Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-17 Thread Pander
Levy A. M. Sant'Anna wrote: Did someone created another keyboard for terminal layout? I did, but is not so good, yet. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-16 Thread Levy A. M. Sant'Anna
Did someone created another keyboard for terminal layout? I did, but is not so good, yet. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-15 Thread Arthur Marsh
Chris Samuel wrote, on 2009-01-13 18:42: On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 5:11:45 am Stefan Monnier wrote: [1] - which is ironic given that they were invented to encourage people to publish their ideas rather than keep them secret. Actually, not so ironic: it basically means that rather than keeping them

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-15 Thread kimaidou
Hi all No offense, but could you please rename the topic with patents something instead of keyboard mockup ? I let you choose the right one though. thanks in advance. 2009/1/15 Arthur Marsh arthur.ma...@internode.on.net Chris Samuel wrote, on 2009-01-13 18:42: On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 5:11:45 am

Software Patents [was Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup]

2009-01-15 Thread Arthur Marsh
kimaidou wrote, on 2009-01-15 18:53: Hi all No offense, but could you please rename the topic with patents something instead of keyboard mockup ? I let you choose the right one though. thanks in advance. 2009/1/15 Arthur Marsh arthur.ma...@internode.on.net ... But the software patent is

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-13 Thread Chris Samuel
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 5:11:45 am Stefan Monnier wrote: [1] - which is ironic given that they were invented to encourage people to publish their ideas rather than keep them secret. Actually, not so ironic: it basically means that rather than keeping them as internal secrets, they get to lock

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-08 Thread Helge Hafting
leonardo wrote: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra ha scritto: it's cool, you should really patent it! :-))) Please die a slow and painful death for suggesting that. [1] Rui [1] unless you were really just making a very bad taste joke :) Of course it was [1]... T9 is quite emblematic for

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-08 Thread Stefan Monnier
[1] - which is ironic given that they were invented to encourage people to publish their ideas rather than keep them secret. Actually, not so ironic: it basically means that rather than keeping them as internal secrets, they get to lock them in a government-provided vault. IIRC, the history

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-08 Thread leona...@lilik.it
Helge Hafting wrote: leonardo wrote: More important, the patent is about reduced keyboard disambiguating. If the keyboard isn't reduced, i.e. it has all the keys, then that patent doesn't seem to apply. The illume keyboard aren't missing any keys for example. It only uses a dictionary

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-08 Thread leona...@lilik.it
Stefan Monnier wrote: [1] - which is ironic given that they were invented to encourage people to publish their ideas rather than keep them secret. Actually, not so ironic: it basically means that rather than keeping them as internal secrets, they get to lock them in a government-provided

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-07 Thread Ian
i'd rather not. 1. trollt.. err.. nokia deserve thanks for the core inspiration and initial work on their one - i didn't know how the code worked until later but i nutted out how it probably should work just by poking at it. so if anyone deserves a patent - it's them. 2. i'd rather this be

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-07 Thread leonardo
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra ha scritto: it's cool, you should really patent it! :-))) Please die a slow and painful death for suggesting that. [1] Rui [1] unless you were really just making a very bad taste joke :) Of course it was [1]... T9 is quite emblematic for software patents and

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-07 Thread Ian
Maybe it would be better to have a full-screen input mode where you can see what will be typed (maybe keep the rightmost 20-30 characters of the string visible in the keyboard app, then actually pass it to the program when leaving 'full-screen' mode or pressing 'enter', etc). That still

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-07 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 02:31:34 +1100 Ian darkstarsw...@gmail.com babbled: i'd rather not. 1. trollt.. err.. nokia deserve thanks for the core inspiration and initial work on their one - i didn't know how the code worked until later but i nutted out how it probably should work just by poking

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-07 Thread Chris Samuel
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 2:35:13 am leonardo wrote: If you look at the patent itself (wikipedia says: http://www.google.com/patents?id=PmgCEBAJ) you see it's 27 pages of pointless diagrams and 7 pages of a very vague description of how a reduced keyboard disambiguating computer. Of course if

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread kimaidou
Hi all, I am glad people (re-)start to talk about keyboards. 2 points: * Another great improvement compared to the iphone, illume, etc. ones, would be to have a transparent keyboard, using the whole screen, but allowing to see through it. Of course we need the transparency % to be changed by

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Vasili Sviridov
Good point about T9 kimaidou, but as far as I know the T9 itself is a patented technology, and would not be able to appear on Moko officially... kimaidou wrote: Hi all, I am glad people (re-)start to talk about keyboards. 2 points: * Another great improvement compared to the iphone, illume,

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Xavier Cremaschi
I don't get how the dictionnary (illume and qtopia) actually helps to write some word. To write forest with illume keyboard you just have to type : - near the f key - near the o key - near the r key - near the e key - near the s key - near the t key For each key you type, the illume keyboard

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:50:38 +0100 kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com babbled: Hi all, I am glad people (re-)start to talk about keyboards. 2 points: * Another great improvement compared to the iphone, illume, etc. ones, would be to have a transparent keyboard, using the whole screen, but

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Robin Paulson
2009/1/6 kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com: Ok. Thanks both for your usefull answers. @Vasily : T9 is patented, but we can reproduce the same functionnality, as OpenOffice did with Microsoft Office, or am I missing something ? no, t9 is patented in it's entirety. ms office is not patented as a

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Esben Stien
Pascal d'Hermilly pas...@tipisoft.dk writes: a well working finger-friendly keyboard is the most critical missing feature for me. Yes, I find this issue very strange. First and foremost, it is us hackers that use this device for now and are supposed to make apps for freerunner and all, and we

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread arne anka
no, t9 is patented in it's entirety. what exactly is patented that could not be reimplemented? - the system of numbers and characters per key is afaik a well known standard (and dating from long before the mobile era) - hitting the key several times to select a specific symbol was done long

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread kimaidou
Woua ! THAT is a complete explanation ! It shows well the complexity and power of the illume keyboard method. I apologize for not having well understand this before. I will now definitely use the keyboard, and improve my dictionnary as I type. Thanks a lot for the complete explanation 2009/1/6

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:20:12 +0100 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de babbled: no, t9 is patented in it's entirety. what exactly is patented that could not be reimplemented? - the system of numbers and characters per key is afaik a well known standard (and dating from long before the

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Paul Fertser
Hi, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com writes: what exactly is patented that could not be reimplemented? ... - completing a word from a dictionary based on the already available string is done by several keyboard apps (even xvkbd afaik) w/o violating any patents the

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread arne anka
no, t9 is patented in it's entirety. what exactly is patented that could not be reimplemented? - the system of numbers and characters per key is afaik a well known standard (and dating from long before the mobile era) - hitting the key several times to select a specific symbol was done

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:37:41 +0300 Paul Fertser fercer...@gmail.com babbled: Hi, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) ras...@rasterman.com writes: what exactly is patented that could not be reimplemented? ... - completing a word from a dictionary based on the already available string is

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:39:02 +0100 arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de babbled: no, t9 is patented in it's entirety. what exactly is patented that could not be reimplemented? - the system of numbers and characters per key is afaik a well known standard (and dating from long before the

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Leonti Bielski
I like the illume keyboard! I like it a lot. Word matching is working for me very well even for thumb. I get exact words with my finger in a majority of cases. Dictionaries. It seems like a lot of people blame Raster's keyboard for not getting word matches because of the lack of dictionary. Do

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:02:40 +0100 Esben Stien b...@esben-stien.name babbled: Pascal d'Hermilly pas...@tipisoft.dk writes: a well working finger-friendly keyboard is the most critical missing feature for me. Yes, I find this issue very strange. First and foremost, it is us hackers that

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Robin Paulson
2009/1/6 The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com: you do - Terminal.kbd layout - it ships with illume. i designed the kbd engine in illume to allow for straight-through pushing of key presses without a dict int he way. the Terminal.kbd bypasses dict lookup by just emitting keysyms

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:55:13 +1300 Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com babbled: 2009/1/6 The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com: you do - Terminal.kbd layout - it ships with illume. i designed the kbd engine in illume to allow for straight-through pushing of key presses

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:53:37 +0100 Mathieu Rochette math...@gmail.com babbled: Shashank Bharadwaj wrote: On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com mailto:ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:46:15 + Jan Henkins

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread leona...@lilik.it
Hi Raster, thanks for the explanation. anyway. i hope this helps people understand how it works. someone can throw this onto the wiki if they like. this is the code i wrote for the illume kbd I've summarized this in a page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Illume_keyboard it's cool, you should

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:34:28 +0100 leona...@lilik.it leona...@lilik.it babbled: Hi Raster, thanks for the explanation. anyway. i hope this helps people understand how it works. someone can throw this onto the wiki if they like. this is the code i wrote for the illume kbd I've

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread kimaidou
Hi I like the idea to create a new layout with the well known phone arrangement : [] [abc] [def] [ghi] [jkl] [mno] [pqrs] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread kimaidou
SorrI just sent it to fast: here is the end of my message : 2009/1/6 kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com Hi I like the idea to create a new layout with the well known phone arrangement : [] [abc] [def] [ghi] [jkl] [mno] [pqrs] [tuv] [wxyz] Do you think it will help to type faster with

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:46:41 +0100 kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com babbled: SorrI just sent it to fast: here is the end of my message : 2009/1/6 kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com Hi I like the idea to create a new layout with the well known phone arrangement : [] [abc] [def] [ghi]

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Mathieu Rochette
Shashank Bharadwaj wrote: On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com mailto:ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:46:15 + Jan Henkins j...@henkins.za.net mailto:j...@henkins.za.net babbled: Hello there,

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:14:19 +0100 kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com babbled: Ok. Thanks both for your usefull answers. @Vasily : T9 is patented, but we can reproduce the same functionnality, as OpenOffice did with Microsoft Office, or am I missing something ? no you can't a patent coverts any form

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Alberto Morales
El Martes, 6 de Enero de 2009, Carsten Haitzler escribió: [...] my bet is more people are more proficient at qwerty than at abcdefgh... (those really proficient at abcdefgh are ALSO likely to be really good at qwerty too - the teenagers and young people totally addicted to smsing eachother on

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Jan Henkins
Hello Raster, On Tue, January 6, 2009 09:56, Carsten Haitzler wrote: ok. let me draw u a keyboard (or part of it): q w e r t y u i o p a s d f g h j k l z x c v b n m Excellent! Better than any info currently on the WIKI (I could only find reference to the qtopia keyboard and

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:28:09 - (UTC) Jan Henkins j...@henkins.za.net babbled: Hello Raster, On Tue, January 6, 2009 09:56, Carsten Haitzler wrote: ok. let me draw u a keyboard (or part of it): q w e r t y u i o p a s d f g h j k l z x c v b n m Excellent! Better

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Laszlo KREKACS
Hi! First and foremost, it is us hackers that use this device for now and are supposed to make apps for freerunner and all, and we don't have a damn keyboard;). All this fancy pancy dictionary based guessing is maybe good for normal people writing crappy SMS messages, but not for the current

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Kieran Fleming
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 01:51 +0100, Pascal d'Hermilly wrote: With 2008.12 release, a well working finger-friendly keyboard is the most critical missing feature for me. I've made a mockup of a keyboard that I think would make things a lot easier to type.

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Marc Bantle
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb: ok. let me draw u a keyboard (or part of it): q w e r t y u i o p a s d f g h j k l z x c v b n m Excellent! Better than any info currently on the WIKI (I could only find reference to the qtopia keyboard and it's usage). Would you

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Mathieu Rochette
Laszlo KREKACS wrote: Hi! First and foremost, it is us hackers that use this device for now and are supposed to make apps for freerunner and all, and we don't have a damn keyboard;). All this fancy pancy dictionary based guessing is maybe good for normal people writing crappy SMS messages,

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread kimaidou
Hi Kieran, +1 for your idea : a toggle fullscreen button would be a great improvement. I still consider a transparent keyboard will be a good stuff too. By transparent, I don't mean you can click on the interface under , I mean you can see what you are writting under the keyboard, but cannot have

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Digital Pioneer
I also am somewhat surprised by the lack of an excellent code-friendly keyboard. I use QWO because it actually has the capability of syntactical symbols and is relatively finger-friendly. Still, sometimes you just can't beat good ol' fashioned QWERTY. I like the idea, though, of a keyboard that

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Petr Vanek
of the explanation of Illume's error-corrective keyboard, and it sounded so great, I went and tried it. However, when everything except Hello was listed when I typed hdllo and hwllo I gave up on it. :( Also, it DESPERATELY needs a reset button to start over on the word, if it's not in the list.

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Eldon Koyle
On Jan 06 16:59+0100, kimaidou wrote: Hi Kieran, +1 for your idea : a toggle fullscreen button would be a great improvement. I still consider a transparent keyboard will be a good stuff too. By transparent, I don't mean you can click on the interface under , I mean you can see what you are

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Digital Pioneer
Maybe it would be better to have a full-screen input mode where you can see what will be typed (maybe keep the rightmost 20-30 characters of the string visible in the keyboard app, then actually pass it to the program when leaving 'full-screen' mode or pressing 'enter', etc). That still

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 04:17:06PM +1100, Carsten Haitzler wrote: All of them have nice big buttons and share a simple layout. The FR's screen is big enough even in portrait mode to accommodate a keyboard like this. The Illume keyboard, as excellent as it is (thanks Raster!!), is fiddly

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 12:34:28PM +0100, leona...@lilik.it wrote: Hi Raster, thanks for the explanation. anyway. i hope this helps people understand how it works. someone can throw this onto the wiki if they like. this is the code i wrote for the illume kbd I've summarized this in a

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:14:56 +0100 Mathieu Rochette math...@gmail.com babbled: Laszlo KREKACS wrote: Hi! First and foremost, it is us hackers that use this device for now and are supposed to make apps for freerunner and all, and we don't have a damn keyboard;). All this fancy pancy

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:28:44 -0600 The Digital Pioneer digitalpion...@gmail.com babbled: I also am somewhat surprised by the lack of an excellent code-friendly keyboard. I use QWO because it actually has the capability of syntactical symbols and is relatively finger-friendly. Still, sometimes

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread Laszlo KREKACS
this is be doable. keyboard application can receive message for client, message type is ECORE_X_ATOM_E_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD_STATE and message data is one of: Is it also possible to change the dictionary on the fly too? (if I understand correctly, you are changing the layout ofthe keyboard) Thank

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-06 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:33:41 +0100 Laszlo KREKACS laszlo.krekacs.l...@gmail.com babbled: this is be doable. keyboard application can receive message for client, message type is ECORE_X_ATOM_E_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD_STATE and message data is one of: Is it also possible to change the dictionary

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-05 Thread Jan Henkins
Hello there, Pascal d'Hermilly wrote: With 2008.12 release, a well working finger-friendly keyboard is the most critical missing feature for me. I've made a mockup of a keyboard that I think would make things a lot easier to type. http://dhermilly.dk/pascal/openmoko/keyboard%20mockup.png

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-05 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:46:15 + Jan Henkins j...@henkins.za.net babbled: Hello there, Pascal d'Hermilly wrote: With 2008.12 release, a well working finger-friendly keyboard is the most critical missing feature for me. I've made a mockup of a keyboard that I think would make things a

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-05 Thread Shashank Bharadwaj
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:46:15 + Jan Henkins j...@henkins.za.net babbled: Hello there, Pascal d'Hermilly wrote: With 2008.12 release, a well working finger-friendly keyboard is the most

Re: Openmoko keyboard mockup

2009-01-05 Thread The Rasterman
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:08:41 +0530 Shashank Bharadwaj shanka@gmail.com babbled: On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler ras...@rasterman.com wrote: On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:46:15 + Jan Henkins j...@henkins.za.net babbled: Hello there, Pascal