Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
I am quite sure that there will be others who are longer in the business (like http://www.handheld-linux.com to name one I know very well) to resell the GTA02 from within Europe. But we must be aware that reselling needs some more margin for handling all these duties, tax, repacking, shipping, insurance issues (there are a lot of people involved who want to be paid for their services). So, the device will certainly cost more than 450 USD + shipment. But you get all issues solved. And there will be warranty. And more options for payment (e.g. Credit Card or bank transfer). And someone to directly talk to. Am 22.08.2007 um 21:19 schrieb David Pottage: Jean-Eric Cuendet (ML) wrote: Hi, It seems that a big problem we have here in Europe to get Openmoko devices is that the shiping costs are quite high: around 80-100USD !! I've opened a website that will sell GTA02 devices when they are available, to other Europe countries. I'll buy quantities of devices from FIC and resell them from here, in Switzerland, middle of Europe. I am interested, but I am concerned about VAT and import duty issues, as Switzerland is outside the European Union. I would feel much happier ordering from an importer inside the EU, as that way the importer would be responsible for sorting out and paying any import duties and taxes. The price I pay would include VAT at the prevailing rate in the importer's country. (So it would be better to ship from Belgium where it is low, rather than France where it is high). Unfortunately I don't get any of those advantages if buy from a retailer ouside the EU. I may save a small amount on shipping, but I would still have the headache of paying those taxes myself, and the posibily of paying a lot more than I expect if the customs officers misclassify the Neo 1973, or disagree with me on it's value. Payment will be possible through Paypal or direct postal payment in Switzerland. Shiping costs will be around 20-25EUR for countries in Europe. I *HATE* paypal, so in any case, if you can find another way of receiving payments that would be good. Regards -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
Le jeudi 23 août 2007 à 08:58 +0200, Daniel Spies a écrit : 450USD are better than 500+ USD, and I would prefer a shop where I could bring my phone to, if there are reasons for warranty usage. Daniel (previously known as [EMAIL PROTECTED]) the main issue here are the following : * using a courrier service for deliveries instead of the basic post office service does 2 things : * the courrier service charges you about 4 times as much for the same thing * using the courier service usually means you'll *always* pay various import taxes (sometimes with the postal service, you fall into cracks, which is always appreciated) * for some reason, the various import taxes will render the device (priced in USD) a lot more expensive. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
As a programmer, even *I* might be selling them, directly, from the factory .. j. On Aug 23, 2007, at 8:27 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I am quite sure that there will be others who are longer in the business (like http://www.handheld-linux.com to name one I know very well) to resell the GTA02 from within Europe. But we must be aware that reselling needs some more margin for handling all these duties, tax, repacking, shipping, insurance issues (there are a lot of people involved who want to be paid for their services). So, the device will certainly cost more than 450 USD + shipment. But you get all issues solved. And there will be warranty. And more options for payment (e.g. Credit Card or bank transfer). And someone to directly talk to. Am 22.08.2007 um 21:19 schrieb David Pottage: Jean-Eric Cuendet (ML) wrote: Hi, It seems that a big problem we have here in Europe to get Openmoko devices is that the shiping costs are quite high: around 80-100USD !! I've opened a website that will sell GTA02 devices when they are available, to other Europe countries. I'll buy quantities of devices from FIC and resell them from here, in Switzerland, middle of Europe. I am interested, but I am concerned about VAT and import duty issues, as Switzerland is outside the European Union. I would feel much happier ordering from an importer inside the EU, as that way the importer would be responsible for sorting out and paying any import duties and taxes. The price I pay would include VAT at the prevailing rate in the importer's country. (So it would be better to ship from Belgium where it is low, rather than France where it is high). Unfortunately I don't get any of those advantages if buy from a retailer ouside the EU. I may save a small amount on shipping, but I would still have the headache of paying those taxes myself, and the posibily of paying a lot more than I expect if the customs officers misclassify the Neo 1973, or disagree with me on it's value. Payment will be possible through Paypal or direct postal payment in Switzerland. Shiping costs will be around 20-25EUR for countries in Europe. I *HATE* paypal, so in any case, if you can find another way of receiving payments that would be good. Regards -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
Hi Guys, I'm not sure if I posted to the list before, or was just chatting on IRC - but I have been a little busy over the past few days. I collected my neo just over a week ago (see http://blog.zrmt.com/?p=42) and was suitably impressed with it. I don't think there are enough superlatives, but I'm sure I don't need to tell you guys that. Through some rather lucky family links (my brother is dating the daughter of a handset procurement manager at Vodafone UK) I've managed to generate quite a bit of interest in the neo1973. My little brother can be held responsible for whetting the appetite of his girlfriend's father - and as he was going on holiday to Spain this week with the family - I let him take the neo with him to show the guy. My gut feeling was that Vodafone would probably be one of the last providers to support/distribute a linux-based 'open' phone given their reputation fro crippling devices with their own version of the software, none the less I also felt that the attempt was worth a shot - and hopefully he will see the potential of the device. I think the hardest thing to fight at the moment is the fact that the current telecommunications market must undergo a paradigm shift in order to find a way of continuing to profit (so substantially). I'll hopefully post an interview with the guy when he returns from his holiday. If anyone could provide me with some good information (I do feel like I'm going into this a little under-prepared) then I'd be happy to accept/discuss. Regards, Andy Loughran -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Vaughan Sent: 23 August 2007 11:16 To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe As a programmer, even *I* might be selling them, directly, from the factory .. j. On Aug 23, 2007, at 8:27 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I am quite sure that there will be others who are longer in the business (like http://www.handheld-linux.com to name one I know very well) to resell the GTA02 from within Europe. But we must be aware that reselling needs some more margin for handling all these duties, tax, repacking, shipping, insurance issues (there are a lot of people involved who want to be paid for their services). So, the device will certainly cost more than 450 USD + shipment. But you get all issues solved. And there will be warranty. And more options for payment (e.g. Credit Card or bank transfer). And someone to directly talk to. Am 22.08.2007 um 21:19 schrieb David Pottage: Jean-Eric Cuendet (ML) wrote: Hi, It seems that a big problem we have here in Europe to get Openmoko devices is that the shiping costs are quite high: around 80-100USD !! I've opened a website that will sell GTA02 devices when they are available, to other Europe countries. I'll buy quantities of devices from FIC and resell them from here, in Switzerland, middle of Europe. I am interested, but I am concerned about VAT and import duty issues, as Switzerland is outside the European Union. I would feel much happier ordering from an importer inside the EU, as that way the importer would be responsible for sorting out and paying any import duties and taxes. The price I pay would include VAT at the prevailing rate in the importer's country. (So it would be better to ship from Belgium where it is low, rather than France where it is high). Unfortunately I don't get any of those advantages if buy from a retailer ouside the EU. I may save a small amount on shipping, but I would still have the headache of paying those taxes myself, and the posibily of paying a lot more than I expect if the customs officers misclassify the Neo 1973, or disagree with me on it's value. Payment will be possible through Paypal or direct postal payment in Switzerland. Shiping costs will be around 20-25EUR for countries in Europe. I *HATE* paypal, so in any case, if you can find another way of receiving payments that would be good. Regards -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community attachment: winmail.dat___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
Hi Guys, I'm not sure if I posted to the list before, or was just chatting on IRC - but I have been a little busy over the past few days. I collected my neo just over a week ago (see http://blog.zrmt.com/?p=42) and was suitably impressed with it. I don't think there are enough superlatives, but I'm sure I don't need to tell you guys that. Through some rather lucky family links (my brother is dating the daughter of a handset procurement manager at Vodafone UK) I've managed to generate quite a bit of interest in the neo1973. My little brother can be held responsible for whetting the appetite of his girlfriend's father - and as he was going on holiday to Spain this week with the family - I let him take the neo with him to show the guy. My gut feeling was that Vodafone would probably be one of the last providers to support/distribute a linux-based 'open' phone given their reputation fro crippling devices with their own version of the software, none the less I also felt that the attempt was worth a shot - and hopefully he will see the potential of the device. I think the hardest thing to fight at the moment is the fact that the current telecommunications market must undergo a paradigm shift in order to find a way of continuing to profit (so substantially). I'll hopefully post an interview with the guy when he returns from his holiday. If anyone could provide me with some good information (I do feel like I'm going into this a little under-prepared) then I'd be happy to accept/discuss. Regards, Andy Loughran -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Vaughan Sent: 23 August 2007 11:16 To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe As a programmer, even *I* might be selling them, directly, from the factory .. j. On Aug 23, 2007, at 8:27 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: I am quite sure that there will be others who are longer in the business (like http://www.handheld-linux.com to name one I know very well) to resell the GTA02 from within Europe. But we must be aware that reselling needs some more margin for handling all these duties, tax, repacking, shipping, insurance issues (there are a lot of people involved who want to be paid for their services). So, the device will certainly cost more than 450 USD + shipment. But you get all issues solved. And there will be warranty. And more options for payment (e.g. Credit Card or bank transfer). And someone to directly talk to. Am 22.08.2007 um 21:19 schrieb David Pottage: Jean-Eric Cuendet (ML) wrote: Hi, It seems that a big problem we have here in Europe to get Openmoko devices is that the shiping costs are quite high: around 80-100USD !! I've opened a website that will sell GTA02 devices when they are available, to other Europe countries. I'll buy quantities of devices from FIC and resell them from here, in Switzerland, middle of Europe. I am interested, but I am concerned about VAT and import duty issues, as Switzerland is outside the European Union. I would feel much happier ordering from an importer inside the EU, as that way the importer would be responsible for sorting out and paying any import duties and taxes. The price I pay would include VAT at the prevailing rate in the importer's country. (So it would be better to ship from Belgium where it is low, rather than France where it is high). Unfortunately I don't get any of those advantages if buy from a retailer ouside the EU. I may save a small amount on shipping, but I would still have the headache of paying those taxes myself, and the posibily of paying a lot more than I expect if the customs officers misclassify the Neo 1973, or disagree with me on it's value. Payment will be possible through Paypal or direct postal payment in Switzerland. Shiping costs will be around 20-25EUR for countries in Europe. I *HATE* paypal, so in any case, if you can find another way of receiving payments that would be good. Regards -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Andy Loughran www.zrmt.com m: 07921076319 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
Andy Loughran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : My gut feeling was that Vodafone would probably be one of the last providers to support/distribute a linux-based 'open' phone given their reputation fro crippling devices with their own version of the software, none the less I also felt that the attempt was worth a shot - and hopefully he will see the potential of the device. They can cripple and completely adjust the phone to suit their needs. All other phones have copyrights and patents on their phone. Also, now that HTC don't want their phones rebadged there's room for another supplier who doesn't mind. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
On Thursday 23 August 2007 13:27, Andy Loughran wrote: Hi Guys, My gut feeling was that Vodafone would probably be one of the last providers to support/distribute a linux-based 'open' phone given their reputation fro crippling devices with their own version of the software, none the less I also felt that the attempt was worth a shot - and hopefully he will see the potential of the device. I'm not sure about that, the NEO may provide them with way more options to get the phone just the way they want it than any other phone on the market. The fact that a handfull of user will be installing there own unbranded software on it may not concern them a that much, most user will simply stay with what they get (unless its just too anoying off course). AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
2007/8/22, Jean-Eric Cuendet (ML) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, It seems that a big problem we have here in Europe to get Openmoko devices is that the shiping costs are quite high: around 80-100USD !! I've opened a website that will sell GTA02 devices when they are available, to other Europe countries. I'll buy quantities of devices from FIC and resell them from here, in Switzerland, middle of Europe. Hi. I'm really interested in obtaining (at least) one GTA02 device. But I live in Latvia. Are there any hopes that you'll ship here too? At least we all are in same Union. :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
Well those were exactly my two thoughts: 1) Vodafone can brand it to a much higher level than ever before. -'unlimited' customisation 2) Since HTC don't want branded (and 02 won iPhone - though I'm not too sure) there's a gap in Vodafone's portfolio. 3) Vodafone can install their own 'branded' openmoko on the phone for mass distribution, but this doesn't stop the 'hardcore' geeks or 'educated n00bs' from changing the software over the the original openmoko. I think also voda+neo and moko+neo (where voda is just voda branded) will help get more money in for the openmoko team, and in the long run that can only be a good thing to help pay for hardware/software development, and give the core developers a nice Christmas bonus! Andy Loughran www.zrmt.com m: 07921076319 - Original Message - From: AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: 23 August 2007 12:53:09 o'clock (GMT) Europe/London Subject: Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe On Thursday 23 August 2007 13:27, Andy Loughran wrote: Hi Guys, My gut feeling was that Vodafone would probably be one of the last providers to support/distribute a linux-based 'open' phone given their reputation fro crippling devices with their own version of the software, none the less I also felt that the attempt was worth a shot - and hopefully he will see the potential of the device. I'm not sure about that, the NEO may provide them with way more options to get the phone just the way they want it than any other phone on the market. The fact that a handfull of user will be installing there own unbranded software on it may not concern them a that much, most user will simply stay with what they get (unless its just too anoying off course). AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
On to, 2007-08-23 at 15:15 +0300, Ilja O. wrote: 2007/8/22, Jean-Eric Cuendet (ML) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've opened a website that will sell GTA02 devices when they are available, to other Europe countries. I'll buy quantities of devices from FIC and resell them from here, in Switzerland, middle of Europe. Hi. I'm really interested in obtaining (at least) one GTA02 device. But I live in Latvia. Are there any hopes that you'll ship here too? At least we all are in same Union. :-) Actually, Switzerland isn't in the EU. Which results in people still needing to bother with customs and stuff. (Should be better postagewise and stuff, of course.) -- Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
On 8/23/07, Andy Loughran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip 3) Vodafone can install their own 'branded' openmoko on the phone for mass distribution, but this doesn't stop the 'hardcore' geeks or 'educated n00bs' from changing the software over the the original openmoko. /snip um, all they'd need to do is customize u-boot to not display the update option, or require a password to update... You'd still be able to get around that with a debug board, the 'educated n00bs' are probably not going to have one of those sitting around -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
Jean-Eric Cuendet (ML) wrote: Hi, It seems that a big problem we have here in Europe to get Openmoko devices is that the shiping costs are quite high: around 80-100USD !! I've opened a website that will sell GTA02 devices when they are available, to other Europe countries. I'll buy quantities of devices from FIC and resell them from here, in Switzerland, middle of Europe. I am interested, but I am concerned about VAT and import duty issues, as Switzerland is outside the European Union. I would feel much happier ordering from an importer inside the EU, as that way the importer would be responsible for sorting out and paying any import duties and taxes. The price I pay would include VAT at the prevailing rate in the importer's country. (So it would be better to ship from Belgium where it is low, rather than France where it is high). Unfortunately I don't get any of those advantages if buy from a retailer ouside the EU. I may save a small amount on shipping, but I would still have the headache of paying those taxes myself, and the posibily of paying a lot more than I expect if the customs officers misclassify the Neo 1973, or disagree with me on it's value. Payment will be possible through Paypal or direct postal payment in Switzerland. Shiping costs will be around 20-25EUR for countries in Europe. I *HATE* paypal, so in any case, if you can find another way of receiving payments that would be good. Regards -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
