Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:56:35 -0400 Chris Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/8/22 Lothar Behrens [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You must have a lock, since otherwise you may accidantly issue an emergency call. Lothar With my current phone, you can make emergency calls on it, even if the phone is locked. It happened to me once. I got a call a few minutes later from the call center asking if everything was okay. I'd rather not repeat that. Locks that do not allow emergency calls are good. Especially considering that you need to take various other steps to place an emergency call with the Freerunner (go to an application menu, choose an icon, dial). Everybody has their preferences. I'd really like to see a second small bootable image for just emergency calls so there would be no wait. There's no point in forcing that kind of thing down others' throat but that could be an optional image. If the lock is easy, I have no problem taking it off and dialing 112 in a hurry. I'm more worried about having to wait for my small linux computer to fully boot up while someone is bleeding to death in my arms. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
Yogiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everybody has their preferences. I'd really like to see a second small bootable image for just emergency calls so there would be no wait. There's no point in forcing that kind of thing down others' throat but that could be an optional image. If the lock is easy, I have no problem taking it off and dialing 112 in a hurry. I'm more worried about having to wait for my small linux computer to fully boot up while someone is bleeding to death in my arms. you will need a rather full blown linux image in any case. for making a call you need several hardware components (audio, gsm, display, maybe gps) up and running so you depend on the kernel drivers AND even some higher level userspace apps anyway. better to optimize the initial bootup time to a minimum. my 2 cents clemens ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Clemens Kirchgatterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yogiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everybody has their preferences. I'd really like to see a second small bootable image for just emergency calls so there would be no wait. There's no point in forcing that kind of thing down others' throat but that could be an optional image. If the lock is easy, I have no problem taking it off and dialing 112 in a hurry. I'm more worried about having to wait for my small linux computer to fully boot up while someone is bleeding to death in my arms. you will need a rather full blown linux image in any case. for making a call you need several hardware components (audio, gsm, display, maybe gps) up and running so you depend on the kernel drivers AND even some higher level userspace apps anyway. better to optimize the initial bootup time to a minimum. IIRC GSM audio can be routed directly through without using the CPU. Also if you had to program an emergency number before hand, you wouldn't need the display. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
Lothar Behrens wrote: problem is, you're relying on people thinking clearly, being able to make good logical decisions and correctly choosing the environment to boot into on startup. unfortunately, this is the last thing most people can do in the sort of high-stress situation which typically demands an emergency call. if you study some mobiles, they are able to make emergency calls without unlocking the screen, because manufacturers realise people can't even manage that simple task when they panic, even something they may do 20 times a day [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop I have talked about boot options. At this time there is no locking screen. Simply there should be a button to bypass the normal boot by pressing and go into an emergency mode. This way only 8 seconds may be remaining until a emergency call would be possible. Not 2 minutes. The unlock screen may have a top left area and a top right area. Right would be normal unlock and left maybe emergency call. You must have a lock, since otherwise you may accidantly issue an emergency call. the point i was making is that when people are in stressful situations they panic; even something as simple as selecting a different option at boot-time becomes difficult. the point about the screen lock was an example to illustrate my main point. there are many more i could have chosen, but picked one related to mobile phones ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
Am Samstag, den 23.08.2008, 10:42 +0200 schrieb Federico Lorenzi: On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Clemens Kirchgatterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IIRC GSM audio can be routed directly through without using the CPU. Also if you had to program an emergency number before hand, you wouldn't need the display. I think, too, it should be possible to create a mini OS only for emergency calls. The number to be called could be passed as a poot parameter, thus the boot configuration may be modified by a setup application. A mini OS: Maybe any open OS that is fast booting (freeDOS ???) Configuring in a DOS partition would also be possible from Linux I think. Is this possible ? Lothar ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
Am 23.08.2008 um 11:15 schrieb robin paulson: I have talked about boot options. At this time there is no locking screen. Simply there should be a button to bypass the normal boot by pressing and go into an emergency mode. This way only 8 seconds may be remaining until a emergency call would be possible. Not 2 minutes. The unlock screen may have a top left area and a top right area. Right would be normal unlock and left maybe emergency call. You must have a lock, since otherwise you may accidantly issue an emergency call. the point i was making is that when people are in stressful situations they panic; even something as simple as selecting a different option at boot-time becomes difficult. the point about the screen lock was an example to illustrate my main point. there are many more i could have chosen, but picked one related to mobile phones The boot menu should in this case be ONLY an emergency button. Shown for about 3 seconds or the like, it could be pressed to bypass the normal boot sequence. If the button is not pressed the normal boot will occur. The uboot menu should not be used, because you have to press also the AUX button. This is unusual for the normal user thus they forgot about it. I have just pressed at the aux button from screen locked state. Is there a way to replace the usual 'buttons' by one 'Take Emergency call' or better an icon for it. The small dismiss button should stay at the mottom to go back into screen lock. This could then well documented. Also the power button could be used in paralell for the same issue. There is only a need to detect, that the phone was in screen lock mode. Lothar -- Lothar Behrens |Rapid Prototyping ... Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2 |XSLT Codegeneration 73252 Lenningen |www.lollisoft.de ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
the point i was making is that when people are in stressful situations they panic; even something as simple as selecting a different option at boot-time becomes difficult. the point about the screen lock was an example to illustrate my main point. there are many more i could have chosen, but picked one related to mobile phones No, You can't generalize like that. I'm a paramedic, I know when things are bad enough I should make the call and I don't have second doubts about it. When the situation arises and my Freerunner is for some reason turned off, it's not the panic element that stands before me and a connection to the EMT dispatcher but the time that I need to make my phone usable for said call. The choice should be there for those that have a use for those 20 extra seconds when it's needed. It could be an add-on and not included in the main distros, I don't care. I'm just saying that there are people who know, how to make best use out of this kind of solution. I see it as an installable ipk package containing a kernel image as well as a (modified) gsm daemon + everything else essential to the call that would probably go on a separate partition. There would be instructions to make to the boot manager and we'd have exactly what we need. Yogiz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
Hello, It time is very critical, it seems better to let the phone continuously on. Otherwise is this scenario acceptable (automatic call after 3 minutes): the phone is off, the user still holds the power on button while the kernel is starting (say during 5 seconds or more), when the OS is operationnal, an automatic message is sent (with info on the user, possibly gps coordinates, etc...). Gilles ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
Am Samstag, 23. August 2008 19:04:18 schrieb Gilles Casse: It time is very critical, it seems better to let the phone continuously on. Otherwise is this scenario acceptable (automatic call after 3 minutes): the phone is off, the user still holds the power on button while the kernel is starting (say during 5 seconds or more), when the OS is operationnal, an automatic message is sent (with info on the user, possibly gps coordinates, etc...). This is problematic, if the power button is pressed while the phone is in the pocket. Maybe it would be possible to boot the kernel, gsm and X, then display a button for emergency calls while the rest (bluetooth, wifi and user interface stuff) is starting up. If the user presses the emergency call button the bootprocess stops/pauses and a menu like this shows up: 911 999 112 Continue booting Fabian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
Lothar Behrens wrote: besides of WindowsCE and I don't like it on my phone for dayly use, I like to ask another question: There were some comments when booting Linux it take about 2-3 minutes. And the commentary was 'How to take an emergency call ?' Would such a specialized uImage.bin able to manage such an emergency call ? If so, why not developing such a secondary image and change the power on screen by adding an emergency button and let the user the change to do so ? I think, this is very important. it's a nice idea, something like the splashtop[1] BIOS used in asus motherboards? problem is, you're relying on people thinking clearly, being able to make good logical decisions and correctly choosing the environment to boot into on startup. unfortunately, this is the last thing most people can do in the sort of high-stress situation which typically demands an emergency call. if you study some mobiles, they are able to make emergency calls without unlocking the screen, because manufacturers realise people can't even manage that simple task when they panic, even something they may do 20 times a day [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
Am Freitag, den 22.08.2008, 21:48 +1200 schrieb robin paulson: Lothar Behrens wrote: besides of WindowsCE and I don't like it on my phone for dayly use, I like to ask another question: There were some comments when booting Linux it take about 2-3 minutes. And the commentary was 'How to take an emergency call ?' Would such a specialized uImage.bin able to manage such an emergency call ? If so, why not developing such a secondary image and change the power on screen by adding an emergency button and let the user the change to do so ? I think, this is very important. it's a nice idea, something like the splashtop[1] BIOS used in asus motherboards? problem is, you're relying on people thinking clearly, being able to make good logical decisions and correctly choosing the environment to boot into on startup. unfortunately, this is the last thing most people can do in the sort of high-stress situation which typically demands an emergency call. if you study some mobiles, they are able to make emergency calls without unlocking the screen, because manufacturers realise people can't even manage that simple task when they panic, even something they may do 20 times a day [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop I have talked about boot options. At this time there is no locking screen. Simply there should be a button to bypass the normal boot by pressing and go into an emergency mode. This way only 8 seconds may be remaining until a emergency call would be possible. Not 2 minutes. The unlock screen may have a top left area and a top right area. Right would be normal unlock and left maybe emergency call. You must have a lock, since otherwise you may accidantly issue an emergency call. Lothar ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Emergency call at boot time functionality (was Re: Windows CE on freerunner)
2008/8/22 Lothar Behrens [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You must have a lock, since otherwise you may accidantly issue an emergency call. Lothar With my current phone, you can make emergency calls on it, even if the phone is locked. It happened to me once. I got a call a few minutes later from the call center asking if everything was okay. I'd rather not repeat that. Locks that do not allow emergency calls are good. Especially considering that you need to take various other steps to place an emergency call with the Freerunner (go to an application menu, choose an icon, dial). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
