Re: Indiephone.eu
Hi Michael Is a GTA02 debug board any use to you? I'd be happy to mail it to you if so. * 2014-12-31: GSM fw fully running on the Calypso baseband, controlled by AT commands, which would be good enough for practical use on the GTA02, but a toy on the other targets. Voice + SMS only; adding CSD and GPRS would be subsequent extra work. Excellent - I'm glad you decided to continue. From what I've seen and heard of the UK supplier 3 (the only 3G only network here AFAIK), it's reasonable to think 2G is going to still be around for a good long while, at least in some parts of the world. * 2015-06-30: the above plus the UI layers to make a Calypso dumbphone with available schematics and no undocumented chips (e.g., Mot C139) work as a practically usable cellphone running 100% free software which any user can recompile from source and reflash at will. In the hope of the project advancing to this stage, I'm interested in picking up a dumbphone before I return to SA. Is the C139 the best bet? I notice that osmocomBB says the C140 is virtually identical to this model. What about the other phones oBB list as targets - is it reasonable to hope they will usably run freecalypso? I'm guessing though that the gui code might be substantially model specific? Regards -- m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Indiephone.eu
David wrote: Is a GTA02 debug board any use to you? I'd be happy to mail it to you if so. I already have one. :) Excellent - I'm glad you decided to continue. Yes, I am continuing for the time being, finances etc permitting. From what I've seen and heard of the UK supplier 3 (the only 3G only network here AFAIK), it's reasonable to think 2G is going to still be around for a good long while, at least in some parts of the world. The 2G service provided by Operator 310260 in my part of the world is still working OK for now too. It is really a race: we need to get our Free Dumb Phone working in an end-user-usable state a year or two before 2G services shut down. If Operator 310260 starts shutting down its 2G services when we have a few hundred (or maybe even a thousand) users with our totally free phones, they might think twice about losing that many customers, and could perhaps be convinced to keep a tiny sliver of 2G capacity around for this segment of their customer base - and if not, if they do shut their 2G down despite all of our pleas, if we have a thousand users in our camp, we may be able to pull enough of our own resources together to set up our own operational 2G network to replace the ones taken away from us by the mega-carriers. In the hope of the project advancing to this stage, I'm interested in picking up a dumbphone before I return to SA. Is the C139 the best bet? It appears to be, as of this moment, subject to change as the project advances. I notice that osmocomBB says the C140 is virtually identical to this model. Yes, C139 and C140 appear to be exactly the same - I have yet to figure out what the difference is, if any. I usually say C139 because to the best of my knowledge, all units with NA bands are C139s, whereas EMEA band units have been observed with both C139 and C140 branding. Please note that all C1xx phones are single-region, i.e., either EMEA only (900+1800 MHz) or NA only (1900+850 MHz). That's the downside of these models compared to the triband GTA02 and Pirelli phones. What about the other phones oBB list as targets - is it reasonable to hope they will usably run freecalypso? All other targets listed by OsmocomBB are Compal family members. FC already runs on the C139/140 and C155/156 subfamilies - these two and not others because these two are the ones of potential use to me and my family operating in the USA-occupied territories. Getting it to run on other Compal variants goes along the lines of we'll add support for model X as soon as at least one user actually needs it. I'm guessing though that the gui code might be substantially model specific? Yes, the UI hardware in general (not just the LCD as implied by your reference to gui, but also parts like the ringtone generator) is the stuff that varies more widely from model to model. In particular, FC support for C155/156 may remain a toy, rather than practically usable, because these models have a ringtone generator chip for which we have no docs. OTOH, C139/140 use a piezo buzzer driven directly by the Calypso, no extra chip. My advice here is simple: for as long as C139/140 (which variant is right for your part of the world, in terms of freq bands) are still available, just grab one to make things easier. If you can't get this model, but some other is still available, then let's revisit the issue at that time. Of course the ultimate solution is for us to build our own FC phones, and I already made a start down that path - but my current game plan is to finish the software part, and then resume the hardware project. VLR, SF ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Indiephone.eu
Is a GTA02 debug board any use to you? I'd be happy to mail it to you if so. I already have one. :) Anyone else like a free debug board? If you do/have done any publically available freerunner development, I'll cover shipping cost. -- m...@dmatthews.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Indiephone.eu
On 29/06/14 05:02, Paul Wise wrote: On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Their claim that there is no other product appears to be completely ignoring all our efforts of the past years. I expect they simply didn't research the various projects out there already. I would have hoped they did... well lets see... Here are another few projects/groups that could have some crossover with open mobile communities btw: https://www.blackphone.ch/ there a joke. seen a interview/properganerview on bbc tech news show click. conclusion BS,BS,BS,BS!!! agr. for gov employees so while they might be secure for work but not so secure the gov can't see what there employees are getting up too. http://www.fairphone.com/ good ethical sourcing of minerals and manufacturing(?) but lacking still playing the wack-a-phone-every-2years-cus-your-old-one-can'twon’t-have-support-ever-again mwhahah game. in other words yee old non-free drivers and firmware :P https://blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-impossible-hardening-android-security-and-privacy is mission impossible due to proprietary key bits in android phone. let me remind you of the samsung Backdoor. again not something someone can just buy that is set up by default. https://guardianproject.info/ just a package of a few very usefull apps but not a hole user experience http://www.openmediacluster.com/en/user-verifiable-social-telematics-project/ this is a new one to me.. hmm looks like someone for indiephone and rhombus-tech.net to work with :) ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Indiephone.eu
There is one more free phone project still kickin': https://bitbucket.org/falconian/freecalypso-sw I somehow doubt that these new folks on the scene (indiephone.eu) will produce a phone with a baseband processor whose firmware is delivered to end users in full source form. At best they might match the level of freedom one can get today with GTA04 (free AP + closed black box modem), but more likely they will probably end up like blackphone. I looked on blackphone.ch, and nowhere do I see any software source download links, let alone hardware schematics - WTF?! Do they seriously expect people to fork over $$$ for a closed plastic box that is just as proprietary as the standard run-of-the-mill Androids and iPhones to which they supposedly offer an alternative? Meanwhile, FreeCalypso is steadily progressing toward its goal of running 100% free software on all 3 hardware targets: Mot C1xx, Openmoko GTA02 and Pirelli DP-L10. Just yesterday I finished reconstructing the source for the required subset of TI's GPF OS Adaptation Layer (i.e., writing new C code to replace the bits which were available only in binary object form, replicating the original logic flow extracted from disassembly), and today I've got GPF integrated onto the fledging gcc-built firmware skeleton. It's running on my GTA02 as I type this. I am not aware of any projects other than OsmocomBB and my own FreeCalypso that have ever promised or done any work toward a phone of any kind, dumb or smart, that can make or receive phone calls using only Free Software, i.e., software that provides its users with the essential Four Freedoms as defined by the FSF. Yes, if one excludes the baseband from the freedom requirement, then anything from a Samsung device running Replicant to GolDeliCo's GTA04 will pass. But for some people that is not good enough, and if there exists a choice between a more-free solution and a less-free one, why would you choose the latter? The OsmocomBB community seems to be interested only in security research, aka hacking, whereas the goal of producing a usable phone, if they ever had such a goal at all, appears to have been completely abandoned. Consider this one little factoid: OsmocomBB was first presented at 27C3 in the last days of 2010; a video recording of that presentation (by Harald Welte) is online. If you watch that video, you can see what the state of functionality was as of that date. Well, here is a bit of breaking news: the level of functionality that OsmocomBB offers for normal phone usage (as opposed to hacking) is *exactly the same* today, in mid-2014, as it was at the end of 2010: the phone can kinda-sorta connect to cell networks (not very reliably) and can do calls and SMS for as long as it remains tethered to a PC, with the GSM protocol stack running on the PC instead of the Calypso. As evidenced by the video of Harald's talk, it did exactly the same in December of 2010. So what the heck have these people been doing for the past 3.5 years?? In comparison, FreeCalypso got a much later start: I only succeeded in obtaining the key starting-point materials when they were published in the fall of 2013, less than a year ago, whereas Harald Welte and his gang have undoubtedly had them many years earlier, probably before they even started OsmocomBB. If life circumstances (finances etc) permit me to continue working on FreeCalypso without slowing down, then by the end of 2014 we shall have fully free firmware with basic GSM functionality running on the GTA02 GSM modem, and by fully free I mean full C source compiled with gcc, no blobs or proprietary compilers. The same fw will run on dumbphone hw targets too, but will still be controlled by external AT commands, no UI, hence only a toy like OsmocomBB. Adding UI would be the next step. Because I would rather give an overly pessimistic time estimate than give an overly optimistic one and then fail to deliver, I'll estimate the time to fruition as follows: * 2014-12-31: GSM fw fully running on the Calypso baseband, controlled by AT commands, which would be good enough for practical use on the GTA02, but a toy on the other targets. Voice + SMS only; adding CSD and GPRS would be subsequent extra work. * 2015-06-30: the above plus the UI layers to make a Calypso dumbphone with available schematics and no undocumented chips (e.g., Mot C139) work as a practically usable cellphone running 100% free software which any user can recompile from source and reflash at will. (The above are estimates, not a binding contract; anyone interested in a firmer commitment in exchange for pay is welcome to contact me off-list.) So as you all can see, the goal of a phone that runs 100% free software with *no* closed baseband is quite within reach. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Viva la Revolucion, SF ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: Indiephone.eu
On Mon 30 June 2014 02:31:57 Michael Spacefalcon wrote: Q: So what the heck have these people been doing for the past 3.5 years?? A: Their thing they been interested in, instead of bitching at others, like you do. Not everybody shares your approach and goals, some even find such goals utterly useless to scratch their own itch. Your contributions would probably receive more attention when you finally would refrain from constant engaging in useless personal insults and fights. But then, hoping for such a change of mindset is probably just ridiculously silly of me - we know your hang on this since several years now. If you want to do me ONE favor: don't answer this mail! I already regret havng written it. Anyway now it's done, here it flies. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments (alas the above page got scrapped due to resignation(!!), so here some supplementary links:) http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml http://www.nonhtmlmail.org/campaign.html http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil_still.shtml http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii/ (German) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Indiephone.eu
Am 28.06.2014 um 11:17 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Hi, there appears to be a new initiative which is taking all our values (openness, freedom, community development, ) and casting it into a new name: http://indiephone.eu/faq/ The most common answer to that is that no other product is currently attempting to solve the problem as Indie Phone. That problem is how to empower mere mortals to own their own data. This is why we are crafting a beautiful experience that seamlessly combines hardware, software, and services, to create a consumer smartphone to compete with the likes of iPhone and Nexus. e.g. compare to: http://www.openphoenux.org You are the owner: • Be independent from big players. • Make the system transparent, not the user. • Keep control over your data. Their claim that there is no other product appears to be completely ignoring all our efforts of the past years. And I am not aware of any relation with us. They even copied to use the word indie/independent. Does anyone know more about that? I had in parallel contacted the indiephone.eu people and got an immediate answer that I think I should share, before the discussion is going wrong: Is there any chance you can make it to the summit? (Where are you based?) Would love to be involved and I’m sure there is a lot we can learn from you and perhaps we can bring some of you in to help us out with the hardware side of things. Our approach is very different in that we are focussed entirely on building independent consumer products that are design-led from the business model down (holistic design). That said, I believe we share the same goals independence and giving the user control/owndership. Our user happens to be consumers whereas the user for OpenPhoenux, as far as I can tell, is enthusiasts with technical knowledge. We should definitely be talking and helping each other out. If you can make it to Brighton next week — please try and come on the 3rd for our private social meet-up prior to the event as I’d love the opportunity to chat one-on-one :) (And, although the schedule is tight, I believe we can squeeze in just one demo during the eat, drink, and watch session at lunch if you want 3 minutes to show off what you guys are working on.) The summit mentioned appears to be this: https://indietech.org/summit/ If anyone wants to and can go to Brighton next week, please let me know to arrange the 3 minutes with the summit organisers. BR, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Indiephone.eu
On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Their claim that there is no other product appears to be completely ignoring all our efforts of the past years. I expect they simply didn't research the various projects out there already. Here are another few projects/groups that could have some crossover with open mobile communities btw: https://www.blackphone.ch/ http://www.fairphone.com/ https://blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-impossible-hardening-android-security-and-privacy https://guardianproject.info/ http://www.openmediacluster.com/en/user-verifiable-social-telematics-project/ -- bye, pabs http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:PaulWise ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
