Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
And if it frees up developer resources to doing just hardware and kernel support by not doing a huge effort like OE-based Om2007.2/Om2008/Om2009 on the software distribution, I'm all for it. hmmm. on htcdream, having something half-usable was so hard... for instance: No alsa driver shipped with the android kernel. Thanks to codeaurora/qualcomm for writing an alsa driver...but I spent countless hours trying to debug it(with printks)... At the end it worked but it was far from easy. wifi(we spent a long time looking at kernel config),GPS(I was only a tester/dumper),real-suspend(the offending commit was found by alain2210 after a very long git bisect) etc each thing to make work was hard...(but in another hand I'm a kernel newbie) Thanks to leviathan,mickeyl,alain2210,phh,Thingol etc... for the help!!! now it's a lot more usable, and I look forward for: *GPS integration in FSO(should be done very soon) *fix the remaining buffer underruns in alsa(fix avaliable but I wasn't able to make it work) *keyboard mapping *wifi PSM Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
Hi, I have been watching the conversation about Android and its openness, and I think that Timo's answer is the closest. You should also remember that while Android is associated with Google, and certainly they had the greatest say of it, that other companies of the Open Handset Alliance also had input to Android and how it unfolded. Finally, Android is a sample implementation. The ones who last touch it before it goes on a device are the handset manufacturers. They are the ones who really determine what device drivers are used. And they, in turn, are affected by the component manufacturers and what they will allow to be released in the way of sources or even information on the devices. Finally, the carriers also have a hand in this. The carriers really do not want to see an open phone, where people can change the OS. They fear it, and perhaps for some good reasons (or what they think are good reasonsbut are really not so good reasons) such as network security. This is why most of the phones not only are locked, but also use only signed binaries. I doubt that the manufacturers care about signed binaries (although it might cut down a bit on warranty support costs) and they definitely do not care about locked phones (other than unlocked phones might piss off their favorite customers, the carriers). Looking at the original OHA, you see the unholy alliance: o component manufacturers (some infamous for how closed they are) o handset manufacturers (HTC) o codec manufacturers and licensors o carriers and finally Google (one ring to bind them all) the drum-beater. But like a lot of drum-beaters, they could only beat the drumthey were bound by contracts and agreements to do things. Even the mighty Google can not do everything they want to do. Google's (and the OHA's) methodology in engaging the community was not the best IMHO, but also can be explained by the way that the project evolved. I think that Chromium OS is going along much nicer, and I still hope that Android will eventually evolve into a real Open Source project.assuming that Oracle does not kill Android at the same time that they try to kill JAVA. Of course some people may still argue that Android is not open. I am not going to waste my time with that argument, but I just wanted to put a few more facts into the evaluation. Warmest regards, md P.S. for those of you who might be interested, I am typing this from the Amsterdam airport on my way to the FrOSCon 2010 conference in Bonn, Germany this weekend. Perhaps I will see some of you there. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
[cut] and finally Google (one ring to bind them all) the drum-beater. But like a lot of drum-beaters, they could only beat the drumthey were bound by contracts and agreements to do things. Even the mighty Google can not do everything they want to do. Great summary :) [cut] -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments Email secured by Check Point ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
On 20 Aug 2010 10:55:00 +0200 openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) (CP) wrote: Google can not do everything they want to do. They photograph my home without my permission, anyone can photo your house without your permission. as for google, afaik you can file a request not to be displayed. P. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 5:58 AM, Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.de wrote: Please note Android is a Google(TM) product. TM stands for total monopol. Or terrible monster. Google is evil. Android is no free OS. By what definition of free is Android not a free OS? Jim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
Please note Android is a Google(TM) product. TM stands for total monopol. Or terrible monster. Google is evil. Android is no free OS. By what definition of free is Android not a free OS? by free as in speech. it's not 100% open -- important parts of the os, namely hw drivers, are closed. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
Please note Linux is a Torvalds (TM). TM stands for total monopol. Or terrible monster. Torvalds is evil. Linux is no free OS. huh ? ok, troll. please, lets leave him there. dont respond to this mail ! $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
On Thursday 19 August 2010, Jim Ancona wrote: On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 5:58 AM, Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.de wrote: Please note Android is a Google(TM) product. TM stands for total monopol. Or terrible monster. Google is evil. Android is no free OS. By what definition of free is Android not a free OS? That depends on your definition of Android. Most people think of Android as what you get on an Android handset, and that includes non-free (binary-only non-redistributable) drivers and core applications like the Marketplace. People making modified firmware images have been prevented from including these in their images by Google, so they have to work around by backing up the original binaries before flashing, then restoring them. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:43 PM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: Please note Android is a Google(TM) product. TM stands for total monopol. Or terrible monster. Google is evil. Android is no free OS. By what definition of free is Android not a free OS? by free as in speech. it's not 100% open -- important parts of the os, namely hw drivers, are closed. True with respect to most phones, because hardware manufacturers don't release their drivers. Not true with respect to the Freerunner. In any case, Android is exactly as free as Linux is, because you would have exactly the same problem running any Linux-based OS on that hardware, correct? So Linux is not free by your definition. Jim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
2010/8/20 Jim Ancona j...@anconafamily.com: True with respect to most phones, because hardware manufacturers don't release their drivers. Not true with respect to the Freerunner. In any case, Android is exactly as free as Linux is, because you would have exactly the same problem running any Linux-based OS on that hardware, correct? So Linux is not free by your definition. I think the confusion usually arises from the fact that Android is usually used to indicate devices sold with Android. No Android shipping phone runs on just free software (on the main CPU) currently, except if all the limits with HTC Dream, which I think people have been hacking on the most, have been surpassed. But there are also other aspects than being free or non-free, like being a successful open-source project in terms of open development, external developers in the core components (besides kernel) et cetera. In that sense I and probably many others still very much prefer GNU-userland / something-we-all-know-better type of distributions over Android software. On the other hand, talking from hardware vendor point of view, free and ready touch device softwares are still a bit lacking, so Android could be a solution for something to ship on the device, similar to Om2007.2. Remember that if doing some FreeRunner successor kind of thing, it doesn't matter that much what is shipped with it. And if it frees up developer resources to doing just hardware and kernel support by not doing a huge effort like OE-based Om2007.2/Om2008/Om2009 on the software distribution, I'm all for it. But if the vendor is going to build some application software, I'd vote for doing that for some other platform than Android stack, if for nothing else then for increasing competition in the free software touch/mobile applications. By the time any successor hardware would be available, MeeGo with handheld packages is probably anyway a better starting place, since it's a true GNU/Linux distro. I'm not saying Android has serious flaws, I just strongly think that the longer roots in the open world the better for the healthiness of the open software. Big piles of code-dropped code takes time to become an open project, similar to what we'll certainly see with Symbian that is now all open. Personally I'd go for Debian all the way but I know the real-world-use touch applications will first arrive somewhere else and only later will be packaged on Debian, like we do in the pkg-fso group. But if the vendor would like to spend some time on the distribution software as well, I think Debian is The way to go for longevity of the product and its software. As a major component of it involves getting all the kernel code upstream :) -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko
2010/8/14 Christoph Pulster openm...@pulster.de: PS: I heard on IRC something about next Openmoko phone running Android. I think, it's a good idea. Please note Android is a Google(TM) product. TM stands for total monopol. Or terrible monster. Google is evil. Android is no free OS. I agree. But Openmoko Inc. need sales like every hardware company. It can use Android's fame for second start-up and make open hardware more attractive to lot of people. Martin 'Martix' Holec ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WikiReader sales and the future of Openmoko Was: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing
Am 13.08.2010 um 17:08 schrieb Martix: Hi community, I want to share a few news about WikiReader and Openmoko Inc. I am publishing with permission my short interview with Sean Moss-Pultz the CEO of Openmoko Inc.: ___ May I have a question? How is it going with WikiReader? Are WikiReader sales satisfactory? Much better than expected. We're getting into major US retailers this summer. And launching in Japan tomorrow. We've already sold 4x the total number of FreeRunners. And we're just getting into the channel now. So I'm quite excited about our chances with this product! That is good news! I wonder if you and your company are planning to create more open source/open design devices, maybe successor of Neo? Absolutely! WikiReader is fundamental to this. What we're doing is getting our channel setup. To survive in consumer electronics you need volume. And still, the only way to get volume is through retail stores. So everything we're doing is focusing on making that successful. Then we can build more product that stand for the same principles (open) that got us started. ___ Regards, Martin 'Martix' Holec PS: I heard on IRC something about next Openmoko phone running Android. I think, it's a good idea. Android will provide stable software and community can port existing fully open distributions like SHR, Qt Moko etc., which it should be easier on open hardware. After experience with Neo FreeRunner it seems like better plan. If a new Openmoko phone is based on the OMAP3 like the BeagleBoard, there are at least 3 different Android ports (in addition to anything else like SHR, QtMoko, Debian, FreeBSD, ...). One of them is Rowboat (http://code.google.com/p/rowboat/wiki/BeagleBoard). Another project just today announced this on the beagleboard.org list: Hi, We are pleased to release the Android - Froyo port for OMAP-3530 BeagleBoard. This release enables developers evaluate CoreDruid's custom Android-Froyo port for BeagleBoard. This release has minimum set of features like 1. Android Froyo 2. Qwerty keyboard 3. USB Mouse We will release more stable feature enriched version in near future. The source code and build instructions are available at: http://coredruids.org/ http://coredruids.org/?page_id=77 We appreciate your joining our open source initiative, reviewing our work and sharing your knowledge experiences with us. Google groups : coredru...@googlegroups.com Source code repositories : http://gitorious.org/~coredruidshttp://gitorious.org/%7Ecoredruids(Android Enablement) Follow us on twitter : http://twitter.com/coredruids Thanks CoreDruids Team If someone wants to try and/or help one of these projects to support a Freerunner type touchscreen, that can be done with the new Openmoko Beagle Hybrid board approach. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
