neighbouring cells, like cellhunter does? this might also be interesting when you have gps coordinates the accuracy of the neighbouring cells are much lower ofcourse, but could also provide some very usefull info y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:42 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: Any comments? That's the current position of my script too. But I wanted to log both the current cell and the respective levels of the neighbour cells. That way, I could try (with a lt of data) to guess the actual localization of the tower. Though that part only makes sense in my own business, and not necessarily in the general geolocation by GSM data-thing. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
No. If you look correctly at my response, I was responding to the message from Yorick, about http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:31 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, I had a look, but did not find a way to download the data? And what is the license? You mean data from opencellid? I guess the raw data link in their menu doesn't fit? Or try there http://myapp.fr/cellsIdData/ -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
isn't more data always preferable? you could still decide not to use them... cells that we are connected to would recieve a higher precision off course, but if I walk five times around in a city, and I never get connected to a certain cell, but I know a lot of points where that cell is in range, and a lot of points where it isn't? I don't find it impossible that one could distill some information from this. And even a precision of 30km or more helps the assisted gps from ublox; so neighbouring cells can certainly be of some help, don't you agree? y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:42 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: For the moment our position is: We log the cell ids we get connected to. We do not log the neighbour cells. The reason is: if we are far from the cells, we will (maybe, this needs experimentation to my point of view) see the cells even very far. I fear that it would stretch the areas, and thus decrease the precision, nullifying the benefit of recording those additional cells. But, my idea, is to use the neighbour cells, to detect the overlapping region among areas of cells I currently see, to improve the precision. Any comments? Onen Quoting Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com: excuse me for the spam, but just thought of something else: do you guys also log information about neighbouring cells, like cellhunter does? this might also be interesting when you have gps coordinates the accuracy of the neighbouring cells are much lower ofcourse, but could also provide some very usefull info y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: And are you guys aware of cellhunter? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CellHunter http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/ you could work together, and maybe also incorporate the game concept for those interested y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this can help a bit: http://www.sites.bipt.be/indexfr1.html (click on the first blue link) it wil display a map of belgium, with all cell towers (already built and those with a building permission) if you click on a dot, you can get a pdf with information about who owns the tower, where it it placed, how many antenna's are on it and a lot of other irrelevant data too bad that as far as i can see the cellID is not included in the documentation :( y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM, kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, you said So it should be ok for openbmap guys. That could explain the thing about merging both databases. Any official insight on this? I've been collecting cell information for a few weeks, with some home-made script, and I'd like to know where I should commit them to. Could you please make a wiki page and put + explain your script for doing that ? I think we can go very fast if anyone can use them (thinking about how openstreetmap extends..) Thanks in advance ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
If you are interested in getting the position of the cells, this point was discussed in the thread I pointed out earlier in this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-January/004064.html Maybe this can help you with your work. Onen Quoting Olivier Migeot larry...@gmail.com: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:42 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: Any comments? That's the current position of my script too. But I wanted to log both the current cell and the respective levels of the neighbour cells. That way, I could try (with a lt of data) to guess the actual localization of the tower. Though that part only makes sense in my own business, and not necessarily in the general geolocation by GSM data-thing. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hello. On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 09:54, Onen wrote: the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. Awesome. Thanks for doing this. The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. Did you build this package by hand or with a recipe for OE? I ask because I would like to include it into OE and put it into the MS5 feed and perhaps also in the image for the next milestone. If you have an bitbake recipe that would make my life easier, if not just tell my if there is anythoing special I need to know for building it. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
hi, Yorick Moko wrote: isn't more data always preferable? you could still decide not to use them... cells that we are connected to would recieve a higher precision off course, Agreed. That is the point of view of Nick (from the project). Add a field to know if the log is a connected cell, or a neighbour one. On the phone the idea is to have the areas of the cells in a database. Not every GPS point uploaded to the raw database. But still, the raw database could grow up pretty fast. You should see with Nick, he takes care of the server side. but if I walk five times around in a city, and I never get connected to a certain cell, but I know a lot of points where that cell is in range, and a lot of points where it isn't? I don't find it impossible that one could distill some information from this. Probably. But again the database could grow quickly. But as stated in my previous email, I think we need to experiment with this, to see what works or not, and what takes not too much space. And even a precision of 30km or more helps the assisted gps from ublox; so neighbouring cells can certainly be of some help, don't you agree? I definitely think that using the neighbour cells to improve accuracy at locating time, will be much useful. What I wonder, is if to log them, increasing the amount of data, but stretching the areas related to them will bring us anything. y On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:42 PM, onen...@free.fr wrote: For the moment our position is: We log the cell ids we get connected to. We do not log the neighbour cells. The reason is: if we are far from the cells, we will (maybe, this needs experimentation to my point of view) see the cells even very far. I fear that it would stretch the areas, and thus decrease the precision, nullifying the benefit of recording those additional cells. But, my idea, is to use the neighbour cells, to detect the overlapping region among areas of cells I currently see, to improve the precision. Any comments? Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hello, Stefan Schmidt wrote: Hello. On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 09:54, Onen wrote: the openBmap team is happy to announce the first release of the openBmap [1] logger/uploader for freesmartphone.org. Awesome. Thanks for doing this. I think so too ;-) The package Freesmartphone.org client [2] provides you with a logger, and an uploader. It has been tested against FSO Milestones 5. Did you build this package by hand or with a recipe for OE? I ask because I would like to include it into OE and put it into the MS5 feed and perhaps also in the image for the next milestone. By hand. Thanks for helping! That would be awesome too! If you have an bitbake recipe that would make my life easier, if not just tell my if there is anythoing special I need to know for building it. I don't have a recipe. Nothing comes to my mind about something special for building it. It was working with python 2.5 under FSO M4.1. The package puts the file now under 2.6 python directories, under FSO M5. I only have forgotten one dependency in the package description: the framework! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [New software] openBmap logger (GSM positioning)
Hello. On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 19:23, Onen wrote: I don't have a recipe. Nothing comes to my mind about something special for building it. It was working with python 2.5 under FSO M4.1. The package puts the file now under 2.6 python directories, under FSO M5. I only have forgotten one dependency in the package description: the framework! Will have a look at it over the weekend. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
