Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
2008/6/27 Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] cut a lot! Our tests on GPS TTFF where quite comparable with some of the best devices available. However note there is some data GPS *has* to download from sat for virgin fix, which may take as long as 12min due to low bandwidth the sats offer (just takes this time for them to send one complete set of ephem and alm), Under good conditions all modern GPS chips have a cold start TTFF (virgin fix) of ~45secs. 12min is the value for 8 to 10 year old chips. On tests done at Taipei the TTFF was around ~40sec without(!) AGPS, IIRC. All reports on the MLs spoke about minutes or not getting a fix at all. So this is a clear sw-issue. What could be the problem then? Usually you power the GPS up and you listen on /dev/ttySAC1 for the NMEA sentences. That's how it works on the Neo1973 and every other device. What software tweaking can be made? So far i have tested 6 OpenMokos in Germany. With the internal antenna i never got a fix in less than 1min 20 secs if ever (2 hours) (Perfect conditions/ sirf3 need 36 sec cold boot). Even when i use AGPS. As soon as i attach a external antenna it easily finds a lot more satellites and connects withing 40 to 50 seconds. So i think its neither a software issue nor a satellite visibility problem but a problem with the internal antenna or the wiring to this internal antenna. Can someone test this too and affirm my results? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Kai Römer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/6/27 Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] cut a lot! So far i have tested 6 OpenMokos in Germany. With the internal antenna i never got a fix in less than 1min 20 secs if ever (2 hours) (Perfect conditions/ sirf3 need 36 sec cold boot). Even when i use AGPS. As soon as i attach a external antenna it easily finds a lot more satellites and connects withing 40 to 50 seconds. In Costa Rica I have never been able to get a fix. I never tried for longer than half an hour though. And I haven't tried with an antenna either. I should get one. Marcelo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Marcelo wrote: On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Kai Römer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/6/27 Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] cut a lot! So far i have tested 6 OpenMokos in Germany. With the internal antenna i never got a fix in less than 1min 20 secs if ever (2 hours) (Perfect conditions/ sirf3 need 36 sec cold boot). Even when i use AGPS. As soon as i attach a external antenna it easily finds a lot more satellites and connects withing 40 to 50 seconds. In Costa Rica I have never been able to get a fix. I never tried for longer than half an hour though. And I haven't tried with an antenna either. I should get one. Marcelo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community In central england I've never had a fix either. Switched to using standard shipped image and still nothing. Jon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
On Friday 04 July 2008, Jonathan Spooner wrote: Marcelo wrote: On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Kai Römer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/6/27 Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] cut a lot! So far i have tested 6 OpenMokos in Germany. With the internal antenna i never got a fix in less than 1min 20 secs if ever (2 hours) (Perfect conditions/ sirf3 need 36 sec cold boot). Even when i use AGPS. As soon as i attach a external antenna it easily finds a lot more satellites and connects withing 40 to 50 seconds. In Costa Rica I have never been able to get a fix. I never tried for longer than half an hour though. And I haven't tried with an antenna either. I should get one. Marcelo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community In central england I've never had a fix either. Switched to using standard shipped image and still nothing. Jon Works in my bit of central England. As noted elsewhere ttff is a bit slow, but probably no worse than my Garmin Geko. Tracklogs from tangogps are no worse than from the Garmin, probably better, and once it's got the fix it holds it better than the Garmin. I'll try to test them side by side over the weekend. I don't have an external antenna to compare. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
So far i have tested 6 OpenMokos in Germany. With the internal antenna i never got a fix in less than 1min 20 secs if ever (2 hours) (Perfect conditions/ sirf3 need 36 sec cold boot). Even when i use AGPS. As soon as i attach a external antenna it easily finds a lot more satellites and connects withing 40 to 50 seconds. In Costa Rica I have never been able to get a fix. I never tried for longer than half an hour though. And I haven't tried with an antenna either. I should get one. wack! but at least we know now. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Am 26.06.2008 um 18:14 schrieb arne anka: as truebox.co.uk announces having om in stock now (more or less), what about the german distributors subscribed to this list (dr schaller and c pulster at least): any news on freerunners received? Hi all, as far as I understood the Openmoko web shop will open on 4th of July. And, Openmoko, Inc. has shipped the Freerunners we have bought on 25th of June and they are currently in airfreight and customs transit. As soon as they arrive, we will add CE, Green Dot, User manual etc. and what else we have to comply to when we sell within the European Union. This may need one or two more days. If you want to be amongst the first who receive them, we are already taking preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner Happy Freerunning, Nikolaus Schaller Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.goldelico.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 02:30 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: I connect my 1973 to my car's AUX input and it sounds just fine. The issue he has is with the headset, not the jack. Either way, his assessment is true - headset quality and audio issues make using the Freerunner as a DAP impossible today. Only (partially) true for usage with low impedance headphones. This question has been asked before on the list: can you provide any pointers to such headsets? They don't seem to exist. And at least Nokia headsets with 2.5mm plug use a different wiring and don't work on the Neo. Can you please tell us which headphones are high impedance and have the same wiring? This question is kind of open since a year. Our tests on GPS TTFF where quite comparable with some of the best devices available. However note there is some data GPS *has* to download from sat for virgin fix, which may take as long as 12min due to low bandwidth the sats offer (just takes this time for them to send one complete set of ephem and alm), Under good conditions all modern GPS chips have a cold start TTFF (virgin fix) of ~45secs. 12min is the value for 8 to 10 year old chips. On tests done at Taipei the TTFF was around ~40sec without(!) AGPS, IIRC. All reports on the MLs spoke about minutes or not getting a fix at all. So this is a clear sw-issue. What could be the problem then? Usually you power the GPS up and you listen on /dev/ttySAC1 for the NMEA sentences. That's how it works on the Neo1973 and every other device. What software tweaking can be made? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
--- On Fri, 6/27/08, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (...troll-hunting/killing...) To me he looks quite trollish. I think so too, but thanks for the in depth and clear reply! Boudewijn ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
If you want to be amongst the first who receive them, we are already taking preorders: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner well, i preordered through group sale-trisoft. at least i hope so -- i sent the money to the guy organizing the group sale a while ago, he seemed perferctly legit, being ceo or so of a local company ... ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Am Freitag, 27. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Reisenweber: No we HAVE an issue with decoupling caps in FR (simply too small and cheap). However it depends on type of headphones used (impedance), and it's absolutely fine for line-out usage, like connecting to the car, home stereo etc. Or to a portable headphone amplifier like this one: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/headsix-head-fi-support-sales-action-261529/ I have been using one of these with my iPod for over a year now and the improvement combined with good headphones is very noticeable. I don't even use high-end headphones, just the usual mid-range Sony DJ headphones (~50-80 EUR) Sure it's bulky and one more box to carry around, but the usual mobile devices with their low voltage batteries will probably never be able to drive proper headphones with enough current anyway. So all I need on any future mobile device is a decent line out. regards, Andreas Micklei ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From what I've heard, SOME distributors have been notified that Freerunner devices are being shipped to those retailers. Retailers need to have a product in stock in order to sell it on the day it is released, that is what is happening now. The Freerunners are being shipped to them. Which firmware has been loaded into those devices that have been shipped? Can someone please provide an URL for downloads? I'd be interested in looking at what a consumer will see when they power up their shiny new phone. Thanks, Marcelo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
me too... I would like to try it out :P BTW: can I be sure that I will be able to make a phone call without problems or is it still under development? It was not so clear to me due to high confusion made about this topic in the mailing list... 2008/6/26 Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From what I've heard, SOME distributors have been notified that Freerunner devices are being shipped to those retailers. Retailers need to have a product in stock in order to sell it on the day it is released, that is what is happening now. The Freerunners are being shipped to them. Which firmware has been loaded into those devices that have been shipped? Can someone please provide an URL for downloads? I'd be interested in looking at what a consumer will see when they power up their shiny new phone. Thanks, Marcelo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Marcelo wrote: On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From what I've heard, SOME distributors have been notified that Freerunner devices are being shipped to those retailers. Retailers need to have a product in stock in order to sell it on the day it is released, that is what is happening now. The Freerunners are being shipped to them. Which firmware has been loaded into those devices that have been shipped? Can someone please provide an URL for downloads? I'd be interested in looking at what a consumer will see when they power up their shiny new phone. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cat /etc/version 200804240820 This is what is on the devices we have received, and is not an ASU image. It is very similar to Kevin's last recommended release reviewed at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/2008-04-21 Judging by the date in the filename I expect it's the image at: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ Daily builds can be found under http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Peter Strapp wrote: I sure hope it's for sale as I have a UPS tracking number from Truebox (UK Openmoko Distributor) that says that it has been collected from them. I'm hoping it will be in my hands tomorrow. Their website also states that the first batch of Freerunners have been sent to customers (https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko). First boot! (sorry, I couldn't resist) I received my FreeRunner from Truebox today :) A few very quick pictures here: http://www.snmoore.net/openmoko/pictures/freerunner/ Cheers, Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
It's interesting... Your pictures are on a wood background too. :) I'm jealous... I didn't get a green band around my box... It's so fitting with the ASU theme. :) On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Simon Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Strapp wrote: I sure hope it's for sale as I have a UPS tracking number from Truebox (UK Openmoko Distributor) that says that it has been collected from them. I'm hoping it will be in my hands tomorrow. Their website also states that the first batch of Freerunners have been sent to customers (https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko). First boot! (sorry, I couldn't resist) I received my FreeRunner from Truebox today :) A few very quick pictures here: http://www.snmoore.net/openmoko/pictures/freerunner/ Cheers, Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Oh man! so very jealous (in the good way) Would it be too much to ask you to take a vid and share it? please? Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - Kevin Dean escribi: It's interesting... Your pictures are on a wood background too. :) I'm jealous... I didn't get a green band around my box... It's so fitting with the ASU theme. :) On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Simon Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Strapp wrote: I sure hope it's for sale as I have a UPS tracking number from Truebox (UK Openmoko Distributor) that says that it has been collected from them. I'm hoping it will be in my hands tomorrow. Their website also states that the first batch of Freerunners have been sent to customers (https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko). First boot! (sorry, I couldn't resist) I received my FreeRunner from Truebox today :) A few very quick pictures here: http://www.snmoore.net/openmoko/pictures/freerunner/ Cheers, Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Waiting for a review from a user ;) I'm a bit undecided about buying... I was wandering if buying as soon as I'm sure it works well or get it as soon as possible :P Some discussion on ML has scared me a bit :( 2008/6/26 Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's interesting... Your pictures are on a wood background too. :) I'm jealous... I didn't get a green band around my box... It's so fitting with the ASU theme. :) On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Simon Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Strapp wrote: I sure hope it's for sale as I have a UPS tracking number from Truebox (UK Openmoko Distributor) that says that it has been collected from them. I'm hoping it will be in my hands tomorrow. Their website also states that the first batch of Freerunners have been sent to customers (https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko). First boot! (sorry, I couldn't resist) I received my FreeRunner from Truebox today :) A few very quick pictures here: http://www.snmoore.net/openmoko/pictures/freerunner/ Cheers, Simon ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
arne anka schrieb: as truebox.co.uk announces having om in stock now (more or less), what about the german distributors subscribed to this list (dr schaller and c pulster at least): any news on freerunners received? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I got a mail from trisoft.de that they will start sending phones on 4th of july. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Mike Montour wrote: Jisakiel wrote: - I understand the only problem precluding it as a DAP player is the speaker not muting? Or *with headphones* it is mono? I understood GTA02 to have a single speaker but to be stereo capable with headphones... I'd be devastated if wrong, or if other severe quality issues existed (such as perhaps a noisy codec, or an insufficient sampling frequency, or who knows); the problem reported on the ticket sounds at least as doable, without knowing anything else. As I understand it the main problem is that a capacitor in series with the headphone output is too small, which means that low-frequency audio is cut off (the capacitor + the resistance of the headphones forms a high-pass filter). This is consistent with Kevin's observation that it sounded OK when connected to an Aux on another amplifier, because the resistance of that input is much higher than that of headphones. So? No way to get it working with some kind of headphones? This is not a good news to me! :( headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works I'm not an audio-maniac, but I'd like to hear by both my ears! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
For those who aren't afraid of a little hacking (once I have a freerunner), I'm sure it would be possible to cut a couple traces or unsolder the original capacitors. Then replace them with something else. Like how people have been known to replace the stock capacitors in an ipod with the infamous black magicgates (audiophile approved caps? You can google them...). There small and users have been able to fit them inside the small space of an ipod. Also, whats the possibility of using bluetooth headphones? I'm sure once the freerunner is made fully available to the community, the Openmoko team may find much help from the community in resolving any bugs that may pop up. Just as how linux is as great as it is today. On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Montour wrote: Jisakiel wrote: - I understand the only problem precluding it as a DAP player is the speaker not muting? Or *with headphones* it is mono? I understood GTA02 to have a single speaker but to be stereo capable with headphones... I'd be devastated if wrong, or if other severe quality issues existed (such as perhaps a noisy codec, or an insufficient sampling frequency, or who knows); the problem reported on the ticket sounds at least as doable, without knowing anything else. As I understand it the main problem is that a capacitor in series with the headphone output is too small, which means that low-frequency audio is cut off (the capacitor + the resistance of the headphones forms a high-pass filter). This is consistent with Kevin's observation that it sounded OK when connected to an Aux on another amplifier, because the resistance of that input is much higher than that of headphones. So? No way to get it working with some kind of headphones? This is not a good news to me! :( headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works I'm not an audio-maniac, but I'd like to hear by both my ears! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Am Do 26. Juni 2008 schrieb Kevin Dean: *** audio quailty on the headphone is lousy due to a hardware bug - as mp3 player useless *** Quality rating is prone to individual bias. Well, for nerds there will be projects similar to this one http://www.redwineaudio.com/iMod.html or this one http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/apple-diymod-my-take-famous-imod-56k-killer-featuring-3g-4g-5g-nano-1g-269604/ I will come up with a DIY primer on how to cope with these way to lousy caps inside FR. Anyway there are ways to use the FR as a decent MP3-player without any mod at all, for all but the most high-end-audiophiles. A bug I reported (http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1377) means it fails at being a personal audio player for now. The headset that came in the box with the 1973 and the Freerunner aren't particularly good, but that's ENTIRELY a subjective thing. No we HAVE an issue with decoupling caps in FR (simply too small and cheap). However it depends on type of headphones used (impedance), and it's absolutely fine for line-out usage, like connecting to the car, home stereo etc. I connect my 1973 to my car's AUX input and it sounds just fine. The issue he has is with the headset, not the jack. Either way, his assessment is true - headset quality and audio issues make using the Freerunner as a DAP impossible today. Only (partially) true for usage with low impedance headphones. *** headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works *** This is wrong, mmontour corrected it it on Slashdot. Yep, definitely. I used it for MP3-player (with original headset), and it wasn't THAT bad. Lower frequencies quite weak with low-Z-hs and on standard EQ-setting. I'm used to $600-headphones, so I noticed this. YMMV. Stereo anyway, so this is wrong info. *** headphone unusable for making phone calls due to EM-interferences *** Not sure if it's EM interference, but all the software I've used simply couldn't route the GSM stuff to the headset. I'm assuming it's a software issue but this is true in my experience, the included headset can't be used to make calls. No, it's true, it's EMI to the mic. Probably you can fix it with a ferrite block on headset cable near to the jack (well, not quite nice... but as long as it helps. Not tested yet though - by me). *** GPS has 10 minutes TTFF - yes, in 2008 where every cheapo GPS gets a fix in 45secs *** I've not gotten a fix EVER on the GPS - it's a software issue, I assume because I've gotten the GPS hardware to respond while poking at it. Our tests on GPS TTFF where quite comparable with some of the best devices available. However note there is some data GPS *has* to download from sat for virgin fix, which may take as long as 12min due to low bandwidth the sats offer (just takes this time for them to send one complete set of ephem and alm), and this download needs signal 30dB better than that for mere position fix. On tests done at Taipei the TTFF was around ~40sec without(!) AGPS, IIRC. So this is a clear sw-issue. *** developer community alienated by Lauer Co. GNOME knew why they kicked Rasterman out. *** Actually, this one might be trolling. I don't know about social politics, and frankly don't care. True or not, it's not relevant to the hardware sucking or being amazing. Dunno whether Carsten and Mickey consider it worth to answer this. If they do, it'll make may day ;-) *** so called ASU software is pre-alpha and reinventing the wheel once again *** Fact. So what. Everybody knows. Never anybody stated anything different. To me he looks quite trollish. cheers jOERG signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
nerdyH writes Openmoko has begun shipping its Linux-based, open source Neo Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, France, and India, says the company. /me checks Gmail and finds nothing on the announce list so heart recommences beating. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
The rumors of the Freerunner being on sale have been greatly exagerated. From what I've heard, SOME distributors have been notified that Freerunner devices are being shipped to those retailers. Retailers need to have a product in stock in order to sell it on the day it is released, that is what is happening now. The Freerunners are being shipped to them. For the end user, absoluely nothing has changed since yesterday. The reason the Openmoko web store hasn't been updated yet is because the Freerunner isn't for sale yet. :) That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype going... On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nerdyH writes Openmoko has begun shipping its Linux-based, open source Neo Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, France, and India, says the company. /me checks Gmail and finds nothing on the announce list so heart recommences beating. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 | Of course, they link to a dead page.. actually they didn't always link to a dead page .. when I read the news, there were some links .. since I'm from germany, I only visited the german retailers which are: http://trisoft.de/freerunner.htm http://www.goldendeli.com/Home.html and http://www.pulster.de/index.htm?d__freerunner___b_OpenMoko_Freerunner_299_eur__b_991.htm don't know why they disappeared from the article, but these were the links I found once :) regards martin -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkhir/kACgkQDUs+3GH8IfXkGgCaAyxWugMdATdyGn/3Ic9kIkTn 15EAnA10tEsQJNP1fNjMI/7JAbHHfY5B =wCRU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
I sure hope it's for sale as I have a UPS tracking number from Truebox (UK Openmoko Distributor) that says that it has been collected from them. I'm hoping it will be in my hands tomorrow. Their website also states that the first batch of Freerunners have been sent to customers (https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko). Kevin Dean wrote: The rumors of the Freerunner being on sale have been greatly exagerated. From what I've heard, SOME distributors have been notified that Freerunner devices are being shipped to those retailers. Retailers need to have a product in stock in order to sell it on the day it is released, that is what is happening now. The Freerunners are being shipped to them. For the end user, absoluely nothing has changed since yesterday. The reason the Openmoko web store hasn't been updated yet is because the Freerunner isn't for sale yet. :) That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype going... On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nerdyH writes Openmoko has begun shipping its Linux-based, open source Neo Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, France, and India, says the company. /me checks Gmail and finds nothing on the announce list so heart recommences beating. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype going... Not all of it good, If anyone has mod points on slashdot can they mod this guy down? http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=595147cid=23939209 He's obviously registered that account just now to troll on the project. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't there because this stage is intended for people writing those features. That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early stage too. :) Point by point: ** old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station, eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me if they (openmoko) got the chips for free, as they are so ancient - no EDGE, GPRS w/ 2KB/s. Openmoko is likely the last buyer. ** This may actually be truish. From what I understand, 3G GSM modules are essentially 100% closed, non-free or restrictive. Take your pick. Openmoko's goals are openness and the current landscape doesn't allow that to be met with 3G. This is why there's a potentially ancient system. The Model T got people around. :) This ancient GSM module makes calls and sends SMS messages just fine. The battery thing is being dealt with, it's a matter of the software. *** audio quailty on the headphone is lousy due to a hardware bug - as mp3 player useless *** A bug I reported (http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1377) means it fails at being a personal audio player for now. The headset that came in the box with the 1973 and the Freerunner aren't particularly good, but that's ENTIRELY a subjective thing. I connect my 1973 to my car's AUX input and it sounds just fine. The issue he has is with the headset, not the jack. Either way, his assessment is true - headset quality and audio issues make using the Freerunner as a DAP impossible today. *** headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works *** This is wrong, mmontour corrected it it on Slashdot. *** headphone unusable for making phone calls due to EM-interferences *** Not sure if it's EM interference, but all the software I've used simply couldn't route the GSM stuff to the headset. I'm assuming it's a software issue but this is true in my experience, the included headset can't be used to make calls. *** no bluetooth headset support *** Again, a software issue. There is a bluetooth profit to play audio through headsets, I'm assuming that can work on Openmoko hardware but hasn't been adapted to do that yet. *** no bluetooth keyboard support (dropped since last version) *** Software issue. ScaredyCat's images do it quite easily. But the ASU (latest version) and the FSO do not. *** graphics sluggish and even slower than Neo 1973 despite 2D accel chip *** Fact. *** GPS has 10 minutes TTFF - yes, in 2008 where every cheapo GPS gets a fix in 45secs *** I've not gotten a fix EVER on the GPS - it's a software issue, I assume because I've gotten the GPS hardware to respond while poking at it. *** developer community alienated by Lauer Co. GNOME knew why they kicked Rasterman out. *** Actually, this one might be trolling. I don't know about social politics, and frankly don't care. True or not, it's not relevant to the hardware sucking or being amazing. *** so called ASU software is pre-alpha and reinventing the wheel once again *** Fact. On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype going... Not all of it good, If anyone has mod points on slashdot can they mod this guy down? http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=595147cid=23939209 He's obviously registered that account just now to troll on the project. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
I do not entirely agree with you on this one: In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't there because this stage is intended for people writing those features. It states in the wiki (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner) clearly: *The Neo FreeRunner is a GNU/Linux based touch screen smart phone aimed at general consumer use as well as GNU/Linux desktop users and GNU/Linux software developers. *I agree it is not yet ready for the masses, but I do expect the hardware to be capable and sufficient once the software has been taken care of. The neo1973 hardware was for developers. The FreeRunner is for developers AND users. I expect that in due time the gsm (call, sms, mms), gps, wifi and Bluetooth will be fully functional and I want a smooth UI on a phone with a medium battery lifetime. I do realise that it will take some time and I will be patient. But if that is never going to happen, then Openmoko should have informed his intended users better. I have not yet read a anything that said these goals could not be reached (with a sufficient amount of time and effort). Have a little faith ;-) y On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't there because this stage is intended for people writing those features. That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early stage too. :) Point by point: ** old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station, eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me if they (openmoko) got the chips for free, as they are so ancient - no EDGE, GPRS w/ 2KB/s. Openmoko is likely the last buyer. ** This may actually be truish. From what I understand, 3G GSM modules are essentially 100% closed, non-free or restrictive. Take your pick. Openmoko's goals are openness and the current landscape doesn't allow that to be met with 3G. This is why there's a potentially ancient system. The Model T got people around. :) This ancient GSM module makes calls and sends SMS messages just fine. The battery thing is being dealt with, it's a matter of the software. *** audio quailty on the headphone is lousy due to a hardware bug - as mp3 player useless *** A bug I reported (http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1377) means it fails at being a personal audio player for now. The headset that came in the box with the 1973 and the Freerunner aren't particularly good, but that's ENTIRELY a subjective thing. I connect my 1973 to my car's AUX input and it sounds just fine. The issue he has is with the headset, not the jack. Either way, his assessment is true - headset quality and audio issues make using the Freerunner as a DAP impossible today. *** headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works *** This is wrong, mmontour corrected it it on Slashdot. *** headphone unusable for making phone calls due to EM-interferences *** Not sure if it's EM interference, but all the software I've used simply couldn't route the GSM stuff to the headset. I'm assuming it's a software issue but this is true in my experience, the included headset can't be used to make calls. *** no bluetooth headset support *** Again, a software issue. There is a bluetooth profit to play audio through headsets, I'm assuming that can work on Openmoko hardware but hasn't been adapted to do that yet. *** no bluetooth keyboard support (dropped since last version) *** Software issue. ScaredyCat's images do it quite easily. But the ASU (latest version) and the FSO do not. *** graphics sluggish and even slower than Neo 1973 despite 2D accel chip *** Fact. *** GPS has 10 minutes TTFF - yes, in 2008 where every cheapo GPS gets a fix in 45secs *** I've not gotten a fix EVER on the GPS - it's a software issue, I assume because I've gotten the GPS hardware to respond
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
It breaks my heart to hear such news on the current state. As a matter of fact I'd be one of those developers trying to build software on it (just been researching lately while trying to choose a platform), but it certainly sounds as quite broken and not nearly finished enough to base some software on it *right now*. I underscore that: it's not that it couldn't become something huge, is just that it's not ready yet. - I understand the only problem precluding it as a DAP player is the speaker not muting? Or *with headphones* it is mono? I understood GTA02 to have a single speaker but to be stereo capable with headphones... I'd be devastated if wrong, or if other severe quality issues existed (such as perhaps a noisy codec, or an insufficient sampling frequency, or who knows); the problem reported on the ticket sounds at least as doable, without knowing anything else. - Not having 3G is something unimportant for me, and I'd guess I'm not the only one. To call over 3G network just chews more rapidly the battery, and data charges are outrageous, while having a wifi solves the internet access part for me quite well - specially hoping aircrack to be ported to the moko as they are quite a match ;). A different problem would be if the GSM is unreliable, or the mobile phone burns through the battery because it doesn't suspend well ;) . For me (a personal opinion again) 2 days on standby with a year old battery is acceptable, although clearly not optimal (as I've been using symbian mobiles for a long time ;)); however 5 hours is clearly *not*. I think common sense rules here; nobody expects the spanish...^W^W a week of battery on a smartphone, but it has to stand a day outside with some talking. Although I understand those to be solvable problems -at least in principle; I was never able to reliable suspend my old laptop-, trouble is that while they are not done the platform is not solid enough to base serious development on it. Specially on a phone, where usability counts so much more, if you cannot use it you cannot test properly anything running on it, or at least it's quite tougher to *sell* your program on that platform. *Sell*, as in *to your examination tribunal*, which is which worries me right now (and sorry for the egocentrism). Just as with my laptop, which I wasn't able to use linux on it for much more than toying with it until those issues got solved (actually until I changed my laptop; only when it suspends *every time* you close the lid you can start selling the virtues of free software to the common man). I understand -and believe- stabilizing the API and solving those problems must be #1 priority right now, and giving some sleepless nights to more than one ;). API must be a huge nightmare, being that the nice thing on standards is that there are so many to choose from (old gtk apps, qtopia with it's associated software layers, and the new framework being developed which I don't know when will it be ready). Yes, I know: if I want it to work, I'll better get my hands dirty. And I ceirtanly will, as soon as I get my hands on one of them (any known retailer in Spain?). I just fear that a commercial developer - or a CS student doing its final university project with a couple of extra souls ;)- cannot trust yet on the platform to make a heavy investment (on time, on money, whatever) expecting returns, as it seems not solid enough. Of course, no pain no gain... As well, as another poster said: GTA02 was supposed to be the consumer grade version on its mass sale date (ID4 :P), with GTA01 being the hardware beta. I guess that didn't go as planned (or perhaps I am terribly uninformed - but july seems so close... :P). --- El jue, 26/6/08, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: De: Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: Slashdot post but no web store? Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Fecha: jueves, 26 junio, 2008 12:44 In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't there because this stage is intended for people writing those features. That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early stage too. :) Point by point: ** old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station, eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me if they (openmoko) got the chips for free
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
Jisakiel wrote: - I understand the only problem precluding it as a DAP player is the speaker not muting? Or *with headphones* it is mono? I understood GTA02 to have a single speaker but to be stereo capable with headphones... I'd be devastated if wrong, or if other severe quality issues existed (such as perhaps a noisy codec, or an insufficient sampling frequency, or who knows); the problem reported on the ticket sounds at least as doable, without knowing anything else. As I understand it the main problem is that a capacitor in series with the headphone output is too small, which means that low-frequency audio is cut off (the capacitor + the resistance of the headphones forms a high-pass filter). This is consistent with Kevin's observation that it sounded OK when connected to an Aux on another amplifier, because the resistance of that input is much higher than that of headphones. I don't know the actual cutoff frequency or how it compares to other products on the market. Also, I don't have a Freerunner so I'm just basing this on what I've read on the lists. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It states in the wiki (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner) clearly: The Neo FreeRunner is a GNU/Linux based touch screen smart phone aimed at general consumer use as well as GNU/Linux desktop users and GNU/Linux software developers. The Freerunner is indeed the device aimed at both consumers and devs. I'm not saying it is not. What I am saying is that this release, the one that will happen within a matter of weeks, is intended for developers. There was a problem in the beginning about how the media reported (and I'll say that Openmoko not correcting this was a problem too) that the 1973 hardware would be developer only but reported that the Freerunner, once released, would be a mass market device and THIS IS NOT TRUE. The Freerunner + software WILL be released as a mass market device at some point but there was no intention, statement or plan to release a FUNCTIONAL Freerunner the moment there was a Freerunner. The marketing plan (as the wiki reflects) is that The Freerunner will be a device marketed to the general public. What the author, and MANY people assumed is Since this device is intended for the mass market, it will be fully functional if I can buy it. I agree it is not yet ready for the masses, but I do expect the hardware to be capable and sufficient once the software has been taken care of. The neo1973 hardware was for developers. The FreeRunner is for developers AND users. I agree as well. As an owner of both devices, I'm pretty darn sure it's a good deal. :) The problem, as I noted in most of those cases, is missing hardware - the author assumed he should be able to do everything and he cant. What goes on sale soon is the FreeRunner hardware not, A Freerunner running software that gives it functionality. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. :) I love Openmoko and the project's directives. I like that there's a company building Free Software powered phones and I'm willing to pay to support the continuation of that. :) However, I think that by hyping Openmoko when it's not ready will lead a LOT of people to be disappointed, as that author was. This is obviously because of false assumptions, but valid or not, that author's opinion was read by some people which may make them question a future purpose. I just want to make sure that people understand what is happening. Freerunner is a hardware device and it goes on sale soon. Openmoko is a software stack for embedded devices. Freerunner is ready, Openmoko is not. People who don't get that shouldn't be mislead into thinking somethign else is the case - moderating that guys comments would have been (in my eyes) doing that since what he said isn't actually inaccurate, just based on I expect that in due time the gsm (call, sms, mms), gps, wifi and Bluetooth will be fully functional and I want a smooth UI on a phone with a medium battery lifetime. I do realise that it will take some time and I will be patient. But if that is never going to happen, then Openmoko should have informed his intended users better. This will happen. There is no hardware reason why it can't happen. All of the shortcomings the guy mentioned are, as far as we know, a problem that the software isn't ready. The headphones silencing the speakers thing, I think, is because there's no ALSA setting for headset. The lack of bluetooth audio is because the Bluetooth Audio profile hasn't been ported yet. That's kind of my point though - you and I understand that the HARDWARE is on sale now, but the author didn't. What he said is true - those things do not work right now. His premise, not the hardware, was flawed. I have not yet read a anything that said these goals could not be reached (with a sufficient amount of time and effort). Have a little faith ;-) Faith has little to do with it. There's a passionate community and I'll put a lot of stock into that. y On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't there because this stage is intended for people writing those features. That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early stage too. :) Point by point: ** old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station, eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me
Re: Slashdot post but no web store?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/25/1751228from=rss nerdyH writes Openmoko has begun shipping its Linux-based, open source Neo Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, France, and India, says the company. The Neo Freerunner features an open hardware design, and a Linux-based operating system that users are free to modify. The project originally hoped to produce a mass-market offering last October. The $400 Freerunner will remain available direct, online, too. A 2.5G GPRS/GSM phone like the original iPhone, it boasts a 500MHz processor, WiFi, 3D accelerometers, a 4.3-inch VGA touchscreen, Bluetooth, and built-in GPS. Of course, they link to a dead page.. http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9978560959.html I love all the comments from people who've bought iPhones incensed at suggestions that it's any sort of superior device. Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I've been checking https://direct.openmoko.com/ every couple hours which hasn't changed in some time. I see that http://openmoko.com/store.html tells a different story and I may have to check it quite often now too.(Ok, not really every couple hours but it seems like it some times) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
