Re: Using 3G USB dongle [Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device]
On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 09:59:49AM +0200, Sander wrote: Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote (ao): I have been using E169 dongle quite a lot with freerunner. What do you use to connect the dongle and the FR? I'm looking for a converter between the small FR port and the large dongle port. https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Specialized_USB_cables -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 11:45:28 +0200 Gunnar AAstrand Grimnes gunnar.grim...@dfki.de said: Upgrade S3C2442B to S3C6410. Not that it matters, but the N810 seems to achieve really good suspend/resume behaviour and excellent battery life with a dual core it never suspends/resumes. it is always runing. it uses an omap feature called zero clock - the cpu literally stops its clock. registers self-refresh (and ram) like suspend, but on any interrupt (timer, device) it starts running again really fast - nothing is shut down and brought up like suspend/resume. its more like a really smart cpufreq that has a 0mhz option. :) CPU, i.e. one high-performance core that suspends and another one that watches for touch-screen events, etc. and wakes up the other one when something happens. Samsung doesn't make anything like this? no. though you could use a pm for this... but really. zero clock does this effectively.. on 1 core. :) (n810 uses the omap2420: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671navigationId=11990templateId=6123) - Gunnar ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
See below Arigead wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Mosher wrote: Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into some version of the telephone game. Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo. 1. Our successes. 2. Our mistakes. 3. Our challenges I won't go over 1 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors of the presentation, had as our message. Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the balance of 2009. There were two paths: A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03 B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch project B. We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there. 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design. 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping. 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B. 4. We don't have 3X. So, we picked plan B. Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when? and what is it? Well my basic argument was and is this: First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so many times on this list: How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner? And I took the arguments I heard from disty seriously, how do you expect us to buy FR, when GTA03 is right around the corner? And I accepted the arguments I heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 in the market place. All of those arguments said put a bullet in its brain pan! So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03. I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more of the design process and the marketing process to the community. Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started. What can you do to help? 1. Move GTA02 code upstream. 2. Stay Involved. 3. Continue work on applications 4. Buy a FreeRunner. 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions Best, Steve Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org said: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Why the outrage? I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200. nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland. gta03 is postponed (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work on the software). Thanks for the clarification Steve, Carsten had be worried there for a moment. Can I say that I'm using the FR as my Daily Phone and I'm as happy as a pig in shit that when I find the time I can write new apps and improve existing apps. I think most of the people on these lists appreciates the philosophy of Open Source. I for one would love for Open Moko to make that philosophy successful in the Hardware arena. Regardless of what you produce as Plan B, even if it's a hair straightener, I'll buy one. ;-) Oh I think Raster's concerns are well placed. I know I have a mailbox full of requests from the press to explain what this all means. So I'll make an official public statement to them probably tomorrow, but it won't be different from what I said here, just written
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 11:27:02PM -0700, Steve Mosher wrote: The GTA03 as a design had a recamping bug. it kept changing. and changes of course, are perceived as easy. after all, hardware is just like software.. I won't go through all the iterations of GTA03. But it's processor changed, the RFs changed, in the end the design had no Wifi and no GPS. Raise your hand if think that a GTA03 with no wifi and no GPS is good thing to sell to the community? Raise your hand if you think it was a mistake to kill this? Yes, I think GPS and Wifi/WLAN can be considered a requirement these days for anything else than a basic cell phone. I kind of like the GTA02.5 idea (see Tim Dobson's message) as a follow up to the GTA02: Upgrade S3C2442B to S3C6410. Take out the Glamo, including - using the S3C LCM interface for the display. - using the S3C SDIO interface for the SD card connector. This means finding somewhere else to hook up the Wifi chip (and in turn finding another Wifi chip I guess). Upgrade Calypso GSM to Cinterion MC75i. Time, space and cost permitting: Camera on S3C6410 camera interface. Stylus with middle and right mouse buttons. Increased maximum display brightness. Increased maximum speaker volume. Generally keep everything else as in GTA02v8. Most of this was already being worked on for the GTA03 - certainly the kernel patches suggest so. So I'm curious what changed so much in the intended usages of the GTA03 (compared to GTA02) that it had to be cance^W^H postponed. The Neo1973 was released in July 2007 and the Freerunner in July 2008, so with about the same number of changes for the new device as between the two previous ones, perhaps a GTA2.5 could have been out in about July 2009. It must have been more than just the volume up/down buttons that did it. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote: On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 11:27:02PM -0700, Steve Mosher wrote: The GTA03 as a design had a recamping bug. it kept changing. and changes of course, are perceived as easy. after all, hardware is just like software.. I won't go through all the iterations of GTA03. But it's processor changed, the RFs changed, in the end the design had no Wifi and no GPS. Raise your hand if think that a GTA03 with no wifi and no GPS is good thing to sell to the community? Raise your hand if you think it was a mistake to kill this? Yes, I think GPS and Wifi/WLAN can be considered a requirement these days for anything else than a basic cell phone. I kind of like the GTA02.5 idea (see Tim Dobson's message) as a follow up to the GTA02: Upgrade S3C2442B to S3C6410. Take out the Glamo, including - using the S3C LCM interface for the display. - using the S3C SDIO interface for the SD card connector. This means finding somewhere else to hook up the Wifi chip (and in turn finding another Wifi chip I guess). Upgrade Calypso GSM to Cinterion MC75i. That's pretty close to one iteration the design went through. Time, space and cost permitting: Camera on S3C6410 camera interface. Stylus with middle and right mouse buttons. Increased maximum display brightness. Increased maximum speaker volume. Design had a capacitive screen and a camera. Generally keep everything else as in GTA02v8. More had to change, like wifi chip vendor. Most of this was already being worked on for the GTA03 - certainly the kernel patches suggest so. So I'm curious what changed so much in the intended usages of the GTA03 (compared to GTA02) that it had to be cance^W^H postponed. The Neo1973 was released in July 2007 and the Freerunner in July 2008, so with about the same number of changes for the new device as between the two previous ones, perhaps a GTA2.5 could have been out in about July 2009. It must have been more than just the volume up/down buttons that did it. One of the schedules had a July Ship date, essentially as you describe. 6410, agps,wifi,camera,BT, accels. 2.5G ( after some early flirtations with 3G which just set us back ) the difficult was threefold: 1. Getting price separation from the FreeRunner. could I charge 499 for such a phone. With FreeRunner at 399 would processor bump and a camera justify a +100 dollar adder. 2. Fitting all of this inside the ID we had for the phone. The ID is complete as well as mechanical and there were issues with the latter fitting in the former without some serious work and comprimises. 3. Some manufacturing challenges for the case. a few key unknowns. 4. Antenna design issues. With all those RFs in the case we had it was a serious concern whether it would work or not. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Using 3G USB dongle [Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device]
Arigead captain.dea...@gmail.com writes:
If you could get a hold of the plastic spacer could you then take a 3.5G
USB Dongle and put that into the space? I think that 3.5G USB Dongles
I have been using E169 dongle quite a lot with freerunner. Since I did
some udev setup [1] the hassle is minimal: I just plug the dongle to
freerunner, click menu to set usb host mode and it'll automatically
connect to network.
If there's some way to automatically detect a usb device then I could
have freerunner automatically switch to host mode and avoid the need
to click anything to and have complete plug and play experience.
[1]
$ head neo/2009-04-03/etc/udev/rules.d/E169.rules
ACTION!=add, GOTO=E169_rules_end
SUBSYSTEM==usb_device, GOTO=E169_rules_real
BUS!=usb, GOTO=E169_rules_end
LABEL=E169_rules_real
SYSFS{idVendor}==12d1, SYSFS{idProduct}==1001, RUN=/usr/bin/pon E169
LABEL=E169_rules_end
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Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:27:43 -0700 Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com said: nice steve :) and yes - i put a bit of color in. :) my opinions are not those of openmoko nor do they divine om's future... it's just my interpretation of the facts as they come out :) Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into some version of the telephone game. Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo. 1. Our successes. 2. Our mistakes. 3. Our challenges I won't go over 1 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors of the presentation, had as our message. Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the balance of 2009. There were two paths: A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03 B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch project B. We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there. 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design. 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping. 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B. 4. We don't have 3X. So, we picked plan B. Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when? and what is it? Well my basic argument was and is this: First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so many times on this list: How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner? And I took the arguments I heard from disty seriously, how do you expect us to buy FR, when GTA03 is right around the corner? And I accepted the arguments I heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 in the market place. All of those arguments said put a bullet in its brain pan! So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03. I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more of the design process and the marketing process to the community. Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started. What can you do to help? 1. Move GTA02 code upstream. 2. Stay Involved. 3. Continue work on applications 4. Buy a FreeRunner. 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions Best, Steve Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org said: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Why the outrage? I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200. nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland. gta03 is postponed (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work on the software). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo. 1. Our successes. 2. Our mistakes. 3. Our challenges I won't go over 1 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors of the presentation, had as our message. Is it possible for you to upload the slides somewhere so that we can read what was presented? Or is there some video? Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Sargun Dhillon wrote: When will project B be announced? I have not made a final decision. First I need a solid schedule from engineering. That is, a schedule, with a high probability of hitting its target. Given the channels I expect to launch this in, there is no leeway for slips. I'm talking about schedule certainty down to the week if not day. Right now as a placeholder date for the announcement I have a day selected in august. On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into some version of the telephone game. Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo. 1. Our successes. 2. Our mistakes. 3. Our challenges I won't go over 1 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors of the presentation, had as our message. Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the balance of 2009. There were two paths: A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03 B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch project B. We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there. 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design. 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping. 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B. 4. We don't have 3X. So, we picked plan B. Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when? and what is it? Well my basic argument was and is this: First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so many times on this list: How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner? And I took the arguments I heard from disty seriously, how do you expect us to buy FR, when GTA03 is right around the corner? And I accepted the arguments I heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 in the market place. All of those arguments said put a bullet in its brain pan! So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03. I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more of the design process and the marketing process to the community. Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started. What can you do to help? 1. Move GTA02 code upstream. 2. Stay Involved. 3. Continue work on applications 4. Buy a FreeRunner. 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions Best, Steve Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org said: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Why the outrage? I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200. nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland. gta03 is postponed (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work on the software). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Mosher wrote: Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into some version of the telephone game. Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo. 1. Our successes. 2. Our mistakes. 3. Our challenges I won't go over 1 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors of the presentation, had as our message. Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the balance of 2009. There were two paths: A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03 B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch project B. We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there. 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design. 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping. 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B. 4. We don't have 3X. So, we picked plan B. Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when? and what is it? Well my basic argument was and is this: First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so many times on this list: How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner? And I took the arguments I heard from disty seriously, how do you expect us to buy FR, when GTA03 is right around the corner? And I accepted the arguments I heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 in the market place. All of those arguments said put a bullet in its brain pan! So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03. I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more of the design process and the marketing process to the community. Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started. What can you do to help? 1. Move GTA02 code upstream. 2. Stay Involved. 3. Continue work on applications 4. Buy a FreeRunner. 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions Best, Steve Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org said: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Why the outrage? I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200. nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland. gta03 is postponed (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work on the software). Thanks for the clarification Steve, Carsten had be worried there for a moment. Can I say that I'm using the FR as my Daily Phone and I'm as happy as a pig in shit that when I find the time I can write new apps and improve existing apps. I think most of the people on these lists appreciates the philosophy of Open Source. I for one would love for Open Moko to make that philosophy successful in the Hardware arena. Regardless of what you produce as Plan B, even if it's a hair straightener, I'll buy one. ;-) Best of luck and keep us informed. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknVvHoACgkQXlbjSJ5n4BAmAwCggEMlwYwn44NIK1+1hu9YyZit 5pgAoLhLvdecshoZfkYUQ/SKX1pdK6eR =VDOI -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Justyn Butler wrote (ao): 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone buying a non-3G Openmoko phone. What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!). While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all. What about a FR without 3G but with a 'normal' size USB2.0 port in which you can plug a 3G dongle? This has several advantages: o FR would be more free o FR would be less expensive o only one expensive heavy duty 3G contract for both your FR and your laptop o upgrading of 3G without the need for upgrading the FR FR would still have GPRS in this scenario. The USB port would be on the edge of the FR where we find the AUX button now. This would make the dongle point more or less upwards in both landscape and portrait mode. Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not found any. Any tips? With kind regards, Sander -- Humilis IT Services and Solutions http://www.humilis.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using 3G USB dongle [Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device]
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote (ao): Arigead captain.dea...@gmail.com writes: If you could get a hold of the plastic spacer could you then take a 3.5G USB Dongle and put that into the space? I think that 3.5G USB Dongles I have been using E169 dongle quite a lot with freerunner. What do you use to connect the dongle and the FR? I'm looking for a converter between the small FR port and the large dongle port. With kind regards, Sander -- Humilis IT Services and Solutions http://www.humilis.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Hi There are a lot of small usb convertissers : http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000TCSYFC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8m=A88Q2E8PA1VAL http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000TCSYES I use them with my Keyboard and usb stick, and it workds well Could someone give some link to working 3G usb dongles ? Kimaidou 2009/4/3 Sander openm...@humilis.net Justyn Butler wrote (ao): 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone buying a non-3G Openmoko phone. What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!). While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all. What about a FR without 3G but with a 'normal' size USB2.0 port in which you can plug a 3G dongle? This has several advantages: o FR would be more free o FR would be less expensive o only one expensive heavy duty 3G contract for both your FR and your laptop o upgrading of 3G without the need for upgrading the FR FR would still have GPRS in this scenario. The USB port would be on the edge of the FR where we find the AUX button now. This would make the dongle point more or less upwards in both landscape and portrait mode. Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not found any. Any tips? With kind regards, Sander -- Humilis IT Services and Solutions http://www.humilis.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
El día Friday, April 03, 2009 a las 09:48:51AM +0200, Sander escribió: What about a FR without 3G but with a 'normal' size USB2.0 port in which you can plug a 3G dongle? This has several advantages: o FR would be more free o FR would be less expensive o only one expensive heavy duty 3G contract for both your FR and your laptop o upgrading of 3G without the need for upgrading the FR FR would still have GPRS in this scenario. The USB port would be on the edge of the FR where we find the AUX button now. This would make the dongle point more or less upwards in both landscape and portrait mode. Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not found any. Any tips? Interesting. I have an USB dongle Huawei E220 which I'm using for my EeePC laptop to go to Internet via UMTS. This E220 is a small puck with a small USB connector, comes with a short (10cm) cable to connect it to a normal USB port of a laptop. I was already thinking in buying a short cable with small USB connectors on both ends (or even just something like a stick having small USB connectors on both ends without any cable) to connect this E220 as well to my FR and use the pppd in the FR... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei_E220 matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e matthias.ap...@oclc.org - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sander wrote: Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not found any. Any tips? I just use the usb micro cable that connects the FR to the PC and stick a small Gender changer on the 'normal' sized end. you could try http://www.usbfirewire.com/uconverters.html -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknVxGMACgkQXlbjSJ5n4BDBSgCghDQ1tnjg0kN/N11NGOmldSot QdMAn2+rRKyPnD1HNnFRhFxdW18fJmD7 =wk1+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
I had my FreeRunner replaced (under guarantee) by broken mini USB connector. These things are much more vulnerable than normal USB. Hence, I vote for normal USB. Matthias Apitz wrote: El día Friday, April 03, 2009 a las 09:48:51AM +0200, Sander escribió: What about a FR without 3G but with a 'normal' size USB2.0 port in which you can plug a 3G dongle? This has several advantages: o FR would be more free o FR would be less expensive o only one expensive heavy duty 3G contract for both your FR and your laptop o upgrading of 3G without the need for upgrading the FR FR would still have GPRS in this scenario. The USB port would be on the edge of the FR where we find the AUX button now. This would make the dongle point more or less upwards in both landscape and portrait mode. Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not found any. Any tips? Interesting. I have an USB dongle Huawei E220 which I'm using for my EeePC laptop to go to Internet via UMTS. This E220 is a small puck with a small USB connector, comes with a short (10cm) cable to connect it to a normal USB port of a laptop. I was already thinking in buying a short cable with small USB connectors on both ends (or even just something like a stick having small USB connectors on both ends without any cable) to connect this E220 as well to my FR and use the pppd in the FR... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei_E220 matthias ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
kimaidou wrote (ao): There are a lot of small usb convertissers : [1]http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000TCSYFC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_e ncoding=UTF8m=A88Q2E8PA1VAL [2]http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000TCSYES I use them with my Keyboard and usb stick, and it workds well Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! Could someone give some link to working 3G usb dongles ? Can't help you there, sorry. I'm about to try a Huawei E180. With kind regards, Sander -- Humilis IT Services and Solutions http://www.humilis.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
kimaidou wrote:
Hi
There are a lot of small usb convertissers :
http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000TCSYFC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8m=A88Q2E8PA1VAL
http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000TCSYFC/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8m=A88Q2E8PA1VAL
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000TCSYES
I use them with my Keyboard and usb stick, and it workds well
Could someone give some link to working 3G usb dongles ?
I think a lot of 3G usb dongles are supported by the usb/serial/option
driver. I know that was the kernel module my Huawei was using. The code
has a long list of supported devices. I've only got an old kernel open
at the moment but from the 2.6.20-19 kernel code from option.c is below.
Check out the later kernel that the FR uses as far more have been added
as far as I know.
/* Vendor and product IDs */
#define OPTION_VENDOR_ID0x0AF0
#define HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID0x12D1
#define AUDIOVOX_VENDOR_ID 0x0F3D
#define NOVATELWIRELESS_VENDOR_ID 0x1410
#define ANYDATA_VENDOR_ID 0x16d5
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_OLD 0x5000
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION 0x6000
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION2 0x6300
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA0x6500
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA2 0x6600
#define OPTION_PRODUCT_GTMAX36 0x6701
#define HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E600 0x1001
#define HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E220 0x1003
#define AUDIOVOX_PRODUCT_AIRCARD0x0112
#define NOVATELWIRELESS_PRODUCT_U7400x1400
#define ANYDATA_PRODUCT_ID 0x6501
static struct usb_device_id option_ids[] = {
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_OLD) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION2) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA2) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_GTMAX36) },
{ USB_DEVICE(HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID, HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E600) },
{ USB_DEVICE(HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID, HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E220) },
{ USB_DEVICE(AUDIOVOX_VENDOR_ID, AUDIOVOX_PRODUCT_AIRCARD) },
{ USB_DEVICE(NOVATELWIRELESS_VENDOR_ID,NOVATELWIRELESS_PRODUCT_U740) },
{ USB_DEVICE(ANYDATA_VENDOR_ID, ANYDATA_PRODUCT_ID) },
{ } /* Terminating entry */
};
static struct usb_device_id option_ids1[] = {
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_OLD) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_FUSION2) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_COBRA2) },
{ USB_DEVICE(OPTION_VENDOR_ID, OPTION_PRODUCT_GTMAX36) },
{ USB_DEVICE(HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID, HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E600) },
{ USB_DEVICE(HUAWEI_VENDOR_ID, HUAWEI_PRODUCT_E220) },
{ USB_DEVICE(AUDIOVOX_VENDOR_ID, AUDIOVOX_PRODUCT_AIRCARD) },
{ USB_DEVICE(NOVATELWIRELESS_VENDOR_ID,NOVATELWIRELESS_PRODUCT_U740) },
{ USB_DEVICE(ANYDATA_VENDOR_ID, ANYDATA_PRODUCT_ID) },
{ } /* Terminating entry */
};
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iEYEARECAAYFAknVxeUACgkQXlbjSJ5n4BB2AQCfeH8QQBtNl9Mf0+nWdqZu2+Wj
KjgAn3SLX3373R+rE6Fcw+h8au1Ssg4W
=RvBi
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
I can upload the files, but Let me tell you how we work together and you'll see why my email is probably your best bet to understand things, today. I work in words. Sean works in pictures. So by the time we are finished we have a presentation that is all pictures. and then sean talks to that. A video was done. So that's the best of all because its pictures and words. Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo. 1. Our successes. 2. Our mistakes. 3. Our challenges I won't go over 1 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors of the presentation, had as our message. Is it possible for you to upload the slides somewhere so that we can read what was presented? Or is there some video? Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using 3G USB dongle [Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device]
Sander openm...@humilis.net writes: What do you use to connect the dongle and the FR? I'm looking for a converter between the small FR port and the large dongle port. I just use the data cable that come with freerunner and a USB gender changer. This way I have minimum number of extra cables with me :-) I'd love to be able to fit USB devices inside the case but I have not looked at how to reroute USB easily inside the device. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Arigead wrote (ao): Sander wrote: Related to this I'm looking for a converter between the small USB port on the FR and a 3G USB dongle (or a USB keyboard). I've searched but not found any. Any tips? I just use the usb micro cable that connects the FR to the PC and stick a small Gender changer on the 'normal' sized end. you could try http://www.usbfirewire.com/uconverters.html Thank you Arigead. I've ordered two of these at: http://www.kabeltje.com/usb-adapter-a-female-mini-male-p-1286.html I must have used the wrong keywords in google before. With kind regards, Sander -- Humilis IT Services and Solutions http://www.humilis.net ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 07:10:00PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone buying a non-3G Openmoko phone. What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!). While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all. There won't be. I doubt there would be even if all of us here wanted such, it wouldn't be enough for it to be considered serious demand :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. I guess you mean the Glamo and that kind of thing. The GSM firmware cannot become open source, can it? Yes, glamo is a big pile of crap (too few bandwidtth, no card documentation for all practical purposes, hence no acceleration nor 3D). Rasterman's explanation that it could be done just as the GSM chip makes me more relaxed though, what I was understanding was that you'de need something more. Fortunately, it looks like it's still prohibitively far away. A curse on software patents (it's a huge minefield in 3G, thus making it a lot more expensive). Rui -- Fnord. Today is Pungenday, the 20th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Regardless of what you produce as Plan B, even if it's a hair didn't you mean: especially straightener, I'll buy one. ;-) -- Stefan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: A couple of days ago Sean made a speech at ESC. For anyone interested it is described here, with a video excerpt: http://techpulse360.com/2009/03/31/esc09-open-moko-is-the-anti-iphone-runs-google-android-but-still-no-3g/ He talks about the level of freedom the Freerunner offers people wanting to create a customized phone or those who want a development phone. He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Rui -- P'tang! Today is Boomtime, the 19th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Why the outrage? I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. Rui -- Wibble. Today is Boomtime, the 19th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) Well due to the expense it is clear that no 3G device is going to be Openmoko's main phone for a long time. No one is going to stop anyone buying a non-3G Openmoko phone. What this is suggesting, I suppose, is a 3G derivative if there was serious demand (or should I say, concrete demand in the form of a large order. I personally demand it quite seriously!). While it is a shame that the 3G part would be closed, it would clearly be a legal necessity. It would be that or no 3G version at all. I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. I guess you mean the Glamo and that kind of thing. The GSM firmware cannot become open source, can it? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
I've bought Freerunner because it's open. And I take it pretty seriously. If 3G comes only with license, I don't need it. Freerunner with fixed issues + camera for geotagged photos is an ideal phone for me. Leonti On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Why the outrage? I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. Rui -- Wibble. Today is Boomtime, the 19th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. It's interesting that we have been talking extensively about a GTA3 as the next high powered has it all device. It may well be. Let's imagine a GTA2.5 however... GTA2 with a few hardware issues solved, GPS fix time, call quality (the hardware bits), accelerated graphics! :) and the other bits and bobs... Then imagine *dropping* the price. I am not at openmoko and this will almost certainly not happen :) but remember - most FOSS devs want a *phone*, a libre *phone* - some people want internet tablets and that's life - but perhaps a GTA2.5 is an answer... It probably isn't, but the ideas there. :) Tim -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) IIUC there's no hope on the horizon to get a non-closed phone device (whether 2G as in the FR, or any other cell-phone technology), so that the 3G part would be closed is not any different from the closedness of the GSM/GPRS in the FR. I.e. it would suck, but not more than what we already have. Stefan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Monnier monn...@iro.umontreal.ca wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) IIUC there's no hope on the horizon to get a non-closed phone device (whether 2G as in the FR, or any other cell-phone technology), so that the 3G part would be closed is not any different from the closedness of the GSM/GPRS in the FR. I.e. it would suck, but not more than what we already have. How about wifi? My impression is that the closed nature of the Atheros firmware has been a large part of the wifi issues with the GTA02, despite Werner's and others' hard work. I still can't connect to my work network (WPA2 Enterprise/hidden SSID). Has anyone has gotten WPA2 Enterprise to work? Jim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Justyn Butler wrote: A couple of days ago Sean made a speech at ESC. For anyone interested it is described here, with a video excerpt: http://techpulse360.com/2009/03/31/esc09-open-moko-is-the-anti-iphone-runs-google-android-but-still-no-3g/ He talks about the level of freedom the Freerunner offers people wanting to create a customized phone or those who want a development phone. He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). Justyn. ps. At this point I'd like to say that I'd seriously consider paying up to $200 extra for a 3.5G-enabled OpenMoko phone (which, per the speech, is what it would cost). But I definitely can't order 50,000 of them. I seem to remember last year a Canadian company had made a spacer that fitted between the phone and the back cover to make the FR something like 5mm fatter. Into the extra space they'd put a Digital TV Receiver and displayed TV on the FR screen. If you could get a hold of the plastic spacer could you then take a 3.5G USB Dongle and put that into the space? I think that 3.5G USB Dongles are supported by the usb serial option driver. I've got a: Bus 002 Device 003: ID 12d1:1003 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. E220 HSDPA Modem / E270 HSDPA/HSUPA Modem plugged into this Ubuntu laptop. I did plug it into the FR running SHR and it all worked without a problem once I'd created the necessary /etc files. Is HSDPA 3.5G? Maybe it's only 3G I can't keep up with my G's. Anyhow HSDPA Dongle worked on the FR if that's of any help. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknVLVIACgkQXlbjSJ5n4BD1+wCeLZ57QJ4/ckxfptSkbFb1OpT3 sGgAn0P1sMJPZ6fPIWKunLFmg3rcL1nU =o5qB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org said: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Why the outrage? I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200. nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland. gta03 is postponed (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work on the software). -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
On Fri, 2009-04-03 at 11:10 +1100, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org said: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: ... 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200. Repeating a suggestion someone made months ago - place the gsm chipset on a (mini) daughterboard and have a cheap option (calypso) and a 3G option for those who want to pay for it. Downside is more room inside the case is likely needed, and extra costs. Taken further, from a hobyist point of view, having all major systems (GSM, GPS, WiFi, ...) pluggable would be a great idea ... Dream on ... BillK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into some version of the telephone game. Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo. 1. Our successes. 2. Our mistakes. 3. Our challenges I won't go over 1 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors of the presentation, had as our message. Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the balance of 2009. There were two paths: A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03 B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch project B. We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there. 1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design. 2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping. 3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B. 4. We don't have 3X. So, we picked plan B. Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when? and what is it? Well my basic argument was and is this: First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so many times on this list: How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner? And I took the arguments I heard from disty seriously, how do you expect us to buy FR, when GTA03 is right around the corner? And I accepted the arguments I heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03 in the market place. All of those arguments said put a bullet in its brain pan! So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03. I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more of the design process and the marketing process to the community. Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started. What can you do to help? 1. Move GTA02 code upstream. 2. Stay Involved. 3. Continue work on applications 4. Buy a FreeRunner. 5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions Best, Steve Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:35:58 +0100 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org said: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 06:13:36PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: 2009/4/2 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org: On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:38:42PM +0100, Justyn Butler wrote: He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units). You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G will get my money as far as I'm concerned :) Why the outrage? I bought the OpenMoko to get a more Free Software phone, not one that gets less and less Free as new devices come up :) I seriously hope GTA3 fixes some of the most serious problems GTA2 had regarding that. 3g can be done - just like the 2g on feeerunner - you will talk to a closed blob via a defined protocol. just like any chip anywhere. no less free than gta02 in that way. BUT yes - you'll pay an extra $200. nb gta03 - you missed the news from sean's talk at openexpo in switzerland. gta03 is postponed (read cancelled - postponed is just a nice way to say it and try and keep the community hanging around in hope it un-cancels, as openmoko has laid off most of their staff (also news from openexpo), their linux staff. you don't un-postpone if you just let all the people go who work on the software). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device
ASU was like this while people were testing and expecting new 2007 releases. Diversity was like this. It seems like FSO started like this (I could be wrong). Can the internal company communication be more open? It's annoying if every 6 months another somewhat secret project is going to come to light. It's honestly getting tiresome -- Joseph Booker signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
